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Lars Stole
 
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Default 2-1/4 or 3 HP router for floating tenons and dovetail jig?

I'm looking to purchase a new router to accomplish 2 things --
occasional floating tenons (which I have never tried before) and
occasional dovetail cutting. I currently have a 2-1/4HP Makita router
dedicated in a router table, and I am tired of taking it out whenever I
need to use a hand held router. (Also, the plunge on the Makita is not
so great IMHO.)

I've never cut floating tenons beofre (only integral ones using my
mortiser anda chisel), but David Marks makes it look easy so I thought
I'd try it on my next project. I notice that every time I see a him
cut a floating tenon, however, he does it with one of his 3HP routers
-- never with a 2-1/4 HP.

As I understand the tradeoffs, the 3HP weighs much more, but packs more
power and probably has a longer-lasting motor. The weight is a
negative for me unless you think it will be easier to avoid router tip
when cutting dovetails on a cheap dovetail jig. The motor longevity is
not really an issue given I will only use the router a few dozen times
a year. So then the issue is power. If I get a 2-1/4HP router, will
this mean that instead of cutting 1/2" depth on each pass, for example,
that I cut a 3/8" depth? If so, that hardly seems worth the extra
weight given the number of cuts I will make per year.

I'm leaning toward buying the Bosch 2-1/4HP router package (which
includes dust collection and other extras) at amazon.com before the
sale ends (possibly today). The alternative is to buy either the
Dewalt or Hitachi 3HP, but I've done less research on 3HP plunge
routers so I am not as tied to these choices.



  #2   Report Post  
Pat Barber
 
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Default

Most of the work in creating tenon stock is done on the
jointer or planer. The edging is the only real thing
done on the router table. A 1.5hp router would be fine
for that. For strickly table work, bigger is better, but
I don't see how anybody can live with less than 5-6 routers.

When you set your dovetail bit on your router, you will be
loathe to EVER change that setting. I would have a dedicated
router for just that function. I will buy a PC 690 at a
moments notice.




Lars Stole wrote:
I'm looking to purchase a new router to accomplish 2 things --
occasional floating tenons (which I have never tried before) and
occasional dovetail cutting.


  #3   Report Post  
Leon
 
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"Lars Stole" wrote in message
news:2004122008592516807%larsstole@gsbuchicagoedu. ..
I'm looking to purchase a new router to accomplish 2 things --
occasional floating tenons (which I have never tried before) and
occasional dovetail cutting. I currently have a 2-1/4HP Makita router
dedicated in a router table, and I am tired of taking it out whenever I
need to use a hand held router. (Also, the plunge on the Makita is not so
great IMHO.)

I've never cut floating tenons beofre (only integral ones using my
mortiser anda chisel), but David Marks makes it look easy so I thought I'd
try it on my next project.


OK, unless I am missing something here, you are not cutting tenons with you
mortiser and chisel. You are cutting mortises. David Marks is planing
stock down to the thickness of the mortise and rips to about the width of
the "mortise" that he often cuts with a multirouter and uses a beading bit
on a router table to round the edges. The rounding of the edges on the
router table can be done with most any router. The mortises can also be
made with a hand held router and a jig. Again most any router can
accomplish this.
That said, if you intend to cut raised panels with your router, sort of a
floating tenon, you will need the larger router providing you are using a
horizontal raised panel bit.

I notice that every time I see a him
cut a floating tenon, however, he does it with one of his 3HP routers --
never with a 2-1/4 HP.

As I understand the tradeoffs, the 3HP weighs much more, but packs more
power and probably has a longer-lasting motor. The weight is a negative
for me unless you think it will be easier to avoid router tip when cutting
dovetails on a cheap dovetail jig.


For a dove tail jig I prefer to use my Bosch 1617evs. This is a medium duty
router and is easier to adjust and control on a DT jig.



The motor longevity is
not really an issue given I will only use the router a few dozen times a
year. So then the issue is power. If I get a 2-1/4HP router, will this
mean that instead of cutting 1/2" depth on each pass, for example, that I
cut a 3/8" depth? If so, that hardly seems worth the extra weight given
the number of cuts I will make per year.


I agree and yes, simply make shallower passes.


I'm leaning toward buying the Bosch 2-1/4HP router package (which includes
dust collection and other extras) at amazon.com before the sale ends
(possibly today).


That would be a good choice. 1617 EVS kit I assume.


