On Sat, 38 Mar 1436 28:29:30 +03000 (UTC) wrote:

Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?

i think it is an amc pacer

Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?


i think it is an amc pacer



Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.
John T.

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 17:42:47 -0400
wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 14:46:41 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 17:42:47 -0400
wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price





I used to own one, and you'd be surprised how comfortable they were. A
whole lot MORE comfortable with A/C, mind you!! The greenhouse had
more glass than a '61 new yorker station wagon!!!
We actually rallied the "fishbowl" a couple times early in our first
season while we were "getting the kinks out of" the R12.. The K frame
made a pretty good road grader, from what I remember!!! The 232 was a
bit weak for a car of that heft - the 258 was better - the 304 was too
heavy.

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 14:46:41 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 17:42:47 -0400
wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:09:35 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 14:46:41 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 17:42:47 -0400
wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:50:05 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:09:35 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 14:46:41 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 17:42:47 -0400
wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!

Ours was a 232 but the engine was the only part of the car that didn't
have a problem. Everything from the alternator to the window frames
broke in the first few months. The dash was warped so badly that the
glove box door wouldn't close properly. The brakes were crap, as was
the clutch, drive shaft, and pretty much everything else. The only
thing worse than the car was the dealer and the manufacturer. Pure
junk.

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:11:26 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:50:05 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:09:35 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 14:46:41 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 17:42:47 -0400
wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!

Ours was a 232 but the engine was the only part of the car that didn't
have a problem. Everything from the alternator to the window frames
broke in the first few months. The dash was warped so badly that the
glove box door wouldn't close properly. The brakes were crap, as was
the clutch, drive shaft, and pretty much everything else. The only
thing worse than the car was the dealer and the manufacturer. Pure
junk.
I'd say your dealer was your biggest problem. The ones that had the
prestolite alternators did have some regulator problems. AMC actually
made some pretty good stuff.

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:11:26 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:50:05 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:09:35 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 14:46:41 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 17:42:47 -0400
wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!

Ours was a 232 but the engine was the only part of the car that didn't
have a problem. Everything from the alternator to the window frames
broke in the first few months. The dash was warped so badly that the
glove box door wouldn't close properly. The brakes were crap, as was
the clutch, drive shaft, and pretty much everything else. The only
thing worse than the car was the dealer and the manufacturer. Pure
junk.
I'd say your dealer was your biggest problem. The ones that had the
prestolite alternators did have some regulator problems. AMC actually
made some pretty good stuff.

The original electrical problem was in the brushes. One was sheared
clean off somehow. It took everything else with it. The dealer
blamed it on someone shorting a spark plug, of all asinine arguments
to not fix it. Oh, and I forgot the extra nut in the front brake
*drum*. It really chewed the crap out of the brake when it broke
loose. Of course the dealer AND AMC wouldn't believe the nut did the
damage. It didn't. All the rest of the stuff it knocked loose (self
adjusting stuff) did the damage. Yes, the dealer sucked but AMC
wasn't any better and the car was absolute crap. It didn't last three
years and the problem wasn't rust.

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:24:42 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:11:26 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:50:05 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:09:35 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 14:46:41 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 17:42:47 -0400
wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!

Ours was a 232 but the engine was the only part of the car that didn't
have a problem. Everything from the alternator to the window frames
broke in the first few months. The dash was warped so badly that the
glove box door wouldn't close properly. The brakes were crap, as was
the clutch, drive shaft, and pretty much everything else. The only
thing worse than the car was the dealer and the manufacturer. Pure
junk.
I'd say your dealer was your biggest problem. The ones that had the
prestolite alternators did have some regulator problems. AMC actually
made some pretty good stuff.

The original electrical problem was in the brushes. One was sheared
clean off somehow. It took everything else with it. The dealer
blamed it on someone shorting a spark plug, of all asinine arguments
to not fix it. Oh, and I forgot the extra nut in the front brake
*drum*. It really chewed the crap out of the brake when it broke
loose. Of course the dealer AND AMC wouldn't believe the nut did the
damage. It didn't. All the rest of the stuff it knocked loose (self
adjusting stuff) did the damage. Yes, the dealer sucked but AMC
wasn't any better and the car was absolute crap. It didn't last three
years and the problem wasn't rust.
Your problem was your dealer - pure and simple. Yes, thewre were some
assembly problem issues (due to labour problems) but a properly done
pre-delivery service solved the vast majority of them - and the dealer
was paid to perform that inspection/service. It was not out of the
ordinary to spend over 2 hours on a PDI - and the dealer was paid for
something like 3 hours.
Ford and Chrysler had every bit as many problems in those years - and
GM? They've ALWAYS had issues.. Toyota and Honda had their issues back
then too.(as did Datsun - and VW.

When they say "they don't make 'em like they used to" i say "THANK
GOD!!!"

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!


My brother had "The Machine" when we were teenagers.
It was geared so low that I could accidently take off in 3rd gear
when being a careful designated driver - feathering the clutch
because I wasn't accustomed to the car .. half way through
the intersection I would realize that I didn't need to shift quite
yet. :-)

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/red-w...rebel-machine/

Previous owner a friend & AMX fan had it painted black and kept
the stripe pattern but made it a white stripe - it looked pretty good,
John T.

On 3/24/2017 8:14 AM, wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!


My brother had "The Machine" when we were teenagers.
It was geared so low that I could accidently take off in 3rd gear
when being a careful designated driver - feathering the clutch
because I wasn't accustomed to the car .. half way through
the intersection I would realize that I didn't need to shift quite
yet. :-)

I had a 72 Vega GT. I'll wait for the laughing to stop. ;!)

From a stop I could spin the tires starting in second gear.






http://www.hotrod.com/articles/red-w...rebel-machine/

Previous owner a friend & AMX fan had it painted black and kept
the stripe pattern but made it a white stripe - it looked pretty good,
John T.

wrote in news:lcu8dc1fcbhpfdd1i213prqgk9r3m0i0on@
4ax.com:

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time.

Well, yes and no. They had some good engineering, but
production quality was all over the map - sometimes great,
sometimes abysmal - perhaps not worse than GM et al, but
not different enough to be called "good".

Friend of mine had a pair of AMXs - a 69 with a 390 that
he used for drag racing, and a 70 with the 360 that was
his daily driver - at least, when he wasn't rebuilding
the transmission (the 4 speed manual was a bit underspec'd
for that engine, and ate first gear fairly regularly).
He had a long list of stuff he'd fixed on both cars when
they were new, but after correcting all the factory
mistakes he figured they were good cars.

John

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:40:09 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:14 AM, wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!


My brother had "The Machine" when we were teenagers.
It was geared so low that I could accidently take off in 3rd gear
when being a careful designated driver - feathering the clutch
because I wasn't accustomed to the car .. half way through
the intersection I would realize that I didn't need to shift quite
yet. :-)

I had a 72 Vega GT. I'll wait for the laughing to stop. ;!)

From a stop I could spin the tires starting in second gear.

