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Default confessions of a small engine hitman


only have two gas powered tools and apparently i do not follow best
practices when i expect not to use them for 3 months or so

do you empty the gas out or just shut off the gas from the tank to the
carb







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On Friday, March 17, 2017 at 7:17:02 PM UTC-4, Electric Comet wrote:
only have two gas powered tools and apparently i do not follow best
practices when i expect not to use them for 3 months or so

do you empty the gas out or just shut off the gas from the tank to the
carb


Always put Stabil in all my small engine fuel. Store tool in garage for the winter, engines usually start with reasonable effort in the spring. Other than my 40 year old Dolmar chainsaw...it always gives me fits...
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only have two gas powered tools and apparently i do not follow best
practices when i expect not to use them for 3 months or so
do you empty the gas out or just shut off the gas from the tank to the
carb



I use fuel stabilizer - year round. on sale = ~ $ 15 per year.
... a few little 6 ounce containers will go a long way.
My 2 lawn mowers 20 hp rider and 4 hp push always start
well in the springtime after ~ 6 months southern Canada
I have never drained the gas ; I sometimes run the 4 hp B&S
out of gas at the end of autumn - not the rider..
The portable generator - 10 hp Honda - emergency use only -
I always test run it at 3 - 4 month intervals - I left it for 6
months once and it didn't like it. I have drained the tank
~ twice in 17 years - bought it used in 1999 - can't say it
matters. When test running it, I will run it for 15 - 20 minutes and
put some load on it - and usually turn off the gas valve & let it
run the carb dry, before storage.
This is just my experience.
Tiny fussy engines - like weed whackers or chainsaws always
seem to give more trouble - I don't own either.
The times that I've helped-out with firewood - the chainsaw guy
is either really good or really bad
with starting their chainsaw. My theory is that the really bad guys
are flooding it.
John T.

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Electric Comet wrote in newsahqjv$fb3$1
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only have two gas powered tools and apparently i do not follow best
practices when i expect not to use them for 3 months or so

do you empty the gas out or just shut off the gas from the tank to the
carb


I think it's extremely dependent on where you live. My grandpa never
drained fuel, I never do, a buddy of mine doesn't, and the tools seem to
run fine after sitting for a few months.

In some cases, where the machine has been sitting longer I've had to
inject fuel directly into the cylinder through the spark plug hole and
try to get it to fire. Once it does, it usually starts pulling fuel
through the system and runs fine. Sometimes it takes a second squirt of
fuel.

In other areas, I've heard claims that when they let the machine sit for
a month the fuel's already gone bad.

Puckdropper
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On Fri, 17 Mar 2017 16:16:38 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:


only have two gas powered tools and apparently i do not follow best
practices when i expect not to use them for 3 months or so

do you empty the gas out or just shut off the gas from the tank to the
carb


Nothing. Well, the last time I use them, I do shut them off. ;-) I
just dump the remaining gas in the cans into my truck. I put in new
oil in the spring and I'm off and running. I've never had a problem
starting the engine in the spring. I did have a bad battery and spark
plug last year and I'll have to change all the belts on my tractor
this year but I don't to anything else.
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On 18 Mar 2017 02:24:19 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Electric Comet wrote in newsahqjv$fb3$1
:


only have two gas powered tools and apparently i do not follow best
practices when i expect not to use them for 3 months or so

do you empty the gas out or just shut off the gas from the tank to the
carb


I think it's extremely dependent on where you live. My grandpa never
drained fuel, I never do, a buddy of mine doesn't, and the tools seem to
run fine after sitting for a few months.


The instructions for my tractor specifically said not to drain the
gas. It dries out the rubber bits. They did recommend a stabilizer,
which I don't bother with.

In some cases, where the machine has been sitting longer I've had to
inject fuel directly into the cylinder through the spark plug hole and
try to get it to fire. Once it does, it usually starts pulling fuel
through the system and runs fine. Sometimes it takes a second squirt of
fuel.


i have used a shot of ether in the air cleaner. Also, I fill the tank
with new gas. One year my snow blower didn't want to run until the
old gas ran out but that's the worst I've had.

In other areas, I've heard claims that when they let the machine sit for
a month the fuel's already gone bad.

Puckdropper

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On 18 Mar 2017 06:27:29 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

wrote in
:

On 18 Mar 2017 02:24:19 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

I think it's extremely dependent on where you live. My grandpa never
drained fuel, I never do, a buddy of mine doesn't, and the tools seem
to run fine after sitting for a few months.


The instructions for my tractor specifically said not to drain the
gas. It dries out the rubber bits. They did recommend a stabilizer,
which I don't bother with.


*trim*

Oh yeah, stabilizer... I don't use it. Stabilizer seems to be one of
those "doesn't hurt" products that some areas actually need but others
are just wasting money on.


I've done the same in VT, AL, and GT, so that covers a lot of areas. I
think the problem is the gas not spoiling but drying out and leaving
gunk in the carb. Water won't help but fresh gas and perhaps some
cranking should clear water or "bad" gas.
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On 3/17/2017 7:16 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

only have two gas powered tools and apparently i do not follow best
practices when i expect not to use them for 3 months or so

do you empty the gas out or just shut off the gas from the tank to the
carb



Four-stroke lawn mower does not care. Empty and run dry, or add
stabilizer, or just park it - does not seem to matter. Starts with one
or two pulls, runs fine.

Two-stroke blower, trimmer and chain saw are emptied and run until they
stop, with every use. Otherwise, ethanol in the gas destroys the fuel
line from the tank within a year.



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On 3/18/2017 10:19 AM, Larry Kraus wrote:
On 3/17/2017 7:16 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

only have two gas powered tools and apparently i do not follow best
practices when i expect not to use them for 3 months or so

do you empty the gas out or just shut off the gas from the tank to the
carb



Four-stroke lawn mower does not care. Empty and run dry, or add
stabilizer, or just park it - does not seem to matter. Starts with one
or two pulls, runs fine.


In Houston my 30 year old Honda likes gas stabilizer, no wasted gas
bought 2 gallons at a time. And that can sit over the winter.



Two-stroke blower, trimmer and chain saw are emptied and run until they
stop, with every use. Otherwise, ethanol in the gas destroys the fuel
line from the tank within a year.

I use Echo 2 strokes and mine is 10 years old. I leave fuel in it
through the season but try to drain and run dry for the winter if I am
not going to use if for more than 2 months.

As a tip from my repair guy, only use Premium fuel. Some Premium fuels
do not have ethanol/alcohol added.

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On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 02:24:19 +0000, Puckdropper wrote:

Electric Comet wrote in newsahqjv$fb3$1
@dont-email.me:


only have two gas powered tools and apparently i do not follow best
practices when i expect not to use them for 3 months or so

do you empty the gas out or just shut off the gas from the tank to the
carb


I think it's extremely dependent on where you live. My grandpa never
drained fuel, I never do, a buddy of mine doesn't, and the tools seem to
run fine after sitting for a few months.

