[Michael Joel]

I have only tried to lacquer some metal once.

I first buffed the metal to polish it then wiped it down with
denatured alcohol to get any waxes/residue off. After the lacquer
(said it worked for metal) dried it was easy to get off. Any amount of
firm handling and it would start scratching right off.

Anyone used any lacquer to preserve a polished metal?

Mike

[-MIKE-]

On 2/21/12 9:24 AM, Michael Joel wrote:
I have only tried to lacquer some metal once.

I first buffed the metal to polish it then wiped it down with
denatured alcohol to get any waxes/residue off. After the lacquer
(said it worked for metal) dried it was easy to get off. Any amount of
firm handling and it would start scratching right off.

Anyone used any lacquer to preserve a polished metal?

Mike

Cymbal companies use it as a protective coat.
It works great to keep cymbals from tarnishing from skin oils.

However, it does nothing to prevent oak rust. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[Steve Turner]

On 02/21/2012 09:24 AM, Michael Joel wrote:
I have only tried to lacquer some metal once.

I first buffed the metal to polish it then wiped it down with
denatured alcohol to get any waxes/residue off. After the lacquer
(said it worked for metal) dried it was easy to get off. Any amount of
firm handling and it would start scratching right off.

Anyone used any lacquer to preserve a polished metal?

Mike

Forget what you've done with lacquer in the woodworking realm; if you
want to put lacquer on metal and have it last you need to think in terms
of automotive painting processes. It kinda depends on what kind of
"metal" we're talking about here, but in general a good primer is a
must, preferable an "etching" primer that (as I understand it) has some
amount of acid content gives it very strong adherence to the metal. And
these days there are far better paints available for metal than just
"lacquer" (presumably we're talking about good ol' nitrocellulose
lacquer here). Maybe "nailshooter" Robert will chime in here, but
barring that the simplest thing you could do to address the problem
would be to go down to your local automotive supply store and see what
they have available in rattle cans. Any of that is bound to be better
than just straight lacquer over metal.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

[Mike Marlow[_2_]]

Michael Joel wrote:
I have only tried to lacquer some metal once.

I first buffed the metal to polish it then wiped it down with
denatured alcohol to get any waxes/residue off. After the lacquer
(said it worked for metal) dried it was easy to get off. Any amount of
firm handling and it would start scratching right off.

Anyone used any lacquer to preserve a polished metal?


Oh - where to start... Ok - you read the instructions and you interpreted
them in a reasonable way, given a limited understanding. If you had read or
researched further, you would have easily seen that a good primer (and maybe
even an etching primer) were required to get a good bond. But... stop to
think - hundreds of thousands of cars have been painted with lacquer. If
they worked and your technique failed, where do you think the problem lies?

I will guarantee you that if you had read the instructions for your lacquer,
you would have found it is not a DTM (Direct To Metal application. I will
also guarantee you would have found that a highly polished surface is not
what you want to paint to. It does seem that you have not researched spray
painting at all, for you to have posted your experience. Not a problem -
it's things like this that help us learn, after all. Hell - if I had a
nickle for every damned mistake I ever made, I would be relaxing on a beach
in the Carribbean, sipping on drinks with umbrellas in them, and admiring my
wife in the sunshine. Alas...

Get your metal to a smooth, flat level (not polished!) and shoot a primer on
it. Flatten that primer with a 500 grit paper - unless you can shoot good
enough to shoot a nice level primer coat. THEN shoot your lacquer at it.
I'm a big advocate of shooting an etching primer on bare metal before
shooting a sandable primer at it - even if the primer is DTM. That may be
an "old habits die hard" statement.

You would have no such such problems as you have described, following this
technique.

--

-Mike-

[Steve Turner]

On 02/21/2012 09:59 AM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 02/21/2012 09:24 AM, Michael Joel wrote:
I have only tried to lacquer some metal once.

I first buffed the metal to polish it then wiped it down with
denatured alcohol to get any waxes/residue off. After the lacquer
(said it worked for metal) dried it was easy to get off. Any amount of
firm handling and it would start scratching right off.

Anyone used any lacquer to preserve a polished metal?

Mike

Forget what you've done with lacquer in the woodworking realm; if you
want to put lacquer on metal and have it last you need to think in terms
of automotive painting processes. It kinda depends on what kind of
"metal" we're talking about here, but in general a good primer is a
must, preferable an "etching" primer that (as I understand it) has some
amount of acid content gives it very strong adherence to the metal. And
these days there are far better paints available for metal than just
"lacquer" (presumably we're talking about good ol' nitrocellulose
lacquer here). Maybe "nailshooter" Robert will chime in here, but
barring that the simplest thing you could do to address the problem
would be to go down to your local automotive supply store and see what
they have available in rattle cans. Any of that is bound to be better
than just straight lacquer over metal.

