On 03/28/2012 10:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In web.com,
says...

On 03/28/2012 07:42 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In raweb.com,
says...

On 03/28/2012 07:13 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
In aweb.com,
says...

On 03/27/2012 09:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Cool, Doug. What's your setup? Got battery backup so you stay online
when the rest of the block is out?

No, it's a grid tied system - SolarCity. The grid is our storage
device, in fact when the grid goes down, so does our system. Wouldn't
want to be pumping juice into the grid while the repair guys were trying
to get things fixed! Might make their hair look like Guy Fieri. The
inverter shuts off when the sun or the grid goes down.

So have a transfer switch that disconnects from the grid when the grid
goes down. I wouldn't pay a dime for a solar system that still had me
completely dependent on the electric company.

Then you would require a battery system to buffer variable instaneous
generation from a constant load. There is night and clouds etc that
keep a non battery system from producing constant power. I don't think
my gar^H^H^Hshop is big enough to hold the batteries, let alone my
wallet big enough to buy them.

Why do you need to produce this constant high power? Power here was out
for more than a week last year. Not just in my house, in most of the
state and the neighboring state. Would have been nice to be able to run
the heat and the refrigerator for a few hours a day so the pipes didn't
freeze and the food didn't spoil. Why would you need all these
batteries you talk about to do that?

And your wallet was big enough to buy this solar system you're bragging
about so why would batteries be an issue?

You would also have to get approval from the power utility, city and
Solar equipment provider.

You needed all those "approvals" to install the thing in the first place
so why is this an issue all of a sudden?

Well, J

I didn't spend any big bucks for the system, it was installed for zero.
All I pay is a monthly lease.

Oh, I see, you got something for nothing. Sounds to me like you got
what you paid for.

Also, unless a solar system can produce somewhat of a constant power
(which it can't without some storage system), your power level will be
totally variable depending on light level, cloud cover, etc. Do you
currently live with constant brownouts and power losses?

Grok the concept. The scenario is that the grid is DOWN. When the grid
is DOWN, "constant brownouts" is better than nothing, and there's been a
power loss already.

And I also inquired about a transfer switch and was educated as to why
it would be a fools errand without a storage system. After some
thought, I determined the experts were correct. You might want to think
about it before you espouse yourself as an expert. The best storage
system is the grid or batteries.

That's fine when the grid is up. But the scenario is that it is not up.
Did you ask your experts why it was "a fool's errand" to want to run the
refrigerator and the heat when the grid was down? Sounds to me like
they didn't know how to set that up and talked gullible you into
believing that it was a good idea to just freeze to death in the dark
with all this fancy solar power equipment doing absolutely nothing
useful in the event that the grid goes down.

The grid costs only taxes and fees -
about $19/month.

It doesn't matter if it costs 19 dollars a month or pays you a trillion
dollars a second, if it's not up it does you no good at all. And you
have all this fancy expensive solar crap and your food still spoils and
your pipes still freeze.

The objective here is not to live off-grid, the objective here is to
provide a minimal level of power when the grid fails.

A battery storage system for 40 kWh/day costs are
prohibitive for costs, space and maintenance.

Why do you need 40 kWh/day to run the refrigerator and the heat?

The powers that be did allow the installation of a system that works,
not one that you would like to believe that works.

By your own admission it doesn't work when the grid goes down, so they
did not "allow the installation of a system that works" when the grid is
down.

Take up your suggestions with someone who knows WTF their talking about.

Ask your so-called experts what good your fancy system does when the
grid is down for a week.


In the 20 years I've lived in the AZ desert, the grid has never been
down for more than 20 minutes. I can live with that.

The purpose of the system is to save money, which it has every month
since it's been installed. It will only save more as time goes on and
the utility rates increase since it has provided more power than I take
from the grid. So yes, I am getting something for nothing - well not
nothing, I'm getting it from the sun.

I'm sure it wouldn't do you any good though as your knowledge in these
matters far exceeds that of the so called experts.


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill