I delivered my headboard job yesterday morning and I begin my
entertainment center job for the next customer. It is made up of 4 more
of my front and back face frame style cabinets. IIRC this will make 33
cabinets built this way in the last 32 months. As we all know cabinets
typically have lots and lots of shelves and that many times over for the
shelf pin holes. One job alone had in excess of 650 shelf pin holes.
So I am sick and tired of the monotony of drilling those damn holes.

Many years ago I bought a jig for drilling these holes long before
Rockler called itself Rockler,,,,, from Rockler. This jig was a clear
plastic plate with spaced indexing holes for a Vix style drill bit.
This thing worked great for many many years. With age the plastic began
to crack and I was fearful that it would disintegrate in the middle of a
job. Additionally with it's spring loaded bit each plunge to drill a
hole required a bit more effort than simply drilling the hole. I wanted
to go to a jig that simply used a standard non spring loaded bit.

My next jig was the Kreg shelf pin hole jig. I have drilled countless
holes with this tool too but it really is not built for production. The
jig allows you to drill about 6 holes and then you have re-index and
drill 5 more, repeat, repeat, repeat..... I spent as much time
repositioning the jig as drilling the holes. I did however like the
standard non spring loaded drill bit. FWIW you can gang the Kreg jigs
together for a longer run of holes however that arrangement is not ready
for prime time. The attachment pieces that join the jigs cause the jigs
to not sit flat on the panel so you absolutely have to clamp the jig
flat to the surface for proper spacing perpendicular to the surface,
adding more time.

A couple of days ago I contacted Precision Casewerk to get some
particulars on their True Position Drill Guide. I might add here that
the line boring feature for the shelf pins was not why I was looking at
this jig. With cabinets come a ton of drawers and doors. I let my
customer pick their pulls and these things come in a wide variety of
sizes. There are simple jigs for drilling these attachment holes but
again I am tired of making them and making them work. My last kitchen
cabinet job with, customer supplied, pulls almost turned into a disaster.
I quickly measured the pulls as 4" and they were actually 96mm. I used
the 4" holes on my cheapo jig and the holes were wrong....;~)
Fortunately the handles had large enough bases to allow me to enlarge
the holes enough to work. I decided at that moment I was going to get a
better jig.


The True Position Drill guide is pretty much infinitely adjustable for
most any sized two screw pull. The jig allows you to repeatedly index
these holes with great accuracy. You can actually attach the pulls to
the jig and then lock the drill guides to the location you want, remove
the pull and begin drilling. Any way this jig uses standard 5mm drill
bits. And yes the shelf pin holes will be the increasingly common 5mm
variety too. Talking directly with the manufacturer I was assured 5mm
shelf pins would be plenty strong unless you were to set an anvil on the
pin. They are basically 3/64" smaller than 1/4". The bonus feature to
the jig is that you can attach two line boring plates and drill 24 holes
32mm apart with out having to move the jig, that is about 30".

Any way in true Leon fashion the jig is priced similar to Festool.
The main jig generally sells for $169 and up. Adding the line boring
plates normally adds about $110 to that figure so I was looking at $270
plus shipping. A big chunk of change, but hopefully it will be worth
it's cost in time savings and certainly in lowering the frustration level.

Fortunately I thought to check my local cabinet hardware store,
Cornerstone Hardware in Houston. Their price for the above mentioned
jig and add on line boring plates was $239. I ended up with the TP-1935
kit.

http://www.precisioncasewerk.com/products.html

I'll post a review as I proceed with this job.

On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:06:52 -0500, Leon wrote:

My next jig was the Kreg shelf pin hole jig. I have drilled countless
holes with this tool too but it really is not built for production. The
jig allows you to drill about 6 holes and then you have re-index and
drill 5 more, repeat, repeat, repeat..... I spent as much time
repositioning the jig as drilling the holes. I did however like the
standard non spring loaded drill bit.

I just did 784 holes for some bookcases using the Kreg. Agreed, the
repositioning is a pain, but I was happy that none of the 28 shelves
rocked at all. Maybe disbelief is a better word than happy :-).

