I am going to be painting a cabinet I bought with Benjamin Moore
interior semi-gloss latex paint. The cabinet is made of Baltic Birch
plywood and Poplar.

I want to avoid raising the grain on the cabinet when I apply
primer and having to sand everything again. Which of the following
priming techniquest are least likely to raise grain.


1. Zinnser Bulls Eye 1-2-3 Water-base Primer
(advantage is easy-clean up but worried about water-based)

2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
(will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
seems more targeted at stain-killing)

3. Standard latex-based primer (e.g., Benjamin Moore)

4. Shellac as a sealcoat +/- followed by primer (is primer necessary if
you have a shellac sealcoat?)

5. Oil-based primer? (Do they still exist? I have seen it for exterior
where it is recommended for Cedar but not for interior recently)

6. Suck it up and sand after priming? It's good for you...

7. Other suggestion?

On 12/18/2011 10:06 AM, blueman wrote:
I am going to be painting a cabinet I bought with Benjamin Moore
interior semi-gloss latex paint. The cabinet is made of Baltic Birch
plywood and Poplar.

I want to avoid raising the grain on the cabinet when I apply
primer and having to sand everything again. Which of the following
priming techniquest are least likely to raise grain.

4. Shellac as a sealcoat +/- followed by primer (is primer necessary if
you have a shellac sealcoat?)

y preference ... primer not necessary.

7. Other suggestion?

Followed by a light sanding ... if you're going to the trouble, do it right.


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 11:06:02 -0500, blueman wrote:




I want to avoid raising the grain on the cabinet when I apply
primer and having to sand everything again. Which of the following
priming techniquest are least likely to raise grain.

Anything with water is likely to raise the grain.

No matter what I use, I give a light sanding after the first coat
anyway. IMO, you are more likely to get a better finish.

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 10:12:49 -0600, Swingman wrote:

4. Shellac as a sealcoat +/- followed by primer (is primer necessary if
you have a shellac sealcoat?)

y preference ... primer not necessary.

Same here. Zinsser SealCoat or dewaxed from flakes.

But be *very* *sure* it's dewaxed!

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On 12/18/2011 10:06 AM, blueman wrote:
I am going to be painting a cabinet I bought with Benjamin Moore
interior semi-gloss latex paint. The cabinet is made of Baltic Birch
plywood and Poplar.

I want to avoid raising the grain on the cabinet when I apply
primer and having to sand everything again. Which of the following
priming techniquest are least likely to raise grain.


1. Zinnser Bulls Eye 1-2-3 Water-base Primer
(advantage is easy-clean up but worried about water-based)


I have done a lot of oil based and water based painting. Oil based
painting clean up is MUCH easier than water based clean up. Mineral
spirits cleans instantly, I wish I could say that for soap and water.


2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
(will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
seems more targeted at stain-killing)

3. Standard latex-based primer (e.g., Benjamin Moore)

4. Shellac as a sealcoat +/- followed by primer (is primer necessary if
you have a shellac sealcoat?)

5. Oil-based primer? (Do they still exist? I have seen it for exterior
where it is recommended for Cedar but not for interior recently)

6. Suck it up and sand after priming? It's good for you...

Not a bad idea if you do go with water based. That sanding step to get
rid of the raised grain is very light and quick.

ALSO if you use a water based latex paint for a book case, buy the
absolute best quality you can get. Do not assume that a particular
brand will offer the best in all of its products. Typically average
water based paints tale a long tome to cure and will be sticky/stick to
anything that you might set on it. Oil alkyd based paints cure much
harder and quickly. I have a new home painted with water based Sherwin
William paint on the trim. 1 year later the surface is harder but
things still stick to it.





7. Other suggestion?

"blueman" wrote in message
...
I am going to be painting a cabinet I bought with Benjamin Moore
interior semi-gloss latex paint. The cabinet is made of Baltic Birch
plywood and Poplar.

I want to avoid raising the grain on the cabinet when I apply
primer and having to sand everything again. Which of the following
priming techniquest are least likely to raise grain.


1. Zinnser Bulls Eye 1-2-3 Water-base Primer
(advantage is easy-clean up but worried about water-based)

2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
(will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
seems more targeted at stain-killing)

3. Standard latex-based primer (e.g., Benjamin Moore)

4. Shellac as a sealcoat +/- followed by primer (is primer necessary if
you have a shellac sealcoat?)

5. Oil-based primer? (Do they still exist? I have seen it for exterior
where it is recommended for Cedar but not for interior recently)

6. Suck it up and sand after priming? It's good for you...

7. Other suggestion?


BIN is simply white pigmented shellac so you can use BIN or unpigmented
shellac as a sealer / primer. I prefer BIN since it provides me with a
white "canvas". Just make sure that if you use shellac, it is dewaxed.
Sealcoat is already dewaxed.
Any solvent will raise the grain but some do it to a much lesser extent.
In general, water raises it the most followed by alcohols followed by
hydrocarbons which raise it the least.
I appreciate that you do not want to sand before applying top coats but
you will always get a better finished product if you do so. Perhaps only
sand the most visible parts of the cabinet.

