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Default What is this old car, with rounded shell, inch thick wood interior?

Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?
http://i.cubeupload.com/rHHKQq.jpg

(*) round back http://i.cubeupload.com/RjfyRW.jpg
(*) wood interior http://i.cubeupload.com/JtyYNW.jpg
(*) external fenders http://i.cubeupload.com/9UecSp.jpg
(*) mounted on a frame http://i.cubeupload.com/gWrN0H.jpg

Is there a good way to tell what kind of solid wood was used?
And why would it have what looks like bullet holes in the back?
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Default What is this old car, with rounded shell, inch thick wood interior?

On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 18:29:31 +0000 (UTC), Alice Jones
wrote:

Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?
http://i.cubeupload.com/rHHKQq.jpg

(*) round back http://i.cubeupload.com/RjfyRW.jpg
(*) wood interior http://i.cubeupload.com/JtyYNW.jpg
(*) external fenders http://i.cubeupload.com/9UecSp.jpg
(*) mounted on a frame http://i.cubeupload.com/gWrN0H.jpg

Is there a good way to tell what kind of solid wood was used?
And why would it have what looks like bullet holes in the back?



1928 Durant
white ash
someone shot it

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On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 18:29:31 +0000 (UTC), Alice Jones
wrote:

Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?
http://i.cubeupload.com/rHHKQq.jpg

(*) round back http://i.cubeupload.com/RjfyRW.jpg
(*) wood interior http://i.cubeupload.com/JtyYNW.jpg
(*) external fenders http://i.cubeupload.com/9UecSp.jpg
(*) mounted on a frame http://i.cubeupload.com/gWrN0H.jpg

Is there a good way to tell what kind of solid wood was used?
And why would it have what looks like bullet holes in the back?

Looks to me a lot like a 31/32 Chevy Baby Grand, going by the shape,
the between-the rails rear mounted fuel tank, and the double bead at
the top of the body. Being an open body, not a sedan, I'd definitely
say there is a VERY good chance.
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On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 18:29:31 +0000 (UTC), Alice Jones
wrote:

Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?
http://i.cubeupload.com/rHHKQq.jpg

(*) round back http://i.cubeupload.com/RjfyRW.jpg
(*) wood interior http://i.cubeupload.com/JtyYNW.jpg
(*) external fenders http://i.cubeupload.com/9UecSp.jpg
(*) mounted on a frame http://i.cubeupload.com/gWrN0H.jpg

Is there a good way to tell what kind of solid wood was used?
And why would it have what looks like bullet holes in the back?

Ash and Oak were commonly used for automotive body framing - Fischer
Body division of General Motors used wood framing up untill 1937.
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What were 'Woodies' made from - station wagons were in the 50's.

We had Wood carrier top that had to have Spar put on it now and then.
I want to say the tailgate also, but not the sides.

Martin

On 3/18/2017 4:12 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 18:29:31 +0000 (UTC), Alice Jones
wrote:

Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?
http://i.cubeupload.com/rHHKQq.jpg

(*) round back http://i.cubeupload.com/RjfyRW.jpg
(*) wood interior http://i.cubeupload.com/JtyYNW.jpg
(*) external fenders http://i.cubeupload.com/9UecSp.jpg
(*) mounted on a frame http://i.cubeupload.com/gWrN0H.jpg

Is there a good way to tell what kind of solid wood was used?
And why would it have what looks like bullet holes in the back?

Ash and Oak were commonly used for automotive body framing - Fischer
Body division of General Motors used wood framing up untill 1937.



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On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 21:16:06 -0500, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

What were 'Woodies' made from - station wagons were in the 50's.

We had Wood carrier top that had to have Spar put on it now and then.
I want to say the tailgate also, but not the sides.

Martin

On 3/18/2017 4:12 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 18:29:31 +0000 (UTC), Alice Jones
wrote:

Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?
http://i.cubeupload.com/rHHKQq.jpg

(*) round back http://i.cubeupload.com/RjfyRW.jpg
(*) wood interior http://i.cubeupload.com/JtyYNW.jpg
(*) external fenders http://i.cubeupload.com/9UecSp.jpg
(*) mounted on a frame http://i.cubeupload.com/gWrN0H.jpg

Is there a good way to tell what kind of solid wood was used?
And why would it have what looks like bullet holes in the back?

Ash and Oak were commonly used for automotive body framing - Fischer
Body division of General Motors used wood framing up untill 1937.

The Chrysler Town and Country convertible in the forties just had
decorative wood trim on an all steel body, as did Ford's woodies from
'53 on. Very shortly thereafter, even that trim was "fake wood"
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On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 15:22:43 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 18:29:31 +0000 (UTC), Alice Jones
wrote:

Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?
http://i.cubeupload.com/rHHKQq.jpg

(*) round back http://i.cubeupload.com/RjfyRW.jpg
(*) wood interior http://i.cubeupload.com/JtyYNW.jpg
(*) external fenders http://i.cubeupload.com/9UecSp.jpg
(*) mounted on a frame http://i.cubeupload.com/gWrN0H.jpg

Is there a good way to tell what kind of solid wood was used?
And why would it have what looks like bullet holes in the back?



1928 Durant
white ash
someone shot it


The body looks more like a two door from the sheet metal in front of
the rear fender, and the fender rolls over the tire too much for a 28
durant.
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Default What is this old car, with rounded shell, inch thickwood interior?

Alice Jones wrote:
Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?
http://i.cubeupload.com/rHHKQq.jpg

(*) round back http://i.cubeupload.com/RjfyRW.jpg
(*) wood interior http://i.cubeupload.com/JtyYNW.jpg
(*) external fenders http://i.cubeupload.com/9UecSp.jpg
(*) mounted on a frame http://i.cubeupload.com/gWrN0H.jpg

Is there a good way to tell what kind of solid wood was used?
And why would it have what looks like bullet holes in the back?

