Tekkie can teach you how to snip?

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Christopher A. Young
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wrote in message ...
On Sunday, July 7, 2013 6:32:16 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Ashton Crusher wrote:

On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 14:57:16 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03

wrote:



Ashton Crusher wrote:

On Tue, 2 Jul 2013 01:54:07 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03

wrote:



Ashton Crusher wrote:



wrote:



Ashton Crusher wrote:



...Major Snippage Occurred...





I've never said that. Why do you assume it was deliberate?



Because of the facts stated over and over by Don.





Noting Don said indicates the final mistake was deliberate.



Ashton,



Have you actually read all of what Don has said? This is not the first time

that we (including Don) have had to point out the things that Don has said,

since you keep claiming he didn't say them.



Very, very early in this thread I said to Don:



"It seems wierd that you pointed pointed out the property line and they

still encroached upon your property, apparently without any further

discussion. How did the property line discussion go when you brought it

up?"



To which he replied:



?I brought it up with the workmen. They did not disagree. But the reason

they were first trying to put is 2 3/4" over is to get all of the wood on

my side of the telephone pole. The reason they didn't put it fully on their

property, is they wanted to get all of the heading piece on my side of the

Engineering HumorHumor Section:

On this page:
Engineering Terminology
Top Ten Reasons To Date an Engineer
Top Ten Reasons NOT to Date an Engineer
You Might Be An Engineer If...
Joke


"For an optimist the glass is half full, for a pessimist it's half empty, and
for an engineer is twice bigger than necessary." Engineering

Terminology
What is said / What it means
A number of different approaches are being tried./We don't know where we're going, but we're moving.
An extensive report is being prepared on a fresh approach to the problem./We just hired three guys... We'll let them kick it around for a while.
Developped after years of intensive research./It was discovered by accident.
Modifications are underway to correct certain minor difficulties./We threw
the whole thing out and are starting from scratch.
Preliminary operational tests were inconclusive./The darn thing blew up
when we threw the switch.
Test results were extremely gratifying./It works, and boy are we surprised !
The design will be finalized in the next reporting period./We haven't
started this job yet, but we've got to say something.
The entire concept is unworkable./The only guy who understood the thing
just quit.
We need close project coordination./We should have asked someone else.
Alternate: Let's spread the responsibility for this.


"Clothes are the lowest priority for an engineer, assuming the basic
thresholds for temperature and decency have been satisfied. If no appendages
are freezing or sticking together, and if no genitalia or mammary glands are
swinging around in plain view, then the objective of clothing has been met.
Anything else is a waste."

Top Ten Reasons To Date an Engineer
The world does
revolve around us... We pick the coordinate system.
Find out what those other buttons on your calculator do.
We know how to handle stress and strain in our relationships.
Parents will approve.
Help with your math homework.
Can calculate head pressure.
Looks good on a resume.
Free body diagrams.
High starting salary.
Extremely good looking


"You can't spell Geek without EE."
Top Ten Reasons NOT to Date an
EngineerT-shirt and jeans are their formal dress.
Hot dog and a six-pack is their seven-course meal.
The only social life known of is to post and talk on the net.
Flames like a monster and speaks like a pussycat.
Works from 6:30am to 7:30pm daily.
No morning kisses and no evening walks.
No matter how hard you cry and how loud you yell, he just sits there calmly
discussing your emotion in terms of mathematical logic.
Only listens to classic rock. Hates everything from Bach to Prince.
Touches his car more often than you.
Talks in acronyms.
Can't leave that damn pencil off his ear for a minute.
Will file a divorce if you call him in the middle of debugging.


From the back page of the Engineering Weekly ("Ingenioren," a weekly paper for
Danish engineers) on May 19th, 1995.


"Q: What is the difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers ?
A: Mechanical Engineers build weapons, Civil Engineers build targets."

