it is hard for anyone used to doing things in the conventional way to
see all the possibilities with cnc and the prices are staggering but
add up the prices of your tools that this could replace and also consider
that your hands or fingers or face or etc are not in harms way which becomes
more important in two ways

first way is in the aging population of woodworkers and mishaps

second way is in the younger population and mishaps and due to
misconceptions of the dangers involved and poor training regimes

https://lagunatools.com/cnc/swift-se...ter-4-x-4-3hp/

https://lagunatools.com/cnc/cnc-turners/


smaller and lower cost

https://lagunatools.com/cnc/iq-series/

no doubt there are other offerings from others

laguna is a good example since they are forward thinking

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 12:38:03 -0800, Electric Comet
wrote:


it is hard for anyone used to doing things in the conventional way to
see all the possibilities with cnc and the prices are staggering but
add up the prices of your tools that this could replace and also consider
that your hands or fingers or face or etc are not in harms way which becomes
more important in two ways

first way is in the aging population of woodworkers and mishaps

second way is in the younger population and mishaps and due to
misconceptions of the dangers involved and poor training regimes

https://lagunatools.com/cnc/swift-se...ter-4-x-4-3hp/

https://lagunatools.com/cnc/cnc-turners/


smaller and lower cost

https://lagunatools.com/cnc/iq-series/

no doubt there are other offerings from others

laguna is a good example since they are forward thinking




Ever catch the flying tip of a broken router bit when it hits a hard
knot while being fed too hard??? Hot, sharp and FAST!!!!!
And for the jobs a table saw is best for, the speed ratio is a good 4
or 5 to 1 - in favour of the table saw.

wrote in message
...

Ever catch the flying tip of a broken router bit when it hits a hard
knot while being fed too hard??? Hot, sharp and FAST!!!!!

Or large piece of steel in a high hold int he vice when a fly cutter jerks
it out and launches it across the room. There is a reason I have enclosures
and poly crabinate shields around my cutting enevelopes.

And for the jobs a table saw is best for, the speed ratio is a good 4
or 5 to 1 - in favour of the table saw.

Price not with standing a CNC ciruclar saw like those used in some advanced
truss plants could eat up three table saws and spit out their component
parts before breakfast.

A large CNC router of the type EC (I told myself I wasn't getting sucked
into any more of his fantasies) is talking about won't beat a table saw for
speed and small kerf, but for accuracy and repeatability it will eat it
alive. The net savings in time will depend on the type of job, and how many
identical parts are needed. If you are making hundreds of shelves there is
something to be said for sliding a sheet of ply against the stops, turning
the vacumm on, pressing start, and walking over to the next machine while it
cuts all your parts for you. Even nested parts to optimize use of
materials.

.... and yes I can setup stops that won't move. :^)

On 2017-02-20, Bob La Londe wrote:

and poly crabinate shields around my cutting enevelopes.

Izzat a plastic made of discarded crab shells or did you mean
'polycarbonate'? 'enevelopes'??

Pull yer head out!!

nb

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2017-02-20, Bob La Londe wrote:

and poly crabinate shields around my cutting enevelopes.

Izzat a plastic made of discarded crab shells or did you mean
'polycarbonate'? 'enevelopes'??

Pull yer head out!!

No, I posted poly crabinate on purpose, because I figured I'd give some
crabby ******* a little joy at the opportunity to be an insulting jerk. See
yer happy now. Yer welcome.

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 17:41:29 -0500
wrote:

Ever catch the flying tip of a broken router bit when it hits a hard
knot while being fed too hard??? Hot, sharp and FAST!!!!!

what is your point
it is not clear to me

most cncs have shrouds that go around the business end

And for the jobs a table saw is best for, the speed ratio is a good 4
or 5 to 1 - in favour of the table saw.

not sure here either and as i said many that are used to doing things
in the conventional way will not immediately translate how to accomplish
tasks on a cnc

have to approach things differently

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:01:05 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

Ever catch the flying tip of a broken router bit when it hits a hard
knot while being fed too hard??? Hot, sharp and FAST!!!!!

Or large piece of steel in a high hold int he vice when a fly cutter jerks
it out and launches it across the room. There is a reason I have enclosures
and poly crabinate shields around my cutting enevelopes.

And for the jobs a table saw is best for, the speed ratio is a good 4
or 5 to 1 - in favour of the table saw.

Price not with standing a CNC ciruclar saw like those used in some advanced
truss plants could eat up three table saws and spit out their component
parts before breakfast.

