On their generic stuff is their anyone that has used both and see any
difference in overall quality in things like chisels, router bits,
Forstner bits. speaking of woodriver vs Rockler ??

Like I thought I got a good deal on a set but only got about 15 or so
holes using a 3/4? bit, and the young lady at their store said yep,
that is about all they are good for.

So I figured well at least I got a few good holes, and when I replace
it, I'll go for a better brand. But I don't see any with carbide
cutting surfaces. At least not yet.

On 10/27/16 10:17 PM, OFWW wrote:
On their generic stuff is their anyone that has used both and see any
difference in overall quality in things like chisels, router bits,
Forstner bits. speaking of woodriver vs Rockler ??

Like I thought I got a good deal on a set but only got about 15 or so
holes using a 3/4? bit, and the young lady at their store said yep,
that is about all they are good for.

So I figured well at least I got a few good holes, and when I replace
it, I'll go for a better brand. But I don't see any with carbide
cutting surfaces. At least not yet.


Both of their house brand stuff is the same Chiwanese crap.
It is what it is. Take any house branded tools in either store, divide
the price in half, and if it woulds too good to be true, it is.

If you need something for hundreds of holes, like a 35mm (1-3/8")
concealed hinge Forstner bit, go with something name-brand and not the
house generic.

I pick up their stuff when it goes on sale for 50% off and consider it
"bonus" tools that I keep in the van for when I need it. But I never,
ever consider any of the Woo-Driver or Rockler Blue ****e production
quality tools.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Thu, 27 Oct 2016 22:55:04 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 10/27/16 10:17 PM, OFWW wrote:
On their generic stuff is their anyone that has used both and see any
difference in overall quality in things like chisels, router bits,
Forstner bits. speaking of woodriver vs Rockler ??

Like I thought I got a good deal on a set but only got about 15 or so
holes using a 3/4? bit, and the young lady at their store said yep,
that is about all they are good for.

So I figured well at least I got a few good holes, and when I replace
it, I'll go for a better brand. But I don't see any with carbide
cutting surfaces. At least not yet.


Both of their house brand stuff is the same Chiwanese crap.
It is what it is. Take any house branded tools in either store, divide
the price in half, and if it woulds too good to be true, it is.

If you need something for hundreds of holes, like a 35mm (1-3/8")
concealed hinge Forstner bit, go with something name-brand and not the
house generic.

I pick up their stuff when it goes on sale for 50% off and consider it
"bonus" tools that I keep in the van for when I need it. But I never,
ever consider any of the Woo-Driver or Rockler Blue ****e production
quality tools.

I was afraid of that.

When I was working for a living I remember a wood bit that came out
that had a head like a Forstner bit, short shank but it was touted as
being able to almost make a U turn in the wood. Well it can in real
handy for running copper tubing, and power in the studs and headers of
walls and lasted, well long enough I don't remember buying any more
when one got lost or a new guy came in.

When I saw these Forstner bits for wood working I though Great, they
must even be better. Bah humbug, wasn't the case.

I just bought three different 3/4 bits at Home despot, one or two?
With carbide, going to see which works better. All Name brands.

For my router bits I now go to a sharpening shop where they actually
stock the good stuff. Oddly the prices aren't all that much different
for one-offs.

On 10/27/2016 10:17 PM, OFWW wrote:
On their generic stuff is their anyone that has used both and see any
difference in overall quality in things like chisels, router bits,
Forstner bits. speaking of woodriver vs Rockler ??

Like I thought I got a good deal on a set but only got about 15 or so
holes using a 3/4? bit, and the young lady at their store said yep,
that is about all they are good for.

So I figured well at least I got a few good holes, and when I replace
it, I'll go for a better brand. But I don't see any with carbide
cutting surfaces. At least not yet.


I do find that Rocker is typically less expensive than Woodcraft and
that may be a regional thing.

As far as anything Chinese that cuts I would steer clear if you want
quality. I would hate to think that you have to get carbide to get an
edge that lasts, considering Forstner bits. I have an Austrian made set
of Forstner bits that I bought probably 30 years ago. Pretty much still
cut very well. I know that I have drilled many hundreds of holes with
the 1.375", bit a good substitute for a 35mm bit.