On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:06:52 -0500, Leon wrote:

Talking directly with the manufacturer I was assured 5mm shelf pins
would be plenty strong unless you were to set an anvil on the pin.

Yes, but the hole you put the pin in man not be as strong. With the
common 1/4" "cylinder with a flat on it" shelf pin, I've had a few pins
tear out the plywood when I used the shelf to help me up from a kneeling
position. Can't think I put more than a third of my weight on them.

Now I use the L-shaped ones. They spread the weight better and I haven't
had a problem yet. See:

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/200...helf-supports-
bracket-style-brass-14-25-pack.aspx

Note that I'm a hobbyist, not a professional, so my record of use is
relatively small. Someone who uses them every day in their job might
have more info.

On 8/30/2014 6:43 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:06:52 -0500, Leon wrote:

My next jig was the Kreg shelf pin hole jig. I have drilled countless
holes with this tool too but it really is not built for production. The
jig allows you to drill about 6 holes and then you have re-index and
drill 5 more, repeat, repeat, repeat..... I spent as much time
repositioning the jig as drilling the holes. I did however like the
standard non spring loaded drill bit.

I just did 784 holes for some bookcases using the Kreg. Agreed, the
repositioning is a pain, but I was happy that none of the 28 shelves
rocked at all. Maybe disbelief is a better word than happy :-).



LOL. And even with perfect hole placement, you have to also factor in
the possibility of the shelf not being perfectly flat and or the shelf
pins not being perfectly square. I can't tell you how many times
replacing a shelf pin solved a rocking shelf. ;~)

On 8/30/2014 6:51 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:06:52 -0500, Leon wrote:

Talking directly with the manufacturer I was assured 5mm shelf pins
would be plenty strong unless you were to set an anvil on the pin.

Yes, but the hole you put the pin in man not be as strong. With the
common 1/4" "cylinder with a flat on it" shelf pin, I've had a few pins
tear out the plywood when I used the shelf to help me up from a kneeling
position. Can't think I put more than a third of my weight on them.

Now I use the L-shaped ones. They spread the weight better and I haven't
had a problem yet. See:

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/200...helf-supports-
bracket-style-brass-14-25-pack.aspx

Note that I'm a hobbyist, not a professional, so my record of use is
relatively small. Someone who uses them every day in their job might
have more info.



Yes those are the only type of shelf pins I use, they basically lock in
place and can't fall out. I buy them in 100 packs.

On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:06:52 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.precisioncasewerk.com/products.html
I'll post a review as I proceed with this job.

I considered buying Woodpecker's hole jig, but it's not nearly in the
class of the Precision Casewerk hole tool.

http://www.woodpeck.com/shelfpintemplate.html

On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 22:26:09 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
Yes those are the only type of shelf pins I use, they basically lock in
place and can't fall out. I buy them in 100 packs.

I use the same shelf pins with one particular difference. They have
the capability of really being locked in place with the addition of a
screw.

http://www.outdoorcraftsmansupply.co...s14nickel.aspx

wrote:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:06:52 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.precisioncasewerk.com/products.html
I'll post a review as I proceed with this job.

I considered buying Woodpecker's hole jig, but it's not nearly in the
class of the Precision Casewerk hole tool.

http://www.woodpeck.com/shelfpintemplate.html

If you are still looking, the Rockler JIG IT® Shelving Jig w/Self-Centering
Bit works really well. I just wanted something that would do more. As I
mentioned I was originally looking for a jig for drilling holes accurately
and quickly for drawer and door pulls. The line boring accessory was a
nice plus...

On 8/31/14, 7:53 AM, Leon wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:06:52 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.precisioncasewerk.com/products.html
I'll post a review as I proceed with this job.

I considered buying Woodpecker's hole jig, but it's not nearly in the
class of the Precision Casewerk hole tool.

http://www.woodpeck.com/shelfpintemplate.html

If you are still looking, the Rockler JIG IT® Shelving Jig w/Self-Centering
Bit works really well. I just wanted something that would do more. As I
mentioned I was originally looking for a jig for drilling holes accurately
and quickly for drawer and door pulls. The line boring accessory was a
nice plus...