In some cases, where the machine has been sitting longer I've had to
inject fuel directly into the cylinder through the spark plug hole and
try to get it to fire. Once it does, it usually starts pulling fuel
through the system and runs fine. Sometimes it takes a second squirt of
fuel.

In other areas, I've heard claims that when they let the machine sit for
a month the fuel's already gone bad.

Puckdropper


Old fuel will go bad. Really old fuel will turn into "varnish". This
varnish will coat the inside of your carburetor and fuel lines. It can
also
coat the inside of your fuel tank.

An easy way to detect for a varnished fuel system is to sniff with your
nose. With the engine OFF, get close to your carburetor and sniff. If it
smells like varnish, the carb will have to be rebuilt. Don't even waste
your time spraying carb cleaner into the carb, it won't help.

Once a carb is varnished it has to be disassembled and physically scrubbed
out. The varnished fuel is stubborn and it clogs the small passages and
jets. Running an engine with a varnished carb is very bad. It will cause
the engine to run lean and this can cause serious internal cylinder and
piston damage.

All it takes for fuel to varnish is about 10 to 18 months of sitting.
Temperature and other factors will have an effect on the level of
varnishing. Fuel additives can help prevent varnishing but don't do the
common mistake and add too much fuel conditioner. Follow the instructions
on the bottle.

Once the inside of your fuel tank becomes varnished you have a big problem.
The varnished areas along the upper sides and top of the tank can dry up.
The dried varnish turns into flakes and these flakes will clog your fuel
system.

--
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
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On Fri, 17 Mar 2017 16:16:38 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:


only have two gas powered tools and apparently i do not follow best
practices when i expect not to use them for 3 months or so

do you empty the gas out or just shut off the gas from the tank to the
carb


A gas treatment is your best friend.
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On 3/18/2017 10:19 AM, Larry Kraus wrote:
On 3/17/2017 7:16 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

only have two gas powered tools and apparently i do not follow best
practices when i expect not to use them for 3 months or so

do you empty the gas out or just shut off the gas from the tank to the
carb



Four-stroke lawn mower does not care. Empty and run dry, or add
stabilizer, or just park it - does not seem to matter. Starts with one
or two pulls, runs fine.

Two-stroke blower, trimmer and chain saw are emptied and run until they
stop, with every use. Otherwise, ethanol in the gas destroys the fuel
line from the tank within a year.


"Simple" solution is to buy the pre-mixed gasoline from the 2-cycle
companies. Made with ethanol free premium (92 octane). My Echo
equipment starts first time, every time using it. Can has a shelf life
of 24 (?) months once opened.

Cheaper, not as simple, mix up your 2-cycle fuel using premium, ethanol
free gasoline if it's available in your state. Ethanol means death to
small gasoline engines.


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On 3/18/2017 1:23 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 3/18/2017 10:19 AM, Larry Kraus wrote:
On 3/17/2017 7:16 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

only have two gas powered tools and apparently i do not follow best
practices when i expect not to use them for 3 months or so

do you empty the gas out or just shut off the gas from the tank to the
carb



Four-stroke lawn mower does not care. Empty and run dry, or add
stabilizer, or just park it - does not seem to matter. Starts with one
or two pulls, runs fine.

Two-stroke blower, trimmer and chain saw are emptied and run until they
stop, with every use. Otherwise, ethanol in the gas destroys the fuel
line from the tank within a year.


"Simple" solution is to buy the pre-mixed gasoline from the 2-cycle
companies. Made with ethanol free premium (92 octane). My Echo
equipment starts first time, every time using it. Can has a shelf life
of 24 (?) months once opened.


I think the solution might be more expensive than the repair. In the
Houston area the premix is between $5~$8 per "quart".

Does that have the oil premixed too?





Cheaper, not as simple, mix up your 2-cycle fuel using premium, ethanol
free gasoline if it's available in your state. Ethanol means death to
small gasoline engines.


And I have been told by many repair shops to use Echo brand oil additive
for 2 stroke engines.








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Larry Kraus wrote:

On 3/17/2017 7:16 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

only have two gas powered tools and apparently i do not follow best
practices when i expect not to use them for 3 months or so

do you empty the gas out or just shut off the gas from the tank to the
carb



Four-stroke lawn mower does not care. Empty and run dry, or add
stabilizer, or just park it - does not seem to matter. Starts with one
or two pulls, runs fine.

Two-stroke blower, trimmer and chain saw are emptied and run until they
stop, with every use. Otherwise, ethanol in the gas destroys the fuel
line from the tank within a year.


http://www.pure-gas.org

"Welcome to the definitive list of stations that sell pure,
ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada!"

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On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 13:23:25 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 3/18/2017 10:19 AM, Larry Kraus wrote:
On 3/17/2017 7:16 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

only have two gas powered tools and apparently i do not follow best
practices when i expect not to use them for 3 months or so

do you empty the gas out or just shut off the gas from the tank to the
carb



Four-stroke lawn mower does not care. Empty and run dry, or add
stabilizer, or just park it - does not seem to matter. Starts with one
or two pulls, runs fine.

Two-stroke blower, trimmer and chain saw are emptied and run until they
stop, with every use. Otherwise, ethanol in the gas destroys the fuel
line from the tank within a year.


"Simple" solution is to buy the pre-mixed gasoline from the 2-cycle
companies. Made with ethanol free premium (92 octane). My Echo
equipment starts first time, every time using it. Can has a shelf life
of 24 (?) months once opened.


I found the "simple" solution was to buy 4-cycle tools. ;-)

Cheaper, not as simple, mix up your 2-cycle fuel using premium, ethanol
free gasoline if it's available in your state. Ethanol means death to
small gasoline engines.

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On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 10:50:53 -0500
Markem wrote:

A gas treatment is your best friend.


have some of this now but i am too late

so far have the four stroke running again

next i deal with the two stroke







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On 3/18/2017 1:51 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/18/2017 1:23 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 3/18/2017 10:19 AM, Larry Kraus wrote:
On 3/17/2017 7:16 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

only have two gas powered tools and apparently i do not follow best
practices when i expect not to use them for 3 months or so

do you empty the gas out or just shut off the gas from the tank to the
carb



Four-stroke lawn mower does not care. Empty and run dry, or add
stabilizer, or just park it - does not seem to matter. Starts with one
or two pulls, runs fine.

Two-stroke blower, trimmer and chain saw are emptied and run until they
stop, with every use. Otherwise, ethanol in the gas destroys the fuel
line from the tank within a year.


"Simple" solution is to buy the pre-mixed gasoline from the 2-cycle
companies. Made with ethanol free premium (92 octane). My Echo
equipment starts first time, every time using it. Can has a shelf life
of 24 (?) months once opened.


I think the solution might be more expensive than the repair. In the
Houston area the premix is between $5~$8 per "quart".