69 Mustang, V8, with AC

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Alice Jones was heard to mutter:

Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?
http://i.cubeupload.com/rHHKQq.jpg

(*) round back http://i.cubeupload.com/RjfyRW.jpg
(*) wood interior http://i.cubeupload.com/JtyYNW.jpg
(*) external fenders http://i.cubeupload.com/9UecSp.jpg
(*) mounted on a frame http://i.cubeupload.com/gWrN0H.jpg

Is there a good way to tell what kind of solid wood was used?
And why would it have what looks like bullet holes in the back?


For comparison...
http://car-from-uk.com/sale.php?id=39076
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Casper wrote:

Alice Jones was heard to mutter:

Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?
http://i.cubeupload.com/rHHKQq.jpg

(*) round back http://i.cubeupload.com/RjfyRW.jpg
(*) wood interior http://i.cubeupload.com/JtyYNW.jpg
(*) external fenders http://i.cubeupload.com/9UecSp.jpg
(*) mounted on a frame http://i.cubeupload.com/gWrN0H.jpg

Is there a good way to tell what kind of solid wood was used?
And why would it have what looks like bullet holes in the back?


For comparison...
http://car-from-uk.com/sale.php?id=39076


So it was *not* a 1928 Durant D-60 4-door Sedan.



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On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 10:18:25 -0400, Casper
wrote:

Alice Jones was heard to mutter:

Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?
http://i.cubeupload.com/rHHKQq.jpg

(*) round back http://i.cubeupload.com/RjfyRW.jpg
(*) wood interior http://i.cubeupload.com/JtyYNW.jpg
(*) external fenders http://i.cubeupload.com/9UecSp.jpg
(*) mounted on a frame http://i.cubeupload.com/gWrN0H.jpg

Is there a good way to tell what kind of solid wood was used?
And why would it have what looks like bullet holes in the back?


For comparison...
http://car-from-uk.com/sale.php?id=39076

Note the Durant doesn't have the "double bead" across the back of the
body. That is pretty common on the GM cars of the period - and the
rounded, curved in at the bottom profile was pretty well exclusive to
1932 - '28-30 were a lot straighter, for sure.

It's NOT a Durant - only a 28 Star would be close, and it does not
have a one piece pressed steel bustle - the sides and rear quarters
are separate and have a "bead" vertically on both sides to join them.
This is a pressed steel "bucket" - That, with the double bead around
the top of the beltline, rules our any Durant - and if it's a Chevy
pretty well narrows it down ro a '32 . On closer inspection, it's not
a touring or Phaeton because the door of a phaeton or fordoor would
go back over the fender

So whatever it is, it started life as a 2 door, it's a stamped steel
tub, I'd say LIKELY a 32 Chevy 2 door with the roof cut off.
(Assuming it is a North American built vehicle)
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On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 10:18:25 -0400, Casper
wrote:

Alice Jones was heard to mutter:

Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?
http://i.cubeupload.com/rHHKQq.jpg

(*) round back http://i.cubeupload.com/RjfyRW.jpg
(*) wood interior http://i.cubeupload.com/JtyYNW.jpg
(*) external fenders http://i.cubeupload.com/9UecSp.jpg
(*) mounted on a frame http://i.cubeupload.com/gWrN0H.jpg

Is there a good way to tell what kind of solid wood was used?
And why would it have what looks like bullet holes in the back?


For comparison...
http://car-from-uk.com/sale.php?id=39076

As I said - no double bead at the top, and it's a 3 piece body
instead of a preswsed steal tub. Defineitely NOT a Durant of any
stripe.
Almost CERTAINLY a 32 Chevy from all the clues.
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wrote:

On closer inspection, it's not a touring or Phaeton because the door of a
phaeton or fordoor would go back over the fender


For me, that was clue that it couldn't be the model Casper linked to in
his post.

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On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 14:45:55 -0600, (Neill
Massello) wrote:

Casper wrote:

Alice Jones was heard to mutter:

Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?
http://i.cubeupload.com/rHHKQq.jpg

(*) round back http://i.cubeupload.com/RjfyRW.jpg
(*) wood interior http://i.cubeupload.com/JtyYNW.jpg
(*) external fenders http://i.cubeupload.com/9UecSp.jpg
(*) mounted on a frame http://i.cubeupload.com/gWrN0H.jpg

Is there a good way to tell what kind of solid wood was used?
And why would it have what looks like bullet holes in the back?


For comparison...
http://car-from-uk.com/sale.php?id=39076


So it was *not* a 1928 Durant D-60 4-door Sedan.

Take a look at ANY durant - the closest would be a 28 Star (or
"RUGBY" as it was exported as) but the Durany is a 3 piece tub, not a
stamped steel tub as shown - and the side panel is too long for a 4
door or touring.
I've been around a lot of old cars - and the first thing that came to
mind, with the way the gas tank is mounted, the double "bead" or
"feature line" around the top, the moderate curve to the obviously
stamped steel tub, and the lever shocks peaking through the floor on
the one picture is "32 Chebby". Looked like a Phaeton except the side
panel matches a 2 door body, not a 4.- and all "Chebbies" of that era
did not have a separate roof - so it looks like somebody took off the
roof to make a "topless" two door - not to use the roof elsewheere
because the "riser" which would be left after removing the roof
appears to have been metal-worked out (if indead it WAS a 2dr Chebby)

I'm still wracking my brain to find a better answer.
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On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 19:24:34 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 14:45:55 -0600,
(Neill
Massello) wrote:

Casper wrote:

Alice Jones was heard to mutter:

Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?
http://i.cubeupload.com/rHHKQq.jpg

(*) round back http://i.cubeupload.com/RjfyRW.jpg
(*) wood interior http://i.cubeupload.com/JtyYNW.jpg
(*) external fenders http://i.cubeupload.com/9UecSp.jpg
(*) mounted on a frame http://i.cubeupload.com/gWrN0H.jpg

Is there a good way to tell what kind of solid wood was used?
And why would it have what looks like bullet holes in the back?

