....on your Table Saw? My brother in law was over last night and we were
standing at my table saw discussing safety. He said he always stands in
front of the piece of wood he is feeding into the table saw and feeds it
through by holding his push stick on top of the wood between the blade and
the fence. I said I always stand to the left of the blade and feed it
through by holding the wood on the outside of the blade. He felt he had
better control his way, I felt it was dangerous to stand directly behind
it. We both use those long notched push sticks.

Also, he cuts thin strips with the waste side between the fence and the
blade. So if he wanted to rip a 1" piece off a 6" board, he would have the
5" side between the fence and the blade. I do it in reverse. I never
really thought about it. How do you guys do it? Which is safer/better?

--
--Jim
©¿©¬

I stand to the left when I can. Obviously you cannot always get far enough
to the left, and you need to be standing comfortably.

I cut narrow strips against the fence so long as I can get a pushstick on
them. Generally that means down to about 1/4" will be against the fence.

--
Bill Pounds
http://www.billpounds.com/woodshop


"jtpr" wrote in message
news:1096835894.eYlvSgVjg6IsV/Z5Ix8+Lw@teranews...
...on your Table Saw? My brother in law was over last night and we were
standing at my table saw discussing safety. He said he always stands in
front of the piece of wood he is feeding into the table saw and feeds it
through by holding his push stick on top of the wood between the blade and
the fence. I said I always stand to the left of the blade and feed it
through by holding the wood on the outside of the blade. He felt he had
better control his way, I felt it was dangerous to stand directly behind
it. We both use those long notched push sticks.

Also, he cuts thin strips with the waste side between the fence and the
blade. So if he wanted to rip a 1" piece off a 6" board, he would have
the
5" side between the fence and the blade. I do it in reverse. I never
really thought about it. How do you guys do it? Which is safer/better?

--
--Jim
©¿©¬

If I'm ripping, I never stand so I am positioned behind the kickback
zone between the blade and the fence.

Never.

Uusally when crosscutting I use a sled, so I am much less concerned
about anything coming at me.

jtpr wrote:

...on your Table Saw? My brother in law was over last night and we were
standing at my table saw discussing safety. He said he always stands in
front of the piece of wood he is feeding into the table saw and feeds it
through by holding his push stick on top of the wood between the blade and
the fence. I said I always stand to the left of the blade and feed it
through by holding the wood on the outside of the blade. He felt he had
better control his way, I felt it was dangerous to stand directly behind
it. We both use those long notched push sticks.

Also, he cuts thin strips with the waste side between the fence and the
blade. So if he wanted to rip a 1" piece off a 6" board, he would have the
5" side between the fence and the blade. I do it in reverse. I never
really thought about it. How do you guys do it? Which is safer/better?



I never stand behind the blade unless I have a sled. I have had a
narrow strip kick back and spear through a dry wall panel that was 15
feet behind me.

Regarding cutting the wide or narrow strip against the fence, I usually
have the workpiece against the fence with the waste on the outside of
the blade so the workpiece is guaranteed to be parallel regardless of
width of cut (I don't rely on the uncut piece to have parallel edges).

TWS

"jtpr" wrote in message ...

standing at my table saw discussing safety. He said he always stands in
front of the piece of wood he is feeding into the table saw and feeds it
through by holding his push stick on top of the wood between the blade and
the fence. I said I always stand to the left of the blade and feed it
through by holding the wood on the outside of the blade. He felt he had
better control his way, I felt it was dangerous to stand directly behind
it. We both use those long notched push sticks.

You will get various opinions ... the below works for me.

Most feel standing to the left of the blade is safer ... being right handed,
that works for me. As a rule, do not stand directly behind the piece if you
can avoid it ... sometimes you can't.

Make yourself a push "block" on the design of the old "shoe" style bush
block. There is a picture of the kind I use on my website on the Jigs and
Fixtures page. Make them in various sized out of 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4"
plywood.

This design will allow you to put downward pressure on the board just by
flexing your wrist, without having to actually push down. It is a lot safer,
IMO, than a notched push stick as it give you more control all the way
through the cut.

Use the push block between the fence and blade, on the piece you are
keeping.

Do not push on the offcut with the push stick or push block, particularly as
you go past the blade.

Also, he cuts thin strips with the waste side between the fence and the
blade. So if he wanted to rip a 1" piece off a 6" board, he would have
the
5" side between the fence and the blade. I do it in reverse. I never
really thought about it. How do you guys do it? Which is safer/better?