Does that have the oil premixed too?


Yes, you pour it direct from the can and you're good to go.

And, yes, it is expensive. I sure wouldn't want to run a lawnmower on
the stuff, but in my case, I use it for string trimmer, leaf blower and
chain saw. Still expensive to buy but since I don't use all that much
of it, it's really not bad considering everything starts right up every
time and I can store it without worrying about degradation of the fuel
or the equipment.

For larger equipment including my emergency generator, I stick with the
premium non-ethanol gasoline. Note that I'm buying premium not for the
octane but rather for the lack of ethanol. Unavailable in all but a few
spots in Illinois but since I live close to the state line, it's easy
for me to go up and pick up 5 gallons when needed. Friggin' ethanol
destroyed one carb on the generator. Not going to happen again if I can
help it.


Cheaper, not as simple, mix up your 2-cycle fuel using premium, ethanol
free gasoline if it's available in your state. Ethanol means death to
small gasoline engines.


And I have been told by many repair shops to use Echo brand oil additive
for 2 stroke engines.


My small engine shop sells and recommends the pre-mix and non-alcohol
fuel for ALL their small engines. They also recommend "Sea Foam" over
Sta-Bil. I still use Sta-bil in the gasoline stored in Jerry cans for
the generator but always use Sea Foam in the last tank of gas in the
fall and first tank in the spring.

I don't know how much difference Echo brand oil would make in the fuel
equation, but what could it hurt other than, maybe, your wallet. I
think that if you get rid of the alcohol you've gotten rid of 95% of the
problem.



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On 3/18/2017 10:50 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 3/18/2017 1:51 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/18/2017 1:23 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 3/18/2017 10:19 AM, Larry Kraus wrote:
On 3/17/2017 7:16 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

only have two gas powered tools and apparently i do not follow best
practices when i expect not to use them for 3 months or so

do you empty the gas out or just shut off the gas from the tank to the
carb



Four-stroke lawn mower does not care. Empty and run dry, or add
stabilizer, or just park it - does not seem to matter. Starts with one
or two pulls, runs fine.

Two-stroke blower, trimmer and chain saw are emptied and run until they
stop, with every use. Otherwise, ethanol in the gas destroys the fuel
line from the tank within a year.


"Simple" solution is to buy the pre-mixed gasoline from the 2-cycle
companies. Made with ethanol free premium (92 octane). My Echo
equipment starts first time, every time using it. Can has a shelf life
of 24 (?) months once opened.


I think the solution might be more expensive than the repair. In the
Houston area the premix is between $5~$8 per "quart".

Does that have the oil premixed too?


Yes, you pour it direct from the can and you're good to go.

And, yes, it is expensive. I sure wouldn't want to run a lawnmower on
the stuff, but in my case, I use it for string trimmer, leaf blower and
chain saw. Still expensive to buy but since I don't use all that much
of it, it's really not bad considering everything starts right up every
time and I can store it without worrying about degradation of the fuel
or the equipment.

For larger equipment including my emergency generator, I stick with the
premium non-ethanol gasoline. Note that I'm buying premium not for the
octane but rather for the lack of ethanol. Unavailable in all but a few
spots in Illinois but since I live close to the state line, it's easy
for me to go up and pick up 5 gallons when needed. Friggin' ethanol
destroyed one carb on the generator. Not going to happen again if I can
help it.


Cheaper, not as simple, mix up your 2-cycle fuel using premium, ethanol
free gasoline if it's available in your state. Ethanol means death to
small gasoline engines.


And I have been told by many repair shops to use Echo brand oil additive
for 2 stroke engines.


My small engine shop sells and recommends the pre-mix and non-alcohol
fuel for ALL their small engines. They also recommend "Sea Foam" over
Sta-Bil. I still use Sta-bil in the gasoline stored in Jerry cans for
the generator but always use Sea Foam in the last tank of gas in the
fall and first tank in the spring.

I don't know how much difference Echo brand oil would make in the fuel
equation, but what could it hurt other than, maybe, your wallet. I
think that if you get rid of the alcohol you've gotten rid of 95% of the
problem.


I did have an issue with my 10 year old Echo last spring. I think it
was simply due for a tune up, it started out fine but after 3~4 uses it
got progressively worse. It took 3 trips to the repair shop to get it
right.
The questioning that went on was like this. Is your fuel fresh? Yes.
Are you using Premium fuel? Yes, And I use Echo oil and B&S fuel
treatment. That is great he said but you do not need to use the B&S
fuel treatment as the Echo also had that ingredient. I responded that I
treat a 2 gallon can that I fill my 4 stroke lawn mower with and I use
that 2 gallons can to fill my 1 gallon can for the 2 stroke Echo.

As I understand the fuel stabilizer prevents the mixture of fuel and air
at the top of the fuel can and seals the gasoline off from the the humid
air in the can, keeping the alcohol from absorbing moisture




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On 3/18/2017 2:27 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

Oh yeah, stabilizer... I don't use it. Stabilizer seems to be one of
those "doesn't hurt" products that some areas actually need but others
are just wasting money


Agreed, although not sure what areas you need stabilizer?
I live in Pgh Pa where the weather ranges from 20 below to over 100, so
the climate seems to be a non-issue.

Over the past 60+ years my brother an I have owned over 16 gas powered
machines. Most of them we still have and use, none of them have we ever
used stabilizer or drained the gas. Never had a problem.

My brother, who at one time was a chemical engineer for Gulf Research,
said oil companies put additives in gas that keep it good for long
periods of time. Gas turning to varnish is probably something that you
needed to wring your hands over pre-1950-60's. I don't think they had
stabilizer then, when it was needed.

I will add that a friend of my brother gave him an old snow blower that
didn't run. There was no gas in it and the carburetor was all gummed
up. Turns out the guy USED stabilizer in it, let the gas dry up and the
stabilizer turned into gum. The main thing I guess is don't let the gas
evaporate if you use stabilizer.

The other issue I never worry about is keep the tank full, otherwise
water vapor will condense and you get water in your gas. Never worried
about that either, and never had a problem.

Oh, our 1954 and 1956 Gravely Tractors and my 1975 Sears chainsaw can be
hard to start, have been that way since birth. A squirt of ether cures
that. Older equipment has inferior electrical systems and can be hard
to start. Newer stuff seems to fire up first pull. My lawnmower, which
I rarely use, has 2 year old gas in it, and it starts first pull every time.

Of course, my 60+ years of first hand experience shouldn't stop anyone
from wringing their hands and buying the hype, but since EC asked, I
shared...
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
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On 3/18/2017 11:41 AM, Trenbidia wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 02:24:19 +0000, Puckdropper wrote:

Electric Comet wrote in newsahqjv$fb3$1
@dont-email.me:


only have two gas powered tools and apparently i do not follow best
practices when i expect not to use them for 3 months or so

do you empty the gas out or just shut off the gas from the tank to the
carb


I think it's extremely dependent on where you live. My grandpa never
drained fuel, I never do, a buddy of mine doesn't, and the tools seem to
run fine after sitting for a few months.