A large CNC router of the type EC (I told myself I wasn't getting sucked
into any more of his fantasies) is talking about won't beat a table saw for
speed and small kerf, but for accuracy and repeatability it will eat it
alive. The net savings in time will depend on the type of job, and how many
identical parts are needed. If you are making hundreds of shelves there is
something to be said for sliding a sheet of ply against the stops, turning
the vacumm on, pressing start, and walking over to the next machine while it
cuts all your parts for you. Even nested parts to optimize use of
materials.

... and yes I can setup stops that won't move. :^)


And all of what you describe can be (and has been for many years) done
without any CNC.
Automated feed has been around for over 100 years I saw an old sticker
setup for making window sash that was designed before the turn of the
last century that could crank out sash components faster than a 2 man
assembly crew could keep up. Beautiful piece of machinery - and most
of the parts were hand forged. It made all of the parts required to
make a 6 or 9 pane double-hung sash with virtually no manual input.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:01:05 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..

Ever catch the flying tip of a broken router bit when it hits a hard
knot while being fed too hard??? Hot, sharp and FAST!!!!!

Or large piece of steel in a high hold int he vice when a fly cutter jerks
it out and launches it across the room. There is a reason I have
enclosures
and poly crabinate shields around my cutting enevelopes.

And for the jobs a table saw is best for, the speed ratio is a good 4
or 5 to 1 - in favour of the table saw.

Price not with standing a CNC ciruclar saw like those used in some
advanced
truss plants could eat up three table saws and spit out their component
parts before breakfast.

A large CNC router of the type EC (I told myself I wasn't getting sucked
into any more of his fantasies) is talking about won't beat a table saw
for
speed and small kerf, but for accuracy and repeatability it will eat it
alive. The net savings in time will depend on the type of job, and how
many
identical parts are needed. If you are making hundreds of shelves there
is
something to be said for sliding a sheet of ply against the stops, turning
the vacumm on, pressing start, and walking over to the next machine while
it
cuts all your parts for you. Even nested parts to optimize use of
materials.

... and yes I can setup stops that won't move. :^)


And all of what you describe can be (and has been for many years) done
without any CNC.
Automated feed has been around for over 100 years I saw an old sticker
setup for making window sash that was designed before the turn of the
last century that could crank out sash components faster than a 2 man
assembly crew could keep up. Beautiful piece of machinery - and most
of the parts were hand forged. It made all of the parts required to
make a 6 or 9 pane double-hung sash with virtually no manual input.

I guess CNC is just a stupid idea, computers are totally worthless, and
neither will ever catch on. LOL.

Sure you can do a dedicated process in an automated manner without computer
controlled equipment, but really. How flexible is it? Honestly? And what
does it cost? Your machinery may even be able to be reconfigured for
similar jobs, but on a CNC router I can rough out guitar bodies today,
cabinet asembley's tomorrow, all the parts to build a boat the next day, cut
out fishing rod racks the next day, and I don't have as much money invest or
have to be down to reconfigure the line. Just add consumables and press
start.

There is a local machinist who I've learned a lot from who has that
attitude. A lot of one off work really is faster and easier to do with
machines who's ancesters from the early days of the industrial revolution
don't look much different than their modern counter parts. I do have two
manual mills several drill presses, and 2 manual lathes. I use them. I
wouldn't be without them. I even use my big CNC mill in a semi manual mode
on a regular basis. Sometimes it is easier to just turn the handles, but
CNC really brings productivity to the small shop when its used
intelligently. The difference is I am a one man shop and I produce about as
much gross product as he does with 6 guys in his shop. To be fair the parts
I make would be pretty impractical to make manually. It could be done, but
it reuqires somebody who is both a craftsman and an artist. Many of the
parts he makes are one off. It doesn't make sense to program a CNC lathe to
cut a thread, when you can do it manually in a few minutes with just by
setting the threading gears on your manual lathe.

While today's parts are cutting I am designing the parts for tomorrow and
the next day.

I don't disrespect the ability to do work manually. I still own a table
saw, a RAS, a couple miter saws, several jig saws, a couple circular saws, a
couple wet tile saws, reciprocating saws, and even arm strong saws like
drywall saws, hand saws, coping saws, a buck saw, and a couple hand miter
saws with miter boxes. Probabaly atleast a half dozen or more I didn't
think of at the moment, but know where they are when I need them There are
times when every one of those is the right tool for the job, but none of
them can work by itself while I figure out what its going to be doing
tomorrow.

Nobody needs to be threatened by CNC either. It will not replace scribing
in a piece for an exact fit anytime soon. Its not going to run that piece
through the bandsaw following that scribed pencil line very well either.
Its not going to be thumping on a wall (or using a stud finder) to hang a
cleat anytime soon either. It probably not even going to hang anything on
that cleat any time soon.