Of course, I just realized you're probably talking about a clear coat
over metal, in which case most of what I just said is not really
applicable. :-) In this case, it probably is going to be pretty
dependant on what kind of metal you're going over. Aluminum, for
example, is notoriously difficult to get any kind of paint to stick to it.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

[Steve Turner]

On 02/21/2012 09:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/21/12 9:24 AM, Michael Joel wrote:
I have only tried to lacquer some metal once.

I first buffed the metal to polish it then wiped it down with
denatured alcohol to get any waxes/residue off. After the lacquer
(said it worked for metal) dried it was easy to get off. Any amount of
firm handling and it would start scratching right off.

Anyone used any lacquer to preserve a polished metal?

Mike

Cymbal companies use it as a protective coat.
It works great to keep cymbals from tarnishing from skin oils.

However, it does nothing to prevent oak rust. :-)

Clear lacquer works great over brass; they've been doing it for years on
brass instruments like trumpets and trombones. I don't know if the
cymbal companies use lacquer or something else (and of course, cymbals
are made of bronze, not brass), but it seems to work well in that
context too, at least until you've worn the coating off with repeated
thrashings. :-)

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

[-MIKE-]

On 2/21/12 10:23 AM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 02/21/2012 09:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/21/12 9:24 AM, Michael Joel wrote:
I have only tried to lacquer some metal once.

I first buffed the metal to polish it then wiped it down with
denatured alcohol to get any waxes/residue off. After the lacquer
(said it worked for metal) dried it was easy to get off. Any amount of
firm handling and it would start scratching right off.

Anyone used any lacquer to preserve a polished metal?

Mike

Cymbal companies use it as a protective coat.
It works great to keep cymbals from tarnishing from skin oils.

However, it does nothing to prevent oak rust. :-)

Clear lacquer works great over brass; they've been doing it for years on
brass instruments like trumpets and trombones. I don't know if the
cymbal companies use lacquer or something else (and of course, cymbals
are made of bronze, not brass), but it seems to work well in that
context too, at least until you've worn the coating off with repeated
thrashings. :-)


George did a lot of research on this when he owned his drum shop in Akron.
He was offering a cymbal polishing service and wanted to be able to
replace the coating the manufacturers put on. He spoke with the "Big 3"
and they all said they used lacquer. Of course, they was that term gets
thrown around by woodworkers, who knows if it's actually lacquer that
cymbal makers use. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[Swingman]

On 2/21/2012 10:23 AM, Steve Turner wrote:

Clear lacquer works great over brass; they've been doing it for years on
brass instruments like trumpets and trombones. I don't know if the
cymbal companies use lacquer or something else (and of course, cymbals
are made of bronze, not brass), but it seems to work well in that
context too, at least until you've worn the coating off with repeated
thrashings. :-)

I did this very thing once, exactly 49 years ago this summer, in
England, using what was sold over the counter at the time as "egg shell
varnish" (? I have no idea). I polished the brass and put on two coats
of same with a nail polish brush.

An 18th century French carriage clock, which thereafter sat on my
parents dresser for 47 of those 49 years without being touched, and
although the brass did tarnish, it has only done so in the last two of
those 49 years:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...22993203924674

This thread is of vital interest to me as my original intention was to
re-do it every fifty years ... one more year to go before the first
scheduled maintenance.

(for the curious: the rocks on top belong to one of our pups (a true
rockhound), and are part of her prized collection of rare jewel pebbles
which she collects on walks, carries back to the house in her mouth,
then drops on the kitchen floor next to the window ... apparently only
because she can't reach the sill).

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

[Bill[_31_]]

On 2/21/2012 11:43 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/21/2012 10:23 AM, Steve Turner wrote:

Clear lacquer works great over brass; they've been doing it for years on
brass instruments like trumpets and trombones. I don't know if the
cymbal companies use lacquer or something else (and of course, cymbals
are made of bronze, not brass), but it seems to work well in that
context too, at least until you've worn the coating off with repeated
thrashings. :-)

I did this very thing once, exactly 49 years ago this summer, in
England, using what was sold over the counter at the time as "egg shell
varnish" (? I have no idea). I polished the brass and put on two coats
of same with a nail polish brush.

An 18th century French carriage clock, which thereafter sat on my
parents dresser for 47 of those 49 years without being touched, and
although the brass did tarnish, it has only done so in the last two of
those 49 years:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...22993203924674


This thread is of vital interest to me as my original intention was to
re-do it every fifty years ... one more year to go before the first
scheduled maintenance.

(for the curious: the rocks on top belong to one of our pups (a true
rockhound), and are part of her prized collection of rare jewel pebbles
which she collects on walks, carries back to the house in her mouth,
then drops on the kitchen floor next to the window ... apparently only
because she can't reach the sill).