The alternative is to buy either the
Dewalt or Hitachi 3HP, but I've done less research on 3HP plunge routers
so I am not as tied to these choices.


May I also recommend the Triton router if you are considering a larger
router. It is loaded with features. You can use it like a fixed base or a
plunge router with out changing bases. It is great under the router table
and has both coarse and fine height adjustments. Read that as not having to
spend $100's later on a router lift of some sort when you decide you want
better control over height adjustment when hanging in a router table.
Router bits can be changed above the table when mounted in a router table
with out the hassle of removing the router from the table. For hand use it
also comes with an edge guide and of course it has variable speed.





  #4   Report Post  
Leon
 
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"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...


When you set your dovetail bit on your router, you will be
loathe to EVER change that setting.


Are you only cutting Blind dovetails? IIRC the DT bit setting is not all
that critical on "Through" DT's when using a Leigh Jig. But when cutting
Blind DT's you are absolutely correct. The setting is exactly the same for
any thickness of wood and each bit regardless of brand has its own sweet
spot that must be achieved for a good fit on a Blind DT.

I would have a dedicated
router for just that function. I will buy a PC 690 at a
moments notice.


That is why I bought a Bosch 1617evs. It is very easy to get the exact
depth setting for the DT bit.


  #5   Report Post  
Lars Stole
 
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Default

Oops. I meant cutting the MORTISES for mortise-and-tenon joints. I
should have drank some coffee before posting.

On 2004-12-20 08:59:25 -0600, Lars Stole said:

I'm looking to purchase a new router to accomplish 2 things --
occasional floating tenons (which I have never tried before) and
occasional dovetail cutting. I currently have a 2-1/4HP Makita router
dedicated in a router table, and I am tired of taking it out whenever I
need to use a hand held router. (Also, the plunge on the Makita is not
so great IMHO.)

I've never cut floating tenons beofre (only integral ones using my
mortiser anda chisel), but David Marks makes it look easy so I thought
I'd try it on my next project. I notice that every time I see a him
cut a floating tenon, however, he does it with one of his 3HP routers
-- never with a 2-1/4 HP.

As I understand the tradeoffs, the 3HP weighs much more, but packs more
power and probably has a longer-lasting motor. The weight is a
negative for me unless you think it will be easier to avoid router tip
when cutting dovetails on a cheap dovetail jig. The motor longevity is
not really an issue given I will only use the router a few dozen times
a year. So then the issue is power. If I get a 2-1/4HP router, will
this mean that instead of cutting 1/2" depth on each pass, for example,
that I cut a 3/8" depth? If so, that hardly seems worth the extra
weight given the number of cuts I will make per year.

I'm leaning toward buying the Bosch 2-1/4HP router package (which
includes dust collection and other extras) at amazon.com before the
sale ends (possibly today). The alternative is to buy either the
Dewalt or Hitachi 3HP, but I've done less research on 3HP plunge
routers so I am not as tied to these choices.





  #6   Report Post  
Leon
 
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"Lars Stole" wrote in message
news:2004122010334616807%larsstole@gsbuchicagoedu. ..
Oops. I meant cutting the MORTISES for mortise-and-tenon joints. I
should have drank some coffee before posting.



LOL... If it makes you feel better I have a problem with which is the rail
and which is the stile.


  #7   Report Post  
Jim L.
 
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Rail vs stile- think of a rail fence. Jim

Leon wrote in message
. ..

"Lars Stole" wrote in message
news:2004122010334616807%larsstole@gsbuchicagoedu. ..
Oops. I meant cutting the MORTISES for mortise-and-tenon joints. I
should have drank some coffee before posting.



LOL... If it makes you feel better I have a problem with which is the rail
and which is the stile.




  #8   Report Post  
Leon
 
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"Jim L." wrote in message
news
Rail vs stile- think of a rail fence. Jim



Duh....

Believe it or not,

I used "STYLE" for the stile. The vertical piece that only has "one"
"STYLE" router bit used on it. The Rail uses 2 "STYLE" router bits to form
the coped end and the edge.

You gotta do what you gotta do .. LOL

I like your suggestion much better. Sometimes the rails are on the ends
of the stiles and that totally voids my way of determining which was which.


  #9   Report Post  
patrick conroy
 
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Default


"Lars Stole" wrote in message
news:2004122008592516807%larsstole@gsbuchicagoedu. ..


