A Review of Craftsman's Professional cabinet saw (22124).

I received my Craftsman table saw a few days ago. These are my
preliminary thoughts on the saw.

First, let me explain my perspective and why I bought the Craftsman
22124. I am a woodworking enthusiast, taking courses on furniture
making, etc., in my spare time and learning all that I can about the
craft. (At the school where I am taking classes, I routinely use the
delta unisaws and an ulmia cross-cut saw, but I have not had experience
with other cabinet saws.) I wanted to purchase a high-end, used 50"
cabinet saw (e.g., unisaw or P66) and was prepared to pay much more
for it than the craftsman, but in my current shop situation I am forced
to work in small quarters (so 30" is preferred) and with only 110v.
This last requirement left me looking at contractor saws, hybrid sawa,
Grizzly's 1023S110 and the craftsman 22124. A review on the Griz
(24amp motor) indicated that a 2" piece of oak will trip a 20amp
breaker, so I ruled that option out. Looking at the contractor
saws, hybrids, and the Craftsman Professional cabinet saw left me with
the strong impression that the Craftsman+Biesemeyer fence was the best
value. In addition, I timed the purchase during the overlap of the
Sears credit card sale and Craftsman days to get the saw for $690!.
I figured that I could get a large fraction of that back when I sell
the saw in year and upgrade to a 3HP uinsaw and, in the meantime, I
would have a reasonable saw for weekend furniture making.

Here are my first impressions:

(1) Paying $49 to Sears for home delivery was worth every penny. These
guys got the boxes off the truck and positioned exactly where I wanted
them in my voltage-deficient garage.

(2) The packaging was very well done -- angle-iron framing with an
ample supply of plastic wrap and styrofoam.

(3) The fit and finish was OK, but not good. Surprisingly, given the
effort in packaging, the underlying parts were scratched and marred in
various places.

(4) The table saw was not aligned properly. The cast-iron table was
shifted forward almost 3/8" too far and was out of parallel by almost
a 1/16". One call to customer service, however, and I immediately
spoke to someone (Scott) who was very knowledgeable about the saw who
explained where the 4 table bolts were located. He also agreed that
the manual had a few errors and was busy writing version 2.0.

(5) The instructions for installing the Biesemeyer fence had a few
inaccuracies that were annoying. Customer service knew about the
errors and apologized.

(6) The rear splitter assembly is made of aluminum and the bolt in the
block was improperly threaded. After tightening it to the splitter
rod, I discovered a small spiral of aluminum that the bolt had cut
away. The splitter assembly will not securely attach at this point.
Customer service is sending me a replacement part.

(7) I have not yet obtained a feeler gauge to check the flatness of the
table. It is not perfect, however, but reasonably flat. The cast iron
table on my grizzly jointer (which I like very much) is in the same
category of flatness -- reasonable, but not perfect.

(8) The cast iron wings needed to be shimmed (I used masking tape) to
obtain a flat surface. This was relatively easy to do and is a problem
common to many saw manufacturers, so I don't hold that against
Craftsman.

(9) There is a small yellow circle of plastic in the middle of the
table with the writing "align-a-cut" that seems to serve no purpose
whatsoever. The instruction manual says nothing about it. Any ideas
how to use this?

(10) The craftsman 22124 is a true cabinet saw with motor mounted to
the cabinet with cast iron trunions. The Biesemeyer fence performs
flawlessly.

(11) Comparison to Delta unisaw. I grew up with Craftsman tools when
they were considered something great. Recently, craftsman products
(e.g., their previous line of cabinet table saws) have not performed
very well. I was encouraged by the news that the new Craftsman 22124
saw was designed and produced by Orion (run by some of the people who
left Delta in 1999 following the P-C merger). That said, even if this
is made by ex-Delta-folks, this is not a unisaw or of that caliber.
Most notably, it is a bit lighter and vibrates very slightly. The
trunions underneath the Craftsman do not seem as massive as the Delta
unisaw's. On the other hand, it costs less than half as much as the
Delta.

(12) Cutting power is surprisingly good. I cut through some 6/4 oak
without any problems. More surprisingly, I have a 18amp (2HP) Penn
State dust collector on the same circuit (that's 33amps in total) and
the 20-amp circuit breaker did not trip. Thus, either the table saw
or the dust collector were running far below their potential. My next
project calls for some 8/4 oak, so that will be the real test, I
suppose.

(13) The Lietz blade that is included seems fairly good. I have a WWII
and a set of Freud blades, but I will probably continue to use the
Lietz blade until it looses its sharpness (or I need something more
specialized).


