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trader_4 trader_4 is offline
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Default iPhone code cracked

On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 11:43:21 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Just looking for clarification:

You said "Apple has cooperated with numerous law enforcement many
times before."

and then you said:

"I think the FBI said in it's filing..."


"I never had heard stories about any of those..."

So are you saying that Apple *has* helped or that you *think* Apple
has helped?

(I don't know the answer, so I'm just asking)

I'm saying that the govt said in it's court filing that Apple has
cooperated with them in the past, I think it was dozens of times.
And that Apple itself has said that it has cooperated with law
enforcement many times to get data out of iPhones. And that prior
to this spat, none of that got much attention, if any, in the
media. It's the first I ever heard about it. Sounds like you
didn'tsee it reported in the media prior to this either.

That would have started a crap storm from customers and the media alike.

The only way around that - and it's not a great solution - would have
been for them to publicly announce that "for the safety of humankind,
we are going to help the FBI find every one of the *******s that were
involved in this horrendous act".

It still wouldn't have been pretty, but it would have been better than
having it leaked that they did it "quietly".

Apple was - and still is - between a brick (pun intended) and a hard place.

Help the FBI and lose all credibility when it comes to saying that they care
about protecting their customer's data or (as has now happened) have the
world find out that their phones aren't quite as secure as they led us all
to believe.

I don't see that at all. Apple cooperating with a legitimate search
warrant in a high profile terrorist case doesn't equate with not caring
about protecting their other customers, who are legal, not criminals,

You don't see it that way, but don't you think that many others on various
sides of the issue will say things like "I can't trust Apple any more" or
"Apple is now part of the Big Brother family", etc. How that might impact
their image is unknown, but they probably didn't want to take that chance..

So, instead, everyone found out that Apple had been quietly cooperating
in the past. And now everyone just found out that the very thing that
Apple said would happen, ie that all the iPhones in the world would
be compromised, has happened, assuming you believed Apple to begin with.
Tim Cook said that if Apple did anything with that one phone and kept
whatever they did to themselves, it would forever compromise all the
iPhones out there, their customers, etc. So, instead, far worse has
happened. The phone has been unlocked and instead of it happening in
a secure Apple lab, we have no idea where it happened, who did it, etc.
Could be a hacker in Romania that did it. And could be others coming
who took up the challenge, are not far behind, not white knights too.
Seems far preferable for everyone if Apple had just cooperated quietly
like they had in the past.

You'd have to be a fool to think that Apple can't get around
almost anything they put into their phones in one way or another.
Everyone knows that.

I ain't no fool. ;-)

So, I don't see the problem with Apple saying
sure, we recognize the legitimate need of law enforcement, pursuant
to a search warrant, to get into locked products and we will help
them. THAT in fact has been there policy, until apparently Tim Cook
decided to make a big spectacle and grandstand.

Again, is that actually the case? I can't tell from the wording of your
first paragraph. (I'm not being lazy - or maybe I am - but I don't have
the time to research that right now, so I'm trusting that you'll let me
know that Apple has actually unlocked phones in the spirit of justice.

"But in a similar case in New York last year, Apple acknowledged that it could extract such data if it wanted to. And according to prosecutors in that case, Apple has unlocked phones for authorities at least 70 times since 2008. (Apple doesn't dispute this figure.)"

Those are what came up quickly with Google. That's from a similar case in
NY, so I guess that's where the govt made the claim, cited the numbers,
not specifically in the SB filing.

If they've done it in the past, why are they pushing back so hard now?

That's what inquiring minds would like to know. What Cook claims is
that because this instance requires them to make some modifications
to the software, that it will have implications that those 70 other
assistances didn't. If the FBI was to get the new code, there would
be merit to that argument. But since the govt offered to let Apple
remain in control of it, IMO it's BS.

The next question is this: Did someone within Apple know about the
vulnerability that was exploited by the person who helped the FBI? If so,
how high up did that knowledge go?

Apple won't be able to know, because as you pointed out, the FBI
isn't going to tell them who helped them, how it was done, etc.

I'm guessing that they already know. As you said, they know how to get
around anything they've put into their phones, so they must know all of
the hacks. I'm sure the specifics of this case will get out, maybe only
at the highest levels and behind closed doors, but nothing stays hidden
any more.

Typically developers don't know all the possible ways of getting around
what they create. That's why MSFT for example has to keep issuing
security updates almost every week. So, Apple won't know for sure
exactly how it was done, unless someone tells them. OMG, all those
Apple customers who are so worried about their security better
throw the phones away.