In some cases, where the machine has been sitting longer I've had to
inject fuel directly into the cylinder through the spark plug hole and
try to get it to fire. Once it does, it usually starts pulling fuel
through the system and runs fine. Sometimes it takes a second squirt of
fuel.

In other areas, I've heard claims that when they let the machine sit for
a month the fuel's already gone bad.

Puckdropper


Old fuel will go bad. Really old fuel will turn into "varnish". This
varnish will coat the inside of your carburetor and fuel lines. It can
also
coat the inside of your fuel tank.

An easy way to detect for a varnished fuel system is to sniff with your
nose. With the engine OFF, get close to your carburetor and sniff. If it
smells like varnish, the carb will have to be rebuilt. Don't even waste
your time spraying carb cleaner into the carb, it won't help.

Once a carb is varnished it has to be disassembled and physically scrubbed
out. The varnished fuel is stubborn and it clogs the small passages and
jets. Running an engine with a varnished carb is very bad. It will cause
the engine to run lean and this can cause serious internal cylinder and
piston damage.

All it takes for fuel to varnish is about 10 to 18 months of sitting.
Temperature and other factors will have an effect on the level of
varnishing. Fuel additives can help prevent varnishing but don't do the
common mistake and add too much fuel conditioner. Follow the instructions
on the bottle.

Once the inside of your fuel tank becomes varnished you have a big problem.
The varnished areas along the upper sides and top of the tank can dry up.
The dried varnish turns into flakes and these flakes will clog your fuel
system.

Everything you say makes sense, except my experience over the past 60
years says hogwash. It would be rare I'd keep gas over 2 years in any of
my equipment, but I have done it w/o a problem. This year, my lawn
mower gas will be 3 years old, as it was 2 years old last year and
started first pull. Still has the same tank of gas, I expect it will
start first pull again. I think the varnish issue is mostly left over
from the early days of gas refineries, otherwise none of my equipment
would be starting with out a problem.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
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Default confessions of a small engine hitman

On 3/19/2017 9:21 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/18/2017 2:27 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

Oh yeah, stabilizer... I don't use it. Stabilizer seems to be one of
those "doesn't hurt" products that some areas actually need but others
are just wasting money


Agreed, although not sure what areas you need stabilizer?
I live in Pgh Pa where the weather ranges from 20 below to over 100, so
the climate seems to be a non-issue.

Over the past 60+ years my brother an I have owned over 16 gas powered
machines. Most of them we still have and use, none of them have we ever
used stabilizer or drained the gas. Never had a problem.

My brother, who at one time was a chemical engineer for Gulf Research,
said oil companies put additives in gas that keep it good for long
periods of time. Gas turning to varnish is probably something that you
needed to wring your hands over pre-1950-60's. I don't think they had
stabilizer then, when it was needed.

I will add that a friend of my brother gave him an old snow blower that
didn't run. There was no gas in it and the carburetor was all gummed
up. Turns out the guy USED stabilizer in it, let the gas dry up and the
stabilizer turned into gum. The main thing I guess is don't let the gas
evaporate if you use stabilizer.

The other issue I never worry about is keep the tank full, otherwise
water vapor will condense and you get water in your gas. Never worried
about that either, and never had a problem.

Oh, our 1954 and 1956 Gravely Tractors and my 1975 Sears chainsaw can be
hard to start, have been that way since birth. A squirt of ether cures
that. Older equipment has inferior electrical systems and can be hard
to start. Newer stuff seems to fire up first pull. My lawnmower, which
I rarely use, has 2 year old gas in it, and it starts first pull every
time.

Of course, my 60+ years of first hand experience shouldn't stop anyone
from wringing their hands and buying the hype, but since EC asked, I
shared...



You do not need gas stabilizer,,,,until you do. Bigger cities that have
pollution problems tend to use fuels that seem more prone to go bad.

My 30 year old Honda never needed special stabilized gas,,,, until it
did, starting about 6~7 years ago. Still runs like a top with a single
pull to get it started after using gas stabilizers.

Just because you have not had gas issues does not dictate what other
regions of the country experience.


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Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


You do not need gas stabilizer,,,,until you do. Bigger cities that
have pollution problems tend to use fuels that seem more prone to go
bad.

My 30 year old Honda never needed special stabilized gas,,,, until it
did, starting about 6~7 years ago. Still runs like a top with a
single pull to get it started after using gas stabilizers.

Just because you have not had gas issues does not dictate what other
regions of the country experience.




Now that you mention bigger cities, I wonder if their special blends
(AKA wallet lining) of pollution control fuels introduce additives that
need stabilizer.

Puckdropper
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A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!


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On 3/19/2017 2:03 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


You do not need gas stabilizer,,,,until you do. Bigger cities that
have pollution problems tend to use fuels that seem more prone to go
bad.

My 30 year old Honda never needed special stabilized gas,,,, until it
did, starting about 6~7 years ago. Still runs like a top with a
single pull to get it started after using gas stabilizers.

Just because you have not had gas issues does not dictate what other
regions of the country experience.




Now that you mention bigger cities, I wonder if their special blends
(AKA wallet lining) of pollution control fuels introduce additives that
need stabilizer.

Puckdropper


No doubt at all. Houston has a winter and "special" summer formula.

All I know is that for years I did not have to use stabilizer additives
for 2 cycle or 4 cycle gas. And in the last 10 or so years I do have to
use the stabilizer if I buy more than a seasons worth of gas.

My dad bought a new Honda lawn mower about 12 years ago, it replaced his
other 12 year old Honda. The new one passes California emissions but is
sold in all states. He immediately had problems with the new one and
even had to have the carb replaced within the first year.
He had to start using additives in his new mower.

It seems, the newer the equipment, the more Californicated they are and
less tolerant of less then fresh fuel.
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"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...


"Simple" solution is to buy the pre-mixed gasoline from the 2-cycle
companies. Made with ethanol free premium (92 octane). My Echo
equipment starts first time, every time using it. Can has a shelf life
of 24 (?) months once opened.


I think the solution might be more expensive than the repair. In the
Houston area the premix is between $5~$8 per "quart".


FYI, Gallons of pre-mix at Lowes is $20. That's the only fuel I put in
my 2-strokes.

Dave in SoTex

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On 3/19/2017 1:00 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/19/2017 9:21 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/18/2017 2:27 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

Oh yeah, stabilizer... I don't use it. Stabilizer seems to be one of
those "doesn't hurt" products that some areas actually need but others
are just wasting money


Agreed, although not sure what areas you need stabilizer?
I live in Pgh Pa where the weather ranges from 20 below to over 100, so
the climate seems to be a non-issue.