For comparison...
http://car-from-uk.com/sale.php?id=39076


So it was *not* a 1928 Durant D-60 4-door Sedan.

Take a look at ANY durant - the closest would be a 28 Star (or
"RUGBY" as it was exported as) but the Durany is a 3 piece tub, not a
stamped steel tub as shown - and the side panel is too long for a 4
door or touring.
I've been around a lot of old cars - and the first thing that came to
mind, with the way the gas tank is mounted, the double "bead" or
"feature line" around the top, the moderate curve to the obviously
stamped steel tub, and the lever shocks peaking through the floor on
the one picture is "32 Chebby". Looked like a Phaeton except the side
panel matches a 2 door body, not a 4.- and all "Chebbies" of that era
did not have a separate roof - so it looks like somebody took off the
roof to make a "topless" two door - not to use the roof elsewheere
because the "riser" which would be left after removing the roof
appears to have been metal-worked out (if indead it WAS a 2dr Chebby)

I'm still wracking my brain to find a better answer.


H'mmm, you just answered a question I had in my head, I saw a 2dr
Chevy sedan and the tub near as I could see, seemed to fit, and I saw
a sedan where the top was off, but there was a wooden post left
attached to the hub.


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On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 10:28:28 -0400, Casper
wrote:

On closer inspection, it's not a touring or Phaeton because the door of a
phaeton or fordoor would go back over the fender claire@snyder


(Neill Massello) was heard to mutter:
For me, that was clue that it couldn't be the model Casper linked to in
his post.


I only posted the link for visual reference to a (any) Durant as
hubops mentioned it.

FWIW, after looking at the back of a few Chevys (got a friend in a car
club with a few Chevys, Fords, etc), can't say I see a resemblance.

I'm not as into cars as some and anyway I prefer British ones.

Looks like Mother Earth is taking all those parts back in the photos.

There is only ONE YEAR of Chevy yhat resembles that body - and it
resembles it very closely. That year is 1932. NOT 1931, and NOT 1933.
Totally different animals. 1932 was a 1 year only "baby Cadillac"

see:
http://cdn.barrett-jackson.com/stagi...rofile_Web.jpg
and
http://www.remarkablecars.com/main/c...te-sedan-3.jpg
That one is a deluxe, not a standard. Deluxe is a "6 wheeler" while
the standard only has one spare, on the rear.
It is also a 4 door - so you can see the one referenced by the OP
definitely is NOT a 4 door anything.
Here is another 2 door - not as rough as the one referenced --
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...d1c053f025.jpg
and another
http://dansoldcars.net/100_4056.jpg
http://dansoldcars.net/100_3335.jpg
and another:
http://davidsclassiccars.com/images/...dr-sedan-5.jpg
and another:
http://www.cars-on-line.com/photo/50...hev50237-1.jpg
and another:
http://davidsclassiccars.com/images/...ent-orig-7.jpg
and another:
http://smclassiccars.com/uploads/pos...-hot-rod-5.JPG
Note the "feature lines" at the beltline. and around the bottom of
the "tub" - and the gastank cover.
In all my years working on and playing with old cars I have not seen
ANY other vehicle that so closely matches the "tub" referenced by the
OP. It IS rather unique, when you get right down to it.
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On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 16:38:11 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 10:28:28 -0400, Casper
wrote:

On closer inspection, it's not a touring or Phaeton because the door of a
phaeton or fordoor would go back over the fender claire@snyder


(Neill Massello) was heard to mutter:
For me, that was clue that it couldn't be the model Casper linked to in
his post.


I only posted the link for visual reference to a (any) Durant as
hubops mentioned it.

FWIW, after looking at the back of a few Chevys (got a friend in a car
club with a few Chevys, Fords, etc), can't say I see a resemblance.

I'm not as into cars as some and anyway I prefer British ones.

Looks like Mother Earth is taking all those parts back in the photos.

There is only ONE YEAR of Chevy yhat resembles that body - and it
resembles it very closely. That year is 1932. NOT 1931, and NOT 1933.
Totally different animals. 1932 was a 1 year only "baby Cadillac"

see:
http://cdn.barrett-jackson.com/stagi...rofile_Web.jpg

I'd say this matches it to a "T"

Looking at what you posted here I'd love to have the body, with a
chassis tag for registration and channel the body by setting it over a
frame and chop the top to about an 8" window, put a Tbird rear seat
(cocktail lounge style) from a late middle 60's in the rear, nice
buckets up front, a built 4 bolt main Chevy 350 with a Paxton blower
with side drafts on it, plus the usual goodies with laughing gas for
special occasions. Done up in chrome with a deep lacquer black cherry
paint job. Make a nice Sunday family drive car, or Friday and
Saturday evening car for cruising and hanging out at a good burger
place.

