Hi everyone,

Today, I had the most incredibly positive customer service experience
I've ever had, all thanks to Mini Max. I bought their new S16 model
band saw from them, and received it last week. It's the first band saw
I've owned, and of course, I went over it with a fine tooth comb. I
was very impressed by the saw, but I had a small concern about the
table not being totally flat. I had read extensively about what was
important in a band saw, and Lonnie Bird, in THE BAND SAW BOOK states
how important a flat table is. I posted a question here on the forum,
essentially asking how flat is flat, and if my small discrepancy
constituted something worthy of concern. I posted the same question on
a couple other forums, including the Mini Max Users Group on yahoo. A
friend who is a professional woodworker and has extensive bandsaw
experience also came to look at my saw, and his opinion was that it
wasn't something I should worry about too much.

Just so you know, it was .014 inches off in the center, which isn't
much--that's basically 1/64 of an inch. Most people who responded to
me said not to worry about it too much, that it wouldn't matter,
though some did express some concern. All in all, I had pretty much
reached the point where I wasn't going to worry about it.

Here's where the story gets amazing! Today, I received a phone call
from Mini Max. They were calling to offer me a new table. Now, let me
be as clear as I can be: I never once called them about my table! This
phone call today was a complete surprise to me. Calling me to offer me
a new table when I never complained to them? Now THAT'S customer
service! All I did was post some questions on the web, simply trying
to figure out if I should call them or not, and was leaning towards
not worrying about it. The guys at Mini Max must keep tabs on the
online forums regarding their products, and clearly they want their
customers happy. They had enough information I guess to figure out who
I was, based on when I received the saw, and decided to take care of
the situation, a situation which I'd pretty much decided wasn't a
situation anyway.

I received a call from one of the techs there at Mini Max, and he had
personally checked the new table for flatness for me, and it is
flatter than the current table I have. But get this: my table, with a
..014" sag is within the manufacturer's tolerances! This is a perfectly
acceptable table from the manufacturer's point of view and so Mini Max
is under no obligation whatsoever to send me a new table. Yet that's
what they're doing, and they're sending it out tomorrow.

I am still in a state of shock. In today's world, I think we tend to
expect the worst from businesses, since probably for most of us, we've
been burned so many times. After my experience today, all I can say is
that Mini Max is without peer when it comes to keeping their customers
happy. I knew I was getting a great saw--I just didn't expect to be
treated so well after the sale! All I can say is kudos to Mini Max!

That's a great story. I had a similar experience with Lee Valley regarding
a part that I had screwed up during an install, and Robin Lee saw my post,
figured out who I was and sent me the part. He did email me first and I
told him that it was my fault and don't worry about it. He sent the part
anyway hehe.

So, one question - if the table you have was satisfactory to you, and within
the Mini Max specs, why did you accept the new table? Seems like a lot of
work to replace the table for not a lot of benefit. Just my opinion.

Thanks for the story, I'll definitely keep MM in mind when I'm able to
afford an upgrade to my bandsaw.

Mike

Well, to answer your question as to why I decided to go with the new
table, basically, I did have some initial concern which after awhile
was lessened. Though, it's one of those things where I was still
asking myself if I should do something about it or not. When they
offered to send me a flatter table, I decided to deal with the
momentary trouble of changing the table out (which I'm not necessarily
looking forward to doing), since with the flatter table, I'll know
that if anything's amiss in my cutting, it's gonna be operator error!
(Which would probably be most likely anyway!) Basically, since they
offered, and I had enough original concern to post something about it,
I decided to take them up on their offer.

"Mike in Mystic" wrote in message ...
That's a great story. I had a similar experience with Lee Valley regarding
a part that I had screwed up during an install, and Robin Lee saw my post,
figured out who I was and sent me the part. He did email me first and I
told him that it was my fault and don't worry about it. He sent the part
anyway hehe.

So, one question - if the table you have was satisfactory to you, and within
the Mini Max specs, why did you accept the new table? Seems like a lot of
work to replace the table for not a lot of benefit. Just my opinion.

Thanks for the story, I'll definitely keep MM in mind when I'm able to
afford an upgrade to my bandsaw.

Mike

I have a MM16, which came with a deep scratch (right from the factory in
italy). The table was workable, but Rob Taylor, from cutomer service Fed Exed
me a new table. Now I grant you, all things should be perfect, but of course,
when you ship stuff across the ocean, some things can go bad. So it show you
fix things up right that count.

I've also gotten to know Jim Strain, who runs the company in Texas. He is a
really good guy, who knows his product. The saw itself is simply superb.