What it is going to do is precise accurate repeatable work do in and day out
with no reconfiguration and down time limited to predictable maintenance.

The other day I used one of the CNC machines to make drawer dividers for
some new tool and parts cabinets in the machine room. I could have ripped
those pieces very quickly on the table saw, and then cut them down for cross
pieces. The gone back and notched them. Instead I wrote a program to fit a
sort of drawer divider kit on some pieces of plywood I had left over from
another project. My son was helping me and he asked why I didn't do it
manually. If I was only making one it would have probably been easier and
faster to do it manually. The pieces were layed out to maximize use of the
pieces of scrap. While one was cutting I was installing the previous one.
If I had done it manually. It would have taken me all day just to cut them.
I might not have even got them all cut in one day. Its tedious work. I
would have had to install them the next day. Instead I started in the
morning and was done by early afternoon. I had time to clean up and still
go fishing. Now I am sure I could have built a non computerized automated
system to make these drawer divider kits, but it would have taken me days.
Maybe weeks, and cost an order of magnittude more money than my CNC machine.
Sure it might even have produced the parts faster. That would be great if I
needed thirty thousand of them. For 50 I think the way I did it worked out
better.

Here is another example. If I take the time to machine a punch and die then
a punch press can crank out identical parts in sheet metal an order of
magnitude faster than a CNC mill or even a high powered CNC laser can
produce those same parts, but the CNC machine can cut out hundreds of
totally different parts in the time it takes to make that punch and die.

You know why built in light fixtures are so cheap nowadays. Its because the
guys making them have rooms full of expensive punch presses each one setup
to do only one job. Make a thousand of this part to be mated with a
thousand of the part being punched out on the machine next to it. Even a
thousand parts isn't enought o make it cost effective either. They have to
make a lot more than that. I've been in factories doing that type of work.
Holy crap! Talk about tedious. I would go insane if I had to work there
listening to those machines going ka-chunk, ka-chunk, ka-chunk, all day long
for years on end. That's where your non-computerized semi automated factory
starts to shine. Making ten thousand mind numbingly boring identical parts
for pennies on the unit profit margins. I wonder how much it would cost to
retool that line though if a UBC change causes building departments
nationwide to say they have to build those stupid light cans differently
now.

Yeah, you are right. Its just a fad and it will never catch on. LOL.

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 19:51:28 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:01:05 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:


wrote in message
...

Ever catch the flying tip of a broken router bit when it hits a hard
knot while being fed too hard??? Hot, sharp and FAST!!!!!

Or large piece of steel in a high hold int he vice when a fly cutter jerks
it out and launches it across the room. There is a reason I have
enclosures
and poly crabinate shields around my cutting enevelopes.

And for the jobs a table saw is best for, the speed ratio is a good 4
or 5 to 1 - in favour of the table saw.

Price not with standing a CNC ciruclar saw like those used in some
advanced
truss plants could eat up three table saws and spit out their component
parts before breakfast.

A large CNC router of the type EC (I told myself I wasn't getting sucked
into any more of his fantasies) is talking about won't beat a table saw
for
speed and small kerf, but for accuracy and repeatability it will eat it
alive. The net savings in time will depend on the type of job, and how
many
identical parts are needed. If you are making hundreds of shelves there
is
something to be said for sliding a sheet of ply against the stops, turning
the vacumm on, pressing start, and walking over to the next machine while
it
cuts all your parts for you. Even nested parts to optimize use of
materials.

... and yes I can setup stops that won't move. :^)


And all of what you describe can be (and has been for many years) done
without any CNC.
Automated feed has been around for over 100 years I saw an old sticker
setup for making window sash that was designed before the turn of the
last century that could crank out sash components faster than a 2 man
assembly crew could keep up. Beautiful piece of machinery - and most
of the parts were hand forged. It made all of the parts required to
make a 6 or 9 pane double-hung sash with virtually no manual input.

I guess CNC is just a stupid idea, computers are totally worthless, and
neither will ever catch on. LOL.

To replace a TS? Sure it's a stupid idea (one of EC's best stupid
ideas).

Sure you can do a dedicated process in an automated manner without computer
controlled equipment, but really. How flexible is it? Honestly? And what
does it cost? Your machinery may even be able to be reconfigured for
similar jobs, but on a CNC router I can rough out guitar bodies today,
cabinet asembley's tomorrow, all the parts to build a boat the next day, cut
out fishing rod racks the next day, and I don't have as much money invest or
have to be down to reconfigure the line. Just add consumables and press
start.