It finally wore out and I replaced with the Rockler carbide bit a few
years ago, it is simply "ok".

Look for HSS drill bits and you will do much better.

On 10/27/2016 11:17 PM, OFWW wrote:
On their generic stuff is their anyone that has used both and see any
difference in overall quality in things like chisels, router bits,
Forstner bits. speaking of woodriver vs Rockler ??

Like I thought I got a good deal on a set but only got about 15 or so
holes using a 3/4? bit, and the young lady at their store said yep,
that is about all they are good for.

So I figured well at least I got a few good holes, and when I replace
it, I'll go for a better brand. But I don't see any with carbide
cutting surfaces. At least not yet.


If you want good you will have to pay for it.

https://www.amazon.com/Freud-FC-107-.../dp/B0000225ZL

Even the regular Freud bits hold up well. I've been using some of mine for
15+ years but their carbide bits are supposed to be fantastic.

On 10/27/16 11:15 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2016 22:55:04 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 10/27/16 10:17 PM, OFWW wrote:
On their generic stuff is their anyone that has used both and see any
difference in overall quality in things like chisels, router bits,
Forstner bits. speaking of woodriver vs Rockler ??

Like I thought I got a good deal on a set but only got about 15 or so
holes using a 3/4? bit, and the young lady at their store said yep,
that is about all they are good for.

So I figured well at least I got a few good holes, and when I replace
it, I'll go for a better brand. But I don't see any with carbide
cutting surfaces. At least not yet.


Both of their house brand stuff is the same Chiwanese crap.
It is what it is. Take any house branded tools in either store, divide
the price in half, and if it woulds too good to be true, it is.

If you need something for hundreds of holes, like a 35mm (1-3/8")
concealed hinge Forstner bit, go with something name-brand and not the
house generic.

I pick up their stuff when it goes on sale for 50% off and consider it
"bonus" tools that I keep in the van for when I need it. But I never,
ever consider any of the Woo-Driver or Rockler Blue ****e production
quality tools.

I was afraid of that.

When I was working for a living I remember a wood bit that came out
that had a head like a Forstner bit, short shank but it was touted as
being able to almost make a U turn in the wood. Well it can in real
handy for running copper tubing, and power in the studs and headers of
walls and lasted, well long enough I don't remember buying any more
when one got lost or a new guy came in.

When I saw these Forstner bits for wood working I though Great, they
must even be better. Bah humbug, wasn't the case.

I just bought three different 3/4 bits at Home despot, one or two?
With carbide, going to see which works better. All Name brands.

For my router bits I now go to a sharpening shop where they actually
stock the good stuff. Oddly the prices aren't all that much different
for one-offs.


I have to back off on my statement a bit. (--- PUN!)
I just went out and checked the bit I was thinking of when I wrote that
and it turns out it was, in fact, the Woodcraft Woodriver brand.
This one...
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/142...pped-35mm.aspx

However, as you can see, it's not exactly cheap. It's carbide tipped
and very well made. This thing drilled a few hundred hinge holes in oak
cabinet doors and is still very sharp.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2016-10-28, OFWW wrote:
On their generic stuff is their anyone that has used both and see any
difference in overall quality in things like chisels, router bits,
Forstner bits. speaking of woodriver vs Rockler ??

Like I thought I got a good deal on a set but only got about 15 or so
holes using a 3/4? bit, and the young lady at their store said yep,
that is about all they are good for.

So I figured well at least I got a few good holes, and when I replace
it, I'll go for a better brand. But I don't see any with carbide
cutting surfaces. At least not yet.

I penned about 4 paragraphs, then found this:

https://www.lowes.com/projects/woodworking-and-crafts/drill-bits-buying-guide/article

nb

On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 10:47:57 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 10/27/16 11:15 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2016 22:55:04 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 10/27/16 10:17 PM, OFWW wrote:
On their generic stuff is their anyone that has used both and see any
difference in overall quality in things like chisels, router bits,
Forstner bits. speaking of woodriver vs Rockler ??