Try to keep the piece you're keeping between the fence and the blade (that's
what the fence gauge is for) ... normally the offcut (the piece you're not
keeping) should be on the outside of the blade. This can change for some
operations.

Once again, you will get various opinions on this.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04

"jtpr" wrote in message
news:1096835894.eYlvSgVjg6IsV/Z5Ix8+Lw@teranews...
...on your Table Saw? My brother in law was over last night and we were
standing at my table saw discussing safety. He said he always stands in
front of the piece of wood he is feeding into the table saw and feeds it
through by holding his push stick on top of the wood between the blade and
the fence. I said I always stand to the left of the blade and feed it
through by holding the wood on the outside of the blade. He felt he had
better control his way, I felt it was dangerous to stand directly behind
it. We both use those long notched push sticks.

After being hit with a couple of 3 hp missiles I always stand to the left,
but I also use a push stick--it's possible and not all that difficult.

Also, he cuts thin strips with the waste side between the fence and the
blade. So if he wanted to rip a 1" piece off a 6" board, he would have
the
5" side between the fence and the blade. I do it in reverse. I never
really thought about it. How do you guys do it? Which is safer/better?

I keep the waste outside the blade so that the cuts are repeatable without
moving the fence.

These methods actually seem to work pretty well for me--I haven't had a
kickback in several years. And since I'm a couple inches taller than
average, that's...ahem...OK for me.

Bob

"jtpr" wrote in message
news:1096835894.eYlvSgVjg6IsV/Z5Ix8+Lw@teranews...
.. I felt it was dangerous to stand directly behind
it. We both use those long notched push sticks.

It can be danerous. You are safer off to the left if something comes flying
back.

I rarely use the ong pushstick you describe. Mine has a handle that I
traced from a hand saw and the top sits on the wood about 6". Very firm to
grip and good pressure on the wood going through the blade.


Also, he cuts thin strips with the waste side between the fence and the
blade. So if he wanted to rip a 1" piece off a 6" board, he would have
the
5" side between the fence and the blade. I do it in reverse. I never
really thought about it. How do you guys do it? Which is safer/better?

I cut down to about 3/4" with the good part to the fence. Much narrower,
I'm not comfortable.

I made a block of wood with a screw head on the side. The block has a strip
on the bottom and fits in the left miter slot. The screw is adjustable so I
can measure from the blade to the position for a thin strip. That way I can
move the fence in after every cut and get a consistent thin strip[ and not
have to measure each time.
--
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

"jtpr" wrote in message
news:1096835894.eYlvSgVjg6IsV/Z5Ix8+Lw@teranews...
...on your Table Saw? My brother in law was over last night and we were
standing at my table saw discussing safety. He said he always stands in
front of the piece of wood he is feeding into the table saw and feeds it
through by holding his push stick on top of the wood between the blade and
the fence. I said I always stand to the left of the blade and feed it
through by holding the wood on the outside of the blade. He felt he had
better control his way, I felt it was dangerous to stand directly behind
it. We both use those long notched push sticks.

Also, he cuts thin strips with the waste side between the fence and the
blade. So if he wanted to rip a 1" piece off a 6" board, he would have
the
5" side between the fence and the blade. I do it in reverse. I never
really thought about it. How do you guys do it? Which is safer/better?

--
--Jim

I take my cues from both reading and watching Kelly Mehler, who has written
books on table saw use and is a strong proponent of table saw safety. He
defines the major risks to using a table saw as a) kickback, b) ejection,
and c) laceration. Lacertation is easy to understand: don't use your flesh
as a substitute for wood. However people confuse ejection for kickback,
where kickback is generally far more dangerous. Ejection occurs when the
workpiece is ejected straight back due to the friction force between the
workpiece and the saw blade. Per Kelly Mehler in _The Table Saw Book_,
"kickback is caused by the tendency of the rising teeth at the rear of the
blade to pick up the workpiece, catapulting it toward the operator at speeds
approaching 100 miles per hour." When this happens "the workpiece is
hurtled diagonally backward toward the operator." If you're standing to the
left of the blade, you're going to catch a kickback right in the gut. Kelly
states that the most common table saw accident by far is kickback. The only
way to completely eliminate the risk of kickback is to use a properly
adjusted splitter or riving knife. If you don't have that, keeping the
piece firmly against the fence and using a shoe-type pusher will help. With
that in mind, use a cross-cut sled when you can.

For narrow cutoffs, I do it the way your BIL does. If the cutoff is
particularly narrow, I make sure to use a zero-clearance insert.

todd

On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:38:16 -0400, "jtpr" wrote:
[snip]
I said I always stand to the left of the blade and feed it
through by holding the wood on the outside of the blade.