Over the past 60+ years my brother an I have owned over 16 gas powered
machines. Most of them we still have and use, none of them have we ever
used stabilizer or drained the gas. Never had a problem.

My brother, who at one time was a chemical engineer for Gulf Research,
said oil companies put additives in gas that keep it good for long
periods of time. Gas turning to varnish is probably something that you
needed to wring your hands over pre-1950-60's. I don't think they had
stabilizer then, when it was needed.

I will add that a friend of my brother gave him an old snow blower that
didn't run. There was no gas in it and the carburetor was all gummed
up. Turns out the guy USED stabilizer in it, let the gas dry up and the
stabilizer turned into gum. The main thing I guess is don't let the gas
evaporate if you use stabilizer.

The other issue I never worry about is keep the tank full, otherwise
water vapor will condense and you get water in your gas. Never worried
about that either, and never had a problem.

Oh, our 1954 and 1956 Gravely Tractors and my 1975 Sears chainsaw can be
hard to start, have been that way since birth. A squirt of ether cures
that. Older equipment has inferior electrical systems and can be hard
to start. Newer stuff seems to fire up first pull. My lawnmower, which
I rarely use, has 2 year old gas in it, and it starts first pull every
time.

Of course, my 60+ years of first hand experience shouldn't stop anyone
from wringing their hands and buying the hype, but since EC asked, I
shared...



You do not need gas stabilizer,,,,until you do.


60 years of not needing stabilizer seems somewhat significant.

Bigger cities that have
pollution problems tend to use fuels that seem more prone to go bad.


I live in Pgh. Pa., actually Allegheny County. It is not well known for
it's pollution free environment, particularly when steel mills lived
here. Also not particularly small, with population of over a million
it's considered large.

My 30 year old Honda never needed special stabilized gas,,,, until it
did, starting about 6~7 years ago.


Our 61 year old Gravely never needed special stabilized gas, and still
doesn't. Perhaps Texas is selling inferior gas to the rest of the country?

Still runs like a top with a single
pull to get it started after using gas stabilizers.


All our equipment runs like a top, some of it for over 60 years. None
of it is Honda though, perhaps Honda has a defect that requires brand
new inferior Texas gas?

Just because you have not had gas issues does not dictate what other
regions of the country experience.


True enough. Just wondering what those other experiences are? Pgh
weather is all over the place, from hot and humid to cold and dry?
I guess northern Alaska or the desert might get significantly extreme
weather that could effect things, but most weather experienced in the US
also occurs in Pgh. I think more likely it is the Texas gas, or even
more likely, the imagination and hype.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
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On 3/20/2017 7:02 AM, Dave in SoTex wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...


"Simple" solution is to buy the pre-mixed gasoline from the 2-cycle
companies. Made with ethanol free premium (92 octane). My Echo
equipment starts first time, every time using it. Can has a shelf life
of 24 (?) months once opened.


I think the solution might be more expensive than the repair. In the
Houston area the premix is between $5~$8 per "quart".


FYI, Gallons of pre-mix at Lowes is $20. That's the only fuel I put
in my 2-strokes.


Interesting. I have a 40 year old chain saw, and a 20 year old weed
wacker. For years I mixed regular gas and regular NON-detergent, 20
weight oil in the gas at I think 16-1 ratio. The mixture would sit for
YEARS before being used up, and never had a problem. The last thing I
would do is pay $5-$8 a quart for pre mixed gas? $25 for $3 worth of
gas... Makes no sense to me. It is a good idea go heavy on the oil. I
think I went a bit overboard but all that does is smoke a bit more.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
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Interesting. I have a 40 year old chain saw, and a 20 year old weed
wacker. For years I mixed regular gas and regular NON-detergent, 20
weight oil in the gas at I think 16-1 ratio. The mixture would sit for
YEARS before being used up, and never had a problem.



Jack - you live a charmed life ! .. and I'm truly happy for you.
But for those of us who aren't quite so lucky - the link below is
what Honda advises.
http://powerequipment.honda.com/gene...ecommendations
John T.



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Jack wrote in news
*snip*

True enough. Just wondering what those other experiences are? Pgh
weather is all over the place, from hot and humid to cold and dry?
I guess northern Alaska or the desert might get significantly extreme
weather that could effect things, but most weather experienced in the
US also occurs in Pgh. I think more likely it is the Texas gas, or
even more likely, the imagination and hype.


What's your averages? We run about 55-60F with 40-60% RH on average for
the year. The range is more like 0-100F, with 30-100% RH normal.

Puckdropper
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A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
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On 3/20/2017 9:23 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/19/2017 1:00 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/19/2017 9:21 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/18/2017 2:27 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

Oh yeah, stabilizer... I don't use it. Stabilizer seems to be one of
those "doesn't hurt" products that some areas actually need but others
are just wasting money

Agreed, although not sure what areas you need stabilizer?
I live in Pgh Pa where the weather ranges from 20 below to over 100, so
the climate seems to be a non-issue.

Over the past 60+ years my brother an I have owned over 16 gas powered
machines. Most of them we still have and use, none of them have we ever
used stabilizer or drained the gas. Never had a problem.

My brother, who at one time was a chemical engineer for Gulf Research,
said oil companies put additives in gas that keep it good for long
periods of time. Gas turning to varnish is probably something that you
needed to wring your hands over pre-1950-60's. I don't think they had
stabilizer then, when it was needed.

I will add that a friend of my brother gave him an old snow blower that
didn't run. There was no gas in it and the carburetor was all gummed
up. Turns out the guy USED stabilizer in it, let the gas dry up and the
stabilizer turned into gum. The main thing I guess is don't let the gas
evaporate if you use stabilizer.

The other issue I never worry about is keep the tank full, otherwise
water vapor will condense and you get water in your gas. Never worried
about that either, and never had a problem.

Oh, our 1954 and 1956 Gravely Tractors and my 1975 Sears chainsaw can be
hard to start, have been that way since birth. A squirt of ether cures
that. Older equipment has inferior electrical systems and can be hard
to start. Newer stuff seems to fire up first pull. My lawnmower, which
I rarely use, has 2 year old gas in it, and it starts first pull every
time.

Of course, my 60+ years of first hand experience shouldn't stop anyone
from wringing their hands and buying the hype, but since EC asked, I
shared...



You do not need gas stabilizer,,,,until you do.


60 years of not needing stabilizer seems somewhat significant.

Bigger cities that have
pollution problems tend to use fuels that seem more prone to go bad.


I live in Pgh. Pa., actually Allegheny County. It is not well known for
it's pollution free environment, particularly when steel mills lived
here. Also not particularly small, with population of over a million
it's considered large.


A tiny town compared to the Houston metro area and the pollution we are
talking about is from gasoline engines. Pittsburgh is about 5% of Houston.



My 30 year old Honda never needed special stabilized gas,,,, until it
did, starting about 6~7 years ago.