That's kind of like garage furniture, if you just buy it or it is given
it to you, it's just not the same! Some in my family have "hoarding"
tendencies too. I think she drops them on the kitchen floor for your
approval--maybe an "atta-girl" or something like that! : )

[Mike Marlow[_2_]]

Swingman wrote:


I did this very thing once, exactly 49 years ago this summer, in
England, using what was sold over the counter at the time as "egg
shell varnish" (? I have no idea). I polished the brass and put on
two coats of same with a nail polish brush.

An 18th century French carriage clock, which thereafter sat on my
parents dresser for 47 of those 49 years without being touched, and
although the brass did tarnish, it has only done so in the last two of
those 49 years:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...22993203924674

This thread is of vital interest to me as my original intention was to
re-do it every fifty years ... one more year to go before the first
scheduled maintenance.

(for the curious: the rocks on top belong to one of our pups (a true
rockhound), and are part of her prized collection of rare jewel
pebbles which she collects on walks, carries back to the house in her
mouth, then drops on the kitchen floor next to the window ...
apparently only because she can't reach the sill).

Despite my earlier post - I too have shot clears directly over a polished
brass. I have refinished bathroom fixtures, door handles, etc. I've done
it with both lacquer and with clear coat. Lacquer can be a bit more of a
pain because it will blush if the humidity is too high, whereas clear coat
will not. Clear coat tends to feel a bit more plastic like, but not an
awful lot.

I should have included in my earlier post that when doing this, it is
imperative to get the surface metal impecably clean. Adheasion is king.
I'm not sure, but it is possible that brass has a higher porousity than
steel, and that might explain why it is easier to clear over brass than over
steel. I'd have to look into that.

--

-Mike-

[Michael Joel]

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 11:01:22 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Michael Joel wrote:
I have only tried to lacquer some metal once.

I first buffed the metal to polish it then wiped it down with
denatured alcohol to get any waxes/residue off. After the lacquer
(said it worked for metal) dried it was easy to get off. Any amount of
firm handling and it would start scratching right off.

Anyone used any lacquer to preserve a polished metal?


Oh - where to start... Ok - you read the instructions and you interpreted
them in a reasonable way, given a limited understanding. If you had read or
researched further, you would have easily seen that a good primer (and maybe
even an etching primer) were required to get a good bond. But... stop to
think - hundreds of thousands of cars have been painted with lacquer. If
they worked and your technique failed, where do you think the problem lies?

I will guarantee you that if you had read the instructions for your lacquer,
you would have found it is not a DTM (Direct To Metal application. I will
also guarantee you would have found that a highly polished surface is not
what you want to paint to. It does seem that you have not researched spray
painting at all, for you to have posted your experience. Not a problem -
it's things like this that help us learn, after all. Hell - if I had a
nickle for every damned mistake I ever made, I would be relaxing on a beach
in the Carribbean, sipping on drinks with umbrellas in them, and admiring my
wife in the sunshine. Alas...

Get your metal to a smooth, flat level (not polished!) and shoot a primer on
it. Flatten that primer with a 500 grit paper - unless you can shoot good
enough to shoot a nice level primer coat. THEN shoot your lacquer at it.
I'm a big advocate of shooting an etching primer on bare metal before
shooting a sandable primer at it - even if the primer is DTM. That may be
an "old habits die hard" statement.

You would have no such such problems as you have described, following this
technique.


I am aware of the differences in auto lacquer. You are right in that I
should have taken the time to test it with an auto lacquer (acrylic).

Product I tried was simply a can of Minwax clear lacquer - claiming to
be a good metal finish. Directions have no mention of etching base or
any base (except a possible use of a sanding sealer - which of course
is n/a). It most likely would be a good metal finish - it the item is
to be placed out of reach and out of use.

The item being covered was a set of piano pedals and hinges. Pedals
are usually solid brass, nickel (plated), or cast iron with a plating
of brass or nickel. Hinges are usually solid brass.

Such items are usually polished and then lacquered to protect the
metal's polish. The desired end result is of course a highly polished
metal that does not tarnish quickly.


---- as a side topic ---

What are people's expectations of being able to protect items such as
piano pedals? Of course these get a good rubbing from shoes.

Acrylic Lacquer I do not believe will hold up long.
A conversion laqcuer seems more trouble than it is worth. Same for
other conversion finishes.

So - some form of a polly? Easy to apply - trouble is of course long
drying times - but this is usually ok since a small dust free area
should be easy to come by.

Also - these items generally lose their plating - pedals especially. I
have thought of trying to color them back by applying a colored finish
(I doubt most customers would be willing to pay the expense of true
replating). Opinions on this?

Thanks
Mike

[Steve Turner]

On 02/21/2012 10:29 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/21/12 10:23 AM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 02/21/2012 09:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/21/12 9:24 AM, Michael Joel wrote:
I have only tried to lacquer some metal once.

