My wife wants me to make a shoji screen but I would really call it a room
divider as it will be about 8-9 feet in width. It will be made up of
individual panels about 24" side. She wants it to have the area inside the
frame of each panel covered in a fabric that won't let much light through.
I'm trying to decide if the better way to stretch the fabric which must look
nice on each side of the room divider would be over a solid piece of maybe
1/4" plywood or if it would be better to do it over a rectangular frame that
is empty in the middle (imagine the frame being made up of 4 1" wide pieces.
The best way I think would be a solid piece of plywood but we both worry
about weight. This room divider will not be up all the time but will only be
put up when the space it is dividing needs to be closed off for some
temporary sleeping arrangements. I know the rectangular frame over which the
fabric is stretched would be lighter but I wonder if it would be strong
enough.

I can't find anything that gives me a clue by using google. I'm guessing
that one or more of you have made something similar. What would you advise?

TIA.

Dick Snyder

Dick Snyder wrote:
My wife wants me to make a shoji screen but I would really call it a
room
divider as it will be about 8-9 feet in width. It will be made up of
individual panels about 24" side. She wants it to have the area
inside the
frame of each panel covered in a fabric that won't let much light
through.
I'm trying to decide if the better way to stretch the fabric which
must look
nice on each side of the room divider would be over a solid piece of
maybe
1/4" plywood or if it would be better to do it over a rectangular
frame that
is empty in the middle (imagine the frame being made up of 4 1" wide
pieces.
The best way I think would be a solid piece of plywood but we both
worry
about weight. This room divider will not be up all the time but will
only be
put up when the space it is dividing needs to be closed off for some
temporary sleeping arrangements. I know the rectangular frame over
which the
fabric is stretched would be lighter but I wonder if it would be
strong
enough.

I can't find anything that gives me a clue by using google. I'm
guessing
that one or more of you have made something similar. What would you
advise?

TIA.

I made a set of 7 panels 24" wide by just short of 8' tall, sliding on
closet door runners. The frames are 3/4 x 1 1/2 clear pine, which I
milled a 1/4" groove in for the panels, which are in my case 1/4
masonite, painted white and sponge textured with white pearlescent
(faking rice paper, sort of). I worked nights and needed to cover a
sliding glass door to block light.
Each panel weighs about 25 lbs, if you used something like this, I
think your screen would be too heavy to move. How are you going to
attach the panels to each other? If you could find some hinge hardware,
something like the hinges on an old typewriter case, where there is a
release and a pin that half the hinge slides off of, you could break
down your screen to individual panels when storing it. Seems to me you
need something solid for a panel, 1/4 baltic birch would weigh a lot
less than the masonite I used, I just happened to have it lying around.
Spray 3-m glue would work to glue the fabric to the ply. Don't forget
to allow for the fabric when routing/dadoing the groove in the frame
parts. I used 3/4 x 1/4 slats for "rails" to form the shoji look,
applied with glue AFTER I painted the panels. Matter of fact, I painted
first masking off the glue area, then assembled the whole frame, so the
masonite really is holding the frame together.
Hope this helps
Gary

Dick Snyder

Thanks Gary. That is very helpful. There are special double action hinges
that you can buy for these things:

http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product...&filter=hinges

However, those hinges don't separate. Maybe I can figure a way to use
different hinges every third panel or something to allow me to separate the
divider and thereby make it light enough to move.


wrote in message
oups.com...

Dick Snyder wrote:
My wife wants me to make a shoji screen but I would really call it a
room
divider as it will be about 8-9 feet in width. It will be made up of
individual panels about 24" side. She wants it to have the area
inside the
frame of each panel covered in a fabric that won't let much light
through.
I'm trying to decide if the better way to stretch the fabric which
must look
nice on each side of the room divider would be over a solid piece of
maybe
1/4" plywood or if it would be better to do it over a rectangular
frame that
is empty in the middle (imagine the frame being made up of 4 1" wide
pieces.
The best way I think would be a solid piece of plywood but we both
worry
about weight. This room divider will not be up all the time but will
only be
put up when the space it is dividing needs to be closed off for some
temporary sleeping arrangements. I know the rectangular frame over
which the
fabric is stretched would be lighter but I wonder if it would be
strong
enough.

I can't find anything that gives me a clue by using google. I'm
guessing
that one or more of you have made something similar. What would you
advise?

TIA.