For those warped shelves....
http://www.spiralsupports.com

I use these exclusively, now.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:


For those warped shelves....
http://www.spiralsupports.com

I use these exclusively, now.

Weird - I clicked on the play button at least 5 times and each time the
video started to play then immediately terminated and went back to the
previous screen. Technology...

--

-Mike-

On 8/31/2014 11:23 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 8/31/14, 7:53 AM, Leon wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:06:52 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.precisioncasewerk.com/products.html
I'll post a review as I proceed with this job.

I considered buying Woodpecker's hole jig, but it's not nearly in the
class of the Precision Casewerk hole tool.

http://www.woodpeck.com/shelfpintemplate.html

If you are still looking, the Rockler JIG IT® Shelving Jig
w/Self-Centering
Bit works really well. I just wanted something that would do more.
As I
mentioned I was originally looking for a jig for drilling holes
accurately
and quickly for drawer and door pulls. The line boring accessory was a
nice plus...


For those warped shelves....
http://www.spiralsupports.com

I use these exclusively, now.


Those look cool but I have had issues with 1/4" plastic supports in the
past, I would imagine that might be more of a problem with the 5mm pins.
I find that if I just bend the "L" shaped supports mentioned above you
can cure a warped shelf problem.

On 8/31/2014 12:00 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:


For those warped shelves....
http://www.spiralsupports.com

I use these exclusively, now.

Weird - I clicked on the play button at least 5 times and each time the
video started to play then immediately terminated and went back to the
previous screen. Technology...



No issue here.

On Sun, 31 Aug 2014 12:14:08 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 8/31/2014 12:00 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:


For those warped shelves....
http://www.spiralsupports.com

I use these exclusively, now.

Weird - I clicked on the play button at least 5 times and each time the
video started to play then immediately terminated and went back to the
previous screen. Technology...



No issue here.

Took three or four tries here.

On 8/31/14, 12:13 PM, Leon wrote:
On 8/31/2014 11:23 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 8/31/14, 7:53 AM, Leon wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:06:52 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.precisioncasewerk.com/products.html
I'll post a review as I proceed with this job.

I considered buying Woodpecker's hole jig, but it's not nearly in the
class of the Precision Casewerk hole tool.

http://www.woodpeck.com/shelfpintemplate.html

If you are still looking, the Rockler JIG IT® Shelving Jig
w/Self-Centering
Bit works really well. I just wanted something that would do more.
As I
mentioned I was originally looking for a jig for drilling holes
accurately
and quickly for drawer and door pulls. The line boring accessory was a
nice plus...


For those warped shelves....
http://www.spiralsupports.com

I use these exclusively, now.


Those look cool but I have had issues with 1/4" plastic supports in the
past, I would imagine that might be more of a problem with the 5mm pins.
I find that if I just bend the "L" shaped supports mentioned above you
can cure a warped shelf problem.


That's a great technique. I'll keep that in mind for people who don't
like plastic.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/31/2014 12:58 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:06:52 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.precisioncasewerk.com/products.html
I'll post a review as I proceed with this job.

I considered buying Woodpecker's hole jig, but it's not nearly in the
class of the Precision Casewerk hole tool.

http://www.woodpeck.com/shelfpintemplate.html


I made my own, similar, out of tempered masonite. I use a plunge router.

Max

On Sun, 31 Aug 2014 16:27:20 -0600, MaxD wrote:
I considered buying Woodpecker's hole jig, but it's not nearly in the
class of the Precision Casewerk hole tool.
http://www.woodpeck.com/shelfpintemplate.html

I made my own, similar, out of tempered masonite. I use a plunge router.

Sure you can make your own, but I found a long time ago that it can be
a great detriment to being able to make something for yourself. The
time you can waste doing that can be immense. And, all it takes is one
little screw up while making some jig to add to the time wasted.

You have to pick your battles (building stuff for yourself) very
carefully.

On 8/31/2014 5:47 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2014 16:27:20 -0600, MaxD wrote:
I considered buying Woodpecker's hole jig, but it's not nearly in the
class of the Precision Casewerk hole tool.
http://www.woodpeck.com/shelfpintemplate.html

I made my own, similar, out of tempered masonite. I use a plunge router.