I first buffed the metal to polish it then wiped it down with
denatured alcohol to get any waxes/residue off. After the lacquer
(said it worked for metal) dried it was easy to get off. Any amount of
firm handling and it would start scratching right off.

Anyone used any lacquer to preserve a polished metal?

Mike

Cymbal companies use it as a protective coat.
It works great to keep cymbals from tarnishing from skin oils.

However, it does nothing to prevent oak rust. :-)

Clear lacquer works great over brass; they've been doing it for years on
brass instruments like trumpets and trombones. I don't know if the
cymbal companies use lacquer or something else (and of course, cymbals
are made of bronze, not brass), but it seems to work well in that
context too, at least until you've worn the coating off with repeated
thrashings. :-)


George did a lot of research on this when he owned his drum shop in Akron.
He was offering a cymbal polishing service and wanted to be able to
replace the coating the manufacturers put on. He spoke with the "Big 3"
and they all said they used lacquer. Of course, they was that term gets
thrown around by woodworkers, who knows if it's actually lacquer that
cymbal makers use. :-)

Whatever it is, they must be using a *very* thin coat. I remember
cleaning and polishing up one of my cymbals back in late seventies and
spraying it with a moderate coat of lacquer to see what the effect would
be. I might as well have draped a washcloth over the dumb thing. It
sounded like a pizza box. :-)

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

[tiredofspam]

So after looking around the internet, there are a few products made for
bare metal.

Just do a search. It is expensive, but available.

Some are single part, some are two part finishes.

So in answer to lacquer, I don't think it will stick without a
mechanical bond, and/or a primer. Since you are polishing, there is no
tooth for a mechanical bond.



On 2/21/2012 10:24 AM, Michael Joel wrote:
I have only tried to lacquer some metal once.

I first buffed the metal to polish it then wiped it down with
denatured alcohol to get any waxes/residue off. After the lacquer
(said it worked for metal) dried it was easy to get off. Any amount of
firm handling and it would start scratching right off.

Anyone used any lacquer to preserve a polished metal?

Mike

[WW[_2_]]

"Michael Joel" wrote in message
...
I have only tried to lacquer some metal once.

I first buffed the metal to polish it then wiped it down with
denatured alcohol to get any waxes/residue off. After the lacquer
(said it worked for metal) dried it was easy to get off. Any amount of
firm handling and it would start scratching right off.

Anyone used any lacquer to preserve a polished metal?

Mike

Misstake may have been the alcohol. That may have lefe a little resadue from
buffing. I clean with lacquer thinner when going to lacquer on metal. No
problems here. WW

[tiredofspam]

Ah, thats much better information. I thought it was steel or other
malleable iron.

I have painted over brass with clear rustoleum and no problems. Just
give it a few days to harden. Use acetone to clean first, then buff any
residue off with a soft cloth.


On 2/21/2012 1:04 PM, Michael Joel wrote:
On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 11:01:22 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Michael Joel wrote:
I have only tried to lacquer some metal once.

I first buffed the metal to polish it then wiped it down with
denatured alcohol to get any waxes/residue off. After the lacquer
(said it worked for metal) dried it was easy to get off. Any amount of
firm handling and it would start scratching right off.

Anyone used any lacquer to preserve a polished metal?


Oh - where to start... Ok - you read the instructions and you interpreted
them in a reasonable way, given a limited understanding. If you had read or
researched further, you would have easily seen that a good primer (and maybe
even an etching primer) were required to get a good bond. But... stop to
think - hundreds of thousands of cars have been painted with lacquer. If
they worked and your technique failed, where do you think the problem lies?

I will guarantee you that if you had read the instructions for your lacquer,
you would have found it is not a DTM (Direct To Metal application. I will
also guarantee you would have found that a highly polished surface is not
what you want to paint to. It does seem that you have not researched spray
painting at all, for you to have posted your experience. Not a problem -
it's things like this that help us learn, after all. Hell - if I had a
nickle for every damned mistake I ever made, I would be relaxing on a beach
in the Carribbean, sipping on drinks with umbrellas in them, and admiring my
wife in the sunshine. Alas...

Get your metal to a smooth, flat level (not polished!) and shoot a primer on
it. Flatten that primer with a 500 grit paper - unless you can shoot good
enough to shoot a nice level primer coat. THEN shoot your lacquer at it.
I'm a big advocate of shooting an etching primer on bare metal before
shooting a sandable primer at it - even if the primer is DTM. That may be
an "old habits die hard" statement.

You would have no such such problems as you have described, following this
technique.


I am aware of the differences in auto lacquer. You are right in that I
should have taken the time to test it with an auto lacquer (acrylic).

Product I tried was simply a can of Minwax clear lacquer - claiming to
be a good metal finish. Directions have no mention of etching base or
any base (except a possible use of a sanding sealer - which of course
is n/a). It most likely would be a good metal finish - it the item is
to be placed out of reach and out of use.