I've never cut floating tenons beofre (only integral ones using my
mortiser anda chisel), but David Marks makes it look easy so I thought I'd
try it on my next project. I notice that every time I see a him


Me too. He seems committed to them, I'm going to put some time behind them
and see if they work out for me too.


cut a floating tenon, however, he does it with one of his 3HP routers --
never with a 2-1/4 HP.


Prolly cuz' he owns a 3HP?


I'm leaning toward buying the Bosch 2-1/4HP router package (which includes
dust collection and other extras) at amazon.com before the sale ends
(possibly today).


I grabbed that one a few weeks ago - the 1617EVSPK with the goodies. It is
*very* nice. I tried a few mortises and am very pleased with the softstart,
the plunge and the edge guide.


  #10   Report Post  
Phisherman
 
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Default

The extra weight of a router for hand operations is a big deal.
Consider a "D" handle with the ON/OFF switch in the handle.

On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:59:25 -0600, Lars Stole
wrote:

I'm looking to purchase a new router to accomplish 2 things --
occasional floating tenons (which I have never tried before) and
occasional dovetail cutting. I currently have a 2-1/4HP Makita router
dedicated in a router table, and I am tired of taking it out whenever I
need to use a hand held router. (Also, the plunge on the Makita is not
so great IMHO.)

I've never cut floating tenons beofre (only integral ones using my
mortiser anda chisel), but David Marks makes it look easy so I thought
I'd try it on my next project. I notice that every time I see a him
cut a floating tenon, however, he does it with one of his 3HP routers
-- never with a 2-1/4 HP.

As I understand the tradeoffs, the 3HP weighs much more, but packs more
power and probably has a longer-lasting motor. The weight is a
negative for me unless you think it will be easier to avoid router tip
when cutting dovetails on a cheap dovetail jig. The motor longevity is
not really an issue given I will only use the router a few dozen times
a year. So then the issue is power. If I get a 2-1/4HP router, will
this mean that instead of cutting 1/2" depth on each pass, for example,
that I cut a 3/8" depth? If so, that hardly seems worth the extra
weight given the number of cuts I will make per year.

I'm leaning toward buying the Bosch 2-1/4HP router package (which
includes dust collection and other extras) at amazon.com before the
sale ends (possibly today). The alternative is to buy either the
Dewalt or Hitachi 3HP, but I've done less research on 3HP plunge
routers so I am not as tied to these choices.





  #11   Report Post  
CW
 
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Default

Neither of the tasks you speak of requires a great deal of power. I do both
with a PC 690. More horsepower will not really let you take a deeper cut in
a plow situation as in cutting mortises. To deep, no matter the horsepower
and the bit will load, burn and break. As for loose tennons, look at a
Beadlock. Won't work in every situation but most of the time it will. It is
also much faster to set up than a router.

"Lars Stole" wrote in message
news:2004122010334616807%larsstole@gsbuchicagoedu. ..
Oops. I meant cutting the MORTISES for mortise-and-tenon joints. I
should have drank some coffee before posting.

On 2004-12-20 08:59:25 -0600, Lars Stole

said:

I'm looking to purchase a new router to accomplish 2 things --
occasional floating tenons (which I have never tried before) and
occasional dovetail cutting. I currently have a 2-1/4HP Makita router
dedicated in a router table, and I am tired of taking it out whenever I
need to use a hand held router. (Also, the plunge on the Makita is not
so great IMHO.)

I've never cut floating tenons beofre (only integral ones using my
mortiser anda chisel), but David Marks makes it look easy so I thought
I'd try it on my next project. I notice that every time I see a him
cut a floating tenon, however, he does it with one of his 3HP routers
-- never with a 2-1/4 HP.

As I understand the tradeoffs, the 3HP weighs much more, but packs more
power and probably has a longer-lasting motor. The weight is a
negative for me unless you think it will be easier to avoid router tip
when cutting dovetails on a cheap dovetail jig. The motor longevity is
not really an issue given I will only use the router a few dozen times
a year. So then the issue is power. If I get a 2-1/4HP router, will
this mean that instead of cutting 1/2" depth on each pass, for example,
that I cut a 3/8" depth? If so, that hardly seems worth the extra
weight given the number of cuts I will make per year.

I'm leaning toward buying the Bosch 2-1/4HP router package (which
includes dust collection and other extras) at amazon.com before the
sale ends (possibly today). The alternative is to buy either the
Dewalt or Hitachi 3HP, but I've done less research on 3HP plunge
routers so I am not as tied to these choices.





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