Not with the stock aluminum 4 cyl unless you are running real skinny
tires at high pressure. Even a Cosworth would be stresses to get much
rubber in second with decent tires.
Now something like a 1.0 liter Chevy Sprint or Pontiac Firefly with a
35+ lb flywheel COULD break 'em loose if you dumped the clutch at
about half throttle - just the inertia of the flywheel produced
significantly more instantaneous torque than the engine - - - But they
didn't spin for long.




http://www.hotrod.com/articles/red-w...rebel-machine/

Previous owner a friend & AMX fan had it painted black and kept
the stripe pattern but made it a white stripe - it looked pretty good,
John T.

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 22:42:48 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

wrote in news:lcu8dc1fcbhpfdd1i213prqgk9r3m0i0on@
4ax.com:

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time.

Well, yes and no. They had some good engineering, but
production quality was all over the map - sometimes great,
sometimes abysmal - perhaps not worse than GM et al, but
not different enough to be called "good".

Friend of mine had a pair of AMXs - a 69 with a 390 that
he used for drag racing, and a 70 with the 360 that was
his daily driver - at least, when he wasn't rebuilding
the transmission (the 4 speed manual was a bit underspec'd
for that engine, and ate first gear fairly regularly).
He had a long list of stuff he'd fixed on both cars when
they were new, but after correcting all the factory
mistakes he figured they were good cars.

John
The AMC V8s are some of the most under-appreciated engines of the
sixties and seventies in North America - both as far as reliability
and performance.

Our family owned a fair number of "rumblers" - a 62 American, a '63 or
'64 classic, '66 Classic, 68 Rebel wagon, 72 or '73 Ambassador wagon
and '75 Pacer. Dad owned the American, and my brother inherited it,
Dad owned the rebel, my sister owned the 63/64, I owned the 66 and the
Pacer. All were bought used - the rebel was sold as a demonstrator
but we found out it was a Budget Rent-a-car - all the rest were well
used and abused. The 62 was a bell telephone car that dad bought and
used as a truck for his electrical business. He traded it in on
something else, and ended up buying it again about a year later.
Couldn't kill that miserable beast - as ugly as they come.

In article jvcbdctuaks93ea6b2cbfkpc160iu2rbnd@
4ax.com, says...

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:40:09 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:14 AM, wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!


My brother had "The Machine" when we were teenagers.
It was geared so low that I could accidently take off in 3rd gear
when being a careful designated driver - feathering the clutch
because I wasn't accustomed to the car .. half way through
the intersection I would realize that I didn't need to shift quite
yet. :-)

I had a 72 Vega GT. I'll wait for the laughing to stop. ;!)

From a stop I could spin the tires starting in second gear.

Not with the stock aluminum 4 cyl unless you are running real skinny
tires at high pressure. Even a Cosworth would be stresses to get much
rubber in second with decent tires.
Now something like a 1.0 liter Chevy Sprint or Pontiac Firefly with a
35+ lb flywheel COULD break 'em loose if you dumped the clutch at
about half throttle - just the inertia of the flywheel produced
significantly more instantaneous torque than the engine - - - But they
didn't spin for long.

What was annoying was a small block V-8 with
powerglide and a high ratio rear end. My
mothers Olds would burn rubber at the drop of a
hat--if there was even the slightest bit of
moisture on the road it was difficult to get it
to start moving. Finally caught up with me one
rainy afternoon--went to cross an intersection,
nothing in sight as far as I could see in either
direction, and there I was a quarter of the way
across spinning the wheel like all getout and
not moving at all when some guy hit me. Of
course the cop thought I had run the stop sign
and there was no convincing him otherwise.

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 21:34:37 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article jvcbdctuaks93ea6b2cbfkpc160iu2rbnd@
4ax.com, says...

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:40:09 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:14 AM, wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!


My brother had "The Machine" when we were teenagers.
It was geared so low that I could accidently take off in 3rd gear
when being a careful designated driver - feathering the clutch
because I wasn't accustomed to the car .. half way through
the intersection I would realize that I didn't need to shift quite
yet. :-)

I had a 72 Vega GT. I'll wait for the laughing to stop. ;!)

From a stop I could spin the tires starting in second gear.

Not with the stock aluminum 4 cyl unless you are running real skinny
tires at high pressure. Even a Cosworth would be stresses to get much
rubber in second with decent tires.
Now something like a 1.0 liter Chevy Sprint or Pontiac Firefly with a
35+ lb flywheel COULD break 'em loose if you dumped the clutch at
about half throttle - just the inertia of the flywheel produced
significantly more instantaneous torque than the engine - - - But they
didn't spin for long.

What was annoying was a small block V-8 with
powerglide and a high ratio rear end. My
mothers Olds would burn rubber at the drop of a
hat--if there was even the slightest bit of
moisture on the road it was difficult to get it
to start moving. Finally caught up with me one
rainy afternoon--went to cross an intersection,
nothing in sight as far as I could see in either
direction, and there I was a quarter of the way
across spinning the wheel like all getout and
not moving at all when some guy hit me. Of
course the cop thought I had run the stop sign
and there was no convincing him otherwise.
That was more a function of really crappy tires than horsepower -
particularly going through a "slip and slide powerglide" - and to the
best of my knowlege NO oldsmobile came from the factory with a
powerglide.. By the time GM was putting "corporate' engines into
Oldsmobiles the "powerslide" was history - The chevy smallblock first
arrived in Olds cars in about 1977. the last Powerglide slush pump was
built in 1973. Olds used Hydra-Matic transmissions - and the 3 speed
Turbo Hydra-matic replaced the 2 speed Powerglide in Chevies. by 1974.

Replacing the powerglide with a TH250 in an early Chevy 11 Nova made a
HUGE performance improvement..

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 23:53:04 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:24:42 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:11:26 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:50:05 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:09:35 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 14:46:41 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 17:42:47 -0400
wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!

Ours was a 232 but the engine was the only part of the car that didn't
have a problem. Everything from the alternator to the window frames
broke in the first few months. The dash was warped so badly that the
glove box door wouldn't close properly. The brakes were crap, as was
the clutch, drive shaft, and pretty much everything else. The only
thing worse than the car was the dealer and the manufacturer. Pure
junk.
I'd say your dealer was your biggest problem. The ones that had the
prestolite alternators did have some regulator problems. AMC actually
made some pretty good stuff.

The original electrical problem was in the brushes. One was sheared
clean off somehow. It took everything else with it. The dealer
blamed it on someone shorting a spark plug, of all asinine arguments
to not fix it. Oh, and I forgot the extra nut in the front brake
*drum*. It really chewed the crap out of the brake when it broke
loose. Of course the dealer AND AMC wouldn't believe the nut did the
damage. It didn't. All the rest of the stuff it knocked loose (self
adjusting stuff) did the damage. Yes, the dealer sucked but AMC
wasn't any better and the car was absolute crap. It didn't last three
years and the problem wasn't rust.
Your problem was your dealer - pure and simple. Yes, thewre were some
assembly problem issues (due to labour problems) but a properly done
pre-delivery service solved the vast majority of them - and the dealer
was paid to perform that inspection/service. It was not out of the
ordinary to spend over 2 hours on a PDI - and the dealer was paid for
something like 3 hours.
Ford and Chrysler had every bit as many problems in those years - and
GM? They've ALWAYS had issues.. Toyota and Honda had their issues back
then too.(as did Datsun - and VW.