Do you make guitar bodies on your TS?

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 19:51:28 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:
snipped
And all of what you describe can be (and has been for many years) done
without any CNC.
Automated feed has been around for over 100 years I saw an old sticker
setup for making window sash that was designed before the turn of the
last century that could crank out sash components faster than a 2 man
assembly crew could keep up. Beautiful piece of machinery - and most
of the parts were hand forged. It made all of the parts required to
make a 6 or 9 pane double-hung sash with virtually no manual input.

I guess CNC is just a stupid idea, computers are totally worthless, and
neither will ever catch on. LOL.

Never said that. I make my living on computers these days. Just
saying automation and CNC are not necessarily the same thing.

Sure you can do a dedicated process in an automated manner without computer
controlled equipment, but really. How flexible is it? Honestly? And what
does it cost? Your machinery may even be able to be reconfigured for
similar jobs, but on a CNC router I can rough out guitar bodies today,
cabinet asembley's tomorrow, all the parts to build a boat the next day, cut
out fishing rod racks the next day, and I don't have as much money invest or
have to be down to reconfigure the line. Just add consumables and press
start.

True - but the example I was replying to most certainly did not
require CNC (cutting cabinet shelves to length automatically)

There is a local machinist who I've learned a lot from who has that
attitude. A lot of one off work really is faster and easier to do with
machines who's ancesters from the early days of the industrial revolution
don't look much different than their modern counter parts. I do have two
manual mills several drill presses, and 2 manual lathes. I use them. I
wouldn't be without them. I even use my big CNC mill in a semi manual mode
on a regular basis. Sometimes it is easier to just turn the handles, but
CNC really brings productivity to the small shop when its used
intelligently.

AS long as they work properly, they sure can. I spent many hours
chasing down the problem on a fairly large and quite expensive CNC
lathe a few years ago. It might make 20, or 50, or 55 good parts, then
all of a sudden it started making junk. Shut it off and restart it,
and it might make 5, or mabee 500 before it went "off the reservation"
again.
I improved it significantly, but they still had to keep a close tab
on it - checking every 50 or so parts to be sure it was still behaving
-

The difference is I am a one man shop and I produce about as
much gross product as he does with 6 guys in his shop. To be fair the parts
I make would be pretty impractical to make manually. It could be done, but
it reuqires somebody who is both a craftsman and an artist. Many of the
parts he makes are one off. It doesn't make sense to program a CNC lathe to
cut a thread, when you can do it manually in a few minutes with just by
setting the threading gears on your manual lathe.


While today's parts are cutting I am designing the parts for tomorrow and
the next day.

I don't disrespect the ability to do work manually. I still own a table
saw, a RAS, a couple miter saws, several jig saws, a couple circular saws, a
couple wet tile saws, reciprocating saws, and even arm strong saws like
drywall saws, hand saws, coping saws, a buck saw, and a couple hand miter
saws with miter boxes. Probabaly atleast a half dozen or more I didn't
think of at the moment, but know where they are when I need them There are
times when every one of those is the right tool for the job, but none of
them can work by itself while I figure out what its going to be doing
tomorrow.

And they all do jobs that a CNC machine that would obsolete a table
saw could NEVER do effectively - correct??
Nobody needs to be threatened by CNC either. It will not replace scribing
in a piece for an exact fit anytime soon. Its not going to run that piece
through the bandsaw following that scribed pencil line very well either.
Its not going to be thumping on a wall (or using a stud finder) to hang a
cleat anytime soon either. It probably not even going to hang anything on
that cleat any time soon.

Like I say when customers say they can't stand how quickly computers
become "obsolete". If it still does the job you bought it for, it's
not obsolete. Just because an expensive laser can create a very
accurate hole in just about anything, it hasn't made a n electric hand
drill or a drill press "obsolete"

What it is going to do is precise accurate repeatable work do in and day out
with no reconfiguration and down time limited to predictable maintenance.

What it does BEST is make, say, 5 of one part, then 50 of another,
then 5000 of another, without having to mechanically reconfigure the
machine.. That said, a cnc screw machine and a 16X60 lathe are both
technically cnc lathes - and neither one will efficiently do the job
of the other.