The item being covered was a set of piano pedals and hinges. Pedals
are usually solid brass, nickel (plated), or cast iron with a plating
of brass or nickel. Hinges are usually solid brass.

Such items are usually polished and then lacquered to protect the
metal's polish. The desired end result is of course a highly polished
metal that does not tarnish quickly.


---- as a side topic ---

What are people's expectations of being able to protect items such as
piano pedals? Of course these get a good rubbing from shoes.

Acrylic Lacquer I do not believe will hold up long.
A conversion laqcuer seems more trouble than it is worth. Same for
other conversion finishes.

So - some form of a polly? Easy to apply - trouble is of course long
drying times - but this is usually ok since a small dust free area
should be easy to come by.

Also - these items generally lose their plating - pedals especially. I
have thought of trying to color them back by applying a colored finish
(I doubt most customers would be willing to pay the expense of true
replating). Opinions on this?

Thanks
Mike

[Mike Marlow[_2_]]

Michael Joel wrote:


I am aware of the differences in auto lacquer. You are right in that I
should have taken the time to test it with an auto lacquer (acrylic).

Ok - sorry... it's the nature of forums like this where one does not know
who one is talking to.


Product I tried was simply a can of Minwax clear lacquer - claiming to
be a good metal finish. Directions have no mention of etching base or
any base (except a possible use of a sanding sealer - which of course
is n/a). It most likely would be a good metal finish - it the item is
to be placed out of reach and out of use.

Yup...


The item being covered was a set of piano pedals and hinges. Pedals
are usually solid brass, nickel (plated), or cast iron with a plating
of brass or nickel. Hinges are usually solid brass.

That's where the particulars come into play. Pedals for a piano are going
to be a problem. Urethane clear coat will work very well and will not blush
like lacquer will, but... it will wear through. So telll me... were those
pedals originally coated, or did they rely upon the scruffing of the shoe to
keep them looking shiney? I cannot think of a finish that will stand up to
a shoe rubbing on it without failure. I'd probably go with clear coat - but
I'm not sure that is going to satisfy what you seek.


Such items are usually polished and then lacquered to protect the
metal's polish. The desired end result is of course a highly polished
metal that does not tarnish quickly.

But - does that original lacquer really stand up, or is it that the shoe
keeps the pedal "polished"?

There is of course, electroplating. I am not really knowledgable in that
process, but it may offer a more durable solution for you.

--

-Mike-

[Mike Marlow[_2_]]

tiredofspam wrote:
Ah, thats much better information. I thought it was steel or other
malleable iron.

I have painted over brass with clear rustoleum and no problems. Just
give it a few days to harden. Use acetone to clean first, then buff
any residue off with a soft cloth.


A few days? Is there anything made by Rustoleum that does not require
either 1) a day in direct sunlight, or 2) an eternity in normal conditions
to harden?

--

-Mike-

[dadiOH[_3_]]

Swingman wrote:

(for the curious: the rocks on top belong to one of our pups (a true
rockhound), and are part of her prized collection of rare jewel
pebbles which she collects on walks, carries back to the house in her
mouth, then drops on the kitchen floor next to the window ...
apparently only because she can't reach the sill).

That's cute

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

[Stuart[_5_]]

In article ,
Swingman wrote:
I did this very thing once, exactly 49 years ago this summer, in
England, using what was sold over the counter at the time as "egg shell
varnish" (? I have no idea).

Refers to the finished texture/appearance - not high gloss.

--
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org

[Father Haskell]

On Feb 21, 10:24*am, Michael Joel wrote:
I have only tried to lacquer some metal once.

I first buffed the metal to polish it then wiped it down with
denatured alcohol to get any waxes/residue off. After the lacquer
(said it worked for metal) dried it was easy to get off. Any amount of
firm handling and it would start scratching right off.

Anyone used any lacquer to preserve a polished metal?

Mike

Not sure how it would work on metal, but dewaxed shellac
works beautifully as a sealer under lacquer on wood.

[Sonny]

Also - these items generally lose their plating - pedals especially. I
have thought of trying to color them back by applying a colored finish
(I doubt most customers would be willing to pay the expense of true
replating). Opinions on this?

Thanks
Mike- Hide quoted text -


I have no idea of the expense of replating, but I would suggest you
speak with your local Harley motorcycle guy/expert about replating.
Those guys replate their chrome parts and custom made parts. Those
replating guys are already be set up for replating small parts. I
would think they would know something, to lead you to a correct answer
or source for replating your piano petals.... appropriate estimates,
etc. They might even know something about applying a clearcoat finish
onto metal.

Sonny

[William[_7_]]

"Michael Joel" wrote in message
...
I have only tried to lacquer some metal once.