The dealer was crap, for sure, but the company behind them wasn't any
better (and the workers, probably not up to that level)...

When they say "they don't make 'em like they used to" i say "THANK
GOD!!!"

+(can't count that high)

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 23:09:23 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 23:53:04 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:24:42 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:11:26 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:50:05 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:09:35 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 14:46:41 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 17:42:47 -0400
wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!

Ours was a 232 but the engine was the only part of the car that didn't
have a problem. Everything from the alternator to the window frames
broke in the first few months. The dash was warped so badly that the
glove box door wouldn't close properly. The brakes were crap, as was
the clutch, drive shaft, and pretty much everything else. The only
thing worse than the car was the dealer and the manufacturer. Pure
junk.
I'd say your dealer was your biggest problem. The ones that had the
prestolite alternators did have some regulator problems. AMC actually
made some pretty good stuff.

The original electrical problem was in the brushes. One was sheared
clean off somehow. It took everything else with it. The dealer
blamed it on someone shorting a spark plug, of all asinine arguments
to not fix it. Oh, and I forgot the extra nut in the front brake
*drum*. It really chewed the crap out of the brake when it broke
loose. Of course the dealer AND AMC wouldn't believe the nut did the
damage. It didn't. All the rest of the stuff it knocked loose (self
adjusting stuff) did the damage. Yes, the dealer sucked but AMC
wasn't any better and the car was absolute crap. It didn't last three
years and the problem wasn't rust.
Your problem was your dealer - pure and simple. Yes, thewre were some
assembly problem issues (due to labour problems) but a properly done
pre-delivery service solved the vast majority of them - and the dealer
was paid to perform that inspection/service. It was not out of the
ordinary to spend over 2 hours on a PDI - and the dealer was paid for
something like 3 hours.
Ford and Chrysler had every bit as many problems in those years - and
GM? They've ALWAYS had issues.. Toyota and Honda had their issues back
then too.(as did Datsun - and VW.

The dealer was crap, for sure, but the company behind them wasn't any
better (and the workers, probably not up to that level)...

When they say "they don't make 'em like they used to" i say "THANK
GOD!!!"

+(can't count that high)
Well, I worked for an AMC dealer in '72, and American Motors Canada
went the extra mile for their dealers to satisfy the customers. Labour
problems affected build quality - mostly in fit and finish - things
like ball bearings or bolts welded into closed body chanels (the fix I
devised was to drill a hole and shoot the channel full of undercoating
to glue the nut or bearing in place) and beer cans inside tires. AMC
paid what was required to fix those problems.

In article eclbdc1r3l4l8nm3cvmop230gg6tkmclrq@
4ax.com, says...

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 21:34:37 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article jvcbdctuaks93ea6b2cbfkpc160iu2rbnd@
4ax.com, says...

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:40:09 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:14 AM, wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!


My brother had "The Machine" when we were teenagers.
It was geared so low that I could accidently take off in 3rd gear
when being a careful designated driver - feathering the clutch
because I wasn't accustomed to the car .. half way through
the intersection I would realize that I didn't need to shift quite
yet. :-)

I had a 72 Vega GT. I'll wait for the laughing to stop. ;!)

From a stop I could spin the tires starting in second gear.

Not with the stock aluminum 4 cyl unless you are running real skinny
tires at high pressure. Even a Cosworth would be stresses to get much
rubber in second with decent tires.
Now something like a 1.0 liter Chevy Sprint or Pontiac Firefly with a
35+ lb flywheel COULD break 'em loose if you dumped the clutch at
about half throttle - just the inertia of the flywheel produced
significantly more instantaneous torque than the engine - - - But they
didn't spin for long.

What was annoying was a small block V-8 with
powerglide and a high ratio rear end. My
mothers Olds would burn rubber at the drop of a
hat--if there was even the slightest bit of
moisture on the road it was difficult to get it
to start moving. Finally caught up with me one
rainy afternoon--went to cross an intersection,
nothing in sight as far as I could see in either
direction, and there I was a quarter of the way
across spinning the wheel like all getout and
not moving at all when some guy hit me. Of
course the cop thought I had run the stop sign
and there was no convincing him otherwise.
That was more a function of really crappy tires than horsepower -
particularly going through a "slip and slide powerglide" - and to the
best of my knowlege NO oldsmobile came from the factory with a
powerglide.. By the time GM was putting "corporate' engines into
Oldsmobiles the "powerslide" was history - The chevy smallblock first
arrived in Olds cars in about 1977. the last Powerglide slush pump was
built in 1973. Olds used Hydra-Matic transmissions - and the 3 speed
Turbo Hydra-matic replaced the 2 speed Powerglide in Chevies. by 1974.

Replacing the powerglide with a TH250 in an early Chevy 11 Nova made a
HUGE performance improvement..

Thank you for providing a Mona Lisa Vito-worthy
automotive infodump. However Mona's boyfriend
would have first ascertained such particulars as
he could before turning Miss Vito loose on the
court. And in this case it was a 1968 Cutlass.

However I do see the source of my confusion, I
did not realize that GM had foisted two
DIFFERENT 2-speed automatic abominations on the
world. As for the "corporate" engine, no, it
did not have a Chevrolet engine, it had
Oldsmobile's quite adequate 350--"small block"
is not restricted to Chevrolet.

I agree that the tires were at least part of the
issue, however after that relatively minor
fender bender (one tiny piece of trim on the
Olds bent) my mother decided to sell it instead
of doing something sensible like putting a set
of Michelins on it.

On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 00:38:38 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article eclbdc1r3l4l8nm3cvmop230gg6tkmclrq@
4ax.com, says...

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 21:34:37 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article jvcbdctuaks93ea6b2cbfkpc160iu2rbnd@
4ax.com, says...

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:40:09 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:14 AM, wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!


My brother had "The Machine" when we were teenagers.
It was geared so low that I could accidently take off in 3rd gear
when being a careful designated driver - feathering the clutch
because I wasn't accustomed to the car .. half way through
the intersection I would realize that I didn't need to shift quite
yet. :-)

I had a 72 Vega GT. I'll wait for the laughing to stop. ;!)

From a stop I could spin the tires starting in second gear.

Not with the stock aluminum 4 cyl unless you are running real skinny
tires at high pressure. Even a Cosworth would be stresses to get much
rubber in second with decent tires.
Now something like a 1.0 liter Chevy Sprint or Pontiac Firefly with a
35+ lb flywheel COULD break 'em loose if you dumped the clutch at
about half throttle - just the inertia of the flywheel produced
significantly more instantaneous torque than the engine - - - But they
didn't spin for long.

