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Default Water in the basement

I have my shop in my basement. It's a small ranch, wish it was a walk out.

Anyway, I have never had water in the basement before this weekend.
It's a finished basement, sheetrock and insulation. Originally for my
son to play in, then it morphed from a small shop to the whole basement.

Well I have ripped out the bottom of the walls and glass batts to stop
the mold. I am airing out, and thanks to a moisture meter, I can tell
I'm doing better. It will take a while.. Some of it I didn't get to
until today. That was very moldy..


I want to redo the bottom and close it up. Building code here requires
the walls be sealed up.

What to do. Sheetrock and fiberglass batts again..

Or something that won't soak up the moisture and require ripping apart.
If it happened once, it can again.

Anyone know of a good choice for the bottom of the wall?

That will promote drying, not be a sponge, and not mold over easily. I
have cut out the bottom 8" to promote the drying further up... I might
have to cut some areas out completely, but 8" seems to be working. The
wet stuff higher up is drying out mostly.

Most all my tools survived unscathed.. I haven't looked under the
jointer, bandsaw.. to see if they are rusting out the bottom...

Some wood was damaged, my new bench was damaged by dirty water. It was a
piece of furniture, now its just a workbench.. (well it always was a
workbench, it just looked so good before the dirty water stained the legs.
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Default Water in the basement

"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...
I have my shop in my basement. It's a small ranch, wish it was a walk out.

Anyway, I have never had water in the basement before this weekend.
It's a finished basement, sheetrock and insulation. Originally for my son
to play in, then it morphed from a small shop to the whole basement.

Well I have ripped out the bottom of the walls and glass batts to stop the
mold. I am airing out, and thanks to a moisture meter, I can tell I'm
doing better. It will take a while.. Some of it I didn't get to until
today. That was very moldy..


I want to redo the bottom and close it up. Building code here requires the
walls be sealed up.

What to do. Sheetrock and fiberglass batts again..

Or something that won't soak up the moisture and require ripping apart. If
it happened once, it can again.

Anyone know of a good choice for the bottom of the wall?

That will promote drying, not be a sponge, and not mold over easily. I
have cut out the bottom 8" to promote the drying further up... I might
have to cut some areas out completely, but 8" seems to be working. The wet
stuff higher up is drying out mostly.

Most all my tools survived unscathed.. I haven't looked under the jointer,
bandsaw.. to see if they are rusting out the bottom...

Some wood was damaged, my new bench was damaged by dirty water. It was a
piece of furniture, now its just a workbench.. (well it always was a
workbench, it just looked so good before the dirty water stained the legs.



Durock (http://www.durocknextgen.com/) or hardiboard. (James Hardie fiber
cement backer board) for the lower 2 feet or so of the walls.

Max

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Default Water in the basement

Had that done to us 50 years ago - 6' (2M) flood in the front yard.
Water was kept out of the house and that was a task. Sandbags.
The shop tables - oak with linoleum on top. They were from a library
that got modern tables. The 4x4" legs were nice and strong.

Anyway the tables lost all of the varnish. The linoleum was curled.
Tools and stuff in boxes - like a nice set of 35mm movie film was under
water.

Oh - did I say we just moved in - half of the stuff was in the back yard.

If you varnish a top - varnish the bottom. Do keep the boards in the
same drying percentage. Otherwise they will cup.

The sheetrock - I'd use the blue board that retards or forbids mold.
It is used in bathrooms. It won't soak up water like normal sheetrock.

I'd consider using he spray foam that will give you isolation and some
water. It seals with closed cells. pricy - about $100 for 100 square ft.

Martin

On 8/31/2011 9:42 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
I have my shop in my basement. It's a small ranch, wish it was a walk out.

Anyway, I have never had water in the basement before this weekend.
It's a finished basement, sheetrock and insulation. Originally for my
son to play in, then it morphed from a small shop to the whole basement.

Well I have ripped out the bottom of the walls and glass batts to stop
the mold. I am airing out, and thanks to a moisture meter, I can tell
I'm doing better. It will take a while.. Some of it I didn't get to
until today. That was very moldy..


I want to redo the bottom and close it up. Building code here requires
the walls be sealed up.