Sure you can make your own, but I found a long time ago that it can be
a great detriment to being able to make something for yourself. The
time you can waste doing that can be immense. And, all it takes is one
little screw up while making some jig to add to the time wasted.

You have to pick your battles (building stuff for yourself) very
carefully.


I would think that building the jig accurately would not be as much of a
problem as lifting a router with each hole and pushing down against the
spring in the router hundreds of times. Then there is the matter of
adding holes to an already built cabinet.

On 8/31/2014 4:47 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2014 16:27:20 -0600, MaxD wrote:
I considered buying Woodpecker's hole jig, but it's not nearly in the
class of the Precision Casewerk hole tool.
http://www.woodpeck.com/shelfpintemplate.html

I made my own, similar, out of tempered masonite. I use a plunge router.

Sure you can make your own, but I found a long time ago that it can be
a great detriment to being able to make something for yourself. The
time you can waste doing that can be immense. And, all it takes is one
little screw up while making some jig to add to the time wasted.

You have to pick your battles (building stuff for yourself) very
carefully.


Although I do a project for profit from time to time my woodworking is
mostly a hobby so I very seldom consider the construction of a jig as a
waste of time.
If I ran a business I would consider the purchase of a time saving
device a wise investment.

On Mon, 01 Sep 2014 18:03:04 -0600, MaxD wrote:
Although I do a project for profit from time to time my woodworking is
mostly a hobby so I very seldom consider the construction of a jig as a
waste of time.

I wasn't suggesting that building a jig was a waste of time, just that
in some cases, for me anyway, building some jigs doesn't give me any
enjoyment. If you're getting enjoyment from the project you're buiding
*and* any jigs you build for that project then I'm all for that.

"Leon" wrote in message
...

wrote:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:06:52 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.precisioncasewerk.com/products.html
I'll post a review as I proceed with this job.

I considered buying Woodpecker's hole jig, but it's not nearly in the
class of the Precision Casewerk hole tool.

http://www.woodpeck.com/shelfpintemplate.html

If you are still looking, the Rockler JIG IT® Shelving Jig w/Self-Centering
Bit works really well. I just wanted something that would do more. As I
mentioned I was originally looking for a jig for drilling holes accurately
and quickly for drawer and door pulls. The line boring accessory was a
nice plus...

I had a project a few years ago that required almost 1000 shelf pins. I
started using the Rockler Jig and self centering bit. After an hour of
drilling holes with the self centering bit I switched to a plunge router.
The 3/8" base plate bushing for a PC 690 fits perfectly into the jig holes.
I ground the end of the bushing down so that it did not bottom out in the
jig, installed a 1/4" bit and finished the job in a quarter of the time it
would have taken me with the drill bit..

"FTG" wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message
...

wrote:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:06:52 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.precisioncasewerk.com/products.html
I'll post a review as I proceed with this job.

I considered buying Woodpecker's hole jig, but it's not nearly in the
class of the Precision Casewerk hole tool.

http://www.woodpeck.com/shelfpintemplate.html

If you are still looking, the Rockler JIG IT® Shelving Jig w/Self-Centering
Bit works really well. I just wanted something that would do more. As I
mentioned I was originally looking for a jig for drilling holes accurately
and quickly for drawer and door pulls. The line boring accessory was a
nice plus...

I had a project a few years ago that required almost 1000 shelf pins. I
started using the Rockler Jig and self centering bit. After an hour of
drilling holes with the self centering bit I switched to a plunge router.
The 3/8" base plate bushing for a PC 690 fits perfectly into the jig
holes. I ground the end of the bushing down so that it did not bottom out
in the jig, installed a 1/4" bit and finished the job in a quarter of the
time it would have taken me with the drill bit..

I find that extremely hard to believe. I have seen most all woodworking
shows use a plunge router for this purpose but they seldom continue to do
so. I would think that lifting a tool that is twice as heavy would be
slower. I really don't see any advantage that would make the router faster.
Can you explain where the time savings comes in?

wrote:
On Mon, 01 Sep 2014 18:03:04 -0600, MaxD wrote:
Although I do a project for profit from time to time my woodworking is
mostly a hobby so I very seldom consider the construction of a jig as a
waste of time.

