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Gunner
 
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Default OT- Writer Mark Steyn Compares Gun(g) Ho America To "Civilized" Europe or Why Law Abiding Gun Owners Reduce Crime

On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 20:32:50 +1300, Joe wrote:

Gunner quoted some canuck about burglary:

Steyn is a Canadian living in New Hampshire. His conclusion is
Americans "gun" culture or protecting yourself and others may be
more civilized than Europe.

Go ahead, burglar, make my day
By Mark Steyn
(Filed: 06/01/2004).................................


But who gives a **** about burglary when:

"Firearm Injuries
Scope of the Problem

Firearms are responsible for over 38,500 deaths per year.


No..firearms are used to injure..not responsible for. This includes
police and citizens shooting criminals, suicides, accidents, murders
etc.

Injuries resulting from firearms are estimated to be 5 fold
higher than deaths. Motor vehicle crashes, in comparison,
result in approximately 42,500 deaths per year in the US.
In 6 states firearm deaths exceed motor vehicle deaths and
by the year 2003 firearms are expected to be the leading
cause of injury death.

Of course we all all know thats bogus as hell. See below.

2000, United States
Unintentional Firearm Deaths and Rates per 100,000
All Races, Both Sexes, All Ages
ICD-10 Codes: W32-W34

Number of
Deaths Population Crude
Rate Age-Adjusted
Rate**
776 281,421,906 0.28 0.27

Accidental firearms deaths..all ages...776 hummmm Now you are aware
that many suicides are listed as accidents, are you not? And you are
aware that accidental firearms deaths are declining rapidly, even when
firearms ownership is climbing....

Accidental motor vehicle deaths...45,200...

The epidemiological profile of firearm deaths varies by age,
sex, race, region of the country and intent.


Yup.
National statistics for 1994 indicate that 52% of firearm
deaths resulted from suicide, 43% from homicide and 5% were
classified as unintentional. The majority of deaths are from
handguns rather than rifles or automatic weapons. High risk
groups for firearm homicide are young males between the ages
of 15-34 with the 15-24 year age group at highest risk. The
death rate for black males is over nine times that of white
males. Suicide death rates are higher in white males with
those over 85 years of age having the highest rates (60 per
100,000). Young males of both races between the ages of 15-24
have the second highest firearm suicide rate (18.8 per 100,000
for whites vs 17.0 per 100,000 for blacks). Unintentional firearm
deaths occur mainly in young children.


About 500 children die each year in the U.S. from "accidental"
shootings and at least 5 times as many are wounded.


Bogus figures. See data from the CDC supplied below.

US rates for firearm homicide and suicide are far higher than in
other countries. A recent CDC study indicated that American
children are 12 times more likely to die from a firearm injury
than children in other industrialized countries.


Some countries yes. On the other hand suicides and homicides are lower
than in other countries. Japan, has 9 times the suicide rate of the US,
and few are by firearm.

Cost of firearm injuries is estimated to be many billions of
dollars. The direct cost of medical treatment and emergency
services was $3 billion dollars in 1992. Much of this cost
is paid by the public. The total increases dramatically if
lost wages ($34 billion) and quality of life losses ($80 billion)
are tallied."

http://depts.washington.edu/hiprc/ch...opic/firearms/

Joe


The annual cost of motor vehicle occupant-related death and injury
exceeds $25.8 billion for children ages 14 and under, according to the
National Safe Kids Campaign.

Oh.Joe? Dont trust figures from sites with .edu and having antigun
agendas. Use the CDC or Department of Justice figures..they are more
accurate..

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm

Firearms and Crime Statistics
Firearm-related crime has plummeted since 1993
Nonfatal firearm crime rates have declined since 1994, reaching the
lowest level ever recorded in 2002.
After 1994, the proportion of nonfatal violent incidents involving a
firearm dropped.
According to the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) in 2002,
442,880 victims of violent crimes stated that they faced an offender
with a firearm.
Incidents involving a firearm represented 7% of the 4.9 million violent
crime of rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple
assault.
The FBI's Crime in the United States estimated that 67% of the 16,204
murders in 2002 were committed with firearms.
From 1993 through 1997, less than 1% of serious nonfatal violent
victimizations resulted in gunshot wounds.
The number of gunshot wounds from assaults treated in hospital emergency
departments fell from 64,100 in 1993 to 39,400 in 1997, a 39% decline.

Gun supply and homicides/suicides
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvsupp.html
http://www.cato.org/dailys/05-13-00.html
1. Thousands of children die annually in gun accidents.