Like I thought I got a good deal on a set but only got about 15 or so
holes using a 3/4? bit, and the young lady at their store said yep,
that is about all they are good for.

So I figured well at least I got a few good holes, and when I replace
it, I'll go for a better brand. But I don't see any with carbide
cutting surfaces. At least not yet.


Both of their house brand stuff is the same Chiwanese crap.
It is what it is. Take any house branded tools in either store, divide
the price in half, and if it woulds too good to be true, it is.

If you need something for hundreds of holes, like a 35mm (1-3/8")
concealed hinge Forstner bit, go with something name-brand and not the
house generic.

I pick up their stuff when it goes on sale for 50% off and consider it
"bonus" tools that I keep in the van for when I need it. But I never,
ever consider any of the Woo-Driver or Rockler Blue ****e production
quality tools.

I was afraid of that.

When I was working for a living I remember a wood bit that came out
that had a head like a Forstner bit, short shank but it was touted as
being able to almost make a U turn in the wood. Well it can in real
handy for running copper tubing, and power in the studs and headers of
walls and lasted, well long enough I don't remember buying any more
when one got lost or a new guy came in.

When I saw these Forstner bits for wood working I though Great, they
must even be better. Bah humbug, wasn't the case.

I just bought three different 3/4 bits at Home despot, one or two?
With carbide, going to see which works better. All Name brands.

For my router bits I now go to a sharpening shop where they actually
stock the good stuff. Oddly the prices aren't all that much different
for one-offs.


I have to back off on my statement a bit. (--- PUN!)
I just went out and checked the bit I was thinking of when I wrote that
and it turns out it was, in fact, the Woodcraft Woodriver brand.
This one...
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/142...pped-35mm.aspx

However, as you can see, it's not exactly cheap. It's carbide tipped
and very well made. This thing drilled a few hundred hinge holes in oak
cabinet doors and is still very sharp.

I hadn't seen that one.

In looking at carbide bits at the box stores the cheap ones have
thinner carbide "Teeth"? tips?

Is that one still easy to see the center point of the bit when
spinning?

On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 08:04:38 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 10/27/2016 10:17 PM, OFWW wrote:
On their generic stuff is their anyone that has used both and see any
difference in overall quality in things like chisels, router bits,
Forstner bits. speaking of woodriver vs Rockler ??

Like I thought I got a good deal on a set but only got about 15 or so
holes using a 3/4? bit, and the young lady at their store said yep,
that is about all they are good for.

So I figured well at least I got a few good holes, and when I replace
it, I'll go for a better brand. But I don't see any with carbide
cutting surfaces. At least not yet.


I do find that Rocker is typically less expensive than Woodcraft and
that may be a regional thing.

As far as anything Chinese that cuts I would steer clear if you want
quality. I would hate to think that you have to get carbide to get an
edge that lasts, considering Forstner bits. I have an Austrian made set
of Forstner bits that I bought probably 30 years ago. Pretty much still
cut very well. I know that I have drilled many hundreds of holes with
the 1.375", bit a good substitute for a 35mm bit.

It finally wore out and I replaced with the Rockler carbide bit a few
years ago, it is simply "ok".

Look for HSS drill bits and you will do much better.

I'll try that, I dbl checked the woodriver set and they didn't say.
Funny thing is they start off with the same line as their Carbide 35mm
bit.

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/147...e-bit-set.aspx

These do burn if not kept within the specified RPM of the size. Even
then it depends on the wood drilled.

On 28 Oct 2016 17:02:50 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2016-10-28, OFWW wrote:
On their generic stuff is their anyone that has used both and see any
difference in overall quality in things like chisels, router bits,
Forstner bits. speaking of woodriver vs Rockler ??

Like I thought I got a good deal on a set but only got about 15 or so
holes using a 3/4? bit, and the young lady at their store said yep,
that is about all they are good for.

So I figured well at least I got a few good holes, and when I replace
it, I'll go for a better brand. But I don't see any with carbide
cutting surfaces. At least not yet.