Good Luck

On Dec 18, 10:06*am, blueman wrote:

2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
* *(will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
* *seems more targeted at stain-killing)

Once I discovered how easy this stuff is to use, i have never looked
back. I spray it, and unless I get a nib or two, I don't sand.
However, if it is hand applied, I always sand just a bit to get the
last of the brush strokes out.

BIN is simply dewaxed, shellac with zinc oxide ( I believe ) suspended
in it. It provides good stain killing properties, but the bonus is
that the resulting surface is more grippy than plain shellac.


6. Suck it up and sand after priming? It's good for you...

If hand applied, you bet.

Robert

I would not use a latex paint on cupboards. It stays tender forever.


"blueman" wrote in message
...
I am going to be painting a cabinet I bought with Benjamin Moore
interior semi-gloss latex paint. The cabinet is made of Baltic Birch
plywood and Poplar.

I want to avoid raising the grain on the cabinet when I apply
primer and having to sand everything again. Which of the following
priming techniquest are least likely to raise grain.


1. Zinnser Bulls Eye 1-2-3 Water-base Primer
(advantage is easy-clean up but worried about water-based)

2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
(will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
seems more targeted at stain-killing)

3. Standard latex-based primer (e.g., Benjamin Moore)

4. Shellac as a sealcoat +/- followed by primer (is primer necessary if
you have a shellac sealcoat?)

5. Oil-based primer? (Do they still exist? I have seen it for exterior
where it is recommended for Cedar but not for interior recently)

6. Suck it up and sand after priming? It's good for you...

7. Other suggestion?

On 12/18/2011 7:14 PM, Pat wrote:
I would not use a latex paint on cupboards. It stays tender forever.

That would coincide with the quality of latex paint you use. Better
latex paints cure much harder more quickly.

On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 06:28:13 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
That would coincide with the quality of latex paint you use. Better
latex paints cure much harder more quickly.

I've recently come to that conclusion too. Only one question. How does
one determine which latex paints are of higher quality? I haven't seen
too many reviews of latex paint.

On 12/19/2011 6:11 AM, Dave wrote:
On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 06:28:13 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
That would coincide with the quality of latex paint you use. Better
latex paints cure much harder more quickly.

I've recently come to that conclusion too. Only one question. How does
one determine which latex paints are of higher quality? I haven't seen
too many reviews of latex paint.

well the best way is to ask a world wide group of people. you'll get no
less than 50 DIFFERENT answers. I've seen some downright ****ty paint
taunted as the greatest, and i've seen some of the best paints
downgraded as ****. So, which pickup truck is the best make?

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

" writes:

On Dec 18, 10:06Â*am, blueman wrote:

2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
Â* Â*(will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
Â* Â*seems more targeted at stain-killing)

Once I discovered how easy this stuff is to use, i have never looked
back. I spray it, and unless I get a nib or two, I don't sand.
However, if it is hand applied, I always sand just a bit to get the
last of the brush strokes out.

What size needle orifice do you use?
Do you dilute it all or spray as-is?
(I know it differs by gun/system but just wanted to get a ballpark
estimate). I use a relatively low end compressor HVLP gun...

How is the cleanup? (my concern is that it dries so fast that it might
gum up the works) Do you use alcahol or ammonia as solvent?

Any other tips for spraying BIN?

Thanks!

BIN is simply dewaxed, shellac with zinc oxide ( I believe ) suspended
in it. It provides good stain killing properties, but the bonus is
that the resulting surface is more grippy than plain shellac.


6. Suck it up and sand after priming? It's good for you...

If hand applied, you bet.

Robert

Use what Robert tells you(NailShooter41).

On 12/18/2011 8:06 AM, blueman wrote:
I am going to be painting a cabinet I bought with Benjamin Moore
interior semi-gloss latex paint. The cabinet is made of Baltic Birch
plywood and Poplar.



2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
(will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
seems more targeted at stain-killing)

On 12/19/2011 8:11 AM, Dave wrote:
On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 06:28:13 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
That would coincide with the quality of latex paint you use. Better
latex paints cure much harder more quickly.

I've recently come to that conclusion too. Only one question. How does
one determine which latex paints are of higher quality? I haven't seen
too many reviews of latex paint.

I believe you go into the top brand paint store of your choice and tell
them you want the best fastest curing acrylic latex they have. Thee
them what you expect and see if they can deliver. Sample ahead of time.