What to do. Sheetrock and fiberglass batts again..

Or something that won't soak up the moisture and require ripping apart.
If it happened once, it can again.

Anyone know of a good choice for the bottom of the wall?

That will promote drying, not be a sponge, and not mold over easily. I
have cut out the bottom 8" to promote the drying further up... I might
have to cut some areas out completely, but 8" seems to be working. The
wet stuff higher up is drying out mostly.

Most all my tools survived unscathed.. I haven't looked under the
jointer, bandsaw.. to see if they are rusting out the bottom...

Some wood was damaged, my new bench was damaged by dirty water. It was a
piece of furniture, now its just a workbench.. (well it always was a
workbench, it just looked so good before the dirty water stained the legs.

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On Aug 31, 7:42*pm, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com wrote:
I have my shop in my basement. It's a small ranch, wish it was a walk out..

Anyway, I have never had water in the basement before this weekend.
It's a finished basement, sheetrock and insulation. Originally for my
son to play in, then it morphed from a small shop to the whole basement.

Well I have ripped out the bottom of the walls and glass batts to stop
the mold. I am airing out, and thanks to a moisture meter, I can tell
I'm doing better. It will take a while.. Some of it I didn't get to
until today. That was very moldy..


Mould is bad, you need to disinfect it otherwise it will always be
there and could cause respiratory problems. Spray with bleach or there
are other products out there. Just letting it dry out is not good
enough. I am not talking out of my arse here, I do work for various
Yukon government departments and specialize in housing economics. We
have serious mould problems in the Yukon in houses with inadequate
vapour barriers. and it's usually very expensive to fix.

I want to redo the bottom and close it up. Building code here requires
the walls be sealed up.

What to do. Sheetrock and fiberglass batts again..


No, Styrofoam (extruded polystyrene?) and plywood. I had a similar
problem with the wall between the gara^H^H^H^H shop and greenhouse.
The bottom of the fiberglass was soaked as was the drywall. I replace
the bottom two feet of insulation with Styrofoam, and replaced the
plywood sheathing in the greenhouse. I still have to replace the
drywall in the shop.

Or something that won't soak up the moisture and require ripping apart.
If it happened once, it can again.

Anyone know of a good choice for the bottom of the wall?

That will promote drying, not be a sponge, and not mold over easily. I
have cut out the bottom 8" to promote the drying further up... I might
have to cut some areas out completely, but 8" seems to be working. The
wet stuff higher up is drying out mostly.

Most all my tools survived unscathed.. I haven't looked under the
jointer, bandsaw.. to see if they are rusting out the bottom...


That is good, but would not have been fatal. Unless it reached the
motors, nothign that WD-40, stell wool and elbow grease can't fix.

Some wood was damaged, my new bench was damaged by dirty water. It was a
piece of furniture, now its just a workbench.. (well it always was a
workbench, it just looked so good before the dirty water stained the legs..


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Default Water in the basement

On 8/31/11 11:24 PM, Luigi Zanasi wrote:
That is good, but would not have been fatal. Unless it reached the
motors, nothign that WD-40, stell wool and elbow grease can't fix.


Or forget the elbow grease, and go with T-9 Rust Free.


--

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"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply



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Default Water in the basement


"tiredofspam" wrote:

I have my shop in my basement. It's a small ranch, wish it was a walk
out.

Anyway, I have never had water in the basement before this weekend.
It's a finished basement, sheetrock and insulation. Originally for
my son to play in, then it morphed from a small shop to the whole
basement.

Well I have ripped out the bottom of the walls and glass batts to
stop the mold. I am airing out, and thanks to a moisture meter, I
can tell I'm doing better. It will take a while.. Some of it I
didn't get to until today. That was very moldy..


I want to redo the bottom and close it up. Building code here
requires the walls be sealed up.

What to do. Sheetrock and fiberglass batts again..

Or something that won't soak up the moisture and require ripping
apart. If it happened once, it can again.

Anyone know of a good choice for the bottom of the wall?

That will promote drying, not be a sponge, and not mold over easily.
I have cut out the bottom 8" to promote the drying further up... I
might have to cut some areas out completely, but 8" seems to be
working. The wet stuff higher up is drying out mostly.

