A customer called me today and said that the keeper for a lock that we
use for their showcases is screwed into the endgrain of the
particleboard. This connection is failing, they say.

I have my own opinion on this but I would like to know if my fellow
Wreckers think that there is any directionality to particleboard.

I already understand that this is made under a hot press, which
increases the density of the board on its face but, is there any
difference in holding power for a screw driven through the face v. the
edge?

I'm talking about a screw that goes into the board for 1-1/4".

Glad to hear an opinion.




tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 (webpage)

On 2005-02-10, Tom Watson wrote:
A customer called me today and said that the keeper for a lock that we
use for their showcases is screwed into the endgrain of the
particleboard. This connection is failing, they say.

[snip]

You DO have to use special screws in particle board. Take a look
at this first, then do a search on particle board in their search bar.

http://www.mcfeelys.com/multiple.asp?productID=9015-HD

I hate particle board - mdf/hdf/osb - all glue with a waste material
binder. Only place I use it is for the extension table on my
unisaw and on a couple of sliding tables for power tools.

--
I can find no modern furniture that is as well designed and emotionally
satisfying as that made by Gustav Stickley in the early years of the last
century.

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:05:42 -0500, Tom Watson
wrote:

A customer called me today and said that the keeper for a lock that we
use for their showcases is screwed into the endgrain of the
particleboard. This connection is failing, they say.

I have my own opinion on this but I would like to know if my fellow
Wreckers think that there is any directionality to particleboard.

I already understand that this is made under a hot press, which
increases the density of the board on its face but, is there any
difference in holding power for a screw driven through the face v. the
edge?

I'm talking about a screw that goes into the board for 1-1/4".

Glad to hear an opinion.




tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 (webpage)

Wellll i gots my own thoughts on PB as well but we wont go into that!
lol.. :-] as far as i can tell its all end grain! however screws do
seem to hold better into the face side. you absolutely must pre bore
it though as i'm sure you are aware. and glue the heel outta it too !
is there some way to incorporate real wood into the mix where the lock
is? just a thought.

skeez

I have see the presses that make this stuff and have learned the
manufacturing process. DAMW!

These boards are actually (usually) multi layered - again most boards
are 4 to 6 layers. (Fiber, resin, fiber, resin, fiber,resin, fiber -
then cook in the press - cookie sheet or continuous roller style) There
is "some orientation" of the fibers in particle board and fiber board.
Again - depends on the board and the manufacturer. Been through a lot of
plants... Never saw any that weren't like this - but somebody always
knows more. :-)

There is a normally a finer layer of fibers on the outside (face) of the
board (except -- I think -- on the very coarsest boards - the Oriented
Strand Board -- OSB style). My own experience is that screws hold better
on the face - not the ends. probably this is due to the press action and
a greater compression 90 deg. to the face of the board.

Next time you are in the lumber yard take a close look at the
construction of the different styles -- you should be able to see the
layers. MDF is usually the easiest to see the layering.

Just wear a dust mask when you cut that crud.


Tom Watson wrote:
A customer called me today and said that the keeper for a lock that we
use for their showcases is screwed into the endgrain of the
particleboard. This connection is failing, they say.

I have my own opinion on this but I would like to know if my fellow
Wreckers think that there is any directionality to particleboard.

I already understand that this is made under a hot press, which
increases the density of the board on its face but, is there any
difference in holding power for a screw driven through the face v. the
edge?

I'm talking about a screw that goes into the board for 1-1/4".

Glad to hear an opinion.




tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 (webpage)

--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

There is no "grain" to particleboard, end or otherwise. It is made up of
small, randomly oriented fragments of wood fiber (basically sawdust) in a
resin binder. Threaded fasteners frequently fail in particleboard because
there is little structural integrity to the material.

The fix for your particular problem is to bore out the failed screw hole,
glue in a hardwood dowel, drill a pilot hole and reinstall the screw.

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
A customer called me today and said that the keeper for a lock that we
use for their showcases is screwed into the endgrain of the
particleboard. This connection is failing, they say.

I have my own opinion on this but I would like to know if my fellow
Wreckers think that there is any directionality to particleboard.

I already understand that this is made under a hot press, which
increases the density of the board on its face but, is there any
difference in holding power for a screw driven through the face v. the
edge?

I'm talking about a screw that goes into the board for 1-1/4".

Glad to hear an opinion.




tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 (webpage)

"Chuck Hoffman" wrote in message
t...
There is no "grain" to particleboard, end or otherwise. It is made up of
small, randomly oriented fragments of wood fiber (basically sawdust) in a
resin binder. Threaded fasteners frequently fail in particleboard because
there is little structural integrity to the material.

The fix for your particular problem is to bore out the failed screw hole,
glue in a hardwood dowel, drill a pilot hole and reinstall the screw.


....or maybe, glue the dowel at right angles to the screw. A screw into the
endgrain of most any wood is a weak attachment. This is a picture of
something I did last summer rebuilding a desk. The pine serves as a
substrate for a quarter inch oak plywood top glued to the substrate. I
drilled the holes 5/8" with a Forstner bit and used hardwood dowels. Also I
used pocket screws predrilled through the oak trim on the desk edge. The
screw holes were then plugged with matching oak. Of course, I realize that
my suggestion just might not be feasible for this particular problem.

http://home.mchsi.com/~lhote5/deskedge.jpg

Larry
--
Lawrence L'Hote
Columbia, MO
www.llhote.com

Tom Watson wrote:

I have my own opinion on this but I would like to know if my fellow
Wreckers think that there is any directionality to particleboard.

Well, particle board can refer to a variety of things but..

Considering the considerable difference in paint sucking ability of MDF
on its edge vrs. its face, I would have to say it is oriented in some
fashion.

For the sheet goods made of coarser chips, it is quite evident from
looking at it that the press process orients the chips "flat"; this
would indeed make it directional. This is probably true for MDF as well,
it is just harder to observe; anything composite made of non-symmetrical
bits would tend to exhibit this I would think.

OTOH, man-made materials is certainly not my field of expertise.

PK

In article , Chuck
Hoffman wrote:

There is no "grain" to particleboard, end or otherwise. It is made up of
small, randomly oriented fragments of wood fiber (basically sawdust) in a
resin binder.

Randomly oriented in three dimensions?

I think not.

They may be randomly oriented in the horizontal plane but they are
oriented horizontally in layers. Therefore, there is end grain.

As Paul sez, compare the paint sucking ability of edge vs face.

djb

--
"The thing about saying the wrong words is that A, I don't notice it, and B,
sometimes orange water gibbon bucket and plastic." -- Mr. Burrows

mdf/hdf/osb - all glue with a waste material
binder.

Particle board, MDF & OSB are all quite different products.; they all
have their uses. MDF has decent strength, machines well & accepts
paint well. It is not particle board but it isn't furniture grade
hardwood either.

Particle board is just that; made of wood particles; not much better
than coarse sawdust.

MDF is made from wood fibers that are generated by breaking down wood
chemically to the fiber level.

OSB is made from wood species that cannot be "peeled"; but can chipped
or flaked.

That said; the faces of all particle board, MDF & OSB are denser than
the edges, thus generating "end grain" or directionality behavior.

Source of info:

f2f discussion with APA wood specialists

cheers
Bob

snip

I would like to know if my fellow
Wreckers think that there is any directionality to particleboard.

snip

No.