On 6/6/2021 12:37 PM, dan wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 10:40:39 -0700, Bob F wrote:
What is your set cutoff pressure? Higher than 52? That would suggest the
pump is the problem. Otherwise, the pressure switch is not working
right. Take off the cover and see what it does.

The pressure switch has printing inside the cap saying it's 30 to 50psi.
The bladder is only at about 20 psi now (slowly dropping as I use a tester).
It doesn't seem to matter how long the pump runs - it tops out at 52psi.

The pipe to the switch to the pump carries water pressure to the switch
to active it.

It's critical for me to figure out if water or air is supposed to be in that
pipe that comes from the top of the pump and goes to the bottom of the
pressure switch.

If it's air, then that's the problem as I can feel the hissing.
But if it's supposed to be water - then there's a different problem.

If there is air coming out of it, that would be surprising
to me unless there is significant air leaking into the input side of the
pump to mix into the water being pumped. Any leak on it could affect the
switch sensing, but I would also expect it to leak water when the pump
is off, unless there is a check valve between the pump and the tank.

Now that I swapped the two 1 inch plugs there's no longer any water leak.
But the air leak exists and the pump doesn't shut off.

If
there is a closed valve or other restriction near the pump on that pipe
that only allows very small flow, the air leak could be lowering the
pressure seen at the switch.

The water valves to and away from the pump are open (save for the emergency
bypass water valve which is closed).


The hissing could be coming from an air bleed valve on the pipe from
pump the tank if there is air leakage on the input lines. Otherwise,
find and fix the leak to see if that is causing the problem.

Easier said than done.
It's an inch from the concrete in a maze of pipes.

The most important thing is to find out whether the pressure switch uses air
or water because if it's water something else must be wrong.

The gray cap says the switch is a "Pumptrol, SquareD, control circuit A600,
Type FSG-2, Form U, class 9013, Ser B, On 30, off 50" is all I know.

The first thing I'd look at is the pressure switch.

I agree. The pump isn't getting the signal to turn off.
It is getting a signal to turn on though.

It is in the "ON" mode (closed contacts). When it gets to the cutoff
pressure it is supposed to open the contacts to stop power from getting
to the pump. It is not a "signal", it is power on or off. If the switch
is in the ON position (contacts closed - touching their "mate", the pump
will run. If it is not, it will not run

If the switch looks good, and turns on/off when you move the plate under
the spring, try adjusting the pressure to a lower cutoff pressure.
Instructions are in the cover. Just remember how far you turn it, so
you can put it back at the original setting if needed. You could adjust
it with the pump running and you would quickly know that the change
worked. But, there is power on those switch contacts so be very careful
and maybe even wear rubber gloves.

Also, try operating the switch when the pressure is at your high value.
it should flip to the off position much easier than it did at no
pressure. That says - adjust the pressure lower. If it does not get
easier, that says pressure is not getting to the switch mechanism.

If you start with the pressure drained, watch the plate at the bottom of
the spring as the pressure builds. You should see it slowly move. If
not, the switch is dead or the pressure it not getting to it.




Turn off the power.
Most of the ones I've used have a little nut at the top. Remove that and
lift the top off, to inspect the mechanism and contacts.

It's this one I'm pretty sure.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...21BP/100183740

Look for two
contacts welded together. You can usually operate the switch mechanism
by pushing down or lifting up on the little metal plate the the bottom
of the big spring pushes against. The contacts should close when you
push down, and open when you lift up on that plate.

They all seem to work when I tested them with the power on using a
screwdriver to push. I think it's the air leaking.

I need to find out if air or water is supposed to be in that pipe.

A water pump should not be pumping air. Do you get bubbles coming out of
the taps regularly? Do you get a blast of air when you drain the water
from the system? You could try running a hose from a valve that taps off
it before the tank (that would divert air) into a bucket of water. Do
you see bubbles? If you see air in the pumped water, you likely have a
leak in the pipes before the pump somewhere you need to fix. Run the
hose into an full inverted glass jug in the bucket, and you can actually
see how fast air is coming out.

Air would also likely fill the pressure tank, and gradually reduce it's
water capacity over time. That should show when you drain the tank.
(Blasts as the water runs out)

Older pumps with non-bladder tanks used to have a system that would suck
a little air in through the input line that would get pumped into he
tank to make up for air that gets dissolved into the water and pumped
away. If your system used to be one of those, that could be where the
air is coming from. The water outlet from the pump, and the pressure
valve and pressure switch are usually at the top, and the pipe to the
switch could be right where that air collects. Air is less likely to
plug the pressure switch inlet tube, so they might have chosen the high
spot on the pump to supply the switch.

Which brings to mind - if the pressure switch otherwise operates
properly (turn on/off as you manipulate it), you could have rust or crud
plugging up the tubes or inlet of that switch.