I wasn't suggesting that building a jig was a waste of time, just that
in some cases, for me anyway, building some jigs doesn't give me any
enjoyment. If you're getting enjoyment from the project you're buiding
*and* any jigs you build for that project then I'm all for that.

And there is the case where there are times that there is no tool and a jig
is necessary. The face frames that Swingman and I build have dado's and
groves to accept the cabinet panels. Every face frame has incomplete dados
where they intersect. I came up with a jig for completing those dados
quickly and accurately.

On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 02:50:28 -0400, "FTG" wrote:
I ground the end of the bushing down so that it did not bottom out in the
jig, installed a 1/4" bit and finished the job in a quarter of the time it
would have taken me with the drill bit..

Wouldn't the router be heavier and more awkward to lift between jig
holes? But then, I'd also expect that the router would make cleaner
pin holes.

On 9/2/14, 8:26 AM, Leon wrote:
"FTG" wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message
...



wrote:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:06:52 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.precisioncasewerk.com/products.html I'll post a
review as I proceed with this job.

I considered buying Woodpecker's hole jig, but it's not nearly in
the class of the Precision Casewerk hole tool.

http://www.woodpeck.com/shelfpintemplate.html

If you are still looking, the Rockler JIG IT® Shelving Jig
w/Self-Centering Bit works really well. I just wanted something
that would do more. As I mentioned I was originally looking for a
jig for drilling holes accurately and quickly for drawer and door
pulls. The line boring accessory was a nice plus...

I had a project a few years ago that required almost 1000 shelf
pins. I started using the Rockler Jig and self centering bit.
After an hour of drilling holes with the self centering bit I
switched to a plunge router. The 3/8" base plate bushing for a PC
690 fits perfectly into the jig holes. I ground the end of the
bushing down so that it did not bottom out in the jig, installed a
1/4" bit and finished the job in a quarter of the time it would
have taken me with the drill bit..

I find that extremely hard to believe. I have seen most all
woodworking shows use a plunge router for this purpose but they
seldom continue to do so. I would think that lifting a tool that is
twice as heavy would be slower. I really don't see any advantage that
would make the router faster. Can you explain where the time savings
comes in?


I have yet to find one of those shelf-pin bits with the spring mechanism
and centering bushing that didn't clog and have to be fiddled with to
unclog every few holes. I spend more time unclogging the bit than
drilling holes, so a router would save time in that instance.

However, as you stated, using a router to drill a 1/4" hole is kind of
like using a 16' extension ladder to reach the top of the fridge. Since
I usually drill my shelf pin holes after assembly, the router would be
the worst option. If I were drilling 1000 pin holes and had all the
case sides lined up on benches with jigs clamped up, ready to go in a
production scenario, then the router would be the way to go.

The time savings is all these situations always comes into play *after*
any jigs are already set up and clamped up and ready for boring. The
beauty of the Rockler/Woodcraft/Bench Dog shelf pin jigs is there is
next to no set up required out of the box.

I can grab my Woodcraft pin jig from the toolbox drawer and take it to a
bookcase without a tape measure or clamp or pencil and start drilling
perfectly spaced holes. Jig in one hand, drill in the other and ready
to go.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/1/2014 7:03 PM, MaxD wrote:
On 8/31/2014 4:47 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2014 16:27:20 -0600, MaxD wrote:
I considered buying Woodpecker's hole jig, but it's not nearly in the
class of the Precision Casewerk hole tool.
http://www.woodpeck.com/shelfpintemplate.html

I made my own, similar, out of tempered masonite. I use a plunge router.

Sure you can make your own, but I found a long time ago that it can be
a great detriment to being able to make something for yourself. The
time you can waste doing that can be immense. And, all it takes is one
little screw up while making some jig to add to the time wasted.

You have to pick your battles (building stuff for yourself) very
carefully.


Although I do a project for profit from time to time my woodworking is
mostly a hobby so I very seldom consider the construction of a jig as a
waste of time.
If I ran a business I would consider the purchase of a time saving
device a wise investment.