What was annoying was a small block V-8 with
powerglide and a high ratio rear end. My
mothers Olds would burn rubber at the drop of a
hat--if there was even the slightest bit of
moisture on the road it was difficult to get it
to start moving. Finally caught up with me one
rainy afternoon--went to cross an intersection,
nothing in sight as far as I could see in either
direction, and there I was a quarter of the way
across spinning the wheel like all getout and
not moving at all when some guy hit me. Of
course the cop thought I had run the stop sign
and there was no convincing him otherwise.
That was more a function of really crappy tires than horsepower -
particularly going through a "slip and slide powerglide" - and to the
best of my knowlege NO oldsmobile came from the factory with a
powerglide.. By the time GM was putting "corporate' engines into
Oldsmobiles the "powerslide" was history - The chevy smallblock first
arrived in Olds cars in about 1977. the last Powerglide slush pump was
built in 1973. Olds used Hydra-Matic transmissions - and the 3 speed
Turbo Hydra-matic replaced the 2 speed Powerglide in Chevies. by 1974.

Replacing the powerglide with a TH250 in an early Chevy 11 Nova made a
HUGE performance improvement..

Thank you for providing a Mona Lisa Vito-worthy
automotive infodump. However Mona's boyfriend
would have first ascertained such particulars as
he could before turning Miss Vito loose on the
court. And in this case it was a 1968 Cutlass.

However I do see the source of my confusion, I
did not realize that GM had foisted two
DIFFERENT 2-speed automatic abominations on the
world. As for the "corporate" engine, no, it
did not have a Chevrolet engine, it had
Oldsmobile's quite adequate 350--"small block"
is not restricted to Chevrolet.

I agree that the tires were at least part of the
issue, however after that relatively minor
fender bender (one tiny piece of trim on the
Olds bent) my mother decided to sell it instead
of doing something sensible like putting a set
of Michelins on it.

That critter had a "jet-away" transmission -which had a dual stage
converter - also called a "switch pitch" which made it act more like a
3 or 4 speed automatic than a powerglide. - it had 2 planetary ratios
and 2 converter "ratios". Thepowerglide has 2 planetary ratios and
that's all.

The Jet-away WOULD burn the tires with a 350 rocket if it was set up
right. It would start in low with the highg pitch converter, then
"upshift" the converter, before finally shifting into high (sometimes
downshifting the converter to give the effect of a 4 speed )
The car would have had E or F78-14 tires from the factory (roughly a
200-70 in P Metric) G78 or H70 tires would hold a lot better,
particularly with the right rubber, and a lot of guys used L70-14 or
L60-15s on the w31 and 442. Belteds stuck better than straight bias
plies - Firestone Wide Ovals were popular - and BF Goodrich TAs were a
good upgrade with a lot better traction.

On 3/24/2017 11:09 PM, wrote:


The dealer was crap, for sure, but the company behind them wasn't any
better (and the workers, probably not up to that level)...

When they say "they don't make 'em like they used to" i say "THANK
GOD!!!"

+(can't count that high)


Agree. But back in the 50s and 60s you could tell a Chevy from a Ford a
half mile away. Today, aerodynamics has improved buy 90% of the cars
look almost alike from 30 feet away.

On 3/24/2017 7:09 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:40:09 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:14 AM, wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!


My brother had "The Machine" when we were teenagers.
It was geared so low that I could accidently take off in 3rd gear
when being a careful designated driver - feathering the clutch
because I wasn't accustomed to the car .. half way through
the intersection I would realize that I didn't need to shift quite
yet. :-)

I had a 72 Vega GT. I'll wait for the laughing to stop. ;!)

From a stop I could spin the tires starting in second gear.

Not with the stock aluminum 4 cyl unless you are running real skinny
tires at high pressure. Even a Cosworth would be stresses to get much
rubber in second with decent tires.

Yes with the stock 4 banger, A70-13 Firestones. Well there were 2
versions of the stock Vega engine. One had a different cam. Still
about 92 HP.

Because of the coil springs in the back I got all kinds of wheel hop if
I was not careful.

If you start with enough enough RPM's you could easily spin the tires.

On 3/24/2017 8:34 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article jvcbdctuaks93ea6b2cbfkpc160iu2rbnd@
4ax.com, says...

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:40:09 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:14 AM, wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!


My brother had "The Machine" when we were teenagers.
It was geared so low that I could accidently take off in 3rd gear
when being a careful designated driver - feathering the clutch
because I wasn't accustomed to the car .. half way through
the intersection I would realize that I didn't need to shift quite
yet. :-)

I had a 72 Vega GT. I'll wait for the laughing to stop. ;!)

From a stop I could spin the tires starting in second gear.

Not with the stock aluminum 4 cyl unless you are running real skinny
tires at high pressure. Even a Cosworth would be stresses to get much
rubber in second with decent tires.
Now something like a 1.0 liter Chevy Sprint or Pontiac Firefly with a
35+ lb flywheel COULD break 'em loose if you dumped the clutch at
about half throttle - just the inertia of the flywheel produced
significantly more instantaneous torque than the engine - - - But they
didn't spin for long.

What was annoying was a small block V-8 with
powerglide and a high ratio rear end. My
mothers Olds would burn rubber at the drop of a
hat--if there was even the slightest bit of
moisture on the road it was difficult to get it
to start moving. Finally caught up with me one
rainy afternoon--went to cross an intersection,
nothing in sight as far as I could see in either
direction, and there I was a quarter of the way
across spinning the wheel like all getout and
not moving at all when some guy hit me. Of
course the cop thought I had run the stop sign
and there was no convincing him otherwise.



Radial Tires eleminate most of that problem.
Old biased ply tires were horrible on wet surfaces especially adphault
surfaces.

On 3/25/2017 12:26 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 00:38:38 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article eclbdc1r3l4l8nm3cvmop230gg6tkmclrq@
4ax.com, says...

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 21:34:37 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article jvcbdctuaks93ea6b2cbfkpc160iu2rbnd@
4ax.com, says...

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:40:09 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:14 AM, wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!


My brother had "The Machine" when we were teenagers.
It was geared so low that I could accidently take off in 3rd gear
when being a careful designated driver - feathering the clutch
because I wasn't accustomed to the car .. half way through
the intersection I would realize that I didn't need to shift quite
yet. :-)

I had a 72 Vega GT. I'll wait for the laughing to stop. ;!)

From a stop I could spin the tires starting in second gear.

Not with the stock aluminum 4 cyl unless you are running real skinny
tires at high pressure. Even a Cosworth would be stresses to get much
rubber in second with decent tires.
Now something like a 1.0 liter Chevy Sprint or Pontiac Firefly with a
35+ lb flywheel COULD break 'em loose if you dumped the clutch at
about half throttle - just the inertia of the flywheel produced
significantly more instantaneous torque than the engine - - - But they
didn't spin for long.

What was annoying was a small block V-8 with
powerglide and a high ratio rear end. My
mothers Olds would burn rubber at the drop of a
hat--if there was even the slightest bit of
moisture on the road it was difficult to get it
to start moving. Finally caught up with me one
rainy afternoon--went to cross an intersection,
nothing in sight as far as I could see in either
direction, and there I was a quarter of the way
across spinning the wheel like all getout and
not moving at all when some guy hit me. Of
course the cop thought I had run the stop sign
and there was no convincing him otherwise.
That was more a function of really crappy tires than horsepower -
particularly going through a "slip and slide powerglide" - and to the
best of my knowlege NO oldsmobile came from the factory with a
powerglide.. By the time GM was putting "corporate' engines into
Oldsmobiles the "powerslide" was history - The chevy smallblock first
arrived in Olds cars in about 1977. the last Powerglide slush pump was
built in 1973. Olds used Hydra-Matic transmissions - and the 3 speed
Turbo Hydra-matic replaced the 2 speed Powerglide in Chevies. by 1974.