I penned about 4 paragraphs, then found this:

https://www.lowes.com/projects/woodworking-and-crafts/drill-bits-buying-guide/article

nb

Excellent article. I would have loved to have had that "installer bit"
when I was working. I found the section on bit coatings to be
particularly true when working with metals of all types.

It is the wood stuff that is my short comings, but their article was
great on this, even has the links built in.

Thanks for the great find.

HF has brad bits, and coated bits that are cheap and work well. At
least for the money. I've bought them as throw away's for particular
jobs, but ended up keeping them in a tool box for usage on the job.

"OFWW" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Oct 2016 22:55:04 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 10/27/16 10:17 PM, OFWW wrote:
On their generic stuff is their anyone that has used both and see any
difference in overall quality in things like chisels, router bits,
Forstner bits. speaking of woodriver vs Rockler ??

Like I thought I got a good deal on a set but only got about 15 or so
holes using a 3/4? bit, and the young lady at their store said yep,
that is about all they are good for.

So I figured well at least I got a few good holes, and when I replace
it, I'll go for a better brand. But I don't see any with carbide
cutting surfaces. At least not yet.


Both of their house brand stuff is the same Chiwanese crap.
It is what it is. Take any house branded tools in either store, divide
the price in half, and if it woulds too good to be true, it is.

If you need something for hundreds of holes, like a 35mm (1-3/8")
concealed hinge Forstner bit, go with something name-brand and not the
house generic.

I pick up their stuff when it goes on sale for 50% off and consider it
"bonus" tools that I keep in the van for when I need it. But I never,
ever consider any of the Woo-Driver or Rockler Blue ****e production
quality tools.

I was afraid of that.

When I was working for a living I remember a wood bit that came out
that had a head like a Forstner bit, short shank but it was touted as
being able to almost make a U turn in the wood. Well it can in real
handy for running copper tubing, and power in the studs and headers of
walls and lasted, well long enough I don't remember buying any more
when one got lost or a new guy came in.

Ah, yes. 3D Zip Bits. I have a set my dad gave me many years ago. I've
destroyed the cutting edges on one of them when it cut into a wad of framing
naits. Yes a wad. LOL. The others look almost like new except for the
expected rub marks from drilling. I think the biggest in my set is 1-1/4.
Maybe only 1-1/8.

On 2016-10-28, OFWW wrote:

https://www.lowes.com/projects/woodworking-and-crafts/drill-bits-buying-guide/article

Thanks for the great find.

Glad you enjoyed it. I know I did.

I started to write about my experiences as a machinist and HSS and
tungsten carbide bits, but I needed to check some facts and I found
this article and learned a few new things, myself.

nb

On 10/28/2016 3:37 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 08:04:38 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 10/27/2016 10:17 PM, OFWW wrote:
On their generic stuff is their anyone that has used both and see any
difference in overall quality in things like chisels, router bits,
Forstner bits. speaking of woodriver vs Rockler ??

Like I thought I got a good deal on a set but only got about 15 or so
holes using a 3/4? bit, and the young lady at their store said yep,
that is about all they are good for.

So I figured well at least I got a few good holes, and when I replace
it, I'll go for a better brand. But I don't see any with carbide
cutting surfaces. At least not yet.


I do find that Rocker is typically less expensive than Woodcraft and
that may be a regional thing.

As far as anything Chinese that cuts I would steer clear if you want
quality. I would hate to think that you have to get carbide to get an
edge that lasts, considering Forstner bits. I have an Austrian made set
of Forstner bits that I bought probably 30 years ago. Pretty much still
cut very well. I know that I have drilled many hundreds of holes with
the 1.375", bit a good substitute for a 35mm bit.

It finally wore out and I replaced with the Rockler carbide bit a few
years ago, it is simply "ok".

Look for HSS drill bits and you will do much better.

I'll try that, I dbl checked the woodriver set and they didn't say.
Funny thing is they start off with the same line as their Carbide 35mm
bit.

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/147...e-bit-set.aspx

These do burn if not kept within the specified RPM of the size. Even
then it depends on the wood drilled.