Our 61 year old Gravely never needed special stabilized gas, and still
doesn't. Perhaps Texas is selling inferior gas to the rest of the country?


Special formula gas.


Still runs like a top with a single
pull to get it started after using gas stabilizers.


All our equipment runs like a top, some of it for over 60 years. None
of it is Honda though, perhaps Honda has a defect that requires brand
new inferior Texas gas?


New Honda's probably do have defects, the have been tweaked to prevent
cancer in California.




Just because you have not had gas issues does not dictate what other
regions of the country experience.


True enough. Just wondering what those other experiences are? Pgh
weather is all over the place, from hot and humid to cold and dry?
I guess northern Alaska or the desert might get significantly extreme
weather that could effect things, but most weather experienced in the US
also occurs in Pgh. I think more likely it is the Texas gas, or even
more likely, the imagination and hype.


Not the imagination when you have to use the additives to keep the
equipment running. I did not start with additives but ended up there.
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On 3/20/2017 11:10 AM, wrote:


Interesting. I have a 40 year old chain saw, and a 20 year old weed
wacker. For years I mixed regular gas and regular NON-detergent, 20
weight oil in the gas at I think 16-1 ratio. The mixture would sit for
YEARS before being used up, and never had a problem.


Jack - you live a charmed life ! .. and I'm truly happy for you.


I reckon. My brother also leads a charmed life. Couple of others in
here also lead a "charmed life" as they also don't have a problem. At
some point, certainly after 60+ years, I think there is more than
"charmed life" going on.

But for those of us who aren't quite so lucky - the link below is
what Honda advises.

http://powerequipment.honda.com/gene...ecommendations

A quick reading of that link leads me to call total hogwash on that.
Number 4 says:
"If you do not plan to operate the generator frequently (less than once
a month), drain the carburetor following the directions shown in the
owner’s manual."

That is about as stupid as it gets. If it's true, and it isn't, I would
never buy a Honda generator as there is something drastically wrong with
an engine that needs gas less than 1 month old.

By all means do what ever floats your boat. Simply sharing my personal,
first hand experiences. I doubt Luck is any part of the picture. No
one gets away with 60+ years of luck, with so much varied equipment.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
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On 3/20/2017 11:41 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
Jack wrote in news
*snip*

True enough. Just wondering what those other experiences are? Pgh
weather is all over the place, from hot and humid to cold and dry?
I guess northern Alaska or the desert might get significantly extreme
weather that could effect things, but most weather experienced in the
US also occurs in Pgh. I think more likely it is the Texas gas, or
even more likely, the imagination and hype.


What's your averages? We run about 55-60F with 40-60% RH on average for
the year. The range is more like 0-100F, with 30-100% RH normal.

Puckdropper

Pittsburgh weather averages
Annual high temperatu 61.4°F
Annual low temperatu 42.6°F
Average temperatu 52°F
Average annual precipitation - rainfall: 34.8 inch

The range is from -20 to around 105. this is from memory, could be a few
degrees different. Averages mean something I guess, but if it is 0 for
6 months and 100 for 6 months, the average is 50, so averages don't
paint a clear picture by themselves. I really doubt weather or
pollution has anything at all to do with it. If you need additives in
your gas, I'm thinking it is a problem more with your gas than anything
else. I doubt gas in Pgh has needed more additives than the refinery
puts in our gas for over 50 years. Oh, both my, and my brothers
equipment lives in unheated garage/shed, so weather could effect things,
but doesn't seem too at all.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
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On 3/20/2017 2:23 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/20/2017 9:23 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/19/2017 1:00 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/19/2017 9:21 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/18/2017 2:27 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

Oh yeah, stabilizer... I don't use it. Stabilizer seems to be one of
those "doesn't hurt" products that some areas actually need but others
are just wasting money

Agreed, although not sure what areas you need stabilizer?
I live in Pgh Pa where the weather ranges from 20 below to over 100, so
the climate seems to be a non-issue.

Over the past 60+ years my brother an I have owned over 16 gas powered
machines. Most of them we still have and use, none of them have we ever
used stabilizer or drained the gas. Never had a problem.

My brother, who at one time was a chemical engineer for Gulf Research,
said oil companies put additives in gas that keep it good for long
periods of time. Gas turning to varnish is probably something that you
needed to wring your hands over pre-1950-60's. I don't think they had
stabilizer then, when it was needed.

I will add that a friend of my brother gave him an old snow blower that
didn't run. There was no gas in it and the carburetor was all gummed
up. Turns out the guy USED stabilizer in it, let the gas dry up and the
stabilizer turned into gum. The main thing I guess is don't let the gas
evaporate if you use stabilizer.

The other issue I never worry about is keep the tank full, otherwise
water vapor will condense and you get water in your gas. Never worried
about that either, and never had a problem.

Oh, our 1954 and 1956 Gravely Tractors and my 1975 Sears chainsaw
can be
hard to start, have been that way since birth. A squirt of ether cures
that. Older equipment has inferior electrical systems and can be hard
to start. Newer stuff seems to fire up first pull. My lawnmower, which
I rarely use, has 2 year old gas in it, and it starts first pull every
time.

Of course, my 60+ years of first hand experience shouldn't stop anyone
from wringing their hands and buying the hype, but since EC asked, I
shared...


You do not need gas stabilizer,,,,until you do.


60 years of not needing stabilizer seems somewhat significant.

Bigger cities that have
pollution problems tend to use fuels that seem more prone to go bad.


I live in Pgh. Pa., actually Allegheny County. It is not well known for
it's pollution free environment, particularly when steel mills lived
here. Also not particularly small, with population of over a million
it's considered large.


A tiny town compared to the Houston metro area and the pollution we are
talking about is from gasoline engines. Pittsburgh is about 5% of Houston.


Well, anything over 300,000 is considered large. Houston is 626 sq
miles with population of 2.2 million. Allegheny County is 745 sq miles
with a population of 1.2 million. Closer to 50% than 5% I think.
Still, don't see what that has to do with anything as far as gas going
stale is concerned.

My 30 year old Honda never needed special stabilized gas,,,, until it
did, starting about 6~7 years ago.


Our 61 year old Gravely never needed special stabilized gas, and still
doesn't. Perhaps Texas is selling inferior gas to the rest of the
country?


Special formula gas.


Still runs like a top with a single
pull to get it started after using gas stabilizers.


All our equipment runs like a top, some of it for over 60 years. None
of it is Honda though, perhaps Honda has a defect that requires brand
new inferior Texas gas?


New Honda's probably do have defects, the have been tweaked to prevent
cancer in California.




Just because you have not had gas issues does not dictate what other
regions of the country experience.


True enough. Just wondering what those other experiences are? Pgh
weather is all over the place, from hot and humid to cold and dry?
I guess northern Alaska or the desert might get significantly extreme
weather that could effect things, but most weather experienced in the US
also occurs in Pgh. I think more likely it is the Texas gas, or even
more likely, the imagination and hype.