On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 13:34:06 -0800, Pat Barber
wrote:

Believe his Sherwin Williams dealer is one of his primary resources
for info on paint. I have found mine to be knowledgable and if he does
not know he will find out. YMMV

Mark

Use what Robert tells you(NailShooter41).

On 12/18/2011 8:06 AM, blueman wrote:
I am going to be painting a cabinet I bought with Benjamin Moore
interior semi-gloss latex paint. The cabinet is made of Baltic Birch
plywood and Poplar.



2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
(will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
seems more targeted at stain-killing)

" writes:

On Dec 18, 10:06Â*am, blueman wrote:

2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
Â* Â*(will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
Â* Â*seems more targeted at stain-killing)

Once I discovered how easy this stuff is to use, i have never looked
back. I spray it, and unless I get a nib or two, I don't sand.
However, if it is hand applied, I always sand just a bit to get the
last of the brush strokes out.

I was about to spray but then woried that with an alcahol-base it could
be an explosion hazard if used in my basement (with water heater &
gas-furnaces) since I don't have an explosion-proof enclosure. Am I
being too cautious???

That being said, I ended up brushing it on and found it frustratingly
hard to apply. It dried so quickly that I found it very difficult to
keep a wet edge. To even approximate a wet edge and to get good coverage
without patches of wood bleeding through, I found I needed to apply
quite a generous coat. Additionally, paint would continually dry on my
brush leaving 'muck' that would get stuck in the paint. I was applying
the pain in a cool (60 degrees) basement.

Is that normal or am I doing something wrong?

BIN is simply dewaxed, shellac with zinc oxide ( I believe ) suspended
in it. It provides good stain killing properties, but the bonus is
that the resulting surface is more grippy than plain shellac.


6. Suck it up and sand after priming? It's good for you...

If hand applied, you bet.

Robert

On Dec 19, 7:28*am, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
On 12/18/2011 7:14 PM, Pat wrote:

I would not use a latex paint on cupboards. *It stays tender forever.

That would coincide with the quality of latex paint you use. *Better
latex paints cure much harder more quickly.

Acrylic trim / door paint cures hard, colors aren't as washed
out looking as latex.

On Dec 18, 1:42*pm, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
On 12/18/2011 10:06 AM, blueman wrote:

I am going to be painting a cabinet I bought with Benjamin Moore
interior semi-gloss latex paint. The cabinet is made of *Baltic Birch
plywood and Poplar.

I want to avoid raising the grain on the cabinet when I apply
primer and having to sand everything again. Which of the following
priming techniquest are least likely to raise grain.

1. Zinnser Bulls Eye 1-2-3 Water-base Primer
* * (advantage is easy-clean up but worried about water-based)

I have done a lot of oil based and water based painting. *Oil based
painting clean up is MUCH easier than water based clean up. *Mineral
spirits cleans instantly, I wish I could say that for soap and water.

Beauty of straight shellac as a primer is you don't
have to clean the brush. Wrap it in plastic, and next
time you need it, squirt a little alcohol into the wrapping.
It'll be as supple as new in a couple of hours.

2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
* * (will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
* * seems more targeted at stain-killing)

3. Standard latex-based primer (e.g., Benjamin Moore)

4. Shellac as a sealcoat +/- followed by primer (is primer necessary if
* * you have a shellac sealcoat?)

5. Oil-based primer? (Do they still exist? I have seen it for exterior
* * where it is recommended for Cedar but not for interior recently)

6. Suck it up and sand after priming? It's good for you...

Not a bad idea if you do go with water based. *That sanding step to get
rid of the raised grain is very light and quick.

Grain raising is an overstated problem. I've used water-thinned
Transfast dye on ash and had it come out as smooth and level
as glass (shellac, *after* filling the grain with epoxy, of course).
Raise the grain with a damp cloth and sand it back a couple
of times. It won't raise a third time.

ALSO if you use a water based latex paint for a book case, buy the
absolute best quality you can get. *Do not assume that a particular
brand will offer the best in all of its products. *Typically average
water based paints tale a long tome to cure and will be sticky/stick to
anything that you might set on it. *Oil alkyd based paints cure much
harder and quickly. *I have a new home painted with water based Sherwin
William paint on the trim. *1 year later the surface is harder but
things still stick to it.

Benny Moore Enduro (oil based) is my favorite shelf paint.

On 12/20/2011 12:01 AM, Father Haskell wrote:
On Dec 18, 1:42 pm, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Grain raising is an overstated problem. I've used water-thinned
Transfast dye on ash and had it come out as smooth and level
as glass (shellac, *after* filling the grain with epoxy, of course).
Raise the grain with a damp cloth and sand it back a couple
of times. It won't raise a third time.


If you go to the trouble to fill the grain with epoxy, sand, wet, sand,
wet, sand and then shellac I would not IMHO say that dealing with raised
grain is an overstated issue.