IMHO, a table saw needs to be flat, heavy/low-vibration, powerful and
have a great fence. For what I want to do, 1.75HP is all that I need
most of the time, and the Biesemeyer fence is great. There is some
very slight vibration relative to the unisaws I know, but I suspect the
vibration is insignificant compared to the vibration in contractor and
hybrid saws.

I am very pleased with my purchase.

Maybe link belts for the vibration?
Re (9), the Align A Cut is used to indicate the exact cut line, so you can
set to it without going up close to the blade. You can make a cut, pull it
back, and scribe it on the plastic. I think some of them had a piece of
metal with setscrews, so you could set up for different blades.
Wilson
"Lars Stole" wrote in message
news:2004101115442775249%larsstole@gsbuchicagoedu. ..
A Review of Craftsman's Professional cabinet saw (22124).

I received my Craftsman table saw a few days ago. These are my
preliminary thoughts on the saw.

First, let me explain my perspective and why I bought the Craftsman
22124. I am a woodworking enthusiast, taking courses on furniture
making, etc., in my spare time and learning all that I can about the
craft. (At the school where I am taking classes, I routinely use the
delta unisaws and an ulmia cross-cut saw, but I have not had experience
with other cabinet saws.) I wanted to purchase a high-end, used 50"
cabinet saw (e.g., unisaw or P66) and was prepared to pay much more
for it than the craftsman, but in my current shop situation I am forced
to work in small quarters (so 30" is preferred) and with only 110v.
This last requirement left me looking at contractor saws, hybrid sawa,
Grizzly's 1023S110 and the craftsman 22124. A review on the Griz
(24amp motor) indicated that a 2" piece of oak will trip a 20amp
breaker, so I ruled that option out. Looking at the contractor
saws, hybrids, and the Craftsman Professional cabinet saw left me with
the strong impression that the Craftsman+Biesemeyer fence was the best
value. In addition, I timed the purchase during the overlap of the
Sears credit card sale and Craftsman days to get the saw for $690!.
I figured that I could get a large fraction of that back when I sell
the saw in year and upgrade to a 3HP uinsaw and, in the meantime, I
would have a reasonable saw for weekend furniture making.

Here are my first impressions:

(1) Paying $49 to Sears for home delivery was worth every penny. These
guys got the boxes off the truck and positioned exactly where I wanted
them in my voltage-deficient garage.

(2) The packaging was very well done -- angle-iron framing with an
ample supply of plastic wrap and styrofoam.

(3) The fit and finish was OK, but not good. Surprisingly, given the
effort in packaging, the underlying parts were scratched and marred in
various places.

(4) The table saw was not aligned properly. The cast-iron table was
shifted forward almost 3/8" too far and was out of parallel by almost
a 1/16". One call to customer service, however, and I immediately
spoke to someone (Scott) who was very knowledgeable about the saw who
explained where the 4 table bolts were located. He also agreed that
the manual had a few errors and was busy writing version 2.0.

(5) The instructions for installing the Biesemeyer fence had a few
inaccuracies that were annoying. Customer service knew about the
errors and apologized.

(6) The rear splitter assembly is made of aluminum and the bolt in the
block was improperly threaded. After tightening it to the splitter
rod, I discovered a small spiral of aluminum that the bolt had cut
away. The splitter assembly will not securely attach at this point.
Customer service is sending me a replacement part.

(7) I have not yet obtained a feeler gauge to check the flatness of the
table. It is not perfect, however, but reasonably flat. The cast iron
table on my grizzly jointer (which I like very much) is in the same
category of flatness -- reasonable, but not perfect.

(8) The cast iron wings needed to be shimmed (I used masking tape) to
obtain a flat surface. This was relatively easy to do and is a problem
common to many saw manufacturers, so I don't hold that against
Craftsman.

(9) There is a small yellow circle of plastic in the middle of the
table with the writing "align-a-cut" that seems to serve no purpose
whatsoever. The instruction manual says nothing about it. Any ideas
how to use this?

(10) The craftsman 22124 is a true cabinet saw with motor mounted to
the cabinet with cast iron trunions. The Biesemeyer fence performs
flawlessly.

(11) Comparison to Delta unisaw. I grew up with Craftsman tools when
they were considered something great. Recently, craftsman products
(e.g., their previous line of cabinet table saws) have not performed
very well. I was encouraged by the news that the new Craftsman 22124
saw was designed and produced by Orion (run by some of the people who
left Delta in 1999 following the P-C merger). That said, even if this
is made by ex-Delta-folks, this is not a unisaw or of that caliber.
Most notably, it is a bit lighter and vibrates very slightly. The
trunions underneath the Craftsman do not seem as massive as the Delta
unisaw's. On the other hand, it costs less than half as much as the
Delta.