I made a set of 7 panels 24" wide by just short of 8' tall, sliding on
closet door runners. The frames are 3/4 x 1 1/2 clear pine, which I
milled a 1/4" groove in for the panels, which are in my case 1/4
masonite, painted white and sponge textured with white pearlescent
(faking rice paper, sort of). I worked nights and needed to cover a
sliding glass door to block light.
Each panel weighs about 25 lbs, if you used something like this, I
think your screen would be too heavy to move. How are you going to
attach the panels to each other? If you could find some hinge hardware,
something like the hinges on an old typewriter case, where there is a
release and a pin that half the hinge slides off of, you could break
down your screen to individual panels when storing it. Seems to me you
need something solid for a panel, 1/4 baltic birch would weigh a lot
less than the masonite I used, I just happened to have it lying around.
Spray 3-m glue would work to glue the fabric to the ply. Don't forget
to allow for the fabric when routing/dadoing the groove in the frame
parts. I used 3/4 x 1/4 slats for "rails" to form the shoji look,
applied with glue AFTER I painted the panels. Matter of fact, I painted
first masking off the glue area, then assembled the whole frame, so the
masonite really is holding the frame together.
Hope this helps
Gary

Dick Snyder

Dick Snyder wrote:
My wife wants me to make a shoji screen but I would really call it a
room
divider as it will be about 8-9 feet in width. It will be made up of
individual panels about 24" side. She wants it to have the area
inside the
frame of each panel covered in a fabric that won't let much light
through.
I'm trying to decide if the better way to stretch the fabric which
must look
nice on each side of the room divider would be over a solid piece of
maybe
1/4" plywood or if it would be better to do it over a rectangular
frame that
is empty in the middle (imagine the frame being made up of 4 1" wide
pieces.
The best way I think would be a solid piece of plywood but we both
worry
about weight. This room divider will not be up all the time but will
only be
put up when the space it is dividing needs to be closed off for some
temporary sleeping arrangements. I know the rectangular frame over
which the
fabric is stretched would be lighter but I wonder if it would be
strong
enough.

I can't find anything that gives me a clue by using google. I'm
guessing
that one or more of you have made something similar. What would you
advise?

TIA.

Dick Snyder


Hi Dick,

When we lived in San Francisco, I had a Japenese carpenter build us
some authentic shoji screens to cover a sliding glass door and as a
face frame for an entertainment center.

He used well dried Bass wood. The screen part was a very thin but
strong fiberglass sheet, it looked exactally like real rice paper, but
you could windex it and wipe the dust off.

He designed it so the back side of each panel was a small frame itself
held in place by screws (into the larger outside frame) so we could
replace the fiberglass if it ever got damaged.

I top mounted it on a sliding track which worked really well.

This was in 1998, so I don't have any receipts anymore, but I'll dig
around.

The carpenter had his shop in South San Francisco.

rob

Dick Snyder wrote:
My wife wants me to make a shoji screen but I would really call it a
room
divider as it will be about 8-9 feet in width. It will be made up of
individual panels about 24" side. She wants it to have the area
inside the
frame of each panel covered in a fabric that won't let much light
through.
I'm trying to decide if the better way to stretch the fabric which
must look
nice on each side of the room divider would be over a solid piece of
maybe
1/4" plywood or if it would be better to do it over a rectangular
frame that
is empty in the middle (imagine the frame being made up of 4 1" wide
pieces.
The best way I think would be a solid piece of plywood but we both
worry
about weight. This room divider will not be up all the time but will
only be
put up when the space it is dividing needs to be closed off for some
temporary sleeping arrangements. I know the rectangular frame over
which the
fabric is stretched would be lighter but I wonder if it would be
strong
enough.

I can't find anything that gives me a clue by using google. I'm
guessing
that one or more of you have made something similar. What would you
advise?

TIA.

Dick Snyder


Hi Dick,

When we lived in San Francisco, I had a Japenese carpenter build us
some authentic shoji screens to cover a sliding glass door and as a
face frame for an entertainment center.

He used well dried Bass wood. The screen part was a very thin but
strong fiberglass sheet, it looked exactally like real rice paper, but
you could windex it and wipe the dust off.

He designed it so the back side of each panel was a small frame itself
held in place by screws (into the larger outside frame) so we could
replace the fiberglass if it ever got damaged.

I top mounted it on a sliding track which worked really well.

This was in 1998, so I don't have any receipts anymore, but I'll dig
around.

The carpenter had his shop in South San Francisco.

rob

Here is the best I can do (searching with google and my lame memory)

Japan Woodworking & Design
233 S Maple Av #5 South San Francisco, CA 94080
650 873 6175

Maybe he can tell you where to get the fiberglass mat, or maybe he will
sell it to you. It was just a two person shop (father and son).