Don't know if you realize it, but carbide is stronger than HSS, but not
sharper. HSS can be sharpened much sharper than Carbide.

Carbide lasts longer, takes high heat better, but for a real sharp cut,
HSS wins. Just don't overheat it, and the other thing is you can
resharpen it. Carbide requires a silicon wheel or diamond to sharpen,
while HSS can be sharpened with anything.

so if you want sharp and something that can be maintained, HSS.

--
Jeff

On 10/28/2016 1:02 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-10-28, OFWW wrote:
On their generic stuff is their anyone that has used both and see any
difference in overall quality in things like chisels, router bits,
Forstner bits. speaking of woodriver vs Rockler ??

Like I thought I got a good deal on a set but only got about 15 or so
holes using a 3/4? bit, and the young lady at their store said yep,
that is about all they are good for.

So I figured well at least I got a few good holes, and when I replace
it, I'll go for a better brand. But I don't see any with carbide
cutting surfaces. At least not yet.

I penned about 4 paragraphs, then found this:

https://www.lowes.com/projects/woodworking-and-crafts/drill-bits-buying-guide/article

nb


That was such BS.
HSS for just aluminum, really ..

So most of the milling bits are HSS, I use HSS bits for steel all the
time, I cut other HSS with them.

the Cobalt bits I have are for harder tough to cut metals.

The thing about carbide is you need to spin it at a much higher speed to
work it.

--
Jeff

On 10/28/2016 4:11 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-10-28, OFWW wrote:

https://www.lowes.com/projects/woodworking-and-crafts/drill-bits-buying-guide/article

Thanks for the great find.

Glad you enjoyed it. I know I did.

I started to write about my experiences as a machinist and HSS and
tungsten carbide bits, but I needed to check some facts and I found
this article and learned a few new things, myself.

nb

then you of all people know that HSS is not as light duty as the lowes
chart claims.

HSS can do interrupted cutting, for carbide you need a different grade.

there's nothing wrong with good HSS.

--
Jeff

On 2016-10-28, woodchucker wrote:

then you of all people know that HSS is not as light duty as the lowes
chart claims.

I do. HSS is all you really need fer any wood or metal.

Usta grind my own HSS lathe bits (w/ chip breaker) to turn 1-1/2" thk
X 18" dia SS Flanges. We only got into carbide bits much later. as
they became more popular and available fer production machining. I
was wondering about those "titanium" and "black oxide" drill bits and
other weirdness I see at hardware chain stores in bubble paks. I
didn't know they were merely titanium and blk oxide "coated" HSS. I
don't recall seeing "HSS" on the bubble card, anywhere.

nb

On 10/28/16 2:13 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 10:47:57 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 10/27/16 11:15 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2016 22:55:04 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 10/27/16 10:17 PM, OFWW wrote:
On their generic stuff is their anyone that has used both and see any
difference in overall quality in things like chisels, router bits,
Forstner bits. speaking of woodriver vs Rockler ??

Like I thought I got a good deal on a set but only got about 15 or so
holes using a 3/4? bit, and the young lady at their store said yep,
that is about all they are good for.

So I figured well at least I got a few good holes, and when I replace
it, I'll go for a better brand. But I don't see any with carbide
cutting surfaces. At least not yet.


Both of their house brand stuff is the same Chiwanese crap.
It is what it is. Take any house branded tools in either store, divide
the price in half, and if it woulds too good to be true, it is.

If you need something for hundreds of holes, like a 35mm (1-3/8")
concealed hinge Forstner bit, go with something name-brand and not the
house generic.

I pick up their stuff when it goes on sale for 50% off and consider it
"bonus" tools that I keep in the van for when I need it. But I never,
ever consider any of the Woo-Driver or Rockler Blue ****e production
quality tools.

I was afraid of that.

When I was working for a living I remember a wood bit that came out
that had a head like a Forstner bit, short shank but it was touted as
being able to almost make a U turn in the wood. Well it can in real
handy for running copper tubing, and power in the studs and headers of
walls and lasted, well long enough I don't remember buying any more
when one got lost or a new guy came in.