(12) Cutting power is surprisingly good. I cut through some 6/4 oak
without any problems. More surprisingly, I have a 18amp (2HP) Penn
State dust collector on the same circuit (that's 33amps in total) and
the 20-amp circuit breaker did not trip. Thus, either the table saw
or the dust collector were running far below their potential. My next
project calls for some 8/4 oak, so that will be the real test, I
suppose.

(13) The Lietz blade that is included seems fairly good. I have a WWII
and a set of Freud blades, but I will probably continue to use the
Lietz blade until it looses its sharpness (or I need something more
specialized).


IMHO, a table saw needs to be flat, heavy/low-vibration, powerful and
have a great fence. For what I want to do, 1.75HP is all that I need
most of the time, and the Biesemeyer fence is great. There is some
very slight vibration relative to the unisaws I know, but I suspect the
vibration is insignificant compared to the vibration in contractor and
hybrid saws.

I am very pleased with my purchase.

Wilson notes:

Maybe link belts for the vibration?

No. Multipoly, very flexible but no linked. Pulleys are machined, of course, or
the belt wouldn't work.

Charlie Self
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for
selfishness." John Kenneth Galbraith

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Wilson notes:

Maybe link belts for the vibration?

No. Multipoly, very flexible but no linked. Pulleys are machined, of
course, or
the belt wouldn't work.


Multipoly? Is that anything like an automotive timing belt or serpentine
fan belt?

Leon asks:

No. Multipoly, very flexible but no linked. Pulleys are machined, of
course, or
the belt wouldn't work.


Multipoly? Is that anything like an automotive timing belt or serpentine
fan belt?


It might be. Several Vs off a very flexible belt's underside fit into matching
grooves on the pulleys. Helps a lot in attaining smoothness, and these new
Craftsman saws are very smooth.

Charlie Self
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for
selfishness." John Kenneth Galbraith

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:44:27 -0500, Lars Stole wrote:
(9) There is a small yellow circle of plastic in the middle of the
table with the writing "align-a-cut" that seems to serve no purpose
whatsoever. The instruction manual says nothing about it. Any ideas
how to use this?

Yup,
If you need to make several cuts of the same type. After the first one,
carefully pull the piece back and make a pencil mark on the disk. Now you
can align to that mark and all the pieces will be cut the same way. Or
you can use it to set the kerf width for the blade on both sides, useful
if you are making cuts with the blade tilted. Make a cut from each side of
the blade, mark the edges and you can see your kerf width.

Used to be in the Manual, oops, it was the old sears power tool know how
book. The pictures for the "Exact-I-Cut" show, Joe Woodbutcher, using a
miter gauge with a hold down to find the and mark the edges of the kerf.

And SWMBO thinks I'm crazy 'cause I hate to throw things out.

Hi Lars and group
I posted to another thread, my thoughts about the saw, which
I own as well and really like. I do appreciate your thorough review. I
gave one months back as well. I do hope more woodworkers will see it's
merits! As for the yellow thingie.............Simply cut a board and
draw it back and then pencil a line along its edge in the yellow
plastic circle. You now have a guide to line up your cut on whichever
side of the blade should you so desire. Works well while using a dado
stack and odd set ups! Good luck with your saw. I love mine!


Happy with Sears,
Michael

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Leon asks:

No. Multipoly, very flexible but no linked. Pulleys are machined, of
course, or
the belt wouldn't work.


Multipoly? Is that anything like an automotive timing belt or serpentine
fan belt?


It might be. Several Vs off a very flexible belt's underside fit into
matching
grooves on the pulleys. Helps a lot in attaining smoothness, and these new
Craftsman saws are very smooth.

If they are narrow "V's" running the length of the belt is sounds like what
GM calls the serpentine belt. Very flexible and lots of surface contact
area. IIRC Powermatic uses two of these on the PM 666

Leon responds:


If they are narrow "V's" running the length of the belt is sounds like what
GM calls the serpentine belt. Very flexible and lots of surface contact
area. IIRC Powermatic uses two of these on the PM 666

Sounds similar to identical. But you don't want to bring a model 666 down here
to Fundamentalist country.

Charlie Self
"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind
simultaneously, and accepting both of them." George Orwell

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:58:36 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

If they are narrow "V's" running the length of the belt is sounds like what
GM calls the serpentine belt.

Serpentine belts are polygroove, but not all polygrooves are
serpentine.

A serpentine belt can have a flat pulley running on the back of it,
and can use this to deliver power (rather than just being a
tensioner).

If you use a non-serpentine belt as one, there's a risk of rapid wear
on the back and exposing the tensile cords. These don't like surface
wear at all, then your belt breaks.