Dunno if it helps, but perhaps you could use an exterior window-screen
design. You know, for keeping bugs and such out. I redid the screens
in (on?) my old house, and they were a face-frame with a little piece
of molding nailed on to it, which held the screen down.

Nahm did a similar trick with a gazebo, I think it was. His method for
stretching the screens was pretty nifty.

Good luck either way.

-Phil Crow

On 21 Mar 2005 06:07:48 -0800, wrote:

Nahm did a similar trick with a gazebo, I think it was. His method for
stretching the screens was pretty nifty.

Can you point to that please?

Dick Snyder wrote:
My wife wants me to make a shoji screen but I would really call it a
room divider as it will be about 8-9 feet in width. It will be made
up of individual panels about 24" side. She wants it to have the
area inside the frame of each panel covered in a fabric that won't
let much light through. I'm trying to decide if the better way to
stretch the fabric which must look nice on each side of the room
divider would be over a solid piece of maybe 1/4" plywood or if it
would be better to do it over a rectangular frame that is empty in
the middle (imagine the frame being made up of 4 1" wide pieces. The
best way I think would be a solid piece of plywood but we both worry
about weight. This room divider will not be up all the time but will
only be put up when the space it is dividing needs to be closed off
for some temporary sleeping arrangements. I know the rectangular
frame over which the fabric is stretched would be lighter but I

You said it was to be a room divider but also said the individual panels
would be about "24" side". Since it is to be a room divider, I assume
each panel will be *more* than 24" tall? Or do you plan to stack
24"x24" panel on top of others?

If the latter, you should be able to stretch fabric over a 24"x24" panel
without deflecting the frame members. If each panel is 24" by height of
panel, panel being 5-6 feet high, then no, the scantling of your frame
members won't allow it IMO.
________________

I can't find anything that gives me a clue by using google. I'm
guessing that one or more of you have made something similar. What
would you advise?

Years ago, I built a bunch of screens like that to use as backgrounds (I
was a photographer) Don't recall exactly the sizes but they were
approximately 8' wide x 7' tall. I used 3/4 x 1 1/4 stock for the
frames. Inserts were 1/4 ply covered with wallpaper (1/8 door skin ply
would probably work too). The screens weren't all that heavy, I was
easily able to schlepp them around myself.


--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Dick Snyder wrote:

My wife wants me to make a shoji screen but I would really call it a room
divider as it will be about 8-9 feet in width. It will be made up of
individual panels about 24" side. She wants it to have the area inside
the frame of each panel covered in a fabric that won't let much light
through. I'm trying to decide if the better way to stretch the fabric
which must look nice on each side of the room divider would be over a
solid piece of maybe 1/4" plywood or if it would be better to do it over a
rectangular frame that is empty in the middle (imagine the frame being
made up of 4 1" wide pieces. The best way I think would be a solid piece
of plywood but we both worry about weight. This room divider will not be
up all the time but will only be put up when the space it is dividing
needs to be closed off for some temporary sleeping arrangements. I know
the rectangular frame over which the fabric is stretched would be lighter
but I wonder if it would be strong enough.

I can't find anything that gives me a clue by using google. I'm guessing
that one or more of you have made something similar. What would you
advise?

Google "shoji howto" and "shoji paper" and you may have more luck. There's
a 92 page book on shoji that goes for around 20 bucks that you might want
to take a look at.

Before you get started, learn how the Japanese make them--you may decide
that you don't want to do it in the traditional way, but the traditional
way has worked for a very long time. Among other things, they use paper or
in recent times acrylic, not fabric. This eliminates the whole "stretching
the fabric" issue.

TIA.

Dick Snyder

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

rob wrote:

Here is the best I can do (searching with google and my lame memory)

Japan Woodworking & Design
233 S Maple Av #5 South San Francisco, CA 94080
650 873 6175

Maybe he can tell you where to get the fiberglass mat, or maybe he will
sell it to you. It was just a two person shop (father and son).

If you google "fiberglass shoji" you'll get a huge number of hits, some of
which have the material available for order.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

The room divider will be like a shoji screen but instead of being 3 or 4
panels, it will probably be 6 or 7 panels. The panels will be about 6' 6"
high.

Regarding the comment about scantling, my preliminary thinking has been to
cut dados in the frame pieces. I would insert fabric covered panels. That
would not put any stress on the frame members I don't think. The other
alternative is rabbets like the Nahm comment earlier in this thread. Either
way, there will be no pull on the frame members by the fabric.