False. Gun accidents involving children are actually at record lows,
although you wouldn't know it from listening to the mainstream media. In
1997, the last year for which data are available, only 142 children
under 15 years of age died in gun accidents, and the total number of
gun-related deaths for this age group was 642. More children die each
year in accidents involving bikes, space heaters or drownings. The often
repeated claim that 12 children per day die from gun violence includes
"children" up to 20 years of age, the great majority of whom are young
adult males who die in gang-related violence.

15 Leading Causes of Death in the U.S., 2001
Leading causes of death differ somewhat by age, sex, and race. In 2001,
as in previous years, accidents were the leading cause of death for
those under 34 years, while in older age groups chronic diseases such as
cancer and heart disease were the leading causes. The top three causes
for males and females—heart disease, cancer, and stroke—are exactly the
same. However, suicide and chronic liver disease ranked 8th and 10th for
males but were not ranked among the ten leading causes for females.
Similarly, Alzheimer's disease ranked 7th for females but was not among
the top ten for males. For white males aged 15–34, the top two causes
were accidents and suicide, while for black males in the same age group,
the top two causes of death were homicide and accidents.

Rank1 Causes of death Number Deaths per
100,000 population
All causes 2,417,798 849.0
1. Diseases of heart 699,697 245.7
2. Malignant neoplasms (cancer) 553,251 194.3
3. Cerebrovascular diseases 163,601 57.4
4. Chronic lower respiratory diseases 123,974 43.5
5. Accidents (unintentional injuries) 97,707 34.3
6. Diabetes mellitus 71,252 25.0
7. Influenza and pneumonia 62,123 21.8
8. Alzheimer's disease 53,679 18.8
9. Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis 39,661 13.9
10. Septicemia 32,275 11.3
11. Suicide 29,423 10.3
12. Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis 26,751 9.4
13. Homicide 19,727 6.9
14. Hypertension and hypertensive renal disease 19,054 6.7
15. Pneumonitis due to solids and liquids 17,392 6.1
All other causes 408,231 143.3

1. Rank based on number of deaths.
Source: U.S. National Center for Health Statistics, National Vital
Statistics Report, vol. 51, no. 5, March 14, 2003. Web: www.cdc.gov/nchs
..


1998 US Motor Vehicle Fatalities and Injuries by Type of Crash
Type of Accident Deaths NonfatalInjuries FatalAccidents InjuryAccidents
AllAccidents

Collision with-
Pedestrian 5,900 84,000 5,800 50,000 145,000
Other motor vehicle 19,500 1,700,000 15,000 1,010,000 8,980,000
Angle collision 9,900 900,000 7,400 540,000 4,550,000
Head on collision 6,600 61,000 5,000 36,000 190,000
Rear end collision 2,300 695,000 2,000 413,000 3,700,000
Sideswipe and other
two-vehicle collision 700 44,000 600 21,000 540,000
Railroad train 400 2,000 200 1,000 5,000
Pedalcycle 700 49,000 700 40,000 110,000
Animal, animal-drawn vehicle 100 10,000 100 9,000 520,000
Fixed object 10,500 260,000 10,200 235,000 2,590,000
Noncollision 4,100 95,000 4,000 55,000 350,000
TOTAL 41,200 2,200,000 36,000 1,400,000 12,700,000
***********************************
Hummmmm....2 million, 200 thousand injuries by motor vehicles.....

A motorist is 40 times more likely to die in a crash involving a train
than with another motor vehicle. In 1998, 14 were killed and 37 were
injured in 136 highway-rail crossing crashes across the state.
Nationally 422 fatalities and 1,270 injuries were associated with 3,446
such crashes. An additional 514 pedestrians were killed along US
railways, including 14 in Ohio.
(Ohio Department of Public Safety)

Looks like we need to ban trains......more people get killed by trains
accidently than by firearms accidents by some goodly amount.

The annual cost of motor vehicle occupant-related death and injury
exceeds $25.8 billion for children ages 14 and under, according to the
National Safe Kids Campaign.

In 2000, 1,654 children ages 14 and younger died in motor vehicle
crashes. In 2001, an estimated 228,000 children ages 14 and under were
injured in motor vehicle-related crashes. Among children who died in
2001, 55 percent were not using safety restraints at the time of the
collision.

The greatest number of recreational injuries to children in 2000
occurred while the child was riding a bicycle. Although most of these
415,000 injures were bruises (contusions), broken arms and wrists were
also common. There were more than 125,000 fractures among bicycle
riders. Falling off the bike and colliding with a fixed object such as a
wall or with another bicycle were the most common causes of injuries.