I may be totally confused here, but I believe you should be
pushing on the piece between the fence and the blade to keep it
where it belongs, on the table. Pushing the waste piece leaves a
unguided chunk of wood between the fence and blade where it can get
caught or wedged and come flying back at you. The waste piece left of
the blade will usually just sit there when the cutting is done. All
this assumes we're talking fence on the right and I understood this
like I thought I did.

--
John, in Minnesota, who doesn't always understand what someone else
meant when he reads what they wrote.

On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 18:57:09 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
wrote:

However people confuse ejection for kickback,
where kickback is generally far more dangerous. Ejection occurs when the
workpiece is ejected straight back due to the friction force between the
workpiece and the saw blade. Per Kelly Mehler in _The Table Saw Book_,
"kickback is caused by the tendency of the rising teeth at the rear of the
blade to pick up the workpiece, catapulting it toward the operator at speeds
approaching 100 miles per hour." When this happens "the workpiece is
hurtled diagonally backward toward the operator." If you're standing to the
left of the blade, you're going to catch a kickback right in the gut.

I have never seen or heard of a saw actually kicking a piece in any
direction other than in line with the blade. Based on physics, I can
see a potential for the piece to perhaps move somewhat to one side or
the other depending on weight and contact with the fence, but for it
to be thrown so that it will hit an operator to the side seems
questionable.

Consider: The piece gets caught on the teeth at the back of the saw
and the back edge of the piece rises, for all intents and purposes the
force acting on the wood is tangent to the circle of the saw blade.
The saw cannot exert any force to either side so I would assume that
the piece will rise from the table and the leading end will be kicked
upward and back in line with the blade. The piece will only travel
diagonally in the sense that it is moving up and back from the saw,
toward where an operator in-line with the blade will be standing.

I've had a few pieces of wood shoot across the shop, but only in line
with the blade.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

"Tim Douglass" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 18:57:09 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
wrote:

However people confuse ejection for kickback,
where kickback is generally far more dangerous. Ejection occurs when the
workpiece is ejected straight back due to the friction force between the
workpiece and the saw blade. Per Kelly Mehler in _The Table Saw Book_,
"kickback is caused by the tendency of the rising teeth at the rear of
the
blade to pick up the workpiece, catapulting it toward the operator at
speeds
approaching 100 miles per hour." When this happens "the workpiece is
hurtled diagonally backward toward the operator." If you're standing to
the
left of the blade, you're going to catch a kickback right in the gut.

I have never seen or heard of a saw actually kicking a piece in any
direction other than in line with the blade.

Then you've never witnessed kickback. I have. Count yourself lucky.
Fortunately for me, when I witnessed it, someone else was driving. Not
including the kickback demonstration Mr. Mehler did at a woodworking show I
attended a couple of years back.

Based on physics, I can
see a potential for the piece to perhaps move somewhat to one side or
the other depending on weight and contact with the fence, but for it
to be thrown so that it will hit an operator to the side seems
questionable.

Consider: The piece gets caught on the teeth at the back of the saw
and the back edge of the piece rises, for all intents and purposes the
force acting on the wood is tangent to the circle of the saw blade.
The saw cannot exert any force to either side so I would assume that
the piece will rise from the table and the leading end will be kicked
upward and back in line with the blade. The piece will only travel
diagonally in the sense that it is moving up and back from the saw,
toward where an operator in-line with the blade will be standing.

This would probably be true if the fence was not in the way. However, its
presence creates different forces than just the force of the blade against
the wood as the piece binds against the fence. If you were correct, the
mark the blade left in the workpiece in a true kickback would be a straight
line. However, many people that have had the misfortune to experience it
can show you a workpiece with a nice arc cut into it as the piece was shot
out diagonally.

todd

"jtpr" wrote in message
news:1096835894.eYlvSgVjg6IsV/Z5Ix8+Lw@teranews...

really thought about it. How do you guys do it? Which is safer/better?

Ever since I got the Grip-tite 2000 system (steel fence and two magnetic
featherboard-rollers), I use the same technique for ripping:

Stand to the left
Use my left hand to push wood against the fence lightly
Push board forward with my right hand finger tips.
Last couple of feet, I use a sacraficial push stick of the same thickness as
the board I am ripping.

I have not used any of my "official" push sticks since I got the grip-tites.

For small pieces I use a GRRRipper.

For cross cutting, I cheat. I use a sliding table. There is no substitute.

