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Old April 21st 08, 02:29 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Ed Huntress Ed Huntress is offline
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Default $4 dollar gas and its effects on metalworking

"Citizen Jimserac" wrote in message
On Apr 20, 10:53 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"CitizenJimserac" wrote in message


On Apr 17, 10:18 am, Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 06:09:54 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

The young generally didnt give a **** about anything other than
bytes with zip data backing those sound bytes up.

Meism and Nowism along with Cliche politics is more their forte.


Well, yes - agree. They have largely given up, they have seen their
elders engage in endless vituperative debate, and nothing happens
except things get worse..why should they give a rats arse about the
dinosaurs, thrashing around, making lots of noise, but basically
nothing except blaming "someone else", can opening themselves,
listening to sound bites, me too isms - desperately hoping, without
any real conviction, that someone will offer hope and inspiration,
just more lies and broken promises.........

$4 gas is the least of our problems.....

Given up? The little skulls filled with mush never started. They were
educated to be leftards..which took too much effort so they have
simply become semimoble couch potatos who bow to the latest fashion
trends which make them all look the same, with little incentive to do
anything other than ****, get drunk and have a ready supply of
ringtones to download.


And here we see a rare agreement between my views and Gunner's.
BOTH liberals and the right were
involved in the deceptive "re-engineering"
of our educational system over a period of
decades starting over 100 years ago.

Real education, it was decided,
was for the elite classes and
what was needed was a system
of "socialization" and indoctrination
to produce happy non-thinking
obedient worker drones
and cannon fodder for the military.

The logical problem with this kind of claim is that the people making it,
including Gunner and, perhaps, you, are all products of this
educational system." Presumably you then are either a happy non-thinking
obedient worker drone, or cannon fodder.

It's clear that most people are aware of what the problems are;
about education are nearly universal, so it's safe to say that nearly
everyone else recognizes the same things that you do. Maybe education
hurt them none; they can read the writing on the wall. Somehow, they've
escaped the grand conspiracy to turn them into mindless drones.

Ed Huntress

"Spare yourself the anxiety of thinking of this
school thing as a conspiracy, even though the
project is indeed riddled with petty conspirators.
It was and is a fully rational transaction in which
all of us play a part. We trade the liberty of our
kids and our free will for a secure social order
and a very prosperous economy. It's a bargain
in which most of us agree to become as children
ourselves, under the same tutelage which holds
the young, in exchange for food, entertainment,
and safety. The difficulty is that the contract fixes
the goal of human life so low that students go
mad trying to escape it."
Quoted from "The Underground History of American Education"
by John Taylor Gatto.

Gatto wrote an article for _Harper's_ a few years ago, which supposedly
summarized his argument. I remember thinking at the time that it sounded
like elaborated and generalized grumbling; the Prussian connection was
evidence of nothing much, IMO, as education has always been a kind of
socialization, and the Prussian model just happened to be the one that was
widely admired at the time American public education was becoming

The trouble with Gatto's complaint, as well as most complaints about
education, is that the complaints all tend to sound the same, but the
solutions are all contradictory. The complaints are that we know too little,
that we think too little, or that we're unable to learn anything except what
we're spoon-fed. The solutions are that we spend too little time in school;
we spend too much time in school (Gatto's position). School is too
permissive; school is too authoritarian. We spend too much time teaching by
rote; we don't require kids to commit to memory the foundations of western

And on, and on, and on. No two critics see the problem in the same way, and
few offer remedies that aren't contradicting the *last* remedy that someone

All they have in common is that they don't like what's going on. They all
seem to have a utopian vision of what education should be, but their utopias
contradict each other.

It makes one skeptical about the whole enterprise.

We are all prodcuts of some system or other
but there are enough misfits, loners and individualists
to escape the zombification process and become
real thinking human beings. Plenty have done it
and, with the incredibly liberating power of the Internet,
the medium in which we are now having this exchange,
the process is accelerated.

Citizen Jimserac

That sounds like a retread of most complaints about education we've been
hearing for 50 years or more. Now it's the Internet. Good luck.

Ed Huntress