Most all my tools survived unscathed.. I haven't looked under the
jointer, bandsaw.. to see if they are rusting out the bottom...

Some wood was damaged, my new bench was damaged by dirty water. It
was a piece of furniture, now its just a workbench.. (well it always
was a workbench, it just looked so good before the dirty water
stained the legs.

-----------------------------------------
I'd use cement backer board and sheet foam insulation.

Based on your description, I'd remove the bottom 24".

Doesn't add much work but buys a lot of safety.

Lew


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On 8/31/2011 10:42 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
I have my shop in my basement. It's a small ranch, wish it was a walk out.

Anyway, I have never had water in the basement before this weekend.

[...]

Anyone know of a good choice for the bottom of the wall?


Never mind *that*.

What you need to do *first* is find out how and why the water got in,
and fix *that* problem. If it was only a little bit of seepage, applying
a waterproofing paint such as Dry-Lok to the inside of the wall may be
sufficient. If it was a lot, and it was flowing, not seeping, you may
need to install perimeter drains and waterproof the foundation on the
outside.

Regardless, you need to examine your rainwater drainage:
- Is the ground immediately next to your house sloped to drain surface
water away from the foundation, or does it allow water to pool next to
the foundation (or worse, drain toward it)?
- Do the downspouts from your gutters have extensions that direct
rainwater some distance away from the foundation before dumping it on
the ground? Five or six feet is good. Ten inches is not.
- Have you checked your gutters and downspouts to make sure they're not
clogged? In a heavy rain, an overflowing gutter can dump an amazing
amount of water right next to the foundation.
- Are your gutters and downspouts large enough to handle a heavy rain?
Do you have enough downspouts? If water can't get out of the gutter
system at least as fast as it comes in, you're going to have an overflow
somewhere.
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On Wed, 31 Aug 2011 22:42:19 -0400, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com
wrote:

I have my shop in my basement. It's a small ranch, wish it was a walk out.

Anyway, I have never had water in the basement before this weekend.
It's a finished basement, sheetrock and insulation. Originally for my
son to play in, then it morphed from a small shop to the whole basement.


How'd it get wet?


I want to redo the bottom and close it up. Building code here requires
the walls be sealed up.


Excavate around the building, pressure-wash and dry, seal with
paint-on membrane or use EDPM, whatever code approves in your area.
Insulate it while you're there, too. And do a walk-out then?

--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca
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Default Water in the basement


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 Aug 2011 22:42:19 -0400, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com
wrote:

I have my shop in my basement. It's a small ranch, wish it was a walk out.

Anyway, I have never had water in the basement before this weekend.
It's a finished basement, sheetrock and insulation. Originally for my
son to play in, then it morphed from a small shop to the whole basement.


How'd it get wet?


I want to redo the bottom and close it up. Building code here requires
the walls be sealed up.


Excavate around the building, pressure-wash and dry, seal with
paint-on membrane or use EDPM, whatever code approves in your area.
Insulate it while you're there, too.


And do a walk-out then?


If you are in a frost area, adding a walk out requires that you underpin the
footings down to the newly created frost line, otherwise the frost will be
in the walkout area and could cause the foundation to heave/buckle.

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On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 05:42:45 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:

Anyway, I have never had water in the basement before this weekend. It's
a finished basement, sheetrock and insulation. Originally for my son to
play in, then it morphed from a small shop to the whole basement.


How'd it get wet?


Irene????

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw


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On 9/1/2011 6:34 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 8/31/2011 10:42 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
I have my shop in my basement. It's a small ranch, wish it was a walk
out.

Anyway, I have never had water in the basement before this weekend.

[...]

Anyone know of a good choice for the bottom of the wall?


Never mind *that*.

What you need to do *first* is find out how and why the water got in,
and fix *that* problem. If it was only a little bit of seepage, applying
a waterproofing paint such as Dry-Lok to the inside of the wall may be
sufficient. If it was a lot, and it was flowing, not seeping, you may
need to install perimeter drains and waterproof the foundation on the
outside.