--
Smert' spamionam

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Leon responds:


If they are narrow "V's" running the length of the belt is sounds like
what
GM calls the serpentine belt. Very flexible and lots of surface contact
area. IIRC Powermatic uses two of these on the PM 666

Sounds similar to identical. But you don't want to bring a model 666 down
here
to Fundamentalist country.


No Nuh Uh PM 66 I meant to say. ;~)

On 13 Oct 2004 10:16:56 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:


You know that. I know that. But you gotta remember, Jerry Falwell was all over
the lavender TeleTubby for being a homosexual...because it was lavendar, IIRC.


Your kidz are grown, huh?
Tinky Winky started sportin' a purse. A red purse.

With three small ones lemme' know if you need to know what happened on
Clifford last nite. I can also fill you in on Blue's Clues, Dora and
Jakers.

Patrick Conroy responds:

You know that. I know that. But you gotta remember, Jerry Falwell was all
over
the lavender TeleTubby for being a homosexual...because it was lavendar,
IIRC.


Your kidz are grown, huh?
Tinky Winky started sportin' a purse. A red purse.

With three small ones lemme' know if you need to know what happened on
Clifford last nite. I can also fill you in on Blue's Clues, Dora and
Jakers.

No thanks. Even the grandchildren are past that stage, though their idea of
high entertainment remains the TV set.

Charlie Self
"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind
simultaneously, and accepting both of them." George Orwell

HEY - Teletubby, Tinky Winky, red purse.....................Jeeessee!

OBVIOUSLY YOU GUYS NEED TO GO OUT TO YOUR SHOP!

NOW!

On 13 Oct 2004 17:15:39 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

No thanks. Even the grandchildren are past that stage, though their idea of
high entertainment remains the TV set.

How about teaching them "Table Saw Kickback Darts"? Paint the
bullseye on the back wall of the shop, start feeding in some stressed
wood. Sit back and keep score! Double points if the wood stays in the
drywall, etc.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:06:14 GMT, patrick conroy
wrote:

On 13 Oct 2004 10:16:56 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:


You know that. I know that. But you gotta remember, Jerry Falwell was all over
the lavender TeleTubby for being a homosexual...because it was lavendar, IIRC.


Your kidz are grown, huh?
Tinky Winky started sportin' a purse. A red purse.

With three small ones lemme' know if you need to know what happened on
Clifford last nite. I can also fill you in on Blue's Clues, Dora and
Jakers.

jeeze... when the grandkidz were living with us, I'd catch myself
whistling the Dora song..
The last time they came to visit, I sent 'em inside.. told them the tv
in the shop was broken..

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:44:27 -0500, Lars Stole
wrote:

This last requirement left me looking at contractor saws, hybrid sawa,
Grizzly's 1023S110 and the craftsman 22124.


What is a hybrid saw ?

Thanks !

On 12 Oct 2004 14:20:19 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:


Sounds similar to identical. But you don't want to bring a model 666 down here
to Fundamentalist country.


We collect medical research data, including lab data.
We were converting someone else's lab data to our
system. For one variable, there were a bunch of errors,
someone entering a code that wasn't assigned to any-
thing. We went back to the lab to try to find out what was
wrong. It turned out that the code that should have been
used was "666" but one of the lab techs refused to type
it in so she made up her own. The lab is in San Diego,
by the way.

GregP notes:

Sounds similar to identical. But you don't want to bring a model 666 down
here
to Fundamentalist country.


We collect medical research data, including lab data.
We were converting someone else's lab data to our
system. For one variable, there were a bunch of errors,
someone entering a code that wasn't assigned to any-
thing. We went back to the lab to try to find out what was
wrong. It turned out that the code that should have been
used was "666" but one of the lab techs refused to type
it in so she made up her own. The lab is in San Diego,
by the way.

Where was the lab tech born and raised?

I mean, after all, we ALL know that no one is born in California. Actually, I
know one guy who was. He lives about 10 miles from me in Virginia.

Charlie Self
"There are two ways of exerting one's strength: one is pushing down, the other
is pulling up." Booker T. Washington

GregP asks:

What is a hybrid saw ?

A saw with most of the characteristics of a cabinet saw, but close to the
weight and power of a contractor saw. DeWalt, Jet and Craftsman now have
models.

Charlie Self
"There are two ways of exerting one's strength: one is pushing down, the other
is pulling up." Booker T. Washington

On 20 Oct 2004 19:59:28 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

GregP notes:

Sounds similar to identical. But you don't want to bring a model 666 down
here
to Fundamentalist country.