I strongly disagree with standing behind the blade. That's stupid. I got
hit on the chest by a kickback in college. I was really stupid then. The
university should have been sued for allowing me into the student woodshop
with no training at all.

Bob

Bob wrote:
[snip]

Stand to the left
Use my left hand to push wood against the fence lightly
Push board forward with my right hand finger tips.
Last couple of feet, I use a sacraficial push stick of the same
thickness as the board I am ripping.

[snip]

Same here but I use a push stick in my left hand and try to keep a push
stick in each hand at all times. I think the anti-kickback blades do their
job and the piece of wood has some kind of unsuspected twirl or grain
abnormality causes a great deal of harm to woodworkers.

Josie

I'm no expert, but I stand where you stand and do everything else the way
your brother in law does.

Lee

--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

"jtpr" wrote

: ...on your Table Saw? My brother in law was over last night and we were
: standing at my table saw discussing safety. He said he always stands in
: front of the piece of wood he is feeding into the table saw and feeds it
: through by holding his push stick on top of the wood between the blade and
: the fence. I said I always stand to the left of the blade and feed it
: through by holding the wood on the outside of the blade. He felt he had
: better control his way, I felt it was dangerous to stand directly behind
: it. We both use those long notched push sticks.
:
: Also, he cuts thin strips with the waste side between the fence and the
: blade. So if he wanted to rip a 1" piece off a 6" board, he would have
the
: 5" side between the fence and the blade. I do it in reverse. I never
: really thought about it. How do you guys do it? Which is safer/better?

Answers to both these questions can be found on my web site - Circular
Sawbench Safety - Feeding the Workpiece and also Fences.

Jeff G

--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
Email: username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.uk
www.amgron.clara.net

jtpr said:

... He said he always stands in front of the piece of wood ... and feeds it
through by holding his push stick on top of the wood... I said I always stand to the left...
...and feed it through by holding the wood on the outside... He felt he had
better control his way, I felt it was dangerous to stand directly behind
it. We both use those long notched push sticks....

And here I thought this was the beginning of yet another off-topic
porn thread...


Greg G.

I should have been clearer. The push stick you describe is the one be both
use. I have a really big orange one from Lee Valley that extends about 8"
over the wood, and a smaller yellow one from Sears that extends about 6". I
also have the other ones you describe but find I don't really use them for
much anymore.

--
-Jim
©¿©¬

If you want to reply by email its -- ryan at jimryan dot com
Please use BCC and lets all avoid spam
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"jtpr" wrote in message
news:1096835894.eYlvSgVjg6IsV/Z5Ix8+Lw@teranews...
.. I felt it was dangerous to stand directly behind
it. We both use those long notched push sticks.

It can be danerous. You are safer off to the left if something comes
flying
back.

I rarely use the ong pushstick you describe. Mine has a handle that I
traced from a hand saw and the top sits on the wood about 6". Very firm
to
grip and good pressure on the wood going through the blade.


Also, he cuts thin strips with the waste side between the fence and the
blade. So if he wanted to rip a 1" piece off a 6" board, he would have
the
5" side between the fence and the blade. I do it in reverse. I never
really thought about it. How do you guys do it? Which is safer/better?

I cut down to about 3/4" with the good part to the fence. Much narrower,
I'm not comfortable.

I made a block of wood with a screw head on the side. The block has a
strip
on the bottom and fits in the left miter slot. The screw is adjustable so
I
can measure from the blade to the position for a thin strip. That way I
can
move the fence in after every cut and get a consistent thin strip[ and not
have to measure each time.
--
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

Well, I had to get your attention SOME way...;+)

--
-Jim
©¿©¬

If you want to reply by email its -- ryan at jimryan dot com
Please use BCC and lets all avoid spam
Greg G. wrote in message
...
jtpr said:

... He said he always stands in front of the piece of wood ... and feeds
it
through by holding his push stick on top of the wood... I said I always
stand to the left...
...and feed it through by holding the wood on the outside... He felt he
had
better control his way, I felt it was dangerous to stand directly behind
it. We both use those long notched push sticks....

And here I thought this was the beginning of yet another off-topic
porn thread...


Greg G.

"firstjois" wrote in message
...
[snip]

Same here but I use a push stick in my left hand and try to keep a push
stick in each hand at all times. I think the anti-kickback blades do
their
job and the piece of wood has some kind of unsuspected twirl or grain
abnormality causes a great deal of harm to woodworkers.