You Might
Be An Engineer If...You have no life - and you can PROVE it mathematically.
You enjoy pain.
You know vector calculus but you can't remember how to do long division.
You chuckle whenever anyone says "centrifugal force".
You've actually used every single function on your graphing calculator.
It is sunny and 70 degrees outside, and you are working on a computer.
You frequently whistle the theme song to "MacGyver".
You know how to integrate a chicken and can take the derivative of water.
You think in "math".
You've calculated that the World Series actually diverges.
You hesitate to look at something because you don't want to break down its
wave function.
You have a pet named after a scientist.
You laugh at jokes about mathematicians.
The Humane society has you arrested because you actually performed the
Schrodinger's Cat experiment.
You can translate English into Binary.
You can't remember what's behind the door in the engineering building which
says "Exit".
You have to bring a jacket with you, in the middle of summer, because there's
a wind-chill factor in the lab.
You are completely addicted to caffeine.
You avoid doing anything because you don't want to contribute to the eventual
heat-death of the universe.
You consider ANY non-engineering course "easy".
When your professor asks you where your homework is, you claim to have
accidentally determined its momentum so precisely, that according to
Heisenberg it could be anywhere in the universe.
The "fun" center of your brain has deteriorated from lack of use.
You'll assume that a "horse" is a "sphere" in order to make the math easier.
The blinking 12:00 on someone's VCR draws you in like a tractor beam to fix
it.
You bring a computer manual / technical journal as vacation reading.
The salesperson at Circuit City can't answer any of your questions.
You can't help eavesdropping in computer stores... and correcting the
salesperson.
You're in line for the guillotine... it stops working properly... and you
offer to fix it.
You go on the rides at Disneyland and sit backwards to see how they do the
special effects.
You have any "Dilbert" comics displayed in your work area.
You have a habit of destroying things in order to see how they work.
You have never backed up your hard drive.
You haven't bought any new underwear or socks for yourself since you got
married.
You spent more on your calculator than on your wedding ring.
You think that when people around you yawn, it's because they didn't get
enough sleep.
You would rather get more dots per inch than miles per gallon
You've ever calculated how much you make per second.
Your favorite James Bond character is "Q," the guy who makes the gadgets.
You understood more than five of these jokes.
You make a copy of this list, and post it on your door (or your home page !)


"Boring: See Engineers." —
From the Yellow Pages.
JokeA man was crossing a
road one day when a frog called out to him and said: "If you kiss me, I'll turn
into a beautiful princess".
He bent over, picked up the frog and put it in his pocket. The frog spoke up
again and said: "If you kiss me and turn me back into a beautiful princess, I
will stay with you for one week."
The man took the frog out of his pocket, smiled at it and returned it to the
pocket. The frog then cried out: "If you kiss me and turn me back into a
princess, I'll stay with you and do ANYTHING you want".
Again the man took the
frog out, smiled at it and put it back into his pocket.
Finally, the frog asked: "What is the matter ? I've told you I'm a beautiful
princess, that I'll stay with you for a week and do anything you want. Why won't
you kiss me ?"
The man said, "Look I'm a software engineer. I don't have time for a girlfriend,
but a talking frog is cool."



YOU'RE PROBABLY AN ENGINEER...
If you introduce your wife as -

If your spouse sends you an e-mail instead of calling you to dinner

If you can quote scenes from any Monty Python movie

If you want an 24X CD-ROM drive for Christmas

If Dilbert is your hero

If you stare at an orange juice container because it says CONCENTRATE

If you can name 6 Star Trek episodes

If the only jokes you receive are through e-mail

If your wris****ch has more computing power than a 486DX-50

If your idea of good interpersonal communication means getting the decimal point in the right place

If you look forward to Christmas only to put together the kids' toys

If you use a CAD package to design your son's Pine Wood Derby car

If you've used coathangers and duct tape for something other than hanging coats and taping ducts

If, at Christmas, it goes without saying that you will be the one to find the burnt-out bulb in the string

If you window shop at Radio Shack

If your ideal evening consists of fast-forwarding through the latest sci-fi movie looking for technical inaccuracies

If you have -Dilbert- comics displayed anywhere in your work area

If you carry on a one-hour debate over the expected results of a test that actually takes five minutes to run

If you're convinced you can build a phaser out of your garage door opener and your camera's flash attachment

If you don't even know where the cover to your personal computer is

If you've modified your can opener to be microprocessor driven

If you know the direction the water swirls when you flush

If you own -Official Star Trek- anything

If you've ever taken the back off your TV just to see what's inside

If a team of you and your co-workers have set out to modify the antenna on the radio in your work area for better reception

If you thought the concoction ET used to phone home was stupid

If you ever burned down the gymnasium with your Science Fair project

If you're currently gathering the components to build your own nuclear reactor

If you own one or more short-sleeve dress shirts

If you've never backed-up your hard drive

If you're aware that computers are actually only good for playing games, but are afraid to say it out loud

If you truly believe aliens are living among us

If you've ever saved the power cord from a broken appliance

If you've ever purchased an electronic appliance -as-is-

If you see a good design and still have to change it

If the salespeople at Circuit City can't answer any of your questions

If you still own a slide rule and you know how to work it

If the thought that a CD could refer to finance and music never enters your mind

If you own a set of itty-bitty screwdrivers, but you don't remember where they are

If you rotate your screen savers more frequently than your automobile tires

If you have a functioning home copier machine, but every toaster you own turns bread into charcoal

If you have more toys than your kids

If you need a checklist to turn on the TV

If you've introduced your kids by the wrong name

If your wife thinks your taste in ties is bizarre

If you have a habit of destroying things in order to see how they work

If your IQ is bigger than your weight

If the microphone or visual aids at a meeting don't work and you rush up to the front to fix it