Replacing the powerglide with a TH250 in an early Chevy 11 Nova made a
HUGE performance improvement..

Thank you for providing a Mona Lisa Vito-worthy
automotive infodump. However Mona's boyfriend
would have first ascertained such particulars as
he could before turning Miss Vito loose on the
court. And in this case it was a 1968 Cutlass.

However I do see the source of my confusion, I
did not realize that GM had foisted two
DIFFERENT 2-speed automatic abominations on the
world. As for the "corporate" engine, no, it
did not have a Chevrolet engine, it had
Oldsmobile's quite adequate 350--"small block"
is not restricted to Chevrolet.

I agree that the tires were at least part of the
issue, however after that relatively minor
fender bender (one tiny piece of trim on the
Olds bent) my mother decided to sell it instead
of doing something sensible like putting a set
of Michelins on it.

That critter had a "jet-away" transmission -which had a dual stage
converter - also called a "switch pitch" which made it act more like a
3 or 4 speed automatic than a powerglide. - it had 2 planetary ratios
and 2 converter "ratios". Thepowerglide has 2 planetary ratios and
that's all.

The Jet-away WOULD burn the tires with a 350 rocket if it was set up
right. It would start in low with the highg pitch converter, then
"upshift" the converter, before finally shifting into high (sometimes
downshifting the converter to give the effect of a 4 speed )
The car would have had E or F78-14 tires from the factory

In 68, it probably had 7.35 or 7.75 tires. E78-F78. ;~) I was in the
tire business in the early 70's when the switch to the letter rated
sizing began to happen. When working PT for the tire store, in 72, I
had to learn to convert the old style sizing to the letter sizing. And
that did not last long, I went through the same thing when going to the
metric sizing change around 1977.

Oddly the sizing went full circle, back to the approximate width of the
tread, except it went metric instead of inches. Approximate because
every manufacturer has a different start and end point for the width
measurement.




(roughly a
200-70 in P Metric) G78 or H70 tires would hold a lot better,
particularly with the right rubber, and a lot of guys used L70-14 or
L60-15s on the w31 and 442. Belteds stuck better than straight bias
plies - Firestone Wide Ovals were popular - and BF Goodrich TAs were a
good upgrade with a lot better traction.

In article X_CdnZatfeACBkvFnZ2dnUU7-
, lcb11211@swbelldotnet
says...

On 3/25/2017 12:26 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 00:38:38 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article eclbdc1r3l4l8nm3cvmop230gg6tkmclrq@
4ax.com, says...

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 21:34:37 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article jvcbdctuaks93ea6b2cbfkpc160iu2rbnd@
4ax.com, says...

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:40:09 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:14 AM, wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!


My brother had "The Machine" when we were teenagers.
It was geared so low that I could accidently take off in 3rd gear
when being a careful designated driver - feathering the clutch
because I wasn't accustomed to the car .. half way through
the intersection I would realize that I didn't need to shift quite
yet. :-)

I had a 72 Vega GT. I'll wait for the laughing to stop. ;!)

From a stop I could spin the tires starting in second gear.

Not with the stock aluminum 4 cyl unless you are running real skinny
tires at high pressure. Even a Cosworth would be stresses to get much
rubber in second with decent tires.
Now something like a 1.0 liter Chevy Sprint or Pontiac Firefly with a
35+ lb flywheel COULD break 'em loose if you dumped the clutch at
about half throttle - just the inertia of the flywheel produced
significantly more instantaneous torque than the engine - - - But they
didn't spin for long.

What was annoying was a small block V-8 with
powerglide and a high ratio rear end. My
mothers Olds would burn rubber at the drop of a
hat--if there was even the slightest bit of
moisture on the road it was difficult to get it
to start moving. Finally caught up with me one
rainy afternoon--went to cross an intersection,
nothing in sight as far as I could see in either
direction, and there I was a quarter of the way
across spinning the wheel like all getout and
not moving at all when some guy hit me. Of
course the cop thought I had run the stop sign
and there was no convincing him otherwise.
That was more a function of really crappy tires than horsepower -
particularly going through a "slip and slide powerglide" - and to the
best of my knowlege NO oldsmobile came from the factory with a
powerglide.. By the time GM was putting "corporate' engines into
Oldsmobiles the "powerslide" was history - The chevy smallblock first
arrived in Olds cars in about 1977. the last Powerglide slush pump was
built in 1973. Olds used Hydra-Matic transmissions - and the 3 speed
Turbo Hydra-matic replaced the 2 speed Powerglide in Chevies. by 1974.

Replacing the powerglide with a TH250 in an early Chevy 11 Nova made a
HUGE performance improvement..

Thank you for providing a Mona Lisa Vito-worthy
automotive infodump. However Mona's boyfriend
would have first ascertained such particulars as
he could before turning Miss Vito loose on the
court. And in this case it was a 1968 Cutlass.

However I do see the source of my confusion, I
did not realize that GM had foisted two
DIFFERENT 2-speed automatic abominations on the
world. As for the "corporate" engine, no, it
did not have a Chevrolet engine, it had
Oldsmobile's quite adequate 350--"small block"
is not restricted to Chevrolet.

I agree that the tires were at least part of the
issue, however after that relatively minor
fender bender (one tiny piece of trim on the
Olds bent) my mother decided to sell it instead
of doing something sensible like putting a set
of Michelins on it.

That critter had a "jet-away" transmission -which had a dual stage
converter - also called a "switch pitch" which made it act more like a
3 or 4 speed automatic than a powerglide. - it had 2 planetary ratios
and 2 converter "ratios". Thepowerglide has 2 planetary ratios and
that's all.

The Jet-away WOULD burn the tires with a 350 rocket if it was set up
right. It would start in low with the highg pitch converter, then
"upshift" the converter, before finally shifting into high (sometimes
downshifting the converter to give the effect of a 4 speed )
The car would have had E or F78-14 tires from the factory

In 68, it probably had 7.35 or 7.75 tires. E78-F78. ;~) I was in the
tire business in the early 70's when the switch to the letter rated
sizing began to happen. When working PT for the tire store, in 72, I
had to learn to convert the old style sizing to the letter sizing. And
that did not last long, I went through the same thing when going to the
metric sizing change around 1977.

Oddly the sizing went full circle, back to the approximate width of the
tread, except it went metric instead of inches. Approximate because
every manufacturer has a different start and end point for the width
measurement.




(roughly a
200-70 in P Metric) G78 or H70 tires would hold a lot better,
particularly with the right rubber, and a lot of guys used L70-14 or
L60-15s on the w31 and 442. Belteds stuck better than straight bias
plies - Firestone Wide Ovals were popular - and BF Goodrich TAs were a
good upgrade with a lot better traction.