The other day I used one of the CNC machines to make drawer dividers for
some new tool and parts cabinets in the machine room. I could have ripped
those pieces very quickly on the table saw, and then cut them down for cross
pieces. The gone back and notched them. Instead I wrote a program to fit a
sort of drawer divider kit on some pieces of plywood I had left over from
another project. My son was helping me and he asked why I didn't do it
manually. If I was only making one it would have probably been easier and
faster to do it manually. The pieces were layed out to maximize use of the
pieces of scrap. While one was cutting I was installing the previous one.
If I had done it manually. It would have taken me all day just to cut them.
I might not have even got them all cut in one day. Its tedious work. I
would have had to install them the next day. Instead I started in the
morning and was done by early afternoon. I had time to clean up and still
go fishing. Now I am sure I could have built a non computerized automated
system to make these drawer divider kits, but it would have taken me days.
Maybe weeks, and cost an order of magnittude more money than my CNC machine.
Sure it might even have produced the parts faster. That would be great if I
needed thirty thousand of them. For 50 I think the way I did it worked out
better.
You are definitely correct. And making the program for the tool chest
parts made sense too because if you need to either make another one or
replace the parts of the ones you just made, you can make identical
replacements in a jiffy.

Here is another example. If I take the time to machine a punch and die then
a punch press can crank out identical parts in sheet metal an order of
magnitude faster than a CNC mill or even a high powered CNC laser can
produce those same parts, but the CNC machine can cut out hundreds of
totally different parts in the time it takes to make that punch and die.

You are preaching to the choir. I never said there was anything wrong
with CNC - just that cnc isn't always the solution - and no CNC
machine will make a table saw obsolete for the "recreational
woodworker" who this newsgroup is aimed at. Not in your lifetime or
mine.

You know why built in light fixtures are so cheap nowadays. Its because the
guys making them have rooms full of expensive punch presses each one setup
to do only one job. Make a thousand of this part to be mated with a
thousand of the part being punched out on the machine next to it. Even a
thousand parts isn't enought o make it cost effective either. They have to
make a lot more than that. I've been in factories doing that type of work.
Holy crap! Talk about tedious. I would go insane if I had to work there
listening to those machines going ka-chunk, ka-chunk, ka-chunk, all day long
for years on end. That's where your non-computerized semi automated factory
starts to shine. Making ten thousand mind numbingly boring identical parts
for pennies on the unit profit margins. I wonder how much it would cost to
retool that line though if a UBC change causes building departments
nationwide to say they have to build those stupid light cans differently
now.

Not quite so long if they can use CNC lathes and mills to make the
new punches.= as if they have to crank out all the new tooling by hand
on manual machines.

Then again, there ARE NC machines that are not CNC. - those old punch
tape machines - many of which had NO electronics - much less
computers, involved.

Yeah, you are right. Its just a fad and it will never catch on. LOL.
Never said it was a fad. Never said it wouldn't catch on. It sure
made my crokinole board playing surface a lot nicer than I could have
done it by hand - even if it took the cnc router over 3 hours to make
the 2.
And it will NEVER replace a table saw. It won't replace my Myford
super 7 either, nor an english wheel, or a shrinker/strtcher, or a
planishing hammer. A friend with a seriously disabled daughter made
himself a CNC router - a full 3 D "gantry" type - for milling custom
foam seating pads for her wheelchair. He recovered the cost of the
machine (which he designed and built himself) by making only a couple
custom foam cushions for his daughter - they retail for several
thousand dollars EACH. and they only last a few months - and having
several different "styles" helped prevent pressure sores - or "bed
sores" by rotating between them on a daily basis.

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 22:20:33 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 19:51:28 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:01:05 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:


wrote in message
m...

Ever catch the flying tip of a broken router bit when it hits a hard
knot while being fed too hard??? Hot, sharp and FAST!!!!!

Or large piece of steel in a high hold int he vice when a fly cutter jerks
it out and launches it across the room. There is a reason I have
enclosures
and poly crabinate shields around my cutting enevelopes.

And for the jobs a table saw is best for, the speed ratio is a good 4
or 5 to 1 - in favour of the table saw.

Price not with standing a CNC ciruclar saw like those used in some
advanced
truss plants could eat up three table saws and spit out their component
parts before breakfast.

A large CNC router of the type EC (I told myself I wasn't getting sucked
into any more of his fantasies) is talking about won't beat a table saw
for
speed and small kerf, but for accuracy and repeatability it will eat it
alive. The net savings in time will depend on the type of job, and how
many
identical parts are needed. If you are making hundreds of shelves there
is
something to be said for sliding a sheet of ply against the stops, turning
the vacumm on, pressing start, and walking over to the next machine while
it
cuts all your parts for you. Even nested parts to optimize use of
materials.

... and yes I can setup stops that won't move. :^)


And all of what you describe can be (and has been for many years) done
without any CNC.
Automated feed has been around for over 100 years I saw an old sticker
setup for making window sash that was designed before the turn of the
last century that could crank out sash components faster than a 2 man
assembly crew could keep up. Beautiful piece of machinery - and most
of the parts were hand forged. It made all of the parts required to
make a 6 or 9 pane double-hung sash with virtually no manual input.

