In article , justalurker justalurker wrote:
On Jul 8, 1:14=A0pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , justalurker justalurker wrote:



On Jul 8, 12:08=3DA0pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article =
ps.=3D
com, justalurker justalurker wrote:
Softening water by definition is removing the material in the water
that causes it to be hard.

Would you agree that IF a method exists by which calcium and magnesium ions
could be prevented from forming insoluble compounds such as the carbonates and
stearates that form "soap scum", that method could be said to have softened
the water?

If not, then I think you've restricted the "definition" to exclude any methods
other than the ones that you are sure are the only ones that work.

No reputable third party chemist or physicist has, to my knowledge,

I would suggest that perhaps your knowledge is incomplete; Google on "water
softening by chelation". You may be surprised at what you learn.

released a detailed study of the "conditioning" process in actual use
in a residential installation where the "conditioned" water has
provided ANY, let alone ALL, of the positive effects that soft water
provides.

As applies to the electronic or magnetic water "conditioners" that serve
mainly to separate the consumer from his money, I certainly agree with you.
But do you understand what chelation is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelation

Please note the phrase about half-way down the page, under Applications:
"Chelators are used in chemical analysis, as water softeners, ..."

When that happens I'll be interested in reading those studies but,
even then, water "conditioning" is not softening water and Merlin
never figured out how to turn lead into gold.

Look, I'm not saying that the NuvoH2O works. I'm just saying that the method
by which they _claim_ it works is (a) radically different from the methods
claimed by other vendors of saltless water "conditioners", and (b) from the
standpoint of one who's had some college training in chemistry, is at least
superficially plausible.

I didn't create the definition... look to the WQA =A0 wqa.org

[Complete lack of response to any of the other points I raised is noted.]

If the WQA has a definition of water softening on their web site, it's not
immediately obvious. Care to provide a link?

Correction... my previous post SHOULD have said "soft water is less
than 1 grain per gallon hardness"

That's *not* the same as "by definition ... removing the material in the water
that causes it to be hard". So it seems that you did, in fact, invent a
definition of softening that necessarily excludes all methods except the ones
that you are willing to admit will work.

There's no immediately obvious reason why chelation would not work to soften
water, and in fact several immediately obvious reasons why it *could*. I
suggest you educate yourself on the subject; I've already provided you at
least one link.