On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:35:08 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 8:00:16 PM UTC-5, wrote:


Rain is a given this time of year. When you say that rain will ruin
it, do you mean if it's submerged or if it just gets (good and) wet?
If it's hanging on the wall, will a good rain ruin it?

No. If it is hung on the wall with rain draining off it, you can paint it after about 10 days of drying if completely soaked. But if just a good sprinkle, usually when it looks dry it is ready to go.

OK, that makes sense.

I was trying to hit the point that the lumberyards/suppliers stack it horizontally in open weather most of the time, and when rained on repeatedly, it can sustain irreparable damage.

Gotcha. Even HD and Lowes store it inside here. I'll probably end up
buying it at HD. It seems they have Festool pricing, so there isn't
much sense in going out of the way.

https://goo.gl/wCKCfG

Regardless, with primer only you can paint with confidence if you have warm, dry weather for 30 days after you hang it when it has been wet. The same porosity that causes absorption allows it to dry out well. As a matter of fact, if I install during our more iffy weather season, I put it up, wait two week/ten days then paint knowing it could have caught some water at the material yard.

30 days is a rather long dry spell to arrange. ;-)

Depending on the time of year, here, too.

It would be nice to have a helper but this is a solo project.


Then if that was me, I would separate the tasks depending on the availability of room. I would paint as much as possible as the cleanup time required (dictated on the material painted)for the rollers, brushes, paint stirrer (mine is always on a drill), etc., takes much longer than simply pulling in the compressor and rolling up the cords at the end if the day. I wouldn't want to clean paint equipment more than twice a day.

OK. You're suggesting that I paint as much as possible to do in a day
(given space), then hang the next? Repeat...

-OR-'

Paint it all - as many days as needed, then hang?

Either way, I'm worried about the stuff sticking together. I know you
said to sticker it but the stuff is like noodles to that's a *lot* of
stickers.

If you are hanging the long pieces by yourself, make a "J" shaped hanger to attach to the farthest stud you siding will reach to hold the other side of the material until you work your way to it. If you make it right, you can screw it to the stud at the joint, then when you are about 4' away, you can swivel it on the screw to swing it out of your way before you nail.

I've already bought a set of Gecko gauges.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000AQKA2/ref=sr_ph_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1493341992&sr=sr-1&keywords=gecko+gauge

To see how to do a proper butt joint, check this guy out. He (no pun intended...) nails it perfectly, except for the fact he uses galvanized steel. You can also see that it is stiff enough to mess up the piece that lays over the butt, too. Important to note that while me didn't use a nail and relied on friction to hold the metal in place, the next course wound up with a nail in the flashing to make sure it stayed in place.

Am I missing a link?

Ooops....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcw-9SfSxzo&t=205s

I still can't believe he uses galvanized metal, for all the reasons described above. Technique, great. Materials used, fail.

He also says to caulk the joint. The failed boards are done just like
that (except no flashing) but the caulk failed long ago. Hardie
recommends against caulk too. With the flashing behind it, is it
needed?

The idea of the construction glue, or whatever it was, holding the
bottom of the board is a keeper, too. That's another reason I'm
replacing mine. The bottoms are loose, particularly near the joints.
The boards are cracked around the nails. This way, there's no need
for nails below the lap.

It was interesting to note that the "butt" joints weren't butted up
against each other. Makes sense, given that the stuff absorbs water.
It also points out how smart your spray can idea is, too. Spray paint
can be mixed to match any color can paint can. I have no idea what it
costs, though.



It's not that big. I've done that much cedar, though I was a few
years younger. ;-)

I do a lot of physical labor during my normal course of work from time to time, and my goodness... what a difference 40 years makes on the old frame.

Well, none of us are getting younger but I think I can still climb a
ladder. SWMBO freaked when I threatened to paint the other sides
(three stories in some places).

Sure, I'll try to remember.

--Keith

Hope so! A smaller amount of siding than your project, say an entryway or storage room is a doable project for some handy guys and DIY folks. Pictures of your work might be worth a thousand explanations, even if there are few replies.

This is a pretty simple installation. It's at most 16' high, and much
of it half that. It's one side and no gables.

I'll make a point of taking pictures. Thanks again for all you help
(I'm sure I'll be back for more). The least I can do is take a few
pictures. ;-) Just gotta find a place for them.

On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 8:51:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:

OK. You're suggesting that I paint as much as possible to do in a day
(given space), then hang the next? Repeat...