Not the imagination when you have to use the additives to keep the
equipment running. I did not start with additives but ended up there.


True that. All I could add is if you own Honda, or buy gas in Houston,
use gas stabilizer.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com


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On 3/20/2017 4:45 PM, Jack wrote:
On 3/20/2017 2:23 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/20/2017 9:23 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/19/2017 1:00 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/19/2017 9:21 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/18/2017 2:27 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

Oh yeah, stabilizer... I don't use it. Stabilizer seems to be one of
those "doesn't hurt" products that some areas actually need but
others
are just wasting money

Agreed, although not sure what areas you need stabilizer?
I live in Pgh Pa where the weather ranges from 20 below to over
100, so
the climate seems to be a non-issue.

Over the past 60+ years my brother an I have owned over 16 gas powered
machines. Most of them we still have and use, none of them have we
ever
used stabilizer or drained the gas. Never had a problem.

My brother, who at one time was a chemical engineer for Gulf Research,
said oil companies put additives in gas that keep it good for long
periods of time. Gas turning to varnish is probably something that
you
needed to wring your hands over pre-1950-60's. I don't think they had
stabilizer then, when it was needed.

I will add that a friend of my brother gave him an old snow blower
that
didn't run. There was no gas in it and the carburetor was all gummed
up. Turns out the guy USED stabilizer in it, let the gas dry up and
the
stabilizer turned into gum. The main thing I guess is don't let the
gas
evaporate if you use stabilizer.

The other issue I never worry about is keep the tank full, otherwise
water vapor will condense and you get water in your gas. Never
worried
about that either, and never had a problem.

Oh, our 1954 and 1956 Gravely Tractors and my 1975 Sears chainsaw
can be
hard to start, have been that way since birth. A squirt of ether
cures
that. Older equipment has inferior electrical systems and can be hard
to start. Newer stuff seems to fire up first pull. My lawnmower,
which
I rarely use, has 2 year old gas in it, and it starts first pull every
time.

Of course, my 60+ years of first hand experience shouldn't stop anyone
from wringing their hands and buying the hype, but since EC asked, I
shared...


You do not need gas stabilizer,,,,until you do.

60 years of not needing stabilizer seems somewhat significant.

Bigger cities that have
pollution problems tend to use fuels that seem more prone to go bad.

I live in Pgh. Pa., actually Allegheny County. It is not well known for
it's pollution free environment, particularly when steel mills lived
here. Also not particularly small, with population of over a million
it's considered large.


A tiny town compared to the Houston metro area and the pollution we are
talking about is from gasoline engines. Pittsburgh is about 5% of
Houston.


Well, anything over 300,000 is considered large.


Maybe to you. ;~) I grew up in corpus Christi, Tx. I consider it a
small place, 305,000.


Houston is 626 sq
miles with population of 2.2 million. Allegheny County is 745 sq miles
with a population of 1.2 million. Closer to 50% than 5% I think.
Still, don't see what that has to do with anything as far as gas going
stale is concerned.




I said, Houston Metro, 6 million. That would be 8,928 square miles, 12
times larger than Allegheny County. Houston encompasses at least 9
small cities and is adjacent to probably a dozen others. And the metro
area includes everything between Houston and Galveston with little open
land to distinguish city limits.

That is why we have the special fuels that don't last.





Snip



Not the imagination when you have to use the additives to keep the
equipment running. I did not start with additives but ended up there.


True that. All I could add is if you own Honda, or buy gas in Houston,
use gas stabilizer.

Or any other brand yard equipment.
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On 3/20/2017 4:18 PM, Jack wrote:
On 3/20/2017 11:10 AM, wrote:


Interesting. I have a 40 year old chain saw, and a 20 year old weed
wacker. For years I mixed regular gas and regular NON-detergent, 20
weight oil in the gas at I think 16-1 ratio. The mixture would sit for
YEARS before being used up, and never had a problem.


Jack - you live a charmed life ! .. and I'm truly happy for you.


I reckon. My brother also leads a charmed life. Couple of others in
here also lead a "charmed life" as they also don't have a problem. At
some point, certainly after 60+ years, I think there is more than
"charmed life" going on.


Absolutely, no knowledge of how other areas of the country deal with
real and specific problems.




But for those of us who aren't quite so lucky - the link below is
what Honda advises.

http://powerequipment.honda.com/gene...ecommendations


A quick reading of that link leads me to call total hogwash on that.
Number 4 says:
"If you do not plan to operate the generator frequently (less than once
a month), drain the carburetor following the directions shown in the
owner’s manual."

That is about as stupid as it gets. If it's true, and it isn't, I would
never buy a Honda generator as there is something drastically wrong with
an engine that needs gas less than 1 month old.


I suspect that all new power equipment has this statement.

Stihl Page 22
https://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/...038_Manual.pdf

Echo Page 26
http://www.echo-usa.com/getattachmen...226_032213.pdf





By all means do what ever floats your boat. Simply sharing my personal,
first hand experiences.


As are we.

I doubt Luck is any part of the picture. No
one gets away with 60+ years of luck, with so much varied equipment.

I have no doubt that you are having spectacular results with how ever
you are dealing. Bring your equipment to Houston and buy gas here and
you will understand after a few years.
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On 3/20/2017 7:32 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/20/2017 4:45 PM, Jack wrote:
On 3/20/2017 2:23 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/20/2017 9:23 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/19/2017 1:00 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/19/2017 9:21 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/18/2017 2:27 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

Oh yeah, stabilizer... I don't use it. Stabilizer seems to be
one of
those "doesn't hurt" products that some areas actually need but
others
are just wasting money

Agreed, although not sure what areas you need stabilizer?
I live in Pgh Pa where the weather ranges from 20 below to over
100, so
the climate seems to be a non-issue.

Over the past 60+ years my brother an I have owned over 16 gas
powered
machines. Most of them we still have and use, none of them have we
ever
used stabilizer or drained the gas. Never had a problem.

My brother, who at one time was a chemical engineer for Gulf
Research,
said oil companies put additives in gas that keep it good for long
periods of time. Gas turning to varnish is probably something that
you
needed to wring your hands over pre-1950-60's. I don't think they
had
stabilizer then, when it was needed.

I will add that a friend of my brother gave him an old snow blower
that
didn't run. There was no gas in it and the carburetor was all gummed
up. Turns out the guy USED stabilizer in it, let the gas dry up and
the
stabilizer turned into gum. The main thing I guess is don't let the
gas
evaporate if you use stabilizer.

The other issue I never worry about is keep the tank full, otherwise
water vapor will condense and you get water in your gas. Never
worried
about that either, and never had a problem.