For your future reference, the anti-kickback blades may be better than a
normal blade but they will not prevent all kick backs. The wood need not
engage the teeth of the blade to be kicked back. If the wood simply becomes
wedged between the side of the blade and "what ever" before it moves as far
as the back teeth of the blade it can still be picked up and thrown back at
you. So do not let your guard down.

Leon wrote:
"firstjois" wrote in message
...
[snip]

Same here but I use a push stick in my left hand and try to keep a
push stick in each hand at all times. I think the anti-kickback
blades do their
job and the piece of wood has some kind of unsuspected twirl or
grain abnormality causes a great deal of harm to woodworkers.


For your future reference, the anti-kickback blades may be better
than a normal blade but they will not prevent all kick backs. The
wood need not engage the teeth of the blade to be kicked back. If
the wood simply becomes wedged between the side of the blade and
"what ever" before it moves as far as the back teeth of the blade it
can still be picked up and thrown back at you. So do not let your
guard down.

Thank you, that is a good point!

Joise

"Tim Douglass" wrote in message
...

I have never seen or heard of a saw actually kicking a piece in any
direction other than in line with the blade. Based on physics, I can
see a potential for the piece to perhaps move somewhat to one side or
the other depending on weight and contact with the fence, but for it
to be thrown so that it will hit an operator to the side seems
questionable.

Consider: The piece gets caught on the teeth at the back of the saw
and the back edge of the piece rises, for all intents and purposes the
force acting on the wood is tangent to the circle of the saw blade.
The saw cannot exert any force to either side so I would assume that
the piece will rise from the table and the leading end will be kicked
upward and back in line with the blade. The piece will only travel
diagonally in the sense that it is moving up and back from the saw,
toward where an operator in-line with the blade will be standing.

I've had a few pieces of wood shoot across the shop, but only in line
with the blade.

Most kick backs do shoot back in line with the blade but not all. This
summer I was ripping a piece of 4'x 8' PT Lattice. I was cutting several
into to 2, 4x4 pieces. I was half way between the blade and the fence
which was set at 48" and my partner supported the other half that hung off
the left end of the saw. I got hit in the stomach by one of the small
pieces on the trailing edge as the cut was being completed. Normally the
kick back goes straight back because it is trapped between the fence and the
blade. In this case the short piece that hit me was on my side of the blade
and only had a couple of small staples holding it in place. Since this was
a short piece, it was not guided by the fence.

"jtpr" wrote in
news:1096835894.eYlvSgVjg6IsV/Z5Ix8+Lw@teranews:

Also, he cuts thin strips with the waste side between the fence and
the blade. So if he wanted to rip a 1" piece off a 6" board, he would
have the 5" side between the fence and the blade. I do it in reverse.
I never really thought about it. How do you guys do it? Which is
safer/better?

I dislike having a significantly wider piece on the outside of the
blade. It just feels funny as it's being pushed thru, especially
at the end of the cut (like it's trying to rotate away from the fence).
So if I was ripping several thin strips off a wide piece of stock,
I'd have the waste against the fence. If I was ripping it from stock
not much more than twice the width, I'd do it with the waste outside.

John

I taught myself to do the same thing, narrow repeated strips at same
time gets done with one rip fence setting then a LONG fence riding
push jig holds the front end down and pushes the end out of the way of
the blade. Biggest problem is transitioning from hand pushed long
piece to fence riding jig without burning some woods from the stall in
movement.

On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:00:56 -0400, "firstjois"
wrote:

John McCoy wrote:
"jtpr" wrote in
news:1096835894.eYlvSgVjg6IsV/Z5Ix8+Lw@teranews:

Also, he cuts thin strips with the waste side between the fence and
the blade. So if he wanted to rip a 1" piece off a 6" board, he
would have the 5" side between the fence and the blade. I do it in
reverse. I never really thought about it. How do you guys do it?
Which is safer/better?

I dislike having a significantly wider piece on the outside of the
blade. It just feels funny as it's being pushed thru, especially
at the end of the cut (like it's trying to rotate away from the
fence). So if I was ripping several thin strips off a wide piece of
stock,
I'd have the waste against the fence. If I was ripping it from stock
not much more than twice the width, I'd do it with the waste outside.

John

While I can visualize what you mean, I was taught to keep the best edge
against the fence, your way you are making a new edge every time and for
some reason that was frowned upon. Maybe because we were students???

Josie

John McCoy wrote:
"jtpr" wrote in
news:1096835894.eYlvSgVjg6IsV/Z5Ix8+Lw@teranews:

Also, he cuts thin strips with the waste side between the fence and
the blade. So if he wanted to rip a 1" piece off a 6" board, he
would have the 5" side between the fence and the blade. I do it in
reverse. I never really thought about it. How do you guys do it?
Which is safer/better?