"dadiOH" wrote in message
news:i1C%d.15116$oa6.9917@trnddc07...
Dick Snyder wrote:
My wife wants me to make a shoji screen but I would really call it a
room divider as it will be about 8-9 feet in width. It will be made
up of individual panels about 24" side. She wants it to have the
area inside the frame of each panel covered in a fabric that won't
let much light through. I'm trying to decide if the better way to
stretch the fabric which must look nice on each side of the room
divider would be over a solid piece of maybe 1/4" plywood or if it
would be better to do it over a rectangular frame that is empty in
the middle (imagine the frame being made up of 4 1" wide pieces. The
best way I think would be a solid piece of plywood but we both worry
about weight. This room divider will not be up all the time but will
only be put up when the space it is dividing needs to be closed off
for some temporary sleeping arrangements. I know the rectangular
frame over which the fabric is stretched would be lighter but I

You said it was to be a room divider but also said the individual panels
would be about "24" side". Since it is to be a room divider, I assume
each panel will be *more* than 24" tall? Or do you plan to stack
24"x24" panel on top of others?

If the latter, you should be able to stretch fabric over a 24"x24" panel
without deflecting the frame members. If each panel is 24" by height of
panel, panel being 5-6 feet high, then no, the scantling of your frame
members won't allow it IMO.
________________

I can't find anything that gives me a clue by using google. I'm
guessing that one or more of you have made something similar. What
would you advise?

Years ago, I built a bunch of screens like that to use as backgrounds (I
was a photographer) Don't recall exactly the sizes but they were
approximately 8' wide x 7' tall. I used 3/4 x 1 1/4 stock for the
frames. Inserts were 1/4 ply covered with wallpaper (1/8 door skin ply
would probably work too). The screens weren't all that heavy, I was
easily able to schlepp them around myself.


--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Thanks for the google tip!! Sometimes you have to learn to ask the right
question. My previous searches only ended up with products for sale.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Dick Snyder wrote:

My wife wants me to make a shoji screen but I would really call it a room
divider as it will be about 8-9 feet in width. It will be made up of
individual panels about 24" side. She wants it to have the area inside
the frame of each panel covered in a fabric that won't let much light
through. I'm trying to decide if the better way to stretch the fabric
which must look nice on each side of the room divider would be over a
solid piece of maybe 1/4" plywood or if it would be better to do it over
a
rectangular frame that is empty in the middle (imagine the frame being
made up of 4 1" wide pieces. The best way I think would be a solid piece
of plywood but we both worry about weight. This room divider will not be
up all the time but will only be put up when the space it is dividing
needs to be closed off for some temporary sleeping arrangements. I know
the rectangular frame over which the fabric is stretched would be lighter
but I wonder if it would be strong enough.

I can't find anything that gives me a clue by using google. I'm
guessing
that one or more of you have made something similar. What would you
advise?

Google "shoji howto" and "shoji paper" and you may have more luck.
There's
a 92 page book on shoji that goes for around 20 bucks that you might want
to take a look at.

Before you get started, learn how the Japanese make them--you may decide
that you don't want to do it in the traditional way, but the traditional
way has worked for a very long time. Among other things, they use paper
or
in recent times acrylic, not fabric. This eliminates the whole
"stretching
the fabric" issue.

TIA.

Dick Snyder

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

There are a couple of books on making shoji screens- one by Jay Van
Arsdale and one by Toshio Odate. I have the Van Arsdale book which is
very thorough and I've checked out the Odate book from the library.
I've made several shoji screens, mainly three or four panel moveable
screens with dual action hinges that I purchased from Lee Valley. I
also made a set of swinging (think Old West saloon) shoji doors with
cafe hinges. For the frames I've used vertical grain Douglas Fir and
white and red oak. For the panels I've used both rice paper and a spun
fiberglass material named Synskin sold by TAP Plastics. The rice paper
I glued to the frames with wallpaper paste. The Synskin I stapled into
a rabbet and then put trim over the staples. The Synskin is thicker and
would definitely stand up to more abuse. I've also made solid panel
screens with 1/8" masonite panels inside a frame. This screen I primed
with pigmented shellac and painted. I would look at the Van Arsdale
book for some ideas and construction methods.

Dale

Dick Snyder wrote:
My wife wants me to make a shoji screen but I would really call it a
room
divider as it will be about 8-9 feet in width. It will be made up of
individual panels about 24" side. She wants it to have the area
inside the
frame of each panel covered in a fabric that won't let much light
through.
I'm trying to decide if the better way to stretch the fabric which
must look
nice on each side of the room divider would be over a solid piece of
maybe
1/4" plywood or if it would be better to do it over a rectangular
frame that
is empty in the middle (imagine the frame being made up of 4 1" wide
pieces.
The best way I think would be a solid piece of plywood but we both
worry
about weight. This room divider will not be up all the time but will
only be
put up when the space it is dividing needs to be closed off for some
temporary sleeping arrangements. I know the rectangular frame over
which the
fabric is stretched would be lighter but I wonder if it would be
strong
enough.