It's amazing what aspect ratio does to
appearance. My Jeep has 16 inch wheels and they
look like great huge things. My electric has 17
inch and with that tiny bit of rubber around
them they look tiny.

On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 11:16:47 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 7:09 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:40:09 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:14 AM, wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!


My brother had "The Machine" when we were teenagers.
It was geared so low that I could accidently take off in 3rd gear
when being a careful designated driver - feathering the clutch
because I wasn't accustomed to the car .. half way through
the intersection I would realize that I didn't need to shift quite
yet. :-)

I had a 72 Vega GT. I'll wait for the laughing to stop. ;!)

From a stop I could spin the tires starting in second gear.

Not with the stock aluminum 4 cyl unless you are running real skinny
tires at high pressure. Even a Cosworth would be stresses to get much
rubber in second with decent tires.

Yes with the stock 4 banger, A70-13 Firestones. Well there were 2
versions of the stock Vega engine. One had a different cam. Still
about 92 HP.

Because of the coil springs in the back I got all kinds of wheel hop if
I was not careful.

If you start with enough enough RPM's you could easily spin the tires.



And take out the clutch, u-joints, diff, or rear axles if you did it
too often. And A-70 13s were skinny tires - I ran c70s on my 63
valiant and on my (don't die laughing) Pontiac Firenza (Vauxhaull HC
Magnum). The a 70 is equivalent to a 165-70 p metric tire - I call
them "bicycle tires" or "Roller skate wheels" A C70 was the same as a
215 p-metric and actually filled out the fender-wells a bit -
particularly on the F'renza with vega or chevette GT wheels (6 inch
width instead of the 4.5 or 5 inch Vauxhall rims)

On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 14:42:08 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:
SNIP

Oddly the sizing went full circle, back to the approximate width of the
tread, except it went metric instead of inches. Approximate because
every manufacturer has a different start and end point for the width
measurement.




(roughly a
200-70 in P Metric) G78 or H70 tires would hold a lot better,
particularly with the right rubber, and a lot of guys used L70-14 or
L60-15s on the w31 and 442. Belteds stuck better than straight bias
plies - Firestone Wide Ovals were popular - and BF Goodrich TAs were a
good upgrade with a lot better traction.


It's amazing what aspect ratio does to
appearance. My Jeep has 16 inch wheels and they
look like great huge things. My electric has 17
inch and with that tiny bit of rubber around
them they look tiny.
The jeep tires ARE huge, and the electric's tires ARE tiny. The jeep
tires are likely wider to start with (235mm vs 205?)- and then a
higher profile, so the Jeep wheels are likley something like 30 inches
in diameter while the electric's are likely on the shy side of 25
inches.

On 3/25/2017 2:22 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 11:16:47 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 7:09 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:40:09 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:14 AM, wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!


My brother had "The Machine" when we were teenagers.
It was geared so low that I could accidently take off in 3rd gear
when being a careful designated driver - feathering the clutch
because I wasn't accustomed to the car .. half way through
the intersection I would realize that I didn't need to shift quite
yet. :-)

I had a 72 Vega GT. I'll wait for the laughing to stop. ;!)

From a stop I could spin the tires starting in second gear.

Not with the stock aluminum 4 cyl unless you are running real skinny
tires at high pressure. Even a Cosworth would be stresses to get much
rubber in second with decent tires.

Yes with the stock 4 banger, A70-13 Firestones. Well there were 2
versions of the stock Vega engine. One had a different cam. Still
about 92 HP.

Because of the coil springs in the back I got all kinds of wheel hop if
I was not careful.

If you start with enough enough RPM's you could easily spin the tires.



And take out the clutch, u-joints, diff, or rear axles if you did it
too often. And A-70 13s were skinny tires

Skinny by today's standards, but most small American cars back then had
A78-13 tires. Still the same width but taller and less responsive to
handling




- I ran c70s on my 63
valiant and on my (don't die laughing) Pontiac Firenza (Vauxhaull HC
Magnum). The a 70 is equivalent to a 165-70 p metric tire - I call
them "bicycle tires" or "Roller skate wheels" A C70 was the same as a
215 p-metric and actually filled out the fender-wells a bit -
particularly on the F'renza with vega or chevette GT wheels (6 inch
width instead of the 4.5 or 5 inch Vauxhall rims)



IIRC about 6" for "A". A "C" was about 6.5", still pretty narrow.
The 70 did not make tires wider but made them "look" wider. Same is true
for 60, 50, etc series tires. You probably know that the number after
the letter represented the height of side wall to tread width ratio.

Old VW tires were 5.60-15's. Really narrow looking.

On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 23:09:23 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/25/2017 2:22 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 11:16:47 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 7:09 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:40:09 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:14 AM, wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!


My brother had "The Machine" when we were teenagers.
It was geared so low that I could accidently take off in 3rd gear
when being a careful designated driver - feathering the clutch
because I wasn't accustomed to the car .. half way through
the intersection I would realize that I didn't need to shift quite
yet. :-)

I had a 72 Vega GT. I'll wait for the laughing to stop. ;!)

From a stop I could spin the tires starting in second gear.

Not with the stock aluminum 4 cyl unless you are running real skinny
tires at high pressure. Even a Cosworth would be stresses to get much
rubber in second with decent tires.

Yes with the stock 4 banger, A70-13 Firestones. Well there were 2
versions of the stock Vega engine. One had a different cam. Still
about 92 HP.

Because of the coil springs in the back I got all kinds of wheel hop if
I was not careful.

If you start with enough enough RPM's you could easily spin the tires.



And take out the clutch, u-joints, diff, or rear axles if you did it
too often. And A-70 13s were skinny tires

Skinny by today's standards, but most small American cars back then had
A78-13 tires. Still the same width but taller and less responsive to
handling




- I ran c70s on my 63
valiant and on my (don't die laughing) Pontiac Firenza (Vauxhaull HC
Magnum). The a 70 is equivalent to a 165-70 p metric tire - I call
them "bicycle tires" or "Roller skate wheels" A C70 was the same as a
215 p-metric and actually filled out the fender-wells a bit -
particularly on the F'renza with vega or chevette GT wheels (6 inch
width instead of the 4.5 or 5 inch Vauxhall rims)



IIRC about 6" for "A". A "C" was about 6.5", still pretty narrow.
The 70 did not make tires wider but made them "look" wider. Same is true
for 60, 50, etc series tires. You probably know that the number after
the letter represented the height of side wall to tread width ratio.

Old VW tires were 5.60-15's. Really narrow looking.
But the C was a lot wider than an A, and a C 70 was about the same
diameter as an A78.
And that wasn't an "old" volhswagen tire. An "old" VW beetle had 16
inch rims - with 500X16 tires. (I owned a '49 splitwindow beetle)

On 3/26/2017 3:15 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 23:09:23 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/25/2017 2:22 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 11:16:47 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 7:09 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:40:09 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:14 AM, wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!


My brother had "The Machine" when we were teenagers.
It was geared so low that I could accidently take off in 3rd gear
when being a careful designated driver - feathering the clutch
because I wasn't accustomed to the car .. half way through
the intersection I would realize that I didn't need to shift quite
yet. :-)

I had a 72 Vega GT. I'll wait for the laughing to stop. ;!)