When I saw these Forstner bits for wood working I though Great, they
must even be better. Bah humbug, wasn't the case.

I just bought three different 3/4 bits at Home despot, one or two?
With carbide, going to see which works better. All Name brands.

For my router bits I now go to a sharpening shop where they actually
stock the good stuff. Oddly the prices aren't all that much different
for one-offs.


I have to back off on my statement a bit. (--- PUN!)
I just went out and checked the bit I was thinking of when I wrote that
and it turns out it was, in fact, the Woodcraft Woodriver brand.
This one...
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/142...pped-35mm.aspx

However, as you can see, it's not exactly cheap. It's carbide tipped
and very well made. This thing drilled a few hundred hinge holes in oak
cabinet doors and is still very sharp.

I hadn't seen that one.

In looking at carbide bits at the box stores the cheap ones have
thinner carbide "Teeth"? tips?

Is that one still easy to see the center point of the bit when
spinning?


Honestly, I couldn't say. I set up a positioning jig on my drill press
the last time I used it because I was doing dozens of doors.

I also ground down the tip because the door frames were pretty thin and
I didn't want to risk poking out the front side of the door frames.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 16:53:33 -0400, woodchucker
wrote:

On 10/28/2016 3:37 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 08:04:38 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 10/27/2016 10:17 PM, OFWW wrote:
On their generic stuff is their anyone that has used both and see any
difference in overall quality in things like chisels, router bits,
Forstner bits. speaking of woodriver vs Rockler ??

Like I thought I got a good deal on a set but only got about 15 or so
holes using a 3/4? bit, and the young lady at their store said yep,
that is about all they are good for.

So I figured well at least I got a few good holes, and when I replace
it, I'll go for a better brand. But I don't see any with carbide
cutting surfaces. At least not yet.


I do find that Rocker is typically less expensive than Woodcraft and
that may be a regional thing.

As far as anything Chinese that cuts I would steer clear if you want
quality. I would hate to think that you have to get carbide to get an
edge that lasts, considering Forstner bits. I have an Austrian made set
of Forstner bits that I bought probably 30 years ago. Pretty much still
cut very well. I know that I have drilled many hundreds of holes with
the 1.375", bit a good substitute for a 35mm bit.

It finally wore out and I replaced with the Rockler carbide bit a few
years ago, it is simply "ok".

Look for HSS drill bits and you will do much better.

I'll try that, I dbl checked the woodriver set and they didn't say.
Funny thing is they start off with the same line as their Carbide 35mm
bit.

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/147...e-bit-set.aspx

These do burn if not kept within the specified RPM of the size. Even
then it depends on the wood drilled.


Don't know if you realize it, but carbide is stronger than HSS, but not
sharper. HSS can be sharpened much sharper than Carbide.

Carbide lasts longer, takes high heat better, but for a real sharp cut,
HSS wins. Just don't overheat it, and the other thing is you can
resharpen it. Carbide requires a silicon wheel or diamond to sharpen,
while HSS can be sharpened with anything.

so if you want sharp and something that can be maintained, HSS.

I truly didn't know that. I have had a lot of HSS bits, destroyed some
on jobs and had no spares, but always seemed I could cut or grind off
that bad parts and then sharpen them and they almost always seemed to
be better than when I first got them. Never understood why, but what
very glad when it happened. Going to a store to purchase another, if
they even had the right sizes ate up a lot of time. Much faster this
way.

Is there a minimum standard for HSS? Reason I ask is some say their
bits are, yet there is a huge difference in quality.

On 10/28/2016 8:27 PM, OFWW wrote:

I truly didn't know that. I have had a lot of HSS bits, destroyed some
on jobs and had no spares, but always seemed I could cut or grind off
that bad parts and then sharpen them and they almost always seemed to
be better than when I first got them. Never understood why, but what
very glad when it happened.

Many tools from the factory are mediocre mass produced sharpened. If
you are good at sharpening you can usually do better.