Even a decent rat rod would be good when your too busy with other
stuff.

and
http://www.remarkablecars.com/main/c...te-sedan-3.jpg
That one is a deluxe, not a standard. Deluxe is a "6 wheeler" while
the standard only has one spare, on the rear.
It is also a 4 door - so you can see the one referenced by the OP
definitely is NOT a 4 door anything.
Here is another 2 door - not as rough as the one referenced --
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...d1c053f025.jpg
and another
http://dansoldcars.net/100_4056.jpg
http://dansoldcars.net/100_3335.jpg
and another:
http://davidsclassiccars.com/images/...dr-sedan-5.jpg
and another:
http://www.cars-on-line.com/photo/50...hev50237-1.jpg
and another:
http://davidsclassiccars.com/images/...ent-orig-7.jpg
and another:
http://smclassiccars.com/uploads/pos...-hot-rod-5.JPG
Note the "feature lines" at the beltline. and around the bottom of
the "tub" - and the gastank cover.
In all my years working on and playing with old cars I have not seen
ANY other vehicle that so closely matches the "tub" referenced by the
OP. It IS rather unique, when you get right down to it.

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On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 1:29:35 PM UTC-5, Alice Jones wrote:
Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?
http://i.cubeupload.com/rHHKQq.jpg

(*) round back http://i.cubeupload.com/RjfyRW.jpg
(*) wood interior http://i.cubeupload.com/JtyYNW.jpg
(*) external fenders http://i.cubeupload.com/9UecSp.jpg
(*) mounted on a frame http://i.cubeupload.com/gWrN0H.jpg

Is there a good way to tell what kind of solid wood was used?
And why would it have what looks like bullet holes in the back?


Cars are not my thing, but I have a friend who could put it back in pristine condition. What the man does is simply amazing. He just finished his last restoration (he is retiring), which was a 32 Ford Cabrolet. When he started all he had was a body, which was in much worse shape than what you are showing here (rusted up 4-6" all around the bottom, no floor pan, no top mechanism, no rumble seat, no hood, no chassis) , and the cowl. He delivered it (drove it over to the owner's house) Sunday and you could comb your hair in the paint job.
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On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 05:26:13 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Deb"
wrote:

On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 1:29:35 PM UTC-5, Alice Jones wrote:
Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?
http://i.cubeupload.com/rHHKQq.jpg

(*) round back http://i.cubeupload.com/RjfyRW.jpg
(*) wood interior http://i.cubeupload.com/JtyYNW.jpg
(*) external fenders http://i.cubeupload.com/9UecSp.jpg
(*) mounted on a frame http://i.cubeupload.com/gWrN0H.jpg

Is there a good way to tell what kind of solid wood was used?
And why would it have what looks like bullet holes in the back?


Cars are not my thing, but I have a friend who could put it back in pristine condition. What the man does is simply amazing. He just finished his last restoration (he is retiring), which was a 32 Ford Cabrolet. When he started all he had was a body, which was in much worse shape than what you are showing here (rusted up 4-6" all around the bottom, no floor pan, no top mechanism, no rumble seat, no hood, no chassis) , and the cowl. He delivered it (drove it over to the owner's house) Sunday and you could comb your hair in the paint job.

I've seen some real magic done too, but there is hardly enough left
of that Chevy to make it worth while. Lots of more complete vehicles
around that even if more expensive to buy, will cost MUCH less to
complete.
That "tub" might be a good repair part for a more badly rusted, more
complete, vehicle.


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OFWW wrote in
:

Looking at what you posted here I'd love to have the body, with a
chassis tag for registration and channel the body by setting it over a
frame and chop the top to about an 8" window, put a Tbird rear seat
(cocktail lounge style) from a late middle 60's in the rear, nice
buckets up front, a built 4 bolt main Chevy 350 with a Paxton blower
with side drafts on it, plus the usual goodies with laughing gas for
special occasions. Done up in chrome with a deep lacquer black cherry
paint job. Make a nice Sunday family drive car, or Friday and
Saturday evening car for cruising and hanging out at a good burger
place.


A Paxton supercharger? Not a 6-71? Granted, the Paxton
will probably work a lot better (and be a lot cheaper), but
the 6-71 has that classic blown hot-rod appearance.

John
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On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 3:47:22 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 05:26:13 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Deb"



On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 1:29:35 PM UTC-5, Alice Jones wrote:
Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?
http://i.cubeupload.com/rHHKQq.jpg

(*) round back http://i.cubeupload.com/RjfyRW.jpg
(*) wood interior http://i.cubeupload.com/JtyYNW.jpg
(*) external fenders http://i.cubeupload.com/9UecSp.jpg
(*) mounted on a frame http://i.cubeupload.com/gWrN0H.jpg

Is there a good way to tell what kind of solid wood was used?
And why would it have what looks like bullet holes in the back?


Cars are not my thing, but I have a friend who could put it back in pristine condition. What the man does is simply amazing. He just finished his last restoration (he is retiring), which was a 32 Ford Cabrolet. When he started all he had was a body, which was in much worse shape than what you are showing here (rusted up 4-6" all around the bottom, no floor pan, no top mechanism, no rumble seat, no hood, no chassis) , and the cowl. He delivered it (drove it over to the owner's house) Sunday and you could comb your hair in the paint job.

I've seen some real magic done too, but there is hardly enough left
of that Chevy to make it worth while. Lots of more complete vehicles
around that even if more expensive to buy, will cost MUCH less to
complete.
That "tub" might be a good repair part for a more badly rusted, more
complete, vehicle.


Believe me, on the last car, and it was also the last car he is doing, he had much less to start with and rolled out his door looking like it just came out of the showroom.
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On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 05:05:52 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Deb"
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 3:47:22 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 05:26:13 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Deb"



On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 1:29:35 PM UTC-5, Alice Jones wrote:
Can you tell anything about this old auto from the photos?
http://i.cubeupload.com/rHHKQq.jpg

(*) round back http://i.cubeupload.com/RjfyRW.jpg
(*) wood interior http://i.cubeupload.com/JtyYNW.jpg
(*) external fenders http://i.cubeupload.com/9UecSp.jpg
(*) mounted on a frame http://i.cubeupload.com/gWrN0H.jpg

Is there a good way to tell what kind of solid wood was used?
And why would it have what looks like bullet holes in the back?