Regardless, you need to examine your rainwater drainage:
- Is the ground immediately next to your house sloped to drain surface
water away from the foundation, or does it allow water to pool next to
the foundation (or worse, drain toward it)?
- Do the downspouts from your gutters have extensions that direct
rainwater some distance away from the foundation before dumping it on
the ground? Five or six feet is good. Ten inches is not.
- Have you checked your gutters and downspouts to make sure they're not
clogged? In a heavy rain, an overflowing gutter can dump an amazing
amount of water right next to the foundation.
- Are your gutters and downspouts large enough to handle a heavy rain?
Do you have enough downspouts? If water can't get out of the gutter
system at least as fast as it comes in, you're going to have an overflow
somewhere.


Also, if your downspouts go into the ground, they likely go into drain
pipe that wraps around the perimeter of the house and connects 2 or more
drains. This pipe can leak, and cause all your problems.

Unless your area was flooded, or you can visibly see gutter problems, it
would be a good idea to stick a hose in the downspouts for at least 1
1/2 hours and see if water starts coming in. If it does, your problem
should be an easy and cheap fix. If not, you have to find out what
caused the problem, and stop it. The best way is keep the water away
from your foundation, the worst way is to try to make your basement a
waterproof swimming pool.

The overwhelming majority of water in basement problems is from one or
more of the above causes.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
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"tiredofspam" wrote in message
...

I have my shop in my basement. It's a small ranch, wish it was a walk out.

Anyway, I have never had water in the basement before this weekend.
It's a finished basement, sheetrock and insulation. Originally for my
son to play in, then it morphed from a small shop to the whole basement.

Well I have ripped out the bottom of the walls and glass batts to stop
the mold. I am airing out, and thanks to a moisture meter, I can tell
I'm doing better. It will take a while.. Some of it I didn't get to
until today. That was very moldy..


I want to redo the bottom and close it up. Building code here requires
the walls be sealed up.

What to do. Sheetrock and fiberglass batts again..

Or something that won't soak up the moisture and require ripping apart.
If it happened once, it can again.

Anyone know of a good choice for the bottom of the wall?

That will promote drying, not be a sponge, and not mold over easily. I
have cut out the bottom 8" to promote the drying further up... I might
have to cut some areas out completely, but 8" seems to be working. The
wet stuff higher up is drying out mostly.

Most all my tools survived unscathed.. I haven't looked under the
jointer, bandsaw.. to see if they are rusting out the bottom...

Some wood was damaged, my new bench was damaged by dirty water. It was a
piece of furniture, now its just a workbench.. (well it always was a
workbench, it just looked so good before the dirty water stained the legs.
=============================

It doesn't matter what you put on the walls the insulation will have to be
ripped out if it happens again.

Fix the source and then redo the walls with normal drywall again.

If you can't sleuth and logic the problem out get an expert. This problem
will cost you big bucks and you need to solve it properly.


--

Eric

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In article ,
says...

"tiredofspam" wrote in message
...

I have my shop in my basement. It's a small ranch, wish it was a walk out.

Anyway, I have never had water in the basement before this weekend.
It's a finished basement, sheetrock and insulation. Originally for my
son to play in, then it morphed from a small shop to the whole basement.

Well I have ripped out the bottom of the walls and glass batts to stop
the mold. I am airing out, and thanks to a moisture meter, I can tell
I'm doing better. It will take a while.. Some of it I didn't get to
until today. That was very moldy..


I want to redo the bottom and close it up. Building code here requires
the walls be sealed up.

What to do. Sheetrock and fiberglass batts again..

Or something that won't soak up the moisture and require ripping apart.
If it happened once, it can again.

Anyone know of a good choice for the bottom of the wall?

That will promote drying, not be a sponge, and not mold over easily. I
have cut out the bottom 8" to promote the drying further up... I might
have to cut some areas out completely, but 8" seems to be working. The
wet stuff higher up is drying out mostly.

Most all my tools survived unscathed.. I haven't looked under the
jointer, bandsaw.. to see if they are rusting out the bottom...

Some wood was damaged, my new bench was damaged by dirty water. It was a
piece of furniture, now its just a workbench.. (well it always was a
workbench, it just looked so good before the dirty water stained the legs.
=============================

It doesn't matter what you put on the walls the insulation will have to be
ripped out if it happens again.