If you can remember 7 computer passwords but not your anniversary

If you've memorized the program schedule for the Discovery channel and have seen most of the shows already

If you've ever owned a calculator with no equal key and know what RPN stands for

If your father sat 2 inches in front of your family's first color TV with a magnifying lens to see how they made the colors, and you grew up thinking that was normal

If you know how to take the cover off of your computer, and what size screwdriver to use

If you can type 70 words a minute but can't read your own handwriting

If people groan at the party when you pick out the music

If you can't remember where you parked your car for the 3rd time this week

If people hound you for pocket protectors at Halloween time

If you did the sound system for your senior prom

If your checkbook always balances

If your girlfriend says the way you dress is no reflection on her

If your wris****ch has more buttons than a telephone

If you have more friends on the Internet than in real life

If you thought the real heroes of -Apollo 13- were the mission controllers

If you think your computer looks better without the cover

If you think that when people around you yawn, its because they didn't get
enough sleep

If your wife hasn't the foggiest idea what you do at work

If you spend more on your home computer than your car

If you know what http:// stands for

If you've ever tried to repair a $5 radio

If you have a neatly sorted collection of old bolts and nuts in your garage

If your favorite part of the 6 o clock news is comparing their latest satellite weather picture with yours

If your three-year-old son asks why the sky is blue and you try to explain atmospheric absorption theory

If your lap-top computer costs more than your car

If your 4 basic food groups a 1. Caffeine 2. Fat 3. Sugar 4.Chocolate

If you read all of this.

Subject: Cold Enough For You?
Date: Monday, January 26, 2004 10:21 AM

60 deg F: Southern Californians shiver uncontrollably.
People in New England sunbathe. Survivalists continue to split wood.

50 deg F: New Yorkers try to turn on the heat.
People in New England plant gardens.

40 deg F: Italian & English cars won't start.
People in New England drive with the windows down.
Survivalists go buy a couple more bottles of propane.

32 deg F: Distilled water freezes. The water at
Moosehead Lake in Maine starts getting cooler.

20 deg F: Floridians don coats, thermal underwear, gloves, wool hats.
People in New England throw on a flannel shirt, buttons open.

15 deg F: New York City landlords finally turn up the heat.
People in New England have the last cookout before it gets cold.

0 deg F: All the people in Miami die . New Englanders close the windows.
Survivalists light a fire in the fireplace, and put some more fuel in
the heater.

10 below zero: Californians escape en masse to Mexico.
Girl Scouts in New England sell cookies door to door.
Survivalists continue to post on Usenet.

25 below zero: Las Vegas disintegrates.
People in New England rummage around the attic to find some winter
coats.
Survivalists get out their snowblowers.

40 below zero: Washington DC runs out of hot air.
People in New England let the dogs sleep indoors.
Survivalistst put on another blanket on the bed.

100 below zero: Santa Claus abandons the North Pole. Some New
Englanders are frustrated when they can't start their "kahs".
Survivalists enjoy a big pot of chili on the stove.

460 below zero (absolute zero on the Kelvin Scale): All atomic motion stops.
People in New England start saying . . "Cold 'nuff for ya?"
Canadians let their dogs sleep indoors for one night.

500 deg below zero: Hell freezes over. Red Sox win World Series.
________________


pole.?



2 3/4? would have placed the entire fence on his property, 1.5? placed only

part of the poles on his property and allowed the top to clear the pole.

That was actually the 2nd time very early in the thread that Don noted that

the workman put the fence on his property in order to get the top on Don's

side of the pole.



Many of us have mentioned, numerous times, that the placement of the fence

was *not* a mistake, at least according to Don. If you'll go back and

actually read some of the things that Don said, perhaps you'll see that the

argument that a judge may not simply say "It's only 1.5", live with it."

Perhaps you'll see that by doing that he would be allowing the neighbor, by

way of the contractor, to decide what he can do to some other person's

property.



Since the placement of the fence on Don's property was deliberate, perhaps

you should restate your argument. You don't have to change what you think a

judge might do if you don't want to, but at least form your opinion by

using the correct facts: the fence was deliberately placed on Don's

property for the sole purpose of having the top clear the pole.





Thanks for pointing out that info. I do recall reading it and it goes

back to what I said before about the difference between what people

"said" versus what people "thought was said" and how that can be an

issue in court. Don may well have thought they understood that he was

objecting to ANY of it being on his property. But the

workman/contractor may have thought that while he objected to the

entire thing being on his property to facilitate the pole problem that

he was ok with part of the posts being on his property if that would

make things work out OK relative to the pole. Surely I'm not the only

person to have ever had a conversation with someone and left being

sure we both understand what was to be done only to find out later

that "I thought you meant....."