Cars are not my thing, but I have a friend who could put it back in pristine condition. What the man does is simply amazing. He just finished his last restoration (he is retiring), which was a 32 Ford Cabrolet. When he started all he had was a body, which was in much worse shape than what you are showing here (rusted up 4-6" all around the bottom, no floor pan, no top mechanism, no rumble seat, no hood, no chassis) , and the cowl. He delivered it (drove it over to the owner's house) Sunday and you could comb your hair in the paint job.

I've seen some real magic done too, but there is hardly enough left
of that Chevy to make it worth while. Lots of more complete vehicles
around that even if more expensive to buy, will cost MUCH less to
complete.
That "tub" might be a good repair part for a more badly rusted, more
complete, vehicle.


Believe me, on the last car, and it was also the last car he is doing, he had much less to start with and rolled out his door looking like it just came out of the showroom.

Like I said - anything is possible - including building an accurate
reproduction from scratch - but that only really makes sense for very
rare cars - not a '32 Chevy. with totally roached fenders, no doors or
front sheet metal and no roof.
Except for rare vehicles, it NEVER makes any financial sense (and yes,
I HAVE restored some old vehicles, including a few "basket cases"
Even at Barrett Jackson auctions, you can usually buy very good to
excellent cars for significantly less than the cost to build - even
strting from a reasonably good junker.
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Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

I was watching Velocity. A restorer found a Stutz Bearcat unmodified
and pretty much in running condition hidden away in a garage. They
bought it and just cleaned it up and then entered it in the Bebble
Beach Show and won first prize for not restoring. It ran well
considering it's age. 1921 model.


That seems to be a thing now. It's a bit like patina on
old tools - as long as the car is sound, the less you do
to it the more it's valued.

John

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John McCoy writes:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

I was watching Velocity. A restorer found a Stutz Bearcat unmodified
and pretty much in running condition hidden away in a garage. They
bought it and just cleaned it up and then entered it in the Bebble
Beach Show and won first prize for not restoring. It ran well
considering it's age. 1921 model.


That seems to be a thing now. It's a bit like patina on
old tools - as long as the car is sound, the less you do
to it the more it's valued.


I wonder if that's because most restorations seldom get back
what was put into them?
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On 3/23/2017 3:45 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
John McCoy writes:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

I was watching Velocity. A restorer found a Stutz Bearcat unmodified
and pretty much in running condition hidden away in a garage. They
bought it and just cleaned it up and then entered it in the Bebble
Beach Show and won first prize for not restoring. It ran well
considering it's age. 1921 model.


That seems to be a thing now. It's a bit like patina on
old tools - as long as the car is sound, the less you do
to it the more it's valued.


I wonder if that's because most restorations seldom get back
what was put into them?


That would make perfect sense. I can not think of any other reason.

OR to keep it authentic. Paint not so much but I would imagine it would
be very difficult to find parts for a very old vehicle.
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On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 16:37:48 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/23/2017 3:45 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
John McCoy writes:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

I was watching Velocity. A restorer found a Stutz Bearcat unmodified
and pretty much in running condition hidden away in a garage. They
bought it and just cleaned it up and then entered it in the Bebble
Beach Show and won first prize for not restoring. It ran well
considering it's age. 1921 model.

That seems to be a thing now. It's a bit like patina on
old tools - as long as the car is sound, the less you do
to it the more it's valued.


I wonder if that's because most restorations seldom get back
what was put into them?


That would make perfect sense. I can not think of any other reason.

OR to keep it authentic. Paint not so much but I would imagine it would
be very difficult to find parts for a very old vehicle.

The big reason is "it's only original once"
An "as found" that is not wearing it's original paint may as well be
restored, as it is no longer "original"
An "original" "survivor" car is a very rare thing - particularly
something like a '21 Bearcat.
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On 3/23/2017 11:42 AM, Leon wrote:

I was watching Velocity. A restorer found a Stutz Bearcat unmodified
and pretty much in running condition hidden away in a garage. They
bought it and just cleaned it up and then entered it in the Pebble Beach
Show and won first prize for not restoring. It ran well considering
it's age. 1921 model.



When you drive a new car off the lot you lose at least 10% so it has
lost a lot of value. Even worse, it is a discontinued model. Not worth
much more than scrap value, I'd guess.


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On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:03:48 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/23/2017 11:42 AM, Leon wrote:

I was watching Velocity. A restorer found a Stutz Bearcat unmodified
and pretty much in running condition hidden away in a garage. They
bought it and just cleaned it up and then entered it in the Pebble Beach
Show and won first prize for not restoring. It ran well considering
it's age. 1921 model.



When you drive a new car off the lot you lose at least 10% so it has
lost a lot of value. Even worse, it is a discontinued model. Not worth
much more than scrap value, I'd guess.


A Stutz? I guess you haven't seen the auto auctions on the TeeVee.
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On Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 7:25:48 AM UTC-5, wrote:
..
Except for rare vehicles, it NEVER makes any financial sense (and yes,
I HAVE restored some old vehicles, including a few "basket cases"
Even at Barrett Jackson auctions, you can usually buy very good to
excellent cars for significantly less than the cost to build - even
strting from a reasonably good junker.


One of my long time friends would certainly give you an "AMEN" on that. He loved early Mustangs and the old 240Z from Datsun.

The amount of knowledge needed to "authentically restore" the cars correctly was staggering. The money needed to find original parts, just as much. The time to learn what to do, which parts went on which variant (depending on manufacturing dates, etc.) and on and on was a full time job. He gave up on the last Mustang and sold it dismantled for parts as he couldn't get it restored to his standards. After about 5-6 years in the garage, his wife stepped in, and that was that.