Exactly! And why Festool makes a lot of sense for some of us and not so
much sense for others.

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"FTG" wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message
...

wrote:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:06:52 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.precisioncasewerk.com/products.html
I'll post a review as I proceed with this job.

I considered buying Woodpecker's hole jig, but it's not nearly in the
class of the Precision Casewerk hole tool.

http://www.woodpeck.com/shelfpintemplate.html

If you are still looking, the Rockler JIG IT® Shelving Jig
w/Self-Centering
Bit works really well. I just wanted something that would do more. As
I
mentioned I was originally looking for a jig for drilling holes accurately
and quickly for drawer and door pulls. The line boring accessory was a
nice plus...

I had a project a few years ago that required almost 1000 shelf pins. I
started using the Rockler Jig and self centering bit. After an hour of
drilling holes with the self centering bit I switched to a plunge router.
The 3/8" base plate bushing for a PC 690 fits perfectly into the jig
holes. I ground the end of the bushing down so that it did not bottom out
in the jig, installed a 1/4" bit and finished the job in a quarter of the
time it would have taken me with the drill bit..

I find that extremely hard to believe. I have seen most all woodworking
shows use a plunge router for this purpose but they seldom continue to do
so. I would think that lifting a tool that is twice as heavy would be
slower. I really don't see any advantage that would make the router faster.
Can you explain where the time savings comes in?

No problem with router weight. I was able to stand over the work and lift
the router with two hands. Not heavy at all. I had the 8' long plywood
sides laid out on the work bench and was able to rout the holes down one
edge, flip the sheet end to end and go down the back side. Using the self
centering drill bit was a mess. It would clog up every couple of holes, and
some the holes it cut were not perpendicular to the side of the sheet.
Using the router corrected all problems. Maybe not the way I would do the
job if I were drilling ten or twelve pin holes, but it worked very well with
no fatigue for many hundreds of them.

On 9/2/2014 9:15 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 9/2/14, 8:26 AM, Leon wrote:
"FTG" wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message
...



wrote:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:06:52 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.precisioncasewerk.com/products.html I'll post a
review as I proceed with this job.

I considered buying Woodpecker's hole jig, but it's not nearly in
the class of the Precision Casewerk hole tool.

http://www.woodpeck.com/shelfpintemplate.html

If you are still looking, the Rockler JIG IT® Shelving Jig
w/Self-Centering Bit works really well. I just wanted something
that would do more. As I mentioned I was originally looking for a
jig for drilling holes accurately and quickly for drawer and door
pulls. The line boring accessory was a nice plus...

I had a project a few years ago that required almost 1000 shelf
pins. I started using the Rockler Jig and self centering bit.
After an hour of drilling holes with the self centering bit I
switched to a plunge router. The 3/8" base plate bushing for a PC
690 fits perfectly into the jig holes. I ground the end of the
bushing down so that it did not bottom out in the jig, installed a
1/4" bit and finished the job in a quarter of the time it would
have taken me with the drill bit..

I find that extremely hard to believe. I have seen most all
woodworking shows use a plunge router for this purpose but they
seldom continue to do so. I would think that lifting a tool that is
twice as heavy would be slower. I really don't see any advantage that
would make the router faster. Can you explain where the time savings
comes in?


I have yet to find one of those shelf-pin bits with the spring mechanism
and centering bushing that didn't clog and have to be fiddled with to
unclog every few holes. I spend more time unclogging the bit than
drilling holes, so a router would save time in that instance.

There is that but I always used a fast speed so that the clogging was
not an issue of consideration for me. Now with a smaller 5mm bit that
might become more of an issue. I know that the smaller Vix bits that I
use do clog more the smaller I go.




However, as you stated, using a router to drill a 1/4" hole is kind of
like using a 16' extension ladder to reach the top of the fridge. Since
I usually drill my shelf pin holes after assembly, the router would be
the worst option. If I were drilling 1000 pin holes and had all the
case sides lined up on benches with jigs clamped up, ready to go in a
production scenario, then the router would be the way to go.