Fix the source and then redo the walls with normal drywall again.

If you can't sleuth and logic the problem out get an expert. This problem
will cost you big bucks and you need to solve it properly.


I'm not sure that there's a whole lot one can do about "fixing"
hurricanes.


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Bingo. The ground here is so soaked from all the rain in August, that
this just exacerbated the situation. I had no power so the sump pump
wouldn't run. When I finally got the generator set up and going, my feet
were ankle deep in mud outside. My 2 volleyball courts with poles over
2 feet down, and 160 pounds of cement on each pole could be moved
easily. The ground was supersaturated.

I don't need to investigate. 12 years not one problem. One wet August
and Irene.... problem.

On 9/1/2011 12:54 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 05:42:45 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:

Anyway, I have never had water in the basement before this weekend. It's
a finished basement, sheetrock and insulation. Originally for my son to
play in, then it morphed from a small shop to the whole basement.


How'd it get wet?


Irene????

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"tiredofspam" wrote

I want to redo the bottom and close it up. Building code here requires
the walls be sealed up.

What to do. Sheetrock and fiberglass batts again..

Or something that won't soak up the moisture and require ripping apart.
If it happened once, it can again.



Cut about 2 1/2" off the bottom of all of the studs, after supporting the
studs by fastening them to the wall higher up. I leave that to your
imagination.

Replace the bottom plate with a treated 2x4, but it should now leave 2 1/2'
air space below the bottom plate. Use plastic commercial baseboard, with
the bottom of it caulked to the floor, and a groove cut in the floor will
help the caulk grab more strongly, and make the air space under the wall
pretty much water tight.

At each end of the wall, make a hole for a shop vac hose right down on the
floor. When it floods, you can hook the vac up leave it running 24/7 and
suck the water up when it is first noticed, and keep it off of the floor.
The air being moved though the space while the vac is running will also dry
the moisture up quickly after it stops coming in.

There was once a commercial product like this that told you to drill a small
hole into each core of the blocks, so water would drain to the baseboard,
then around the outside into a sump pump or gravity drain. My parents used
it long ago, and it worked pretty well.

-- Jim in NC



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On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 21:58:32 -0400, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com
wrote:

Bingo. The ground here is so soaked from all the rain in August, that
this just exacerbated the situation. I had no power so the sump pump
wouldn't run. When I finally got the generator set up and going, my feet
were ankle deep in mud outside. My 2 volleyball courts with poles over
2 feet down, and 160 pounds of cement on each pole could be moved
easily. The ground was supersaturated.


Wow, I guess so!


I don't need to investigate. 12 years not one problem. One wet August
and Irene.... problem.


OK, you probably don't need to do the trenching and insu, but consider
it anyway. It will keep you from having the problem again, it will
make your basement drier and comfy all the time, and it will save you
some on your heating bills.

--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca
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What was the cause of the water in the basement?

If it was inundated by the storm, for instance, that is a different
sort of problem from a "damp/wet" basement.

My issue seemed to be seepage (we are on the middle of a hill and our
basement is a full eight foot deep and was -likely- never properly
sealed on the outside of the concrete block) so I started with DRY-LOK
on the walls. I am doing it in stages ($100/bucket for DRY-LOC) and
finished a second section this year.

We experience damp floors in high humidity during the hottest Summer
days. This leads me to (hope) surmise the moisture may be atmospheric
- humidity interacting with the much cooler concrete floor - rather
than ground water seepage up through the slab.

When applying the DRY-LOC onto the second section, the wife put on a
thinner coating than had I on the other walls. WE noticed dampness and
mold forming. I re-applied a bleach solution and re-coated that
section the other day with a thick coating and hope that will do it.

The entire basement is damp - evidence rusting on steel tools, sander
belts that snap apart on first use (after storage down there) and, of
course, the moist floor.

There was carpeting on the rear area of the flooring and it did not
appear damp on its surface. But, when I removed it to paint the DRY-
LOC, the concrete started to appear wet when the heat and humidity
increased.