Basketball is the most popular team sport in high schools and the
leading cause of all sports-related injuries. In 2000, children aged 5
to 14 years had more than 407,000 muscle and bone injuries while playing
basketball. Although boys and girls at this age have similar injury
rates, the rate for knee injuries increases significantly for young
women aged 15 years and older. Girls also have more ankle sprains than
boys.

Football is a collision sport. In 2000, doctors treated an estimated
389,000 musculoskeletal injuries due to football in children 5 to 14
years of age. More than 100,000 injuries involved a fracture, although
sprains, strains, and bruises were also common.

Roller sports include inline skating, skateboarding, scooters and roller
skating. This category accounted for 297,000 medically treated
musculoskeletal injuries among 5-to 14-year olds in 2000. More than
125,000 of these injuries involved broken bones, primarily among
children under 10 years of age. Fractures due to skateboarding were more
common among older children (11 to 14 years old). The forearm and the
wrist were the most common fracture sites.

In the United States, there are approximately 15 million school-age
students and 100 to 200 reported pediatric sudden deaths per year,
roughly calculating to one to two children per 100,000 annually. Sudden
cardiac death during sports typically occurs in healthy, previously
asymptomatic children and young adults.

Yet the Center for Disease Control, which tracks all causes of death,
reports only 86 accidental deaths in kids aged 14-years-and-under in the
year 2000, and 110 suicides, for a total of 198. Not exactly 1,800.
(Even if Dr. Phil intended to include homicide and undetermined intent,
the total of kids aged 14-and-under killed by firearms in 2000,
according to the CDC, was 435.)


By contrast, the CDC reported 943 accidental drownings of kids aged
14-and-under, 593 deaths from accidental exposures to smoke and fire,
and 2,591 killed in motor vehicle accidents. Surely one child dying
through handgun violence -- or any kind of violence -- is one child too
many, but we should not lose perspective.

************

Looks like we need to ban water and fire.....



CDC Report on Gun Control Confirms Laws Don't Work Says Citizens
Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms

10/3/03 5:43:00 PM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: National Desk

Contact: Alan Gottlieb or Joe Waldron, 425-454-4911, both of the
Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms

BELLEVUE, Wash., Oct. 3 /U.S. Newswire/ -- A report released by the
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) showing that there is
no conclusive evidence that gun control laws contribute to decreases in
violent crime or suicide "proves what we have been saying for years,"
the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (CCRKBA) said
today.

"For years," said CCRKBA Executive Director Joe Waldron, "anti-gun
groups, often citing the CDC's earlier biased research, had claimed more
gun laws will reduce violent crime and suicide. CDC stopped conducting
advocacy research in 1996 by order of Congress. Now, according to more
balanced research, the CDC is basically acknowledging that its earlier
efforts, and those of extremist gun grabbers, have been all wet."

Yet the CDC, evidently unhappy with the available research, wants to
study the issue more, arguing that there is "insufficient evidence to
determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws reviewed for
preventing violence." Waldron rejected that as more partisan politics.

"Because the CDC could not reach yet another anti-gun conclusion," he
said, "they want to study some more, at least until they come up with a
report that squared with their long-standing anti-gun agenda. That
doesn't wash. For the first time, CDC has had to acknowledge that gun
control doesn't work."

The report brought an incredulous comment from Peter Hamm with the Brady
Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence: "It's hard to study whether gun
control laws work in this country because we have so few of them."

CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb offered this blistering response: "Hamm is
half-baked. Gun ownership in this country is heavily regulated by a
Pandora's Box of federal, state and local gun laws, many which often
conflict with one another to the point that private citizens cannot know
whether they are obeying a law while breaking another. The CDC report
seems to confirm what we've been saying all along. Gun control laws have
no impact on criminals, only law-abiding citizens who don't commit
crimes. To suggest we need more laws when the ones already passed as
successive panaceas apparently haven't worked is ludicrous.

"The CDC's suggestion for additional studies, simply because they don't
like the results of their own research, is like treating a patient with
drugs that you know aren't working, so you give him more of the same
drugs," Gottlieb observed.



So Joe..your rightious indignation is a bit misplaced. I suggest you ban
bicycles, swimming pools, motor vehicles, trains, abusive parents (whom
shook or beat to death many thousands more childen than they shot),
food (more choked to death on food than died by firearms accidents), all
sports, and pets.

Oh..you may want to ban all agriculture as well
http://research.marshfieldclinic.org.../FactSheet.htm

Chuckle

Work on it..someday you may get something right.

Gunner



"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout"
Unknown Usnet Poster

Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls.
Keyton