The whole project is too much to paint and sticker. Even with a herd of saw horses, I don't do that. I just try to anticipate how much I can put up in a day. Paint at the end of the day, let it dry for several hours overnight, then the batch is ready to go first thing in the morning. Then each day of installation you can anticipate how much you will need for the following day and knock off the installation an hour early, pack the installation tools up, paint, clean your rollers, and you are done, ready for the next day.

Switching tasks is a time killer.


I've already bought a set of Gecko gauges.

Nice. Pretty high tech!

He also says to caulk the joint. The failed boards are done just like
that (except no flashing) but the caulk failed long ago. Hardie
recommends against caulk too. With the flashing behind it, is it
needed?

If you have a pretty close joint, planks in contact about half of the exposed facing after butting, then probably not.

But, welcome to the great debate. As noted earlier, Hardie has flip/flopped on this more than once. This latest installation pdf

http://www.jameshardiepros.com/James...hz10-us-en.pdf

that is the newest on the "pro" site, is from May 2016. Less than a year old. It clearly shows on their little graphic the word "caulking" used in the install details, the caveat in parenthesis is that you don't use caulking on ColorPlus (prefinished) product. The same installation bulletin also details on page 3 what kind of caulk to use, with a warning of application for one brand. A call to Hardie is not that helpful; they advise to caulk as needed, and now they advise on their installation differently in different climate zones.

Note too in that publication, that different from earlier versions that it does NOT recommend a space at the joints for caulking, but uses the chicken**** ambiguity of "install planks in moderate contact at butt joints". What is moderate contact?

Over the years, they have gone from requiring an 1/8" between the joints for caulking to as "as needed" policy. They use further weasel language to relieve themselves of some of the "caulk/no caulk" problem by warning to follow local building codes and lcally acceptable installation procedures. That way if the siding leaks they are covered at least in some instances. If your local ordinance or FHA/VA requires caulking and you don't, then Hardie voids that section of your warranty. If you caulk and it isn't required (merely suggested) and caulk fails, it is on the installer/you.

Over the years, with no clear guidance and no specification for the caulking, People used painter's caulks, silicone caulks, etc., all completely wrong for this application. Also, without adequate specification for the storage of this material at the yard, we go this stuff wet and it shrank a lot. Compounding that, latex materials don't stick well to wet products so although it looked good, the caulk didn't stick.

I am back to what I used to do and didn't have any failures. I have had to renail a couple of planks on the first job I did, but that is because I didn't understand how crucial it was to follow the nailing instructions. Changing my pneumatic nailer to a roofing nailer (since I always blind nail), fixed the spalling problem. What I do different now is to add the aluminum strip as flashing with a colored stripe down the middle, and add a small dollop, say marble size) of glue at the joints. I have a box of stainless nails that I used on rare occasion on a facing where a wall dips or bulges and the planking won't draw up tight.

So at the butts, I put up my metal flashing with the "next nearest color stripe" on it, put a small dollop of adhesive just OUTSIDE the flashing (far enough away that the glue won't touch the flashing when compressed), put up the siding (factory to factory edge only) until the touch, then nail it. If it is closed, I don't caulk. If it isn't, I will apply a good quality solvent based elastomeric caulk.

The idea of the construction glue, or whatever it was, holding the
bottom of the board is a keeper, too. That's another reason I'm
replacing mine. The bottoms are loose, particularly near the joints.
The boards are cracked around the nails. This way, there's no need
for nails below the lap.

That isn't a Hardie detail, but an installer detail. Half the size of a Hershey's kiss on each side is all you need, and a tube of PL400 will last for a few days. CHEAP insurance. While all the Hardie moves on the walls after installation, the joints are the weak points. And if you spall the backside accidentally, most of the time you don't know, and the damage manifests itself in the way you are seeing.

It was interesting to note that the "butt" joints weren't butted up
against each other. Makes sense, given that the stuff absorbs water.
It also points out how smart your spray can idea is, too. Spray paint
can be mixed to match any color can paint can. I have no idea what it
costs, though.

Krylon makes a rainbow of colors these days, so remember that IF the flashing in your joint is seen, it will be about 1/8" at most. My experience is that joints of well painted material don't open more than that. No need to have specially made paint for a sliver of aluminum that is back in the shadows with no immediately adjacent color to match with little light to get to it except morning and evening when the sun is more horizontal. If it is close, no one will see it. If it isn't, buy your paint early, cut the flashing and slather a paintbrush size stripe on the pieces and you have an exact match.

Robert