Anything made of wood that is closed up or setting on the floor, shows
evidence of mold - especially where there is no air circulation
(inside my wooden tool boxes, for instance).

A couple of years ago we had two basement specialists come and advise
a trench would need to be dug about the foundation and drainage pipe
and a pump installed to achieve a warranted solution at about
$12,000.00.

My approach will be to continue with the DRY-LOC until all the wall
surfaces are thickly coated and see if there is any change. My idea is
to isolate/insulate the cooler concrete floor from the moist/humid air
with vinyl flooring and, finally, air-conditioning using portable
units as there are but three very small windows in the one end of the
1500 sf basement - no where near enough.

One idea I had was to install ducting from the window-less rear up
through the walls into the attic upon the assumption that the air
would rise up through these ducts/vents via natural convection and
this would afford air movement and help remove moisture.

As to the DURA ROCK suggestion, I thought of that as well. It does not
attract/serve as a medium for MOLD (Hardi-plank/Hardi-board is another
product I thought of. But, then, I was surprised to see mold form on
the DRY-LOC (As I said, think it was not a full coat) and hope the
second coating will fix this issue.

I have heard that raw fiberglass insulation does not support mold
growth - that is the paper backing that does support mold growth. If
anyone has a source to confirm or disabuse me of this notion -
welcome.

Bottom line is that you have to get to the source of the moisture and
fix that first. Then you can consider re-building and the best
moisture-resistant (non-organic) materials for that task.

For one, I will continue reading this thread in hopes of learning what
might be available!

Good luck.




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Lay some plastic material to seal the floor against room air humidity
condensation and look under it after a week once your immediate problem is
cleared up.

------------

"Hoosierpopi" wrote in message
...
We experience damp floors in high humidity during the hottest Summer
days. This leads me to (hope) surmise the moisture may be atmospheric
- humidity interacting with the much cooler concrete floor - rather
than ground water seepage up through the slab.



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On 9/2/2011 10:07 PM, Hoosierpopi wrote:
What was the cause of the water in the basement?

If it was inundated by the storm, for instance, that is a different
sort of problem from a "damp/wet" basement.


I'll say. Bit of difference between a flood and some rain.

My issue seemed to be seepage (we are on the middle of a hill and our
basement is a full eight foot deep and was -likely- never properly
sealed on the outside of the concrete block)


That might be, but if water is kept away from the foundation, it doesn't
matter.

We experience damp floors in high humidity during the hottest Summer
days. This leads me to (hope) surmise the moisture may be atmospheric
- humidity interacting with the much cooler concrete floor - rather
than ground water seepage up through the slab.


If it is just atmospheric, then all you need is air circulation, and
perhaps a dehumidifier if you live in a rain forest. Where are you located?

The entire basement is damp - evidence rusting on steel tools, sander
belts that snap apart on first use (after storage down there) and, of
course, the moist floor.


I had 1/2" if water in my basement every time it rained hard for several
years before I fixed the problem, and I don't recall my sanding belts
breaking?

There was carpeting on the rear area of the flooring and it did not
appear damp on its surface. But, when I removed it to paint the DRY-
LOC, the concrete started to appear wet when the heat and humidity
increased.


That's a lot of humidity I'd think.

A couple of years ago we had two basement specialists come and advise
a trench would need to be dug about the foundation and drainage pipe
and a pump installed to achieve a warranted solution at about
$12,000.00.


They could be right, but that's what they do, so that's always their
solution. Since you live in the middle of a hill, I would dig a trench
a foot deep across the length of the house, put in a drain pipe, fill it
with gravel. That will keep the water away from your foundation, and
would cost next to nothing. I would make SURE it's not roof water first.

Bottom line is that you have to get to the source of the moisture and
fix that first. Then you can consider re-building and the best
moisture-resistant (non-organic) materials for that task.


If it's humidity, it's not a water seepage problem, just condition the
air. If it's water getting around your foundation, you need to stop the
water from getting there. Water around the foundation is either ground
water running toward your house (easy fix), roof water, (easy fix),
water table (unlikely) or natural spring. When I was a kid, the
"experts" told me it was the water table and I needed a $$$ french
drain. He was an idiot, and I told him so. I was, of course, right:-)

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
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