Is there a minimum standard for HSS? Reason I ask is some say their
bits are, yet there is a huge difference in quality.


Not sure if there is a standard, but when cost is more important than
quality, heat treating may not be as good as another brand.

On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 23:55:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

snip

Is there a minimum standard for HSS? Reason I ask is some say their
bits are, yet there is a huge difference in quality.


Not sure if there is a standard, but when cost is more important than
quality, heat treating may not be as good as another brand.

This last comment reminded me of 8th grade metal shop when we made our
own chisels. The point was to pound out the 3/8" Hex cold rolled
steel, flatten it on both sides equally, file it, then heat treat it
by open flame and sand and oil for tempering. I forgot which came
first, oil or sand, but watching the heat travel up the shaft with all
its colors was intriguing, especially the blue. Then we had to shape
and sharpen the bit, and finally cut something in half. I've forgotten
what.

I'll never forget the look on some of the kids faces when their chisel
tip shaped itself to the object we were to cut off, knowing my time
was coming, and fearful that my chisel would meet the same fate. Well,
my chisel passed with flying colors and you couldn't even tell when
looking at the edge that it had cut anything. I don't even remember
what the grade was on it, but I was very happy, and couldn't wait to
show my Dad. I'd swear that even today it is the best chisel I ever
had, and as yet I have never had to re sharpen it. But I really don't
like to use it unless it cannot be helped since a small chisel is
sometimes the only tool for the job.

I have found that on Craftsman Chisels you pretty much have to flatten
the tips, then regrind the tip to get to the hardened material, and
that was over 30 years ago. Like some of the drill bits people have
mentioned here, good ones seem to last forever.

And like you said, re sharpening any tool is almost a given due to
mass production standards.

OFWW wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 23:55:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

snip
Is there a minimum standard for HSS? Reason I ask is some say their
bits are, yet there is a huge difference in quality.

Not sure if there is a standard, but when cost is more important than
quality, heat treating may not be as good as another brand.
This last comment reminded me of 8th grade metal shop when we made our
own chisels. The point was to pound out the 3/8" Hex cold rolled
steel, flatten it on both sides equally, file it, then heat treat it
by open flame and sand and oil for tempering. I forgot which came
first, oil or sand,

Sand is obviously for slower cooling, for removing some of the
brittleness of your hardened edge.
We made a center punch and a screw driver (among other things) in my 8th
grade class.

Bill




but watching the heat travel up the shaft with all
its colors was intriguing, especially the blue. Then we had to shape
and sharpen the bit, and finally cut something in half. I've forgotten
what.

I'll never forget the look on some of the kids faces when their chisel
tip shaped itself to the object we were to cut off, knowing my time
was coming, and fearful that my chisel would meet the same fate. Well,
my chisel passed with flying colors and you couldn't even tell when
looking at the edge that it had cut anything. I don't even remember
what the grade was on it, but I was very happy, and couldn't wait to
show my Dad. I'd swear that even today it is the best chisel I ever
had, and as yet I have never had to re sharpen it. But I really don't
like to use it unless it cannot be helped since a small chisel is
sometimes the only tool for the job.

I have found that on Craftsman Chisels you pretty much have to flatten
the tips, then regrind the tip to get to the hardened material, and
that was over 30 years ago. Like some of the drill bits people have
mentioned here, good ones seem to last forever.

And like you said, re sharpening any tool is almost a given due to
mass production standards.

Ed Pawlowski wrote in news:mNudnSl4CLA1gInFnZ2dnUU7-
:

Many tools from the factory are mediocre mass produced sharpened. If
you are good at sharpening you can usually do better.

You know those cheap drill bits? They actually cut pretty well ONCE
SHARPENED. One of the differences between the good DeWalt bits and the
"Free after rebate" bits was that the Dewalt bits were sharpened properly.

I was surprised and happy to see how well they cut out of the box. A
properly sharp drill bit will cut quite fast through wood.