From a stop I could spin the tires starting in second gear.

Not with the stock aluminum 4 cyl unless you are running real skinny
tires at high pressure. Even a Cosworth would be stresses to get much
rubber in second with decent tires.

Yes with the stock 4 banger, A70-13 Firestones. Well there were 2
versions of the stock Vega engine. One had a different cam. Still
about 92 HP.

Because of the coil springs in the back I got all kinds of wheel hop if
I was not careful.

If you start with enough enough RPM's you could easily spin the tires.



And take out the clutch, u-joints, diff, or rear axles if you did it
too often. And A-70 13s were skinny tires

Skinny by today's standards, but most small American cars back then had
A78-13 tires. Still the same width but taller and less responsive to
handling




- I ran c70s on my 63
valiant and on my (don't die laughing) Pontiac Firenza (Vauxhaull HC
Magnum). The a 70 is equivalent to a 165-70 p metric tire - I call
them "bicycle tires" or "Roller skate wheels" A C70 was the same as a
215 p-metric and actually filled out the fender-wells a bit -
particularly on the F'renza with vega or chevette GT wheels (6 inch
width instead of the 4.5 or 5 inch Vauxhall rims)



IIRC about 6" for "A". A "C" was about 6.5", still pretty narrow.
The 70 did not make tires wider but made them "look" wider. Same is true
for 60, 50, etc series tires. You probably know that the number after
the letter represented the height of side wall to tread width ratio.

Old VW tires were 5.60-15's. Really narrow looking.



But the C was a lot wider than an A,

About .5" or 8% wider.



and a C 70 was about the same
diameter as an A78.

What is your point there?



And that wasn't an "old" volhswagen tire. An "old" VW beetle had 16
inch rims - with 500X16 tires. (I owned a '49 splitwindow beetle)


Are you saying a 65 VW is not old? 52 years...

On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 16:49:36 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/26/2017 3:15 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 23:09:23 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/25/2017 2:22 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 11:16:47 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 7:09 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:40:09 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:14 AM, wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!


My brother had "The Machine" when we were teenagers.
It was geared so low that I could accidently take off in 3rd gear
when being a careful designated driver - feathering the clutch
because I wasn't accustomed to the car .. half way through
the intersection I would realize that I didn't need to shift quite
yet. :-)

I had a 72 Vega GT. I'll wait for the laughing to stop. ;!)

From a stop I could spin the tires starting in second gear.

Not with the stock aluminum 4 cyl unless you are running real skinny
tires at high pressure. Even a Cosworth would be stresses to get much
rubber in second with decent tires.

Yes with the stock 4 banger, A70-13 Firestones. Well there were 2
versions of the stock Vega engine. One had a different cam. Still
about 92 HP.

Because of the coil springs in the back I got all kinds of wheel hop if
I was not careful.

If you start with enough enough RPM's you could easily spin the tires.



And take out the clutch, u-joints, diff, or rear axles if you did it
too often. And A-70 13s were skinny tires

Skinny by today's standards, but most small American cars back then had
A78-13 tires. Still the same width but taller and less responsive to
handling




- I ran c70s on my 63
valiant and on my (don't die laughing) Pontiac Firenza (Vauxhaull HC
Magnum). The a 70 is equivalent to a 165-70 p metric tire - I call
them "bicycle tires" or "Roller skate wheels" A C70 was the same as a
215 p-metric and actually filled out the fender-wells a bit -
particularly on the F'renza with vega or chevette GT wheels (6 inch
width instead of the 4.5 or 5 inch Vauxhall rims)



IIRC about 6" for "A". A "C" was about 6.5", still pretty narrow.
The 70 did not make tires wider but made them "look" wider. Same is true
for 60, 50, etc series tires. You probably know that the number after
the letter represented the height of side wall to tread width ratio.

Old VW tires were 5.60-15's. Really narrow looking.



But the C was a lot wider than an A,

About .5" or 8% wider.



and a C 70 was about the same
diameter as an A78.

What is your point there?

What was YOUR point with:
IIRC about 6" for "A". A "C" was about 6.5", still pretty narrow.
The 70 did not make tires wider but made them "look" wider. Same is
true for 60, 50, etc series tires. You probably know that the number
after the letter represented the height of side wall to tread width
ratio.


And that wasn't an "old" volhswagen tire. An "old" VW beetle had 16
inch rims - with 500X16 tires. (I owned a '49 splitwindow beetle)


Are you saying a 65 VW is not old? 52 years...
There is old and ther is OLD. And there is "narrow looking" and there
is NARROW.

The whole discussion started with burning rubber in second gear with
a Vega GT. I said only with skinny tires. Most people who really DROVE
a Vega GT didn't replace the tires with A70s. (there were quite a few
C60 and D60 tires on Vegas and Astres around here. - and even 14
inchers with V6 and V8 transplants)

On 3/26/2017 5:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 16:49:36 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/26/2017 3:15 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 23:09:23 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/25/2017 2:22 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 11:16:47 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 7:09 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:40:09 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 8:14 AM, wrote:

Yep - the bullet holes were put there by the owner.
and he saved one for himself.

haha

apparently and believe or not they are sought after

in good condition they even get a pretty good price

That's because one in good condition has always been exceedingly rare,
even when they were new (owned a '71 Gremlin - the most appropriately
named car in history).

I worked for a short time for an AMC dealer back in '72, and they were
actually pretty good cars when compared to products from GM. Ford, and
Chrysler at the same time. One big problem with the gremy and hornet
was the latch pins breaking out of the doorposts after the hinge pins
wore out or sagged.. They had pretty well solved the rocker arm oiling
issue on the 232 by that time. The 258 was a better motor for the car
- and the 340 was AWSOME. There was a dealer in Mesa Arizona that put
the 401 AMX engine in the Grem. - Randall Motors XR401.
There were quite a few 360s transplanted into Grems too -
They were HAIRY!!!!


My brother had "The Machine" when we were teenagers.
It was geared so low that I could accidently take off in 3rd gear
when being a careful designated driver - feathering the clutch
because I wasn't accustomed to the car .. half way through
the intersection I would realize that I didn't need to shift quite
yet. :-)

I had a 72 Vega GT. I'll wait for the laughing to stop. ;!)

From a stop I could spin the tires starting in second gear.

Not with the stock aluminum 4 cyl unless you are running real skinny
tires at high pressure. Even a Cosworth would be stresses to get much
rubber in second with decent tires.

Yes with the stock 4 banger, A70-13 Firestones. Well there were 2
versions of the stock Vega engine. One had a different cam. Still
about 92 HP.

Because of the coil springs in the back I got all kinds of wheel hop if
I was not careful.

If you start with enough enough RPM's you could easily spin the tires.