I first buffed the metal to polish it then wiped it down with
denatured alcohol to get any waxes/residue off. After the lacquer
(said it worked for metal) dried it was easy to get off. Any amount of
firm handling and it would start scratching right off.

Anyone used any lacquer to preserve a polished metal?

You may have buffed it too much or denatured alcohol is not the way to
go to make sure it is clean enough.

I do know, from my friends who do copper and brass jewelry, that some
metals need to be "pickled" first for best results. Traditionally that's a
light
acid etch (which acid depends on the metal), but there are mechanical
methods as well.

-Wm

[Michael Joel]

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 13:21:19 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Michael Joel wrote:


I am aware of the differences in auto lacquer. You are right in that I
should have taken the time to test it with an auto lacquer (acrylic).

Ok - sorry... it's the nature of forums like this where one does not know
who one is talking to.


SNIP

Nope - I am still very much a novice, but have done studying. So far
some knowledge mixed with some skill - very possibly more knowledge
than skill - or possibly very little of each lol

Mike

[Michael Joel]

A lot of good information - gives me a lot of possible options.

The pedals are usually solid brass, or an iron with nickel or brass
plating. They generally come lacquered. But, at least for the pedals,
obviously it would seem that is more to prevent tarnish while in
storage than anything else

For the plated pedals the area the feet rest on usually is worn
through after a few years.

I guess there really is no way to protect items under such wear.

Sending them out for replating would of course only be an option for
customers with the better pianos.

Like I said - a lot to think about - a lot of information.
Thanks all
Mike

[Michael Joel]

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 13:21:19 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Michael Joel wrote:


SNIP
a shoe rubbing on it without failure. I'd probably go with clear coat - but
I'm not sure that is going to satisfy what you seek.

SNIP

As I said before, still learing and getting experience with that
actual use of the things I've been reading about, so forgive me asking
if this has an obvious answer - what are you referring to as clear
coat? I do not recall hearing any particular finish just called clear
coat.

Thanks
Mike

[Mike Marlow[_2_]]

Michael Joel wrote:
A lot of good information - gives me a lot of possible options.

The pedals are usually solid brass, or an iron with nickel or brass
plating. They generally come lacquered. But, at least for the pedals,
obviously it would seem that is more to prevent tarnish while in
storage than anything else

For the plated pedals the area the feet rest on usually is worn
through after a few years.

I guess there really is no way to protect items under such wear.

Sending them out for replating would of course only be an option for
customers with the better pianos.

Like I said - a lot to think about - a lot of information.


So - if periodic wear and re-coating is the norm and somewhat expected, then
I would highly recommend a simple automotive clear coat. I have done this
to refinish the brass handles on my house doors, and restore them to the
factory original finish. Buff them up to the desired finish but don't use
crap like Brasso. Once you have them up where you want them, clean them
with lacquer thinner or a similar solvent to rid them of any buffing
compound. Then, simply shoot clear coat over the pedal. If you don't want
to invest in or bother with the clear coat process, simply take them to any
local auto body shop and let them shoot the pedals for you - it won't cost
much and you'll like the finish. Clear will last longer than lacquer under
foot pressure, but in time will need to be recoated - but so do the factory
finishes.

--

-Mike-

[Mike Marlow[_2_]]

Michael Joel wrote:


As I said before, still learing and getting experience with that
actual use of the things I've been reading about, so forgive me asking
if this has an obvious answer - what are you referring to as clear
coat? I do not recall hearing any particular finish just called clear
coat.


Sorry Mike - automotive clear coat - the stuff that is on your car. It's a
urethane and is a catalytic finish. Very nasty stuff - very nasty
(isocyanate), so you do not want to breath it in at all. If you can smell
it, you are hurting yourself. But - it's one hell of a finish. Best left
to those with the right equipment and protective resources. My protective
gear costs more than the shop equipment some of us have in this forum -
because that's the level of protection you need to shoot this stuff.

As I said in my previous reply - you would be best to take your pedals to a
body shop and ask them to just clear them for you. Probably would not even
cost that much since they'd probably just do it while they were painting a
car.

--

-Mike-

[Gerald Ross[_3_]]

tiredofspam wrote:
So after looking around the internet, there are a few products made for
bare metal.

Just do a search. It is expensive, but available.

Some are single part, some are two part finishes.

So in answer to lacquer, I don't think it will stick without a
mechanical bond, and/or a primer. Since you are polishing, there is no
tooth for a mechanical bond.



On 2/21/2012 10:24 AM, Michael Joel wrote:
I have only tried to lacquer some metal once.

I first buffed the metal to polish it then wiped it down with
denatured alcohol to get any waxes/residue off. After the lacquer
(said it worked for metal) dried it was easy to get off. Any amount of
firm handling and it would start scratching right off.

Anyone used any lacquer to preserve a polished metal?