I can't find anything that gives me a clue by using google. I'm
guessing
that one or more of you have made something similar. What would you
advise?

TIA.

Dick Snyder

It was somewhere outside Barstow when "Dick Snyder"
wrote:

My wife wants me to make a shoji screen but I would really call it a room
divider

Shoji uses sliding panels, supported in a frame. If you make it free
standing, you have to adapt the designs somewhat. They're also very
lightweight and you may find a heavier and more stable design is
easier to live with. Paper infills are quite easily torn and the
panels are light enought (unchanged) that they may even blow over in a
draught.

Personally I'd take a look at Frank Llloyd Wright's furniture work. He
was a great afficionado of Japanese design and also of living in large
continuous spaces broken up with the use of portable screens. Some of
his "not-quite-shoji" designs may be of interest to you.

Toshio Odate's shoji book is good - there are a couple of others too.
Genuine shoji making techniques are hard work - very precise fitting
of the joinery.

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 21:15:59 -0500, "Dick Snyder"
wrote:

My wife wants me to make a shoji screen but I would really call it a room
divider as it will be about 8-9 feet in width. It will be made up of
individual panels about 24" side. She wants it to have the area inside the
frame of each panel covered in a fabric that won't let much light through.
I'm trying to decide if the better way to stretch the fabric which must look
nice on each side of the room divider would be over a solid piece of maybe
1/4" plywood or if it would be better to do it over a rectangular frame that
is empty in the middle (imagine the frame being made up of 4 1" wide pieces.
The best way I think would be a solid piece of plywood but we both worry
about weight. This room divider will not be up all the time but will only be
put up when the space it is dividing needs to be closed off for some
temporary sleeping arrangements. I know the rectangular frame over which the
fabric is stretched would be lighter but I wonder if it would be strong
enough.

I can't find anything that gives me a clue by using google. I'm guessing
that one or more of you have made something similar. What would you advise?

TIA.

Dick Snyder



Woodsmith published an article in their magazine years ago about a 3
panel shoji. They use a somewhat non traditional method of
construction. I modified that design to use as individual panels to
slide in front of two different windows in my house. Both are quite
light because of my choice of wood. In my case, I used sitka spuce.
Perhaps that issue or article is still available from them. You build
multiple sets of that 3 panel assembly instead of one giant assembly.

And that could be one of the keys to your problem. Use a light wood
for the frame construction. Others in this thread have pointed you to
other good sources of information.

Let's see, how to tell it...

He laid 2 screens end to end, and tacked the screens onto the frames at
the far ends. Stand by for bad ASCII art:

|~~~~~~~~~~~~~| |~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| | | |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~| |~~~~~~~~~~~~|
Here and Here

Then, put a 2x or something between the 2 frames, effectively making
the total length of the actual screen material longer and stretching it
tight. Proceed with nailing it down.

I hope that clears it up.

-Phil Crow

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 21:15:59 -0500, "Dick Snyder"
wrote:

My wife wants me to make a shoji screen but I would really call it a room
divider as it will be about 8-9 feet in width. It will be made up of
individual panels about 24" side. She wants it to have the area inside the
frame of each panel covered in a fabric that won't let much light through.
I'm trying to decide if the better way to stretch the fabric which must look
nice on each side of the room divider would be over a solid piece of maybe
1/4" plywood or if it would be better to do it over a rectangular frame that
is empty in the middle (imagine the frame being made up of 4 1" wide pieces.
The best way I think would be a solid piece of plywood but we both worry
about weight. This room divider will not be up all the time but will only be
put up when the space it is dividing needs to be closed off for some
temporary sleeping arrangements. I know the rectangular frame over which the
fabric is stretched would be lighter but I wonder if it would be strong
enough.

I can't find anything that gives me a clue by using google. I'm guessing
that one or more of you have made something similar. What would you advise?

I haven't made one *yet*, but I've been putting some thought into them
for my bedroom. Best way I can think of to do it is to make a
rectangular frame that is empty in the middle with a dado cut into the
inside of the frame sections. Tack the fabric to some small pieces of
matching wood that fill the dado (leaving just enough room for the
fabric, of course) and then glue the strips into place. If you're
stretching the sucker really tight, you could use some "decorative"
pins or dowels to make sure the strips you've got the fabric tacked
to don't pop out later on.

Hope this gives you a starting point.


Aut inveniam viam aut faciam