I dislike having a significantly wider piece on the outside of the
blade. It just feels funny as it's being pushed thru, especially
at the end of the cut (like it's trying to rotate away from the
fence). So if I was ripping several thin strips off a wide piece of
stock,
I'd have the waste against the fence. If I was ripping it from stock
not much more than twice the width, I'd do it with the waste outside.

John

While I can visualize what you mean, I was taught to keep the best edge
against the fence, your way you are making a new edge every time and for
some reason that was frowned upon. Maybe because we were students???

Josie

"firstjois" wrote in message

John McCoy wrote:

I dislike having a significantly wider piece on the outside of the
blade. It just feels funny as it's being pushed thru, especially

While I can visualize what you mean, I was taught to keep the best edge
against the fence, your way you are making a new edge every time and for
some reason that was frowned upon. Maybe because we were students???

Certain operations on the table saw are a matter of comfort level for some,
and it always pays to stay within your particular comfort zone.

IME, there is nothing wrong, or inherently unsafe, with having the offcut
wider than the keeper piece as long as you can control the keeper piece
throughout the cut with a push device. Just don't go pushing the offcut
against the blade, or reaching over to move it out of the way before the
blade stops spinning.

I was taught (on two continents) to start these type cuts with both hands,
the left holding the piece against the fence, well in front of the blade,
then shifting control to the right hand, holding the push device, well
before the left hand gets in the danger zone ... then don't touch the offcut
until the blade stops.

In the interest of batch cutting precisely dimensioned parts, I routinely
rip 3/4" (and often 1/2") strips off of 6" - 8" stock with the keeper strip
between the blade and fence this way.

If it gets any smaller than that I use the butt end of a featherboard as a
stop, positioned in the miter slot to the left of, and well in front of, the
blade, and move the fence. For real thin strips (1/16 - 1/8'") you can often
measure the board and move the fence the appropriate amount, taking into
account the kerf, on each successive cut.

Then, as George wisely brought up, there's always the band saw.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/04/04

I agree with Todd.

No one ever got smacked by flying wood when using the saw correctly.
I have a few hard and fast rules.
A dull blade is a VERY DANGEROUS blade.
Always raise the blade at least 1" above the wood being ripped.
Notice I did not say dado, or cross-cutting!
Always use the right blade for the right job.
A dull blade is a VERY DANGEROUS blade.
Never rip anything shorter than 12"
Use shoe type push sticks when ripping short (24"), narrow pieces (3").
Never reach over the blade.
A dull blade is a VERY DANGEROUS blade.
Never remove the waste piece until saw is off. (Unless I can remove it from
behind.)
Never attempt to bat away a loose piece until saw is off.
I never have a spotter or helper pull the piece - get or build an out-feed
table.
A dull blade is a VERY DANGEROUS blade.
I also do not use thin kerf blades

I'm sure there are more but these are my top-ten (or so).

Dave


"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
...
"jtpr" wrote in message
news:1096835894.eYlvSgVjg6IsV/Z5Ix8+Lw@teranews...
...on your Table Saw? My brother in law was over last night and we were
standing at my table saw discussing safety. He said he always stands in
front of the piece of wood he is feeding into the table saw and feeds it
through by holding his push stick on top of the wood between the blade
and
the fence. I said I always stand to the left of the blade and feed it
through by holding the wood on the outside of the blade. He felt he had
better control his way, I felt it was dangerous to stand directly behind
it. We both use those long notched push sticks.

Also, he cuts thin strips with the waste side between the fence and the
blade. So if he wanted to rip a 1" piece off a 6" board, he would have
the
5" side between the fence and the blade. I do it in reverse. I never
really thought about it. How do you guys do it? Which is safer/better?

--
--Jim

I take my cues from both reading and watching Kelly Mehler, who has
written
books on table saw use and is a strong proponent of table saw safety. He
defines the major risks to using a table saw as a) kickback, b) ejection,
and c) laceration. Lacertation is easy to understand: don't use your
flesh
as a substitute for wood. However people confuse ejection for kickback,
where kickback is generally far more dangerous. Ejection occurs when the
workpiece is ejected straight back due to the friction force between the
workpiece and the saw blade. Per Kelly Mehler in _The Table Saw Book_,
"kickback is caused by the tendency of the rising teeth at the rear of the
blade to pick up the workpiece, catapulting it toward the operator at
speeds
approaching 100 miles per hour." When this happens "the workpiece is
hurtled diagonally backward toward the operator." If you're standing to
the
left of the blade, you're going to catch a kickback right in the gut.
Kelly
states that the most common table saw accident by far is kickback. The
only
way to completely eliminate the risk of kickback is to use a properly
adjusted splitter or riving knife. If you don't have that, keeping the
piece firmly against the fence and using a shoe-type pusher will help.
With
that in mind, use a cross-cut sled when you can.