He got two 240s up and running and couldn't find the parts needed to restore them. He found that certain pieces from 260s fit the 240s, so he went that route. Now all he had when finished was a running sports car.

He lost money on all of his efforts. Restoring is 1) a labor of love and/or 2) a full time job.

We went to a local car show after that, and he was crushed as he found what I had told him all along, you can buy a finished product for about 1/2 (or less) of what it costs to restore one in your garage by yourself. He hasn't turned a wrench to restore a vehicle since.

Check out the prices on some of these mid 60s Mustangs:

https://goo.gl/d0Hsfv

Check out the '69 Ford Fastback Mustang with the 351 Cleveland V8 and less than 19,000 miles. Great paint, Cragar mags, new shoes, and $28,500. No muss, no fuss. My boy had 25K in the engine rebuild, transmission rebuild, new drive shaft and rebuilt rear end of the '67 he was last working on. That did include the J.C. Whitney (remember them?) interior kit that was formed carpet, door panels, and seat covers that were sitting in the car when he sold it. He needed a new steering wheel, appropriate AM radio, all knobs and handles, badges, body work, paint, and the correct age rims. He figured another 10K and a couple of years of his elbow grease and he would have it finished if he had found the time.

He sold the car (not running) with the papers on the rebuilds along with all the parts and pieces he collected for $5500 after coming down on his price many times. The guy that bought it was a lucky break for him as he bought it as a project for him and his son that was a 16 year old motor head.

Robert
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On 3/23/2017 8:03 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/23/2017 11:42 AM, Leon wrote:

I was watching Velocity. A restorer found a Stutz Bearcat unmodified
and pretty much in running condition hidden away in a garage. They
bought it and just cleaned it up and then entered it in the Pebble Beach
Show and won first prize for not restoring. It ran well considering
it's age. 1921 model.



When you drive a new car off the lot you lose at least 10% so it has
lost a lot of value. Even worse, it is a discontinued model. Not worth
much more than scrap value, I'd guess.



Well actually it loses value because if you immediately trade it in it
has to be sold at a profit again, and no one is going to pay more than
retail.


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On 3/24/2017 12:58 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 7:25:48 AM UTC-5, wrote:
.
Except for rare vehicles, it NEVER makes any financial sense (and yes,
I HAVE restored some old vehicles, including a few "basket cases"
Even at Barrett Jackson auctions, you can usually buy very good to
excellent cars for significantly less than the cost to build - even
strting from a reasonably good junker.


One of my long time friends would certainly give you an "AMEN" on that. He loved early Mustangs and the old 240Z from Datsun.

The amount of knowledge needed to "authentically restore" the cars correctly was staggering. The money needed to find original parts, just as much. The time to learn what to do, which parts went on which variant (depending on manufacturing dates, etc.) and on and on was a full time job. He gave up on the last Mustang and sold it dismantled for parts as he couldn't get it restored to his standards. After about 5-6 years in the garage, his wife stepped in, and that was that.

He got two 240s up and running and couldn't find the parts needed to restore them. He found that certain pieces from 260s fit the 240s, so he went that route. Now all he had when finished was a running sports car.

He lost money on all of his efforts. Restoring is 1) a labor of love and/or 2) a full time job.

We went to a local car show after that, and he was crushed as he found what I had told him all along, you can buy a finished product for about 1/2 (or less) of what it costs to restore one in your garage by yourself. He hasn't turned a wrench to restore a vehicle since.

Check out the prices on some of these mid 60s Mustangs:

https://goo.gl/d0Hsfv

Check out the '69 Ford Fastback Mustang with the 351 Cleveland V8 and less than 19,000 miles. Great paint, Cragar mags, new shoes, and $28,500. No muss, no fuss. My boy had 25K in the engine rebuild, transmission rebuild, new drive shaft and rebuilt rear end of the '67 he was last working on. That did include the J.C. Whitney (remember them?) interior kit that was formed carpet, door panels, and seat covers that were sitting in the car when he sold it. He needed a new steering wheel, appropriate AM radio, all knobs and handles, badges, body work, paint, and the correct age rims. He figured another 10K and a couple of years of his elbow grease and he would have it finished if he had found the time.

He sold the car (not running) with the papers on the rebuilds along with all the parts and pieces he collected for $5500 after coming down on his price many times. The guy that bought it was a lucky break for him as he bought it as a project for him and his son that was a 16 year old motor head.

Robert


WOW! Things have changed. My son and I used to visit "Street of Dreams"
in Sugar Land about 10~15 years ago. Old Mustangs were going for $40K+
They only had American that was 30+ years old and the average price was
about 10 times original. I remember $65K for an old Road Runner with
painted wheels and hub caps.
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In article MomdnWLWe_muA0jFnZ2dnUU7-
, lcb11211@swbelldotnet
says...

On 3/24/2017 12:58 AM,
wrote:
On Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 7:25:48 AM UTC-5, wrote:
.
Except for rare vehicles, it NEVER makes any financial sense (and yes,
I HAVE restored some old vehicles, including a few "basket cases"
Even at Barrett Jackson auctions, you can usually buy very good to
excellent cars for significantly less than the cost to build - even
strting from a reasonably good junker.


One of my long time friends would certainly give you an "AMEN" on that. He loved early Mustangs and the old 240Z from Datsun.

The amount of knowledge needed to "authentically restore" the cars correctly was staggering. The money needed to find original parts, just as much. The time to learn what to do, which parts went on which variant (depending on manufacturing dates, etc.) and on and on was a full time job. He gave up on the last Mustang and sold it dismantled for parts as he couldn't get it restored to his standards. After about 5-6 years in the garage, his wife stepped in, and that

was that.