I guess CNC is just a stupid idea, computers are totally worthless, and
neither will ever catch on. LOL.

To replace a TS? Sure it's a stupid idea (one of EC's best stupid
ideas).

Sure you can do a dedicated process in an automated manner without computer
controlled equipment, but really. How flexible is it? Honestly? And what
does it cost? Your machinery may even be able to be reconfigured for
similar jobs, but on a CNC router I can rough out guitar bodies today,
cabinet asembley's tomorrow, all the parts to build a boat the next day, cut
out fishing rod racks the next day, and I don't have as much money invest or
have to be down to reconfigure the line. Just add consumables and press
start.

Do you make guitar bodies on your TS?
You should see the guitars!!! similar to "cigar box ukeleles" They
are used by "square" musicians - - -

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 19:51:28 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:01:05 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:


wrote in message
m...

Ever catch the flying tip of a broken router bit when it hits a hard
knot while being fed too hard??? Hot, sharp and FAST!!!!!

Or large piece of steel in a high hold int he vice when a fly cutter
jerks
it out and launches it across the room. There is a reason I have
enclosures
and poly crabinate shields around my cutting enevelopes.

And for the jobs a table saw is best for, the speed ratio is a good 4
or 5 to 1 - in favour of the table saw.

Price not with standing a CNC ciruclar saw like those used in some
advanced
truss plants could eat up three table saws and spit out their component
parts before breakfast.

A large CNC router of the type EC (I told myself I wasn't getting sucked
into any more of his fantasies) is talking about won't beat a table saw
for
speed and small kerf, but for accuracy and repeatability it will eat it
alive. The net savings in time will depend on the type of job, and how
many
identical parts are needed. If you are making hundreds of shelves there
is
something to be said for sliding a sheet of ply against the stops,
turning
the vacumm on, pressing start, and walking over to the next machine
while
it
cuts all your parts for you. Even nested parts to optimize use of
materials.

... and yes I can setup stops that won't move. :^)


And all of what you describe can be (and has been for many years) done
without any CNC.
Automated feed has been around for over 100 years I saw an old sticker
setup for making window sash that was designed before the turn of the
last century that could crank out sash components faster than a 2 man
assembly crew could keep up. Beautiful piece of machinery - and most
of the parts were hand forged. It made all of the parts required to
make a 6 or 9 pane double-hung sash with virtually no manual input.

I guess CNC is just a stupid idea, computers are totally worthless, and
neither will ever catch on. LOL.

To replace a TS? Sure it's a stupid idea (one of EC's best stupid
ideas).

Sure you can do a dedicated process in an automated manner without
computer
controlled equipment, but really. How flexible is it? Honestly? And
what
does it cost? Your machinery may even be able to be reconfigured for
similar jobs, but on a CNC router I can rough out guitar bodies today,
cabinet asembley's tomorrow, all the parts to build a boat the next day,
cut
out fishing rod racks the next day, and I don't have as much money invest
or
have to be down to reconfigure the line. Just add consumables and press
start.

Do you make guitar bodies on your TS?

I suppose I could if I really wanted to. And, no. Not just square bodies
either. If I was making just one I might even be able to rough it out
nearly ready to sand with just a little creativity, and a custom sled or two
faster than I could do it on a CNC mill, but then I am one of those guys who
uses a tile saw to carve corners rather than hide them under the trim like
most "pro" tile guys. Yes, one of my two tile saws is technically a table
saw so... LOL.

The thing about guitar bodies (electric anyway) is they can be any shape at
all. As long as they look good to "somebody" that all that even matters.

Do I make guitar bodies on a table saw. No, but I could. If it was the
only power saw I could afford I would have to wouldn't I. Either that or do
it by hand. LOL. When the only tool you have is a hammer...

On Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:01:48 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 19:51:28 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:01:05 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:


wrote in message
om...

Ever catch the flying tip of a broken router bit when it hits a hard
knot while being fed too hard??? Hot, sharp and FAST!!!!!

Or large piece of steel in a high hold int he vice when a fly cutter
jerks
it out and launches it across the room. There is a reason I have
enclosures
and poly crabinate shields around my cutting enevelopes.

And for the jobs a table saw is best for, the speed ratio is a good 4
or 5 to 1 - in favour of the table saw.

Price not with standing a CNC ciruclar saw like those used in some
advanced
truss plants could eat up three table saws and spit out their component
parts before breakfast.

