[Greg Guarino[_2_]]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/

At my stage of woodworking, I suppose I could say that I had to check to
see that everything would fit properly, and that's true to an extent.
But I dry-fit all these parts mostly to z9finally) see if it was going
to look the way I had imagined when I was cutting and shaping all of the
pieces and drilling the hundreds of dowel holes.

Anyone else do that? Or are you all such disciplined veterans of your
craft that you can delay the gratification until later on?

I only put in about half of the dowels in for the dry fit. Now I'll
disassemble everything and start sanding.

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[Mike Marlow[_2_]]

Greg Guarino wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/

At my stage of woodworking, I suppose I could say that I had to check
to see that everything would fit properly, and that's true to an extent.
But I dry-fit all these parts mostly to z9finally) see if it was going
to look the way I had imagined when I was cutting and shaping all of
the pieces and drilling the hundreds of dowel holes.

Anyone else do that? Or are you all such disciplined veterans of your
craft that you can delay the gratification until later on?

I only put in about half of the dowels in for the dry fit. Now I'll
disassemble everything and start sanding.


Greg - what is "z9finally)?

--

-Mike-

[Bob La Londe[_7_]]

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
Greg Guarino wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/

At my stage of woodworking, I suppose I could say that I had to check
to see that everything would fit properly, and that's true to an extent.
But I dry-fit all these parts mostly to z9finally) see if it was going
to look the way I had imagined when I was cutting and shaping all of
the pieces and drilling the hundreds of dowel holes.

Anyone else do that? Or are you all such disciplined veterans of your
craft that you can delay the gratification until later on?

I only put in about half of the dowels in for the dry fit. Now I'll
disassemble everything and start sanding.


Greg - what is "z9finally)?

I thought It was something to make trolls ask questions, but I didn't want
to ask. LOL

[Leon[_7_]]

On 6/7/2014 6:17 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/

At my stage of woodworking, I suppose I could say that I had to check
to see that everything would fit properly, and that's true to an extent.
But I dry-fit all these parts mostly to z9finally) see if it was going
to look the way I had imagined when I was cutting and shaping all of
the pieces and drilling the hundreds of dowel holes.

Anyone else do that? Or are you all such disciplined veterans of your
craft that you can delay the gratification until later on?

I only put in about half of the dowels in for the dry fit. Now I'll
disassemble everything and start sanding.


Greg - what is "z9finally)?



It is the last version of the Z7 additive that came in Pennzoil.

[Greg Guarino[_2_]]

On 6/7/2014 7:17 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/

At my stage of woodworking, I suppose I could say that I had to check
to see that everything would fit properly, and that's true to an extent.
But I dry-fit all these parts mostly to z9finally) see if it was going
to look the way I had imagined when I was cutting and shaping all of
the pieces and drilling the hundreds of dowel holes.

Anyone else do that? Or are you all such disciplined veterans of your
craft that you can delay the gratification until later on?

I only put in about half of the dowels in for the dry fit. Now I'll
disassemble everything and start sanding.


Greg - what is "z9finally)?

Your guess is as good as mine. It was just supposed to read "(finally)"



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[dadiOH[_3_]]

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message

Greg Guarino wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/

At my stage of woodworking, I suppose I could say that I had to check
to see that everything would fit properly, and that's true to an extent.
But I dry-fit all these parts mostly to z9finally) see if it was going
to look the way I had imagined when I was cutting and shaping all of
the pieces and drilling the hundreds of dowel holes.

Anyone else do that? Or are you all such disciplined veterans of your
craft that you can delay the gratification until later on?

I only put in about half of the dowels in for the dry fit. Now I'll
disassemble everything and start sanding.


Greg - what is "z9finally)?

Best guess: it was supposed to be SHIFT 9

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[Swingman]

On 6/7/2014 5:23 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Anyone else do that?

Always ... and time the dry fit as well. The more parts, the more time
it takes, and the more important the dry fit.

It allows you to to insure alignment of parts; the possible need for any
sub-assembly glue-ups; the time it will take to stay within the "open
time" of the glue; identify any trouble areas that may require
more/different clamps/techniques, and how many; and, most importantly,
determine the sequence of events of the operation in order to insure
that you can indeed attach the horse to the cart, in the proper order,
and all within that open time.

Besides, if I drew it up in SketchUp, I already know exactly what it is
going to look like.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

[Greg Guarino[_2_]]

On 6/8/2014 8:09 AM, Swingman wrote: On 6/7/2014 5:23 PM, Greg Guarino
wrote:

Anyone else do that?

Always ... and time the dry fit as well. The more parts, the more time
it takes, and the more important the dry fit.

It allows you to to insure alignment of parts; the possible need for any
sub-assembly glue-ups; the time it will take to stay within the "open
time" of the glue; identify any trouble areas that may require
more/different clamps/techniques, and how many; and, most importantly,
determine the sequence of events of the operation in order to insure
that you can indeed attach the horse to the cart, in the proper order,
and all within that open time.