He got two 240s up and running and couldn't find the parts needed to restore them. He found that certain pieces from 260s fit the 240s, so he went that route. Now all he had when finished was a running sports car.

He lost money on all of his efforts. Restoring is 1) a labor of love and/or 2) a full time job.

We went to a local car show after that, and he was crushed as he found what I had told him all along, you can buy a finished product for about 1/2 (or less) of what it costs to restore one in your garage by yourself. He hasn't turned a wrench to restore a vehicle since.

Check out the prices on some of these mid 60s Mustangs:

https://goo.gl/d0Hsfv

Check out the '69 Ford Fastback Mustang with the 351 Cleveland V8 and less than 19,000 miles. Great paint, Cragar mags, new shoes, and $28,500. No muss, no fuss. My boy had 25K in the engine rebuild, transmission rebuild, new drive shaft and rebuilt rear end of the '67 he was last working on. That did include the J.C. Whitney (remember them?) interior kit that was formed carpet, door panels, and seat covers that were sitting in the car when he sold it. He needed

a new steering wheel, appropriate AM radio, all knobs and handles, badges, body work, paint, and the correct age rims. He figured another 10K and a couple of years of his elbow grease and he would have it finished if he had found the time.

He sold the car (not running) with the papers on the rebuilds along with all the parts and pieces he collected for $5500 after coming down on his price many times. The guy that bought it was a lucky break for him as he bought it as a project for him and his son that was a 16 year old motor head.

Robert


WOW! Things have changed. My son and I used to visit "Street of Dreams"
in Sugar Land about 10~15 years ago. Old Mustangs were going for $40K+
They only had American that was 30+ years old and the average price was
about 10 times original. I remember $65K for an old Road Runner with
painted wheels and hub caps.


I think one thing that has changed is that
American cars 15-20 years ago were a shadow of
their former selves. Now the performance is
back with a vengeance--who'd a thunk we'd ever
see a _stock_ Caddy that does sub-12-second
quarters and tops out at 200?
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On 3/24/2017 5:55 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article MomdnWLWe_muA0jFnZ2dnUU7-
, lcb11211@swbelldotnet
says...

On 3/24/2017 12:58 AM,
wrote:
On Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 7:25:48 AM UTC-5, wrote:
.
Except for rare vehicles, it NEVER makes any financial sense (and yes,
I HAVE restored some old vehicles, including a few "basket cases"
Even at Barrett Jackson auctions, you can usually buy very good to
excellent cars for significantly less than the cost to build - even
strting from a reasonably good junker.

One of my long time friends would certainly give you an "AMEN" on that. He loved early Mustangs and the old 240Z from Datsun.

The amount of knowledge needed to "authentically restore" the cars correctly was staggering. The money needed to find original parts, just as much. The time to learn what to do, which parts went on which variant (depending on manufacturing dates, etc.) and on and on was a full time job. He gave up on the last Mustang and sold it dismantled for parts as he couldn't get it restored to his standards. After about 5-6 years in the garage, his wife stepped in, and that

was that.

He got two 240s up and running and couldn't find the parts needed to restore them. He found that certain pieces from 260s fit the 240s, so he went that route. Now all he had when finished was a running sports car.

He lost money on all of his efforts. Restoring is 1) a labor of love and/or 2) a full time job.

We went to a local car show after that, and he was crushed as he found what I had told him all along, you can buy a finished product for about 1/2 (or less) of what it costs to restore one in your garage by yourself. He hasn't turned a wrench to restore a vehicle since.

Check out the prices on some of these mid 60s Mustangs:

https://goo.gl/d0Hsfv

Check out the '69 Ford Fastback Mustang with the 351 Cleveland V8 and less than 19,000 miles. Great paint, Cragar mags, new shoes, and $28,500. No muss, no fuss. My boy had 25K in the engine rebuild, transmission rebuild, new drive shaft and rebuilt rear end of the '67 he was last working on. That did include the J.C. Whitney (remember them?) interior kit that was formed carpet, door panels, and seat covers that were sitting in the car when he sold it. He needed

a new steering wheel, appropriate AM radio, all knobs and handles, badges, body work, paint, and the correct age rims. He figured another 10K and a couple of years of his elbow grease and he would have it finished if he had found the time.

He sold the car (not running) with the papers on the rebuilds along with all the parts and pieces he collected for $5500 after coming down on his price many times. The guy that bought it was a lucky break for him as he bought it as a project for him and his son that was a 16 year old motor head.

Robert


WOW! Things have changed. My son and I used to visit "Street of Dreams"
in Sugar Land about 10~15 years ago. Old Mustangs were going for $40K+
They only had American that was 30+ years old and the average price was
about 10 times original. I remember $65K for an old Road Runner with
painted wheels and hub caps.


I think one thing that has changed is that
American cars 15-20 years ago were a shadow of
their former selves. Now the performance is
back with a vengeance--who'd a thunk we'd ever
see a _stock_ Caddy that does sub-12-second
quarters and tops out at 200?


It was all about getting rid of carburetors and adding electronics.
Those two things added HP "and" fuel economy.


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On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:31:05 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2017 12:58 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 7:25:48 AM UTC-5, wrote:
.
Except for rare vehicles, it NEVER makes any financial sense (and yes,
I HAVE restored some old vehicles, including a few "basket cases"
Even at Barrett Jackson auctions, you can usually buy very good to
excellent cars for significantly less than the cost to build - even
strting from a reasonably good junker.


One of my long time friends would certainly give you an "AMEN" on that. He loved early Mustangs and the old 240Z from Datsun.