A large CNC router of the type EC (I told myself I wasn't getting sucked
into any more of his fantasies) is talking about won't beat a table saw
for
speed and small kerf, but for accuracy and repeatability it will eat it
alive. The net savings in time will depend on the type of job, and how
many
identical parts are needed. If you are making hundreds of shelves there
is
something to be said for sliding a sheet of ply against the stops,
turning
the vacumm on, pressing start, and walking over to the next machine
while
it
cuts all your parts for you. Even nested parts to optimize use of
materials.

... and yes I can setup stops that won't move. :^)


And all of what you describe can be (and has been for many years) done
without any CNC.
Automated feed has been around for over 100 years I saw an old sticker
setup for making window sash that was designed before the turn of the
last century that could crank out sash components faster than a 2 man
assembly crew could keep up. Beautiful piece of machinery - and most
of the parts were hand forged. It made all of the parts required to
make a 6 or 9 pane double-hung sash with virtually no manual input.

I guess CNC is just a stupid idea, computers are totally worthless, and
neither will ever catch on. LOL.

To replace a TS? Sure it's a stupid idea (one of EC's best stupid
ideas).

Sure you can do a dedicated process in an automated manner without
computer
controlled equipment, but really. How flexible is it? Honestly? And
what
does it cost? Your machinery may even be able to be reconfigured for
similar jobs, but on a CNC router I can rough out guitar bodies today,
cabinet asembley's tomorrow, all the parts to build a boat the next day,
cut
out fishing rod racks the next day, and I don't have as much money invest
or
have to be down to reconfigure the line. Just add consumables and press
start.

Do you make guitar bodies on your TS?

I suppose I could if I really wanted to. And, no. Not just square bodies
either. If I was making just one I might even be able to rough it out
nearly ready to sand with just a little creativity, and a custom sled or two
faster than I could do it on a CNC mill, but then I am one of those guys who
uses a tile saw to carve corners rather than hide them under the trim like
most "pro" tile guys. Yes, one of my two tile saws is technically a table
saw so... LOL.

The thing about guitar bodies (electric anyway) is they can be any shape at
all. As long as they look good to "somebody" that all that even matters.

Do I make guitar bodies on a table saw. No, but I could. If it was the
only power saw I could afford I would have to wouldn't I. Either that or do
it by hand. LOL. When the only tool you have is a hammer...

Please read the whole thread.

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:01:48 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 19:51:28 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:01:05 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:sj7kachol0oq8d2j1llincv991c2maongj@4ax. com...

Ever catch the flying tip of a broken router bit when it hits a hard
knot while being fed too hard??? Hot, sharp and FAST!!!!!

Or large piece of steel in a high hold int he vice when a fly cutter
jerks
it out and launches it across the room. There is a reason I have
enclosures
and poly crabinate shields around my cutting enevelopes.

And for the jobs a table saw is best for, the speed ratio is a good
4
or 5 to 1 - in favour of the table saw.

Price not with standing a CNC ciruclar saw like those used in some
advanced
truss plants could eat up three table saws and spit out their
component
parts before breakfast.

A large CNC router of the type EC (I told myself I wasn't getting
sucked
into any more of his fantasies) is talking about won't beat a table
saw
for
speed and small kerf, but for accuracy and repeatability it will eat
it
alive. The net savings in time will depend on the type of job, and
how
many
identical parts are needed. If you are making hundreds of shelves
there
is
something to be said for sliding a sheet of ply against the stops,
turning
the vacumm on, pressing start, and walking over to the next machine
while
it
cuts all your parts for you. Even nested parts to optimize use of
materials.

... and yes I can setup stops that won't move. :^)


And all of what you describe can be (and has been for many years) done
without any CNC.
Automated feed has been around for over 100 years I saw an old sticker
setup for making window sash that was designed before the turn of the
last century that could crank out sash components faster than a 2 man
assembly crew could keep up. Beautiful piece of machinery - and most
of the parts were hand forged. It made all of the parts required to
make a 6 or 9 pane double-hung sash with virtually no manual input.

I guess CNC is just a stupid idea, computers are totally worthless, and
neither will ever catch on. LOL.

To replace a TS? Sure it's a stupid idea (one of EC's best stupid
ideas).

Sure you can do a dedicated process in an automated manner without
computer
controlled equipment, but really. How flexible is it? Honestly? And
what
does it cost? Your machinery may even be able to be reconfigured for
similar jobs, but on a CNC router I can rough out guitar bodies today,
cabinet asembley's tomorrow, all the parts to build a boat the next day,
cut
out fishing rod racks the next day, and I don't have as much money
invest
or
have to be down to reconfigure the line. Just add consumables and press
start.