For narrow cutoffs, I do it the way your BIL does. If the cutoff is
particularly narrow, I make sure to use a zero-clearance insert.

todd

On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:38:16 -0400, "jtpr" wrote:

...on your Table Saw? My brother in law was over last night and we were
standing at my table saw discussing safety. He said he always stands in
front of the piece of wood he is feeding into the table saw and feeds it
through by holding his push stick on top of the wood between the blade and
the fence. I said I always stand to the left of the blade and feed it
through by holding the wood on the outside of the blade. He felt he had
better control his way, I felt it was dangerous to stand directly behind
it. We both use those long notched push sticks.

Also, he cuts thin strips with the waste side between the fence and the
blade. So if he wanted to rip a 1" piece off a 6" board, he would have the
5" side between the fence and the blade. I do it in reverse. I never
really thought about it. How do you guys do it? Which is safer/better?

I use a Sears rig I found buried by the router bushings when poking
around their tool section. It's a yellow composite thing that rides
over the fence and has a some notches on it to hold down various sizes
of wood. It also has some settings to allow you to cut at 45 degrees
in either direction, and can be used as a tenon jig (though I've not
tried out the tenoning aspect of it.

As far as cutting thin strips goes, if they are under 1", I use your
brother's method- if they are any larger, I use yours, only I still
hold the piece between the fence and the blade, because of the way the
tool I mentioned above is set up. However, I Never, Ever, Ever stand
directly behind the wood. I got hit with kickback from a piece of
that cheap phillipine mahogany plywood right in the solar plexas once,
and I don't want to repeat that experience ever again. It's the only
time I've ever had anything cause a black line across my entire body,
and I spent days worried that I had ruptured some organs. Kind of
ruins the joy of woodworking if you bust yourself up doing it, IMO.

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 19:36:22 -0700, Tim Douglass
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 18:57:09 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
wrote:

However people confuse ejection for kickback,
where kickback is generally far more dangerous. Ejection occurs when the
workpiece is ejected straight back due to the friction force between the
workpiece and the saw blade. Per Kelly Mehler in _The Table Saw Book_,
"kickback is caused by the tendency of the rising teeth at the rear of the
blade to pick up the workpiece, catapulting it toward the operator at speeds
approaching 100 miles per hour." When this happens "the workpiece is
hurtled diagonally backward toward the operator." If you're standing to the
left of the blade, you're going to catch a kickback right in the gut.

I have never seen or heard of a saw actually kicking a piece in any
direction other than in line with the blade. Based on physics, I can
see a potential for the piece to perhaps move somewhat to one side or
the other depending on weight and contact with the fence, but for it
to be thrown so that it will hit an operator to the side seems
questionable.

I got whacked with a 2.5" x 2.5" x .75" piece of maple when
crosscutting, but I was stupidly using the fence as a spacer in
conjunction with my miter gauge. I did hit me when I was standing on
the left, but it was nowhere near as bad as kickback that shoots in
line with the blade. The gouge on the back of the wood was curved, so
it must have caught the fence somehow.

Consider: The piece gets caught on the teeth at the back of the saw
and the back edge of the piece rises, for all intents and purposes the
force acting on the wood is tangent to the circle of the saw blade.
The saw cannot exert any force to either side so I would assume that
the piece will rise from the table and the leading end will be kicked
upward and back in line with the blade. The piece will only travel
diagonally in the sense that it is moving up and back from the saw,
toward where an operator in-line with the blade will be standing.

I've had a few pieces of wood shoot across the shop, but only in line
with the blade.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

I'm a little surprised that nobody has mentioned using
a horizontal featherboard while ripping.

Mount the featherboard so as to press the stock against
the fence. Position the featherboard an inch or so in front
of the blade (never position it so that it is at or overlapping
the blade). Standing to the right of the blade, I use one push
stick to feed the stock and another push stick to hold the stock
down. In this way no part of my body is ever in line with the
blade and neither hand nor push stick is pushing in line with
the blade.

Whenever possible I also use a vertically mounted
featherboard (easy to do if you have a high auxiliary fence)
to hold the stock down against the table.