Mike

I have used lacquer on polished brass. The trick is to get all the
polish off Stick type metal
polishes have a grease or wax base. After the buffing you should
clean the metal with
acetone as someone has already mentioned I don't think alcohol will
cut it.

A light coat of rattle can lacquer with another coat when dry. This
will not last where the shoes rub but in general will last several
years of light use.

--
Gerald Ross

I hate it when that happens.

[Mike Marlow[_2_]]

Gerald Ross wrote:


I have used lacquer on polished brass. The trick is to get all the
polish off Stick type metal
polishes have a grease or wax base. After the buffing you should
clean the metal with
acetone as someone has already mentioned I don't think alcohol will
cut it.

A light coat of rattle can lacquer with another coat when dry. This
will not last where the shoes rub but in general will last several
years of light use.

Lacquer will indeed work. I don't like lacquer because it does not stand up
as well as urethane clear does, but more importantly, if the conditions are
not right, it can be a pain to shoot. If the humidity is high (or the Dew
Point, or whatever...) lacquer will fog. Pain right in the butt! Urethane
clears won't do that, but they are also way more complex to shoot. You're
not going to shoot it out of a rattle can. I do use rattle cans for
somethings, but for anything that I really want a good finish on, I spend
the time to mix up and shoot out of a proper spray gun. But - you probably
don't have the ability to do that, so... ya does what works best.

--

-Mike-

[[email protected]]

As always, lots of good information here. Especially the warnings
from Mike M. All of this stuff is too dangerous to take lightly, but
the stuff he is talking about I won't even touch.

As far as refinishing metal pedals, I don't really know of anything
that will stand up to heavy foot abrasion. In my mind's eye, I can
see a virtuoso piano player hammering out the chorus of the 1812
Overture, and jumping up and down on the pedals to be heard.

Very few finishes will hold up to that kind of abrasion, especially
when applied over such a hard substrate. I certainly don't know any.

While this may not help the OP, I have refinished brass hardware and
it is easy to do if you are patient. I have had great success using a
product from the guys at Kwick Kleen as they make a product
specifically to put on metal hardware after cleaning and buffing. No
etch needed. Good UV resistance, no blushing, and dries quite hard.
Comes in a rattle can so you could tape off the pedals and spray in
place. As a conversion lacquer, you can clean off the old finish with
the proper solvent, and easily touch up the metal after cleaning.

Another product that is great, but no longer available locally
(damnit) is PermaLac. That stuff is made for metal specifically, and
is a conversion lacquer so it dries quite hard and is very water
resistant. In a rattle can as well. Has the same properties as above
(easy prep, easy application/renewal of the surface) and I didn't have
to pay shipping. Someone carried it around here and I found it at an
aircraft specialty finish store where they sell the big boy finishes
like Emron and it was considered as the clear "go to' finish for
metal.

Since I would be thinking of surface renewal, I would be thinking ease
of removal and reapplication, and consider pedal refinishing a
maintenance issue rather than thinking of a more permanent solution.

As always, just my 0.02...

Robert

[Pat Barber[_2_]]

Yes....I have a solid copper wind vane that I clean
every few years. I clean and polish with Brasso and
get it nice and bright. I then spray the whole
thing with a rattle can of lacquer.

It will last several years in a salt air environment.

On 2/21/2012 7:24 AM, Michael Joel wrote:
I have only tried to lacquer some metal once.

I first buffed the metal to polish it then wiped it down with
denatured alcohol to get any waxes/residue off. After the lacquer
(said it worked for metal) dried it was easy to get off. Any amount of
firm handling and it would start scratching right off.

Anyone used any lacquer to preserve a polished metal?

Mike

[tiredofspam]

IMRON... practically bullet proof.. ok slight exageration.
Very toxic 2 part mixture.

On 2/22/2012 12:46 AM, wrote:
As always, lots of good information here. Especially the warnings
from Mike M. All of this stuff is too dangerous to take lightly, but
the stuff he is talking about I won't even touch.

As far as refinishing metal pedals, I don't really know of anything
that will stand up to heavy foot abrasion. In my mind's eye, I can
see a virtuoso piano player hammering out the chorus of the 1812
Overture, and jumping up and down on the pedals to be heard.

Very few finishes will hold up to that kind of abrasion, especially
when applied over such a hard substrate. I certainly don't know any.

While this may not help the OP, I have refinished brass hardware and
it is easy to do if you are patient. I have had great success using a
product from the guys at Kwick Kleen as they make a product
specifically to put on metal hardware after cleaning and buffing. No
etch needed. Good UV resistance, no blushing, and dries quite hard.
Comes in a rattle can so you could tape off the pedals and spray in
place. As a conversion lacquer, you can clean off the old finish with
the proper solvent, and easily touch up the metal after cleaning.

