In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Feb 2021 06:00:15 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, February 19, 2021 at 6:23:08 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 05:52:51 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 11:50:33 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:56:45 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

I doubt that anybody getting a degree in 4th Century Greek sculpture
could hack it at trade or technical school. Those disciplines require
aptitude.

Now, don't get me started on how useless most young people are because
they've spent their whole lives twiddling cell phone buttons or going to
"maker academy" where nothing has to be kludged together.



Yes, today the young people do not seem to be able to do simple repair
things around the house.
That is only because they never had a chance to be taught. "Shop"
disappeared from middle and high school in the 70s (probably because
educators didn't know which end of a hammer you hold) and we are
seeing the fallout now. Latinos are kicking our ass in the trades.

Funny, do they teach shop in Mexico and Honduras schools? Do Latinos
here go to different schools that do teach shop? The whole claims is wrong,
at least here in NJ. The schools district here has vocational schools that
teach trades like auto repair, HVAC, electrical, and yes, carpentry. That's
way more than just shop from 50 years ago. If FL hasn't kept up, maybe
that's because your state is too cheap, doesn't care and prefers low taxes.

They learn trades the old fashioned way, Their dad, uncle, brother
teaches them.
You are talking about a dedicated VoTec, not a regular school.
We have VoTecs but they are not pushed by the school system.

It's not a dedictaed VoTec, it's part of our HS system. The issue was preparing
public school students for trade type jobs. You claimed that HS had
eliminated shop, so students can't learn skill like using a hammer.
I simply pointed out that it's actually gone the opposite way, that HS
students here have courses of study that teach HVAC, auto repair,
electrical trades, etc. School systems shouldn't be pushing anything.
They should and do help students assess their aptitudes, their abilities
and help guide them to career possibilities where they can succeed.

For what it's worth, my mother went to Emmerich Manual Training High
School in Indianapolis, a public high school, and graduated in 1926,
She went there not for manual traing but because it was the closest high
school, but its purpose was "To provide training in such fields as
mechanics, drafting, and the domestic arts" and I believe it drew from
the whole city. It opened in 1895, originally called the Industrial
Training School.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmeri...al_High_School

Charles E. Emmerich retired having developed the program into one copied
by many other schools throughout the country.

https://historicindianapolis.com/ind...g-high-school/



If
you don't speak a little Spanish you can't be a job super or a
contractor these days. I was helped being an inspector because I took
a Spanish class and I made the extra effort to expand that "do you
have a telephone" stuff into the terms used in construction.

That's true, but I suspect it has a lot more to do with Americans having
become lazy and unwilling to do hard manual labor. And even those that
will, most have half the productivity of immigrants. I have a friend who
builds golf courses and that has been his experience. You don't need
shop to know how to use a shovel.

Generally speaking based on our experience in construction, Mexicans
were masons and concrete, Guatemalans were manual labor (shovel guys),
Tile guys tended to be South American, Brazil or Colombia.
Cubans were electricians.
That started changing in the last 15 or 20 years and now you see a lot
of Mexican electricians. They really go fast, turning a plodding along
"union" job into an assembly line operation.
I suppose it is just a matter of time before they take over plumbing
and HVAC.
Right now those guys still seem to be old rednecks. There isn't much
acceptance of Latinos, either on the job or in the supply house.
The supply house is a real choke point because they get real picky
about who they will sell to and if you have to go to Home Depot or
other retail places, it is hard to be competitive with your price.
HVAC is the worst. Just go over to the HVAC newsgroup and ask a home
owner question. They will flame you out.

Since I do most of my own repairs, I haven't had a lot of experience with
all of that. But I think your observation about the HVAC guys is probably
right. I had not really thought about it, but from what I recall seeing in
the neighborhood, I don't see what you see with landscapers or roofers.
Same with electricians here.