And take out the clutch, u-joints, diff, or rear axles if you did it
too often. And A-70 13s were skinny tires

Skinny by today's standards, but most small American cars back then had
A78-13 tires. Still the same width but taller and less responsive to
handling




- I ran c70s on my 63
valiant and on my (don't die laughing) Pontiac Firenza (Vauxhaull HC
Magnum). The a 70 is equivalent to a 165-70 p metric tire - I call
them "bicycle tires" or "Roller skate wheels" A C70 was the same as a
215 p-metric and actually filled out the fender-wells a bit -
particularly on the F'renza with vega or chevette GT wheels (6 inch
width instead of the 4.5 or 5 inch Vauxhall rims)



IIRC about 6" for "A". A "C" was about 6.5", still pretty narrow.
The 70 did not make tires wider but made them "look" wider. Same is true
for 60, 50, etc series tires. You probably know that the number after
the letter represented the height of side wall to tread width ratio.

Old VW tires were 5.60-15's. Really narrow looking.



But the C was a lot wider than an A,

About .5" or 8% wider.



and a C 70 was about the same
diameter as an A78.

What is your point there?

What was YOUR point with:
IIRC about 6" for "A". A "C" was about 6.5", still pretty narrow.
The 70 did not make tires wider but made them "look" wider. Same is
true for 60, 50, etc series tires. You probably know that the number
after the letter represented the height of side wall to tread width
ratio.


And that wasn't an "old" volhswagen tire. An "old" VW beetle had 16
inch rims - with 500X16 tires. (I owned a '49 splitwindow beetle)


Are you saying a 65 VW is not old? 52 years...
There is old and ther is OLD. And there is "narrow looking" and there
is NARROW.

The whole discussion started with burning rubber in second gear with
a Vega GT. I said only with skinny tires. Most people who really DROVE
a Vega GT didn't replace the tires with A70s. (there were quite a few
C60 and D60 tires on Vegas and Astres around here. - and even 14
inchers with V6 and V8 transplants)


I am not trying to argue here, When you mentioned only with skinny tires
I was only making a point that the tires were as wide as any other
vehicle of that size, Pinto, Toyota, etc.

And Yes I really drove a Vega GT, it was my first car, got in in
November 1971 and had to order it from the factory. I was 17,

Yes I could spin the Firestone 70 series tires with the stock engine in
second gear.

I did replace the original set of RWL tires with BFG Lifesaver Radials.

Now I don't recall if the Lifesavers were A,B, or C but they did have
much more traction than the Firestone Wide Ovals and I could break the
tires loose then too.

Then engine in that car was crap. I replaced the short block in my
parents garage when the vehicle was 3 years old. A piston skirt broke
and allowed the piston to turn at an angle in the cylinder that punched
a hole in the cylinder.

I traded for a 75 Olds Starfire, new. Virtually the same vehicle as the
Vega other than body and engine. I always like the Vega other than the
engine. The Olds with the Buick V6 was a giant step forward in
durability. The Chev Monza, same car had a V8 with the same rated HP as
the V6, IIRC.

The whole discussion started with burning rubber in second gear
with a Vega GT. I said only with skinny tires.


My second car - '71 Vega not a GT bought in 1975 for $ 550.
- would leave a lot of smoke behind when I stomped on it ! :-)
It had flow-through ventillation - in through the rust holes in the
front fenders ; and out through the rust holes in the doors !
I drove it almost 2 1/2 years before the roadside safety check got me
- I was so afraid they'd pull it off the road and charge me - but
they let me go with 30 days to turn in the plates ! No ticket !
John T.

On 3/26/2017 6:57 PM, wrote:


The whole discussion started with burning rubber in second gear
with a Vega GT. I said only with skinny tires.


My second car - '71 Vega not a GT bought in 1975 for $ 550.
- would leave a lot of smoke behind when I stomped on it ! :-)
It had flow-through ventillation - in through the rust holes in the
front fenders ; and out through the rust holes in the doors !
I drove it almost 2 1/2 years before the roadside safety check got me
- I was so afraid they'd pull it off the road and charge me - but
they let me go with 30 days to turn in the plates ! No ticket !
John T.


I understand that the Vegas had rust issues but mine never has a speck
of rust on it. And I lived 3 miles from the Gulf Coast.

BUT I did wash and wax it almost every weekend and the dealer
undercoated it before we took delivery.

Before replacing the short block a trip to the gas station went like
this. Fill it with oil and check the gas.

And Yes I really drove a Vega GT, it was my first car, got in in
November 1971 and had to order it from the factory. I was 17,
Yes I could spin the Firestone 70 series tires with the stock engine in
second gear.


You were revving it up for so long - the oil blowing out of it was
coating everything within 50 feet - hence the tire spin ! :-)


I traded for a 75 Olds Starfire, new. Virtually the same vehicle as the
Vega other than body and engine. I always like the Vega other than the
engine.


The early Vega/Astra HAD no equal - thank goodness !

One of my fav Vega stories - I was stuck in a few inches of snow -
a kind neighbour plants his boots and braces one hand against the
drivers door handle and the other under the rear fender lip -
- he gives a good heave-ho and comes up with a piece of my
rear fender in his hand ! looking quite sheepish.
I thanked him and said - " You can keep that . "
This was a 5 year old car - big rust holes all along the top of both
front fenders ; the rest of the car getting very rusty, very quickly.
Engine blowing oil from the start. .. not a single good thing to say
about a '71 Vega. Whenever I see a brag about
Motor Trend Car-Of-The-Year
I think of the 1971 Vega ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_...ar_of_the_Year

John T.

On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 16:49:36 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:
...

And that wasn't an "old" volhswagen tire. An "old" VW beetle had 16
inch rims - with 500X16 tires. (I owned a '49 splitwindow beetle)


Are you saying a 65 VW is not old? 52 years...

Compared to most here, it seems, no. ;-)

On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 19:10:43 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/26/2017 6:57 PM, wrote:


The whole discussion started with burning rubber in second gear
with a Vega GT. I said only with skinny tires.


My second car - '71 Vega not a GT bought in 1975 for $ 550.
- would leave a lot of smoke behind when I stomped on it ! :-)
It had flow-through ventillation - in through the rust holes in the
front fenders ; and out through the rust holes in the doors !
I drove it almost 2 1/2 years before the roadside safety check got me
- I was so afraid they'd pull it off the road and charge me - but
they let me go with 30 days to turn in the plates ! No ticket !
John T.


I understand that the Vegas had rust issues but mine never has a speck
of rust on it. And I lived 3 miles from the Gulf Coast.

BUT I did wash and wax it almost every weekend and the dealer
undercoated it before we took delivery.

Before replacing the short block a trip to the gas station went like
this. Fill it with oil and check the gas.
Sounds like my '61 Mini 850 Mk1.50mpg of gas and 50mpq of oil. I was
running SAE50 with 3 cans of STP before I tore it down and rebuilt it.
196000 miles and no measurable wear on cyls or crank but halt the
rings were butter, and the other half glass.Shortly after the rebuild
the head let go - cracked around about half of the head bolt bosses
and lifted the head off the block. I got another head from the
wrecking yard, did the valves and put it back together. I got rid of
it at 214000 miles. The guy I sold it to brought it back a few months
later along with an "austin America" 1300 engine and trans designed
for 12 inch wheels. I put it in and they burned all 4 tires off in
just over a week, blowing the doors off Datsun 240Zs at stoplights.
Then they tore the rear subframe out doing handbrake power turns in a
donut shop parking lot.