Do you make guitar bodies on your TS?

I suppose I could if I really wanted to. And, no. Not just square bodies
either. If I was making just one I might even be able to rough it out
nearly ready to sand with just a little creativity, and a custom sled or
two
faster than I could do it on a CNC mill, but then I am one of those guys
who
uses a tile saw to carve corners rather than hide them under the trim like
most "pro" tile guys. Yes, one of my two tile saws is technically a table
saw so... LOL.

The thing about guitar bodies (electric anyway) is they can be any shape
at
all. As long as they look good to "somebody" that all that even matters.

Do I make guitar bodies on a table saw. No, but I could. If it was the
only power saw I could afford I would have to wouldn't I. Either that or
do
it by hand. LOL. When the only tool you have is a hammer...

Please read the whole thread.

No, sorry. I can't do that. I'd have to unblock EC in order to do that. I
did read all the other posts though. LOL.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 10:07:57 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:01:48 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 19:51:28 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
om...
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:01:05 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:sj7kachol0oq8d2j1llincv991c2maongj@4ax .com...

Ever catch the flying tip of a broken router bit when it hits a hard
knot while being fed too hard??? Hot, sharp and FAST!!!!!

Or large piece of steel in a high hold int he vice when a fly cutter
jerks
it out and launches it across the room. There is a reason I have
enclosures
and poly crabinate shields around my cutting enevelopes.

And for the jobs a table saw is best for, the speed ratio is a good
4
or 5 to 1 - in favour of the table saw.

Price not with standing a CNC ciruclar saw like those used in some
advanced
truss plants could eat up three table saws and spit out their
component
parts before breakfast.

A large CNC router of the type EC (I told myself I wasn't getting
sucked
into any more of his fantasies) is talking about won't beat a table
saw
for
speed and small kerf, but for accuracy and repeatability it will eat
it
alive. The net savings in time will depend on the type of job, and
how
many
identical parts are needed. If you are making hundreds of shelves
there
is
something to be said for sliding a sheet of ply against the stops,
turning
the vacumm on, pressing start, and walking over to the next machine
while
it
cuts all your parts for you. Even nested parts to optimize use of
materials.

... and yes I can setup stops that won't move. :^)


And all of what you describe can be (and has been for many years) done
without any CNC.
Automated feed has been around for over 100 years I saw an old sticker
setup for making window sash that was designed before the turn of the
last century that could crank out sash components faster than a 2 man
assembly crew could keep up. Beautiful piece of machinery - and most
of the parts were hand forged. It made all of the parts required to
make a 6 or 9 pane double-hung sash with virtually no manual input.

I guess CNC is just a stupid idea, computers are totally worthless, and
neither will ever catch on. LOL.

To replace a TS? Sure it's a stupid idea (one of EC's best stupid
ideas).

Sure you can do a dedicated process in an automated manner without
computer
controlled equipment, but really. How flexible is it? Honestly? And
what
does it cost? Your machinery may even be able to be reconfigured for
similar jobs, but on a CNC router I can rough out guitar bodies today,
cabinet asembley's tomorrow, all the parts to build a boat the next day,
cut
out fishing rod racks the next day, and I don't have as much money
invest
or
have to be down to reconfigure the line. Just add consumables and press
start.

Do you make guitar bodies on your TS?

I suppose I could if I really wanted to. And, no. Not just square bodies
either. If I was making just one I might even be able to rough it out
nearly ready to sand with just a little creativity, and a custom sled or
two
faster than I could do it on a CNC mill, but then I am one of those guys
who
uses a tile saw to carve corners rather than hide them under the trim like
most "pro" tile guys. Yes, one of my two tile saws is technically a table
saw so... LOL.

The thing about guitar bodies (electric anyway) is they can be any shape
at
all. As long as they look good to "somebody" that all that even matters.

Do I make guitar bodies on a table saw. No, but I could. If it was the
only power saw I could afford I would have to wouldn't I. Either that or
do
it by hand. LOL. When the only tool you have is a hammer...

Please read the whole thread.

No, sorry. I can't do that. I'd have to unblock EC in order to do that. I
did read all the other posts though. LOL.

That's a good of an answer as any. ;-)

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 12:38:03 -0800
Electric Comet wrote:

second way is in the younger population and mishaps and due to

speaking of the younger population

having a shop outfitted with cncs in school might make the idea of
woodshop and metal shop more palatable for the school officials
due to the greatly improved safety of a cnc

parents would also feel better about it

cnc reduce the anxiety of operating dangerous machinery in a big
way