We collect medical research data, including lab data.
We were converting someone else's lab data to our
system. For one variable, there were a bunch of errors,
someone entering a code that wasn't assigned to any-
thing. We went back to the lab to try to find out what was
wrong. It turned out that the code that should have been
used was "666" but one of the lab techs refused to type
it in so she made up her own. The lab is in San Diego,
by the way.

Where was the lab tech born and raised?

I mean, after all, we ALL know that no one is born in California. Actually, I
know one guy who was. He lives about 10 miles from me in Virginia.

Charlie Self

Hey, I was born in San Diego.

met a fair number of pretty superstitious people there too. most of
them from somewhere else, yep.

bridger responds:

We went back to the lab to try to find out what was
wrong. It turned out that the code that should have been
used was "666" but one of the lab techs refused to type
it in so she made up her own. The lab is in San Diego,
by the way.

Where was the lab tech born and raised?

I mean, after all, we ALL know that no one is born in California. Actually,
I
know one guy who was. He lives about 10 miles from me in Virginia.

Charlie Self

Hey, I was born in San Diego.

met a fair number of pretty superstitious people there too. most of
them from somewhere else, yep.

Perhaps I should have written that "no one who was born in CA lives there."
Where are you located these days?

Charlie Self
"There are two ways of exerting one's strength: one is pushing down, the other
is pulling up." Booker T. Washington

Charlie Self wrote:

Where was the lab tech born and raised?

I mean, after all, we ALL know that no one is born in California.
Actually, I know one guy who was. He lives about 10 miles from me in
Virginia.

I know a woman who was born in San Francisco. She's been living here in
Virginia for 20 years or so.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

GregP wrote:

What is a hybrid saw ?

A hybrid saw has a battery pack and a gasoline engine. If you're cutting
light wood like pine, it runs off the batteries. When you feed in some oak
or hickory, the gas engine kicks in to give it more power.

G D & R

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Charlie Self wrote:

[snip]
I mean, after all, we ALL know that no one is born in California. Actually, I
know one guy who was. He lives about 10 miles from me in Virginia.

Charlie Self
"There are two ways of exerting one's strength: one is pushing down, the other
is pulling up." Booker T. Washington

Well, harumph! How about both my wives and all my children. In fact,
my first wife's parents were born in California. Grumble. The very
idea. Humph.
j4

On 20 Oct 2004 21:35:43 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

bridger responds:

We went back to the lab to try to find out what was
wrong. It turned out that the code that should have been
used was "666" but one of the lab techs refused to type
it in so she made up her own. The lab is in San Diego,
by the way.

Where was the lab tech born and raised?

I mean, after all, we ALL know that no one is born in California. Actually,
I
know one guy who was. He lives about 10 miles from me in Virginia.

Charlie Self

Hey, I was born in San Diego.

met a fair number of pretty superstitious people there too. most of
them from somewhere else, yep.

Perhaps I should have written that "no one who was born in CA lives there."
Where are you located these days?

Arizona....

bridger responds:

I mean, after all, we ALL know that no one is born in California.
Actually,
I
know one guy who was. He lives about 10 miles from me in Virginia.

Charlie Self

Hey, I was born in San Diego.

met a fair number of pretty superstitious people there too. most of
them from somewhere else, yep.

Perhaps I should have written that "no one who was born in CA lives there."
Where are you located these days?

Arizona....


Got an old college buddy who lives near Sonoita. I say near, because a million
years ago he bought some desert outside town and has been living there ever
since, through a couple wives, girlfriends and a slew of reconstructed
motorcycles. Got himself a BS in business admin, and hasn't held a full-time
job since. Works at what he needs, when he needs to, to make things work for
him, everything from teaching motorcycle riding at Pima College, to leading
motorcycle tours in Wales. Added to building fences for ranchers and rebuilding
and selling motorcycles, he seems to do just fine.

He's from the Long Island area, in NY.

Americans do seem to move around a bit.


Charlie Self
"When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not
hereditary." Thomas Paine

In article ,
GregP wrote:
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:44:27 -0500, Lars Stole
wrote:

This last requirement left me looking at contractor saws, hybrid sawa,
Grizzly's 1023S110 and the craftsman 22124.


What is a hybrid saw ?


It's a better class than a lo-brid one, obviously. grin


More seriously, "What do you get when you cross a contractor saw with
a cabinet saw?"

I know, I know -- a contractor saw with delusions of grandeur.


Start with a contractor-style saw. make the 'box' enclosing the works
bigger. put it on stumpy, permanently attached, legs. Beef up the
trunions. Maybe support 'em from the box, rather than the table-top.

Tisn't realy fish, nor fowl. it's a hybrid.