The amount of knowledge needed to "authentically restore" the cars correctly was staggering. The money needed to find original parts, just as much. The time to learn what to do, which parts went on which variant (depending on manufacturing dates, etc.) and on and on was a full time job. He gave up on the last Mustang and sold it dismantled for parts as he couldn't get it restored to his standards. After about 5-6 years in the garage, his wife stepped in, and that was that.

He got two 240s up and running and couldn't find the parts needed to restore them. He found that certain pieces from 260s fit the 240s, so he went that route. Now all he had when finished was a running sports car.

He lost money on all of his efforts. Restoring is 1) a labor of love and/or 2) a full time job.

We went to a local car show after that, and he was crushed as he found what I had told him all along, you can buy a finished product for about 1/2 (or less) of what it costs to restore one in your garage by yourself. He hasn't turned a wrench to restore a vehicle since.

Check out the prices on some of these mid 60s Mustangs:

https://goo.gl/d0Hsfv

Check out the '69 Ford Fastback Mustang with the 351 Cleveland V8 and less than 19,000 miles. Great paint, Cragar mags, new shoes, and $28,500. No muss, no fuss. My boy had 25K in the engine rebuild, transmission rebuild, new drive shaft and rebuilt rear end of the '67 he was last working on. That did include the J.C. Whitney (remember them?) interior kit that was formed carpet, door panels, and seat covers that were sitting in the car when he sold it. He needed a new steering wheel, appropriate AM radio, all knobs and handles, badges, body work, paint, and the correct age rims. He figured another 10K and a couple of years of his elbow grease and he would have it finished if he had found the time.

He sold the car (not running) with the papers on the rebuilds along with all the parts and pieces he collected for $5500 after coming down on his price many times. The guy that bought it was a lucky break for him as he bought it as a project for him and his son that was a 16 year old motor head.

Robert


WOW! Things have changed. My son and I used to visit "Street of Dreams"
in Sugar Land about 10~15 years ago. Old Mustangs were going for $40K+
They only had American that was 30+ years old and the average price was
about 10 times original. I remember $65K for an old Road Runner with
painted wheels and hub caps.

And to get that roadrunner into that shape takes $75K. Takinf a
rusted out '64 "Stang and replacing all the panels, rebuilding the
engine, trans, and suspension, and putting in a new interior goes well
over $50K - and the selling price has dropped a lot since 2008.

Model A and T Fords have lost almost half their "real dollar value"
over the last 20 years.
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In article 15idneweQbZzO0jFnZ2dnUU7-
, lcb11211@swbelldotnet
says...

On 3/24/2017 5:55 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article MomdnWLWe_muA0jFnZ2dnUU7-
, lcb11211@swbelldotnet
says...

On 3/24/2017 12:58 AM,
wrote:
On Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 7:25:48 AM UTC-5, wrote:
.
Except for rare vehicles, it NEVER makes any financial sense (and yes,
I HAVE restored some old vehicles, including a few "basket cases"
Even at Barrett Jackson auctions, you can usually buy very good to
excellent cars for significantly less than the cost to build - even
strting from a reasonably good junker.

One of my long time friends would certainly give you an "AMEN" on that. He loved early Mustangs and the old 240Z from Datsun.

The amount of knowledge needed to "authentically restore" the cars correctly was staggering. The money needed to find original parts, just as much. The time to learn what to do, which parts went on which variant (depending on manufacturing dates, etc.) and on and on was a full time job. He gave up on the last Mustang and sold it dismantled for parts as he couldn't get it restored to his standards. After about 5-6 years in the garage, his wife stepped in, and

that
was that.

He got two 240s up and running and couldn't find the parts needed to restore them. He found that certain pieces from 260s fit the 240s, so he went that route. Now all he had when finished was a running sports car.

He lost money on all of his efforts. Restoring is 1) a labor of love and/or 2) a full time job.

We went to a local car show after that, and he was crushed as he found what I had told him all along, you can buy a finished product for about 1/2 (or less) of what it costs to restore one in your garage by yourself. He hasn't turned a wrench to restore a vehicle since.

Check out the prices on some of these mid 60s Mustangs:

https://goo.gl/d0Hsfv

Check out the '69 Ford Fastback Mustang with the 351 Cleveland V8 and less than 19,000 miles. Great paint, Cragar mags, new shoes, and $28,500. No muss, no fuss. My boy had 25K in the engine rebuild, transmission rebuild, new drive shaft and rebuilt rear end of the '67 he was last working on. That did include the J.C. Whitney (remember them?) interior kit that was formed carpet, door panels, and seat covers that were sitting in the car when he sold it. He

needed
a new steering wheel, appropriate AM radio, all knobs and handles, badges, body work, paint, and the correct age rims. He figured another 10K and a couple of years of his elbow grease and he would have it finished if he had found the time.

He sold the car (not running) with the papers on the rebuilds along with all the parts and pieces he collected for $5500 after coming down on his price many times. The guy that bought it was a lucky break for him as he bought it as a project for him and his son that was a 16 year old motor head.

Robert


WOW! Things have changed. My son and I used to visit "Street of Dreams"
in Sugar Land about 10~15 years ago. Old Mustangs were going for $40K+
They only had American that was 30+ years old and the average price was
about 10 times original. I remember $65K for an old Road Runner with
painted wheels and hub caps.


I think one thing that has changed is that
American cars 15-20 years ago were a shadow of
their former selves. Now the performance is
back with a vengeance--who'd a thunk we'd ever
see a _stock_ Caddy that does sub-12-second
quarters and tops out at 200?


It was all about getting rid of carburetors and adding electronics.
Those two things added HP "and" fuel economy.


'60s American cars had no shortage of horsepower
and nothing changed in the laws of physics to
change that. What changed was the law. The
electronics let a car that is in compliance with
the new laws produce as much power as one that
was produced before the laws went into effect.

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