Puckdropper

On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 23:55:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/28/2016 8:27 PM, OFWW wrote:

I truly didn't know that. I have had a lot of HSS bits, destroyed some
on jobs and had no spares, but always seemed I could cut or grind off
that bad parts and then sharpen them and they almost always seemed to
be better than when I first got them. Never understood why, but what
very glad when it happened.

Many tools from the factory are mediocre mass produced sharpened. If
you are good at sharpening you can usually do better.

Lie Neilsen tells you that their chisels are flattened and sharpened
to #400 grit and recommends further sharpening and polishing.


Is there a minimum standard for HSS? Reason I ask is some say their
bits are, yet there is a huge difference in quality.


Not sure if there is a standard, but when cost is more important than
quality, heat treating may not be as good as another brand.

On Sat, 29 Oct 2016 01:26:10 -0400, Bill
wrote:

OFWW wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 23:55:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

snip
Is there a minimum standard for HSS? Reason I ask is some say their
bits are, yet there is a huge difference in quality.

Not sure if there is a standard, but when cost is more important than
quality, heat treating may not be as good as another brand.
This last comment reminded me of 8th grade metal shop when we made our
own chisels. The point was to pound out the 3/8" Hex cold rolled
steel, flatten it on both sides equally, file it, then heat treat it
by open flame and sand and oil for tempering. I forgot which came
first, oil or sand,

Sand is obviously for slower cooling, for removing some of the
brittleness of your hardened edge.
We made a center punch and a screw driver (among other things) in my 8th
grade class.

Bill


Come to think of it so did we. I remember turning the knurl on the
center punch on the metal lathe. Thought it was so cool, and then just
to operate the lathe, what a trip.

Thanks for the memories.



but watching the heat travel up the shaft with all
its colors was intriguing, especially the blue. Then we had to shape
and sharpen the bit, and finally cut something in half. I've forgotten
what.

I'll never forget the look on some of the kids faces when their chisel
tip shaped itself to the object we were to cut off, knowing my time
was coming, and fearful that my chisel would meet the same fate. Well,
my chisel passed with flying colors and you couldn't even tell when
looking at the edge that it had cut anything. I don't even remember
what the grade was on it, but I was very happy, and couldn't wait to
show my Dad. I'd swear that even today it is the best chisel I ever
had, and as yet I have never had to re sharpen it. But I really don't
like to use it unless it cannot be helped since a small chisel is
sometimes the only tool for the job.

I have found that on Craftsman Chisels you pretty much have to flatten
the tips, then regrind the tip to get to the hardened material, and
that was over 30 years ago. Like some of the drill bits people have
mentioned here, good ones seem to last forever.

And like you said, re sharpening any tool is almost a given due to
mass production standards.

OFWW wrote:
brand.
This last comment reminded me of 8th grade metal shop when we made our
own chisels. The point was to pound out the 3/8" Hex cold rolled
steel, flatten it on both sides equally, file it, then heat treat it
by open flame and sand and oil for tempering. I forgot which came
first, oil or sand,
Sand is obviously for slower cooling, for removing some of the
brittleness of your hardened edge.
We made a center punch and a screw driver (among other things) in my 8th
grade class.

Bill

Come to think of it so did we. I remember turning the knurl on the
center punch on the metal lathe. Thought it was so cool, and then just
to operate the lathe, what a trip.

Thanks for the memories.

Likewise! :-)

On 10/29/2016 6:49 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote in news:mNudnSl4CLA1gInFnZ2dnUU7-
:

Many tools from the factory are mediocre mass produced sharpened. If
you are good at sharpening you can usually do better.

You know those cheap drill bits? They actually cut pretty well ONCE
SHARPENED. One of the differences between the good DeWalt bits and the
"Free after rebate" bits was that the Dewalt bits were sharpened properly.

I was surprised and happy to see how well they cut out of the box. A
properly sharp drill bit will cut quite fast through wood.

Puckdropper


And metal too.


--
Jeff

woodchucker wrote in
:

On 10/29/2016 6:49 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

*trim*


I was surprised and happy to see how well they cut out of the box. A
properly sharp drill bit will cut quite fast through wood.

Puckdropper


And metal too.


A little lube really helps with metal.

Puckdropper