--Billy

"jtpr" wrote in message
news:1096835894.eYlvSgVjg6IsV/Z5Ix8+Lw@teranews...
...on your Table Saw? My brother in law was over last night and we were
standing at my table saw discussing safety. He said he always stands in
front of the piece of wood he is feeding into the table saw and feeds it
through by holding his push stick on top of the wood between the blade and
the fence. I said I always stand to the left of the blade and feed it
through by holding the wood on the outside of the blade. He felt he had
better control his way, I felt it was dangerous to stand directly behind
it. We both use those long notched push sticks.

Also, he cuts thin strips with the waste side between the fence and the
blade. So if he wanted to rip a 1" piece off a 6" board, he would have
the
5" side between the fence and the blade. I do it in reverse. I never
really thought about it. How do you guys do it? Which is safer/better?

--
--Jim
©¿©¬

Billy,

I think I like the sound of this. I kind of do it the same way, but I stand
to the left and push on the wood that is outside the blade using both a
horizontal featherboard and a vertical one. But the more I think about it I
would probably have more control pushing the wood between the fence and
blade. My only problem here is I would have to stand to the right so as to
not reach over the blade, and I am right handed. If I stand to the right I
would have to use my left hand to push. I'll try it tonight and see how it
feels.

--
-Jim
©¿©¬

If you want to reply by email its -- ryan at jimryan dot com
Please use BCC and lets all avoid spam
"Billy Smith" wrote in message
...
I'm a little surprised that nobody has mentioned using
a horizontal featherboard while ripping.

Mount the featherboard so as to press the stock against
the fence. Position the featherboard an inch or so in front
of the blade (never position it so that it is at or overlapping
the blade). Standing to the right of the blade, I use one push
stick to feed the stock and another push stick to hold the stock
down. In this way no part of my body is ever in line with the
blade and neither hand nor push stick is pushing in line with
the blade.

Whenever possible I also use a vertically mounted
featherboard (easy to do if you have a high auxiliary fence)
to hold the stock down against the table.

--Billy

"jtpr" wrote in message
news:1096835894.eYlvSgVjg6IsV/Z5Ix8+Lw@teranews...
...on your Table Saw? My brother in law was over last night and we were
standing at my table saw discussing safety. He said he always stands in
front of the piece of wood he is feeding into the table saw and feeds it
through by holding his push stick on top of the wood between the blade
and
the fence. I said I always stand to the left of the blade and feed it
through by holding the wood on the outside of the blade. He felt he had
better control his way, I felt it was dangerous to stand directly
behind
it. We both use those long notched push sticks.

Also, he cuts thin strips with the waste side between the fence and the
blade. So if he wanted to rip a 1" piece off a 6" board, he would have
the
5" side between the fence and the blade. I do it in reverse. I never
really thought about it. How do you guys do it? Which is safer/better?

--
--Jim
©¿©¬

On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:11:32 -0400, "Billy Smith"
wrote:

I'm a little surprised that nobody has mentioned using
a horizontal featherboard while ripping.

You always forget something! I do have a couple of shop-made
featherboards, and use them about 75% of the time when ripping. Not
everything will fit into the adjustment range, so they sometimes get
left off.

Mount the featherboard so as to press the stock against
the fence. Position the featherboard an inch or so in front
of the blade (never position it so that it is at or overlapping
the blade). Standing to the right of the blade, I use one push
stick to feed the stock and another push stick to hold the stock
down. In this way no part of my body is ever in line with the
blade and neither hand nor push stick is pushing in line with
the blade.

Whenever possible I also use a vertically mounted
featherboard (easy to do if you have a high auxiliary fence)
to hold the stock down against the table.

--Billy

"jtpr" wrote in message
news:1096835894.eYlvSgVjg6IsV/Z5Ix8+Lw@teranews...
...on your Table Saw? My brother in law was over last night and we were
standing at my table saw discussing safety. He said he always stands in
front of the piece of wood he is feeding into the table saw and feeds it
through by holding his push stick on top of the wood between the blade and
the fence. I said I always stand to the left of the blade and feed it
through by holding the wood on the outside of the blade. He felt he had
better control his way, I felt it was dangerous to stand directly behind
it. We both use those long notched push sticks.

Also, he cuts thin strips with the waste side between the fence and the
blade. So if he wanted to rip a 1" piece off a 6" board, he would have
the
5" side between the fence and the blade. I do it in reverse. I never
really thought about it. How do you guys do it? Which is safer/better?

--
--Jim
©¿©¬