Hmm... I don't see anything in your response related to the arguments you

keep making about the placement being a mistake and how a judge would rule.



Regardless if it was all or partial, the placement can no longer be

considered a mistake. Wasn't a lot of your argument about how a judge would

rule (in this case) based almost entirely on the fact that the placement

was a mistake?



When you made your statements about how a judge would rule, you often said

things like:



"Noting (sic) Don said indicates the final mistake was deliberate"



It has now been pointed out with complete certainty (assuming that Don is

telling the truth) that there was no mistake and that there was an actual

reason (the pole) and thus a conscious decision made by the contractor or

architect or fence owner (hereafter known as the "fence party") as to

where to place the fence.



I am now curious as to how that changes your argument as to how a judge

would rule. Based on the deliberateness of the fence party's actions, do

you still feel that a judge would allow the fence to remain, essentially

allowing the fence party to deliberately encroach upon Don's property?



I guess you didn't understand what I posted. Yes, Don feels he made

himself clear i.e. Don't put it on my property. But is that what was

"heard"? Does he have it in writing? Did he tell the OWNER, not just

the owners agent. I'm not saying my position is necessarily "fair"

from Don's point of view, just what might well happen in court when

there is nothing but -he said, she said- testimony. The judge wasn't

there, he can only make his decision based on what the plaintiff and

defendant tell him combined with any actual facts (surveys,

photographs, contract documents, actual impact) that can be

introduced.



I agree with you that my characterization of Don's original statement

was wrong, However, unless the contractor testifies in court that he

put it there knowing it was against the explicit demands of Don not to

it won't change the likelihood of what will happen in court . So I

don't agree that we know the mistake was deliberate, it could have

been a misunderstanding. It's also a safe bet that if it goes to

court, and Don has nothing signed on paper, or a tape recording of teh

conversation, the contractor will probably have a bad memory of

exactly what was said. Heck, teh contractor could turn the fact that

there was a conversation against Don. Had their been no conversation

there could have been no agreement with Don as to where the fence

might go. Absent such conversation the logical starting point would

be that it shouldn't go on Don's property. However, once Don and teh

contractor agree that there was a conversation it opens the door to

there having been a agreement for it being placed somewhere other then

all on the other owners property. The admission of the conversation

without any documentation of what was agreed to could weaken Don's

case, not strengthen it. Now if there were not only ONE contractors

person in teh conversation but a second one, and still only Don for

his side, you would wind up in court with two people from the

contractors saying "Don said it was OK to put the posts half on his

side." This is why going to court is a last resort and a crap shoot.



Take a deep breath before reading the next sentence because it's a long

one...



So, IYHO, if Homeowner A says to Homeowner B's contractor, within earshot

of a co-worker of said contractor, "Please make sure that you do not

install that fence on my side of the line", but does not obtain a signed

document from the contractor attesting to what was said, and the contractor

and said co-worker in fact do install the fence on Homeowner A's property,

the judge may take the word of the contractor and his crew over the word of

Homeowner A, whose property was encroached upon.



If that was actually the case, then I guess any contractor could do

whatever they wanted and then lie to the judge about having a conversation.

What's the difference between the contractor and crew lying about what was

said in an conversation that actually happened vs. simply making up a

conversation that never occurred? As long as the homeowner can't prove that

he never had the conversation, he would lose right?


I agree with your point here. The one irrefutable fact is that
there is a 20 ft fence built on land that the owner of the land
says:

A: He did not authorize it

B: He saw they were going to build the fence on his property and
told them not to.

C: There was a clear boundary line, no dispute as to where it was

D: The fence got built on the property anyway.

All the rest is at best he said, she said. Very easy for a judge
to just cut through all that crap, if it's even raised and tell them to move the 20 ft fence. Ashton is going on like having to move that stupid little
fence is some great burden on those that put it there. It's a little
20ft fence built on the wrong property.




IMHO, if there was a case of Homeowner A said-Homeowner B's contractor

said, and Homeowner A was the one whose property was encroached upon by

Homeowner B's contractor, the judge will side with Homeowner A. To side

with the contractor puts us into the realm of allowing the taking of

someone else's property with nothing more than the contractor saying "Your

Honor, he said I could. Ask my partner, he'll back me up."



Ahmen to that brother. In Ashton's world, a neigbor can put up
a fence on your property, despite being told not to and then somehow
it's up to you to prove
that you really, really needed that property, to get it back.
To prove that it's
a hardship on you to lose a bit of your property. I think
you and I agree courts don't like to reward bad behavior. If they
OK this, then why wouldn't the next shyster neighbor or contractor
pull the same thing, only worse?