I've been thinking about that. I figure that I'll glue up the "ladders"
first and apply glue to four of the (10) horizontal pieces (the curved
top and bottom plus two of the "rungs"). When I dry-fit the first
"ladder" a few weeks ago I made the mistake of putting all of the dowels
in. It was a little difficult to get it apart even with no glue in the
joints. So there's probably no sane reason to glue them all; just enough
to prevent the piece from "racking" .

While the most obvious way to do the assembly would be to glue up each
of the four "faces" of the units and then attach the faces to each
other, I've been tossing around another idea in my head.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14372546854/

I think this would make the final assembly easier. (note: the bottom
shelf and the front and rear bottom rails would not be pre-assembled).
I'm thinking of putting in strips of quarter-round - attached to the
ladders - underneath the shelves to guide the shelves to their proper
locations during the assembly. I'll probably fasten the shelves with
pocket screws afterward.

Besides, if I drew it up in SketchUp, I already know exactly what it is
going to look like.

I did draw it, and (thankfully) the solid article looks remarkably like
the drawing, but many times more satisfying.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...57644207411490

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...57644207411490

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...57644207411490


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[Greg Guarino[_2_]]

On 6/8/2014 7:54 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message

Greg Guarino wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/

At my stage of woodworking, I suppose I could say that I had to check
to see that everything would fit properly, and that's true to an extent.
But I dry-fit all these parts mostly to z9finally) see if it was going
to look the way I had imagined when I was cutting and shaping all of
the pieces and drilling the hundreds of dowel holes.

Anyone else do that? Or are you all such disciplined veterans of your
craft that you can delay the gratification until later on?

I only put in about half of the dowels in for the dry fit. Now I'll
disassemble everything and start sanding.


Greg - what is "z9finally)?

Best guess: it was supposed to be SHIFT 9

Yup. That was it. My junior high school ("middle school" for you
young'uns) typing teacher (yes, they taught typing then) was really
ticked off when she found out I played the piano. But really, facility
in one hardly predicts skill in the other.

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[Swingman]

On 6/8/2014 8:06 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
I've been thinking about that. I figure that I'll glue up the "ladders"
first and apply glue to four of the (10) horizontal pieces (the curved
top and bottom plus two of the "rungs"). When I dry-fit the first
"ladder" a few weeks ago I made the mistake of putting all of the dowels
in. It was a little difficult to get it apart even with no glue in the
joints. So there's probably no sane reason to glue them all; just enough
to prevent the piece from "racking" .


In A&C and Mission furniture it is very common to see the "slats", which
are much like your ladder rungs, and appear to perform same, non
structural function, to "float" instead of being glued.

The top and bottom "rails" obviously need to be.

While the most obvious way to do the assembly would be to glue up each
of the four "faces" of the units and then attach the faces to each
other, I've been tossing around another idea in my head.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14372546854/

I think this would make the final assembly easier. (note: the bottom
shelf and the front and rear bottom rails would not be pre-assembled).
I'm thinking of putting in strips of quarter-round - attached to the
ladders - underneath the shelves to guide the shelves to their proper
locations during the assembly. I'll probably fasten the shelves with
pocket screws afterward.

That appears to be pretty much the way I would approach it.

An important tip on gluing up sub-assemblies, if you don't always
practice it:

In most cases on a project that requires a sub-assembly to be glued up
in advance, it is, IME, _very important_ to do a _complete_ "dry fit"
_with clamps_ of ALL the other components, along with the glue-up of the
sub-assembly.

This insures that when you do the final glue-up, that now 'cast in
stone/glue' sub-assembly will be in perfect alignment with the rest of
the parts.

This is particular important in those project that must stand "four
square", or maintain that holy grail of "square" that insures other
operations, like mounting doors and drawers, go smoothly.

Clamping pressure during glue-up can seriously affect alignment of parts
and the "square" of the final assembly, so take that to heart.

Looking good ... good execution of well thought out plan always provides
satisfaction, and sometimes even a bit of profit.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

[Swingman]

On 6/7/2014 5:23 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/

At my stage of woodworking, I suppose I could say that I had to check to
see that everything would fit properly, and that's true to an extent.
But I dry-fit all these parts mostly to z9finally) see if it was going
to look the way I had imagined when I was cutting and shaping all of the
pieces and drilling the hundreds of dowel holes.

Anyone else do that? Or are you all such disciplined veterans of your
craft that you can delay the gratification until later on?

I only put in about half of the dowels in for the dry fit. Now I'll
disassemble everything and start sanding.

This project incorporated many of the methods we have discussed on your
recent project: from pattern routing, to dry fitting, to glue-up of
sub-assemblies, which in chair making is a necessity:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...oredirect=1 #

And, note the use of the method of fairing a curve that you recently
"discovered" he

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...14609524501074




--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

[Mike Marlow[_2_]]

Greg Guarino wrote:


Best guess: it was supposed to be SHIFT 9

Yup. That was it. My junior high school ("middle school" for you
young'uns) typing teacher (yes, they taught typing then) was really
ticked off when she found out I played the piano. But really, facility
in one hardly predicts skill in the other.