Perhaps the advantage is being able to leave the router running and not
waiting for the bit to spin compared to using a corded drill with out a
brake. The Rockler bit was a brad point so there was little issue with
tear out and that bit worked for countless years, well 20+ with out
having to replace or resharpen the bit. When drilling hundreds of holes
my biggest issue is a short jig that has to be repositioned often, the
weight of the machine that I am having to reposition with every hole and
the spring resistance that I have to over come. The Kreg jig with its
hardened steel guides and standard brad point bit was a big improvement
over the spring loaded bit. The problem with the Kreg was 4~5 holes at
a time before repositioning. I simply can't imagine myself picking up a
router, repositioning, and pushing against plunge springs hundreds of
times. And that only works if there are no obstacles.




The time savings is all these situations always comes into play *after*
any jigs are already set up and clamped up and ready for boring. The
beauty of the Rockler/Woodcraft/Bench Dog shelf pin jigs is there is
next to no set up required out of the box.

I can grab my Woodcraft pin jig from the toolbox drawer and take it to a
bookcase without a tape measure or clamp or pencil and start drilling
perfectly spaced holes. Jig in one hand, drill in the other and ready
to go.

Basically the same with the True position drill guide. You can use each
12 hole plate alone or paired with the guide. With the guide you slip
the plates on the guide until they stop and tighten 2 thumb screws on
each side and you are ready to go for 24 holes.

Jeez I remember doing them with a drill press way back when. LOL

On 9/2/2014 11:11 AM, FTG wrote:


"Leon" wrote in message
...

"FTG" wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message
...

wrote:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:06:52 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.precisioncasewerk.com/products.html
I'll post a review as I proceed with this job.

I considered buying Woodpecker's hole jig, but it's not nearly in the
class of the Precision Casewerk hole tool.

http://www.woodpeck.com/shelfpintemplate.html

If you are still looking, the Rockler JIG IT® Shelving Jig
w/Self-Centering
Bit works really well. I just wanted something that would do more.
As I
mentioned I was originally looking for a jig for drilling holes
accurately
and quickly for drawer and door pulls. The line boring accessory was a
nice plus...

I had a project a few years ago that required almost 1000 shelf pins. I
started using the Rockler Jig and self centering bit. After an hour of
drilling holes with the self centering bit I switched to a plunge router.
The 3/8" base plate bushing for a PC 690 fits perfectly into the jig
holes. I ground the end of the bushing down so that it did not bottom out
in the jig, installed a 1/4" bit and finished the job in a quarter of the
time it would have taken me with the drill bit..

I find that extremely hard to believe. I have seen most all woodworking
shows use a plunge router for this purpose but they seldom continue to do
so. I would think that lifting a tool that is twice as heavy would be
slower. I really don't see any advantage that would make the router faster.
Can you explain where the time savings comes in?

No problem with router weight. I was able to stand over the work and
lift the router with two hands. Not heavy at all. I had the 8' long
plywood sides laid out on the work bench and was able to rout the holes
down one edge, flip the sheet end to end and go down the back side.
Using the self centering drill bit was a mess. It would clog up every
couple of holes, and some the holes it cut were not perpendicular to the
side of the sheet. Using the router corrected all problems. Maybe not
the way I would do the job if I were drilling ten or twelve pin holes,
but it worked very well with no fatigue for many hundreds of them.

I'll take your word for it. My situation however is that my mating
panels are not often positioned the same, meaning that the location of
an outer panel where it meets the bottom of the cabinet is not the same
as where an inner panel bottom is situated. I typically register from
the bottom of the cabinet after assembly. My inner panels are dadoed
into the cabinet bottom 1/4", so there is an offset to keep in mind. I
like to make it fool proof so drilling after assembly takes all math out
of the process. ;~)

On 9/2/14, 11:21 AM, Leon wrote:

Jeez I remember doing them with a drill press way back when. LOL


Me, too! That lasted about 15 minutes and I was like, "screw this!"


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/2/2014 5:21 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 9/2/14, 11:21 AM, Leon wrote:

Jeez I remember doing them with a drill press way back when. LOL


Me, too! That lasted about 15 minutes and I was like, "screw this!"




I was too new into woodworking, 35+ years ago to realize that there
might be a jig....and there may not have been. LOL