Another product that is great, but no longer available locally
(damnit) is PermaLac. That stuff is made for metal specifically, and
is a conversion lacquer so it dries quite hard and is very water
resistant. In a rattle can as well. Has the same properties as above
(easy prep, easy application/renewal of the surface) and I didn't have
to pay shipping. Someone carried it around here and I found it at an
aircraft specialty finish store where they sell the big boy finishes
like Emron and it was considered as the clear "go to' finish for
metal.

Since I would be thinking of surface renewal, I would be thinking ease
of removal and reapplication, and consider pedal refinishing a
maintenance issue rather than thinking of a more permanent solution.

As always, just my 0.02...

Robert

[Mike Marlow[_2_]]

tiredofspam wrote:

IMRON... practically bullet proof.. ok slight exageration.
Very toxic 2 part mixture.


Indeed - to die for... so to speak...

It was great stuff though, wasn't it?

--

-Mike-

[Larry Jaques[_4_]]

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 21:06:30 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

tiredofspam wrote:

IMRON... practically bullet proof.. ok slight exageration.
Very toxic 2 part mixture.


Indeed - to die for... so to speak...

It was great stuff though, wasn't it?

I had the painter at my body shop (where I wrenched) do my '72 Int'l
Scout with royal blue Imron. He used undercoat under black Imron on
the removable top and it looked really sharp. That was some tough
paint. Another friend _gave_ it to me. He said he had sold the
plane, after deciding against painting it before he sold it, so the
Imron was still in his garage, unmixed. I was happy.

--
Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are
based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that
I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as
I have received and am still receiving.
-- Albert Einstein

[Mike Marlow[_2_]]

Larry Jaques wrote:


I had the painter at my body shop (where I wrenched) do my '72 Int'l
Scout with royal blue Imron. He used undercoat under black Imron on
the removable top and it looked really sharp. That was some tough
paint. Another friend _gave_ it to me. He said he had sold the
plane, after deciding against painting it before he sold it, so the
Imron was still in his garage, unmixed. I was happy.

The stuff was just great as a product. Shot well, easy, and was
indestructable. A tad toxic, but what the hell - we were all
indesctructable at that time as well - right?

--

-Mike-

[Larry Jaques[_4_]]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 01:01:48 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:


I had the painter at my body shop (where I wrenched) do my '72 Int'l
Scout with royal blue Imron. He used undercoat under black Imron on
the removable top and it looked really sharp. That was some tough
paint. Another friend _gave_ it to me. He said he had sold the
plane, after deciding against painting it before he sold it, so the
Imron was still in his garage, unmixed. I was happy.

The stuff was just great as a product. Shot well, easy, and was
indestructable. A tad toxic, but what the hell - we were all
indesctructable at that time as well - right?

And we all survived without the Nanny State to help us, didn't we?

--
Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are
based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that
I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as
I have received and am still receiving.
-- Albert Einstein

[Steve Turner[_3_]]

On 2/23/2012 12:01 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:


I had the painter at my body shop (where I wrenched) do my '72 Int'l
Scout with royal blue Imron. He used undercoat under black Imron on
the removable top and it looked really sharp. That was some tough
paint. Another friend _gave_ it to me. He said he had sold the
plane, after deciding against painting it before he sold it, so the
Imron was still in his garage, unmixed. I was happy.

The stuff was just great as a product. Shot well, easy, and was
indestructable. A tad toxic, but what the hell - we were all
indesctructable at that time as well - right?

A buddy of mine and I sprayed quite a few vehicles with Imron back in the late
seventies/early eighties. Great stuff. I remember the first time we tried it
we mixed some up and didn't use it all; we left it in the gun with intention to
come back the next morning and shoot another coat. I guess you know what
happened with that little strategy! :-)

I take it Imron is no longer available? What happened, did the tree huggers
drive it off the market?

--
Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how
sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

[Mike Marlow[_2_]]

Steve Turner wrote:


A buddy of mine and I sprayed quite a few vehicles with Imron back in
the late seventies/early eighties. Great stuff. I remember the
first time we tried it we mixed some up and didn't use it all; we
left it in the gun with intention to come back the next morning and
shoot another coat. I guess you know what happened with that little
strategy! :-)

Funny! But - today's urethanes will do the same thing. Pot life has almost
become a term of the past. I can remember when I would mix up a gun full of
primer and hang it on the hook until I was completely done with primer -
which might be tomorrow. No more! So now we have all of these safer,
better paints that require us to use more lacquer thinner (etc.) to clean
guns immediately. No problem though - 'cause now we have disposal
regulations and licensed agencies to deal with all of that...


I take it Imron is no longer available? What happened, did the tree
huggers drive it off the market?

I don't even know if you can still buy Imron. Maybe so - but I don't shoot
it anymore so I have not kept track. Tree huggers - Yup! That, and the
"this will cause cancer" idiots in California that somehow seem to influence
the rest of the country.

--

-Mike-