Oh, our 1954 and 1956 Gravely Tractors and my 1975 Sears chainsaw
can be
hard to start, have been that way since birth. A squirt of ether
cures
that. Older equipment has inferior electrical systems and can be
hard
to start. Newer stuff seems to fire up first pull. My lawnmower,
which
I rarely use, has 2 year old gas in it, and it starts first pull
every
time.

Of course, my 60+ years of first hand experience shouldn't stop
anyone
from wringing their hands and buying the hype, but since EC asked, I
shared...


You do not need gas stabilizer,,,,until you do.

60 years of not needing stabilizer seems somewhat significant.

Bigger cities that have
pollution problems tend to use fuels that seem more prone to go bad.

I live in Pgh. Pa., actually Allegheny County. It is not well known
for
it's pollution free environment, particularly when steel mills lived
here. Also not particularly small, with population of over a million
it's considered large.

A tiny town compared to the Houston metro area and the pollution we are
talking about is from gasoline engines. Pittsburgh is about 5% of
Houston.


Well, anything over 300,000 is considered large.


Maybe to you. I grew up in corpus Christi, Tx. I consider it a
small place, 305,000.


Not to me, the National league of Cities. I found it on-line when
looking up population and and square miles of various cities. Note it
says "very large" not simply "large" ;~)

http://www.nlc.org/number-of-municip...n-distribution

"The U.S.'s 19,492 municipal governments range in population size from
very large (over 300,000) to very small (under 1,000). The vast
majority (over 90%) of municipal governments in the U.S. have
populations under 25,000."

You want to argue that, you can tell them.

Houston is 626 sq
miles with population of 2.2 million. Allegheny County is 745 sq miles
with a population of 1.2 million. Closer to 50% than 5% I think.
Still, don't see what that has to do with anything as far as gas going
stale is concerned.




I said, Houston Metro, 6 million. That would be 8,928 square miles, 12
times larger than Allegheny County. Houston encompasses at least 9
small cities and is adjacent to probably a dozen others. And the metro
area includes everything between Houston and Galveston with little open
land to distinguish city limits.

That is why we have the special fuels that don't last.


A great reason to not live in Houston Metro. If my gas suddenly started
to go bad like it used to in the 1920's, I'd be looking for some
explanations from someone. Is everything in Texas this backward?
Perhaps all the chemical plants are affecting judgement?

Would seem to me that if adding stabilizers to fuel fixed the problem,
then why on earth would the refractories not do it for you, like they
have been doing for us for over 50 years?

At any rate, just because Houston has problems, doesn't mean the rest of
the country does.






Snip



Not the imagination when you have to use the additives to keep the
equipment running. I did not start with additives but ended up there.


True that. All I could add is if you own Honda, or buy gas in Houston,
use gas stabilizer.

Or any other brand yard equipment.



--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
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On 3/20/2017 7:53 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/20/2017 4:18 PM, Jack wrote:
On 3/20/2017 11:10 AM, wrote:


Interesting. I have a 40 year old chain saw, and a 20 year old weed
wacker. For years I mixed regular gas and regular NON-detergent, 20
weight oil in the gas at I think 16-1 ratio. The mixture would sit for
YEARS before being used up, and never had a problem.


Jack - you live a charmed life ! .. and I'm truly happy for you.


I reckon. My brother also leads a charmed life. Couple of others in
here also lead a "charmed life" as they also don't have a problem. At
some point, certainly after 60+ years, I think there is more than
"charmed life" going on.


Absolutely, no knowledge of how other areas of the country deal with
real and specific problems.




But for those of us who aren't quite so lucky - the link below is
what Honda advises.

http://powerequipment.honda.com/gene...ecommendations



A quick reading of that link leads me to call total hogwash on that.
Number 4 says:
"If you do not plan to operate the generator frequently (less than once
a month), drain the carburetor following the directions shown in the
owner’s manual."

That is about as stupid as it gets. If it's true, and it isn't, I would
never buy a Honda generator as there is something drastically wrong with
an engine that needs gas less than 1 month old.


I suspect that all new power equipment has this statement.


Yeah, and California has statements cancer warnings plastered on
everything. Doesn't make it true. None of my newer stuff has had a
problem with "stale gas" either. Two John Deer tractors and a snow
blower bought in the last 5 years and no problems whatsoever.

Stihl Page 22
https://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/...038_Manual.pdf


My Brother has a Stihl chainsaw, and has no problem with old gas.

Echo Page 26
http://www.echo-usa.com/getattachmen...226_032213.pdf



By all means do what ever floats your boat. Simply sharing my personal,
first hand experiences.


As are we.


True enough. My recommendation is move out of Texas, where the gas lasts
about a month, according to your sources.

I doubt Luck is any part of the picture. No
one gets away with 60+ years of luck, with so much varied equipment.

I have no doubt that you are having spectacular results with how ever
you are dealing. Bring your equipment to Houston and buy gas here and
you will understand after a few years.


I don't want to go to Houston, and have to deal with all the problems.
Why don't you come to Pgh where we have no such problems, and can safely
ignore the fanatical rants on Honda literature, and our engines need no
special treatments to start easily and last for decades, even with year
old gas.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
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Jack writes:
On 3/20/2017 7:32 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/20/2017 4:45 PM, Jack wrote:


Well, anything over 300,000 is considered large.


Maybe to you. I grew up in corpus Christi, Tx. I consider it a
small place, 305,000.


Not to me, the National league of Cities.


Leon did, indeed, qualify his statement. He made no claims about
either you, or the National League of Cities.


[snip NLoC URL]


You want to argue that, you can tell them.


I don't believe Leon indicated any desire to argue the topic with
anyone, much less the National League of Cities.


That is why we have the special fuels that don't last.


A great reason to not live in Houston Metro. If my gas suddenly started
to go bad like it used to in the 1920's, I'd be looking for some


What relevence do the 1920's have in this context? Not even you
were driving then.

explanations from someone. Is everything in Texas this backward?


What's your problem? There are many places in the country that require
special fuel blends for various reasons (climate, smog abatement, politics, et
alia).

Perhaps all the chemical plants are affecting judgement?


Or perhaps you simply don't understand the problem and the current
set of solutions.


Would seem to me that if adding stabilizers to fuel fixed the problem,
then why on earth would the refractories not do it for you, like they
have been doing for us for over 50 years?


You do realize, I'm sure, that you are posting in a thread which is
discussing the long-term storage of gasoline motor fuels, right? Why
would the refineries want to spend to add an additive to all gasoline when the
by far vast majority of it is burned up with a few days of refining?


At any rate, just because Houston has problems, doesn't mean the rest of
the country does.


But it does. Look at any large metro area, whether it is the NYC area,
Houston, Atlanta, Phoenix, Los Angeles or the SF bay area - all of which
use fuel blends designed to reduce smog. Even Davenport Iowa, hardly
a large metro area, has mostly E15 and E85 blends - both of which are
difficult to store over long periods without causing problems in two-stroke
carbourated engines (primarily due to the propensity of the alcohol to
adsorb water).


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