Phew! I thought it was some new net-lingo that I'd missed... again...

--

-Mike-

[Greg Guarino[_2_]]

On 6/8/2014 9:45 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 6/8/2014 8:06 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
I've been thinking about that. I figure that I'll glue up the "ladders"
first and apply glue to four of the (10) horizontal pieces (the curved
top and bottom plus two of the "rungs"). When I dry-fit the first
"ladder" a few weeks ago I made the mistake of putting all of the dowels
in. It was a little difficult to get it apart even with no glue in the
joints. So there's probably no sane reason to glue them all; just enough
to prevent the piece from "racking" .


In A&C and Mission furniture it is very common to see the "slats", which
are much like your ladder rungs, and appear to perform same, non
structural function, to "float" instead of being glued.

The top and bottom "rails" obviously need to be.

While the most obvious way to do the assembly would be to glue up each
of the four "faces" of the units and then attach the faces to each
other, I've been tossing around another idea in my head.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14372546854/

I think this would make the final assembly easier. (note: the bottom
shelf and the front and rear bottom rails would not be pre-assembled).
I'm thinking of putting in strips of quarter-round - attached to the
ladders - underneath the shelves to guide the shelves to their proper
locations during the assembly. I'll probably fasten the shelves with
pocket screws afterward.

That appears to be pretty much the way I would approach it.

An important tip on gluing up sub-assemblies, if you don't always
practice it:

In most cases on a project that requires a sub-assembly to be glued up
in advance, it is, IME, _very important_ to do a _complete_ "dry fit"
_with clamps_ of ALL the other components, along with the glue-up of the
sub-assembly.

I would not have thought to do that. My plan was to glue up the ladders
back-down on a flat surface with a two-sided square corner "jig" to line
them up. In fact, as I'll be building four identical ladders, I could
even make a gluing jig with all four corners. Then when I assemble the
whole unit, I'd use the shelves to get the whole unit square, and a flat
surface to get the legs to be level.

This insures that when you do the final glue-up, that now 'cast in
stone/glue' sub-assembly will be in perfect alignment with the rest of
the parts.

I can see how that would help insure success. It sounds less convenient
though.

This is particular important in those project that must stand "four
square", or maintain that holy grail of "square" that insures other
operations, like mounting doors and drawers, go smoothly.

Clamping pressure during glue-up can seriously affect alignment of parts
and the "square" of the final assembly, so take that to heart.

Looking good ... good execution of well thought out plan always provides
satisfaction, and sometimes even a bit of profit.



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[Swingman]

On 6/8/2014 9:54 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
I would not have thought to do that. My plan was to glue up the ladders
back-down on a flat surface with a two-sided square corner "jig" to line
them up. In fact, as I'll be building four identical ladders, I could
even make a gluing jig with all four corners. Then when I assemble the
whole unit, I'd use the shelves to get the whole unit square, and a flat
surface to get the legs to be level.

I can see how that would help insure success. It sounds less
convenient though.

Yep, like this, when it is not convenient:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...85679 9057458

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...76286 2018514

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...74780 1158162


--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

[Greg Guarino[_2_]]

On 6/8/2014 10:00 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 6/7/2014 5:23 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/

At my stage of woodworking, I suppose I could say that I had to check to
see that everything would fit properly, and that's true to an extent.
But I dry-fit all these parts mostly to z9finally) see if it was going
to look the way I had imagined when I was cutting and shaping all of the
pieces and drilling the hundreds of dowel holes.

Anyone else do that? Or are you all such disciplined veterans of your
craft that you can delay the gratification until later on?

I only put in about half of the dowels in for the dry fit. Now I'll
disassemble everything and start sanding.

This project incorporated many of the methods we have discussed on your
recent project: from pattern routing, to dry fitting, to glue-up of
sub-assemblies, which in chair making is a necessity:

No accident there. I'm like a kid who has recently discovered how to
make purple with red and blue paint. Purple is sure to crop up in my
next few "works". The curved rails are owe their existence to my recent
(and surprisingly smooth) successes with pattern routing. The "palette"
expands a little with each project.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...oredirect=1 #

Of all the things I may someday try, chairs look the most daunting. Of
course, had I seen my current project in a woodworking magazine even a
year ago, I'd probably have skipped over it as beyond my abilities. And
I may have been right ... at the time.

And, note the use of the method of fairing a curve that you recently
"discovered" he

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...14609524501074


I discover something old almost every day. I'm thinking of grinding the
threads off some screws so I can simply pound them in.



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[Greg Guarino[_2_]]

On 6/8/2014 11:19 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 6/8/2014 9:54 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Yep, like this, when it is not convenient:

I'm glad you linked to those photos. I had an idea that was like this:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...80265615571346

.... in a hazy sort of way, but your setup has helped clarify it. I think
I will be using a variation on that idea.


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