By the way, changin the table took about 30 minutes, plus a bit more to make
sure the table was sqaure to the blade. Do it once, and you get to know a lot
about the saws anatomy. Heavy and stong.

Changing out the table isn't that big of a deal. In fact, doing so will give
you another level of appreciation for how well-made the saw is. And your story
doesn't surprise me at all; I've dealt with Eric and Jim from MiniMax on
several occasions and those guys fully understand both their products and how
to make their customers more than happy.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, change the chemical designation to its common name.

Glad to hear that changing out the table shouldn't be too hard. After
deciding to change it, I started worrying about "messing with it,"
with the fear that though I might have a perfectly flat table, I'd
have a saw that was off kilter in some other way. I'm sure it'll take
a little finagling, but hopefully I can have the same kinda luck as
you guys.

Tbone:

Was the table mounted on the trunions when you checked it?

Rich
"Tbone Dano" wrote in message
om...
Hi everyone,

Today, I had the most incredibly positive customer service experience
I've ever had, all thanks to Mini Max. I bought their new S16 model
band saw from them, and received it last week. It's the first band saw
I've owned, and of course, I went over it with a fine tooth comb. I
was very impressed by the saw, but I had a small concern about the
table not being totally flat. I had read extensively about what was
important in a band saw, and Lonnie Bird, in THE BAND SAW BOOK states
how important a flat table is. I posted a question here on the forum,
essentially asking how flat is flat, and if my small discrepancy
constituted something worthy of concern. I posted the same question on
a couple other forums, including the Mini Max Users Group on yahoo. A
friend who is a professional woodworker and has extensive bandsaw
experience also came to look at my saw, and his opinion was that it
wasn't something I should worry about too much.

Just so you know, it was .014 inches off in the center, which isn't
much--that's basically 1/64 of an inch. Most people who responded to
me said not to worry about it too much, that it wouldn't matter,
though some did express some concern. All in all, I had pretty much
reached the point where I wasn't going to worry about it.

Here's where the story gets amazing! Today, I received a phone call
from Mini Max. They were calling to offer me a new table. Now, let me
be as clear as I can be: I never once called them about my table! This
phone call today was a complete surprise to me. Calling me to offer me
a new table when I never complained to them? Now THAT'S customer
service! All I did was post some questions on the web, simply trying
to figure out if I should call them or not, and was leaning towards
not worrying about it. The guys at Mini Max must keep tabs on the
online forums regarding their products, and clearly they want their
customers happy. They had enough information I guess to figure out who
I was, based on when I received the saw, and decided to take care of
the situation, a situation which I'd pretty much decided wasn't a
situation anyway.

I received a call from one of the techs there at Mini Max, and he had
personally checked the new table for flatness for me, and it is
flatter than the current table I have. But get this: my table, with a
.014" sag is within the manufacturer's tolerances! This is a perfectly
acceptable table from the manufacturer's point of view and so Mini Max
is under no obligation whatsoever to send me a new table. Yet that's
what they're doing, and they're sending it out tomorrow.

I am still in a state of shock. In today's world, I think we tend to
expect the worst from businesses, since probably for most of us, we've
been burned so many times. After my experience today, all I can say is
that Mini Max is without peer when it comes to keeping their customers
happy. I knew I was getting a great saw--I just didn't expect to be
treated so well after the sale! All I can say is kudos to Mini Max!

RKON wrote:

Tbone:

Was the table mounted on the trunions when you checked it?


Very good point. Could be that the trunion is the cause.
Sometimes shimming will take out the sag, depending on
where it attaches to the bottom of the table and how
bad the sag is.

Another thing to be aware of is that cast iron has cooling
stresses in it, thin areas shrinking faster than thicker
adjacent areas. Much of these cooling stresses are relieved
naturally over time. They use to leave cast iron engine blocks
sit for several months before precision milling and boring.

If they surface ground your table back to flat and took off
more than needed the table could deform again over the
next several months. Check the depth of the miter/mitre
slot on the old table against the depth on the relacement
table. If the latter was remilled/reground it's depth will
be shallower by the amount removed. Sometimes they
take off a lot more metal than necessary just to make
sure they get the surface flat quickly (two passes rather
than four means less time checking where they're at)

On the older Laguna Tools bandsaw tables, the miter
slot is a sliding dovetail. After Jim Stain (who was at
LT befo going to MiniMax) had a replacement table ground
flat for me my miter gauge bar saw too high to use.

Just something to think about (and worry about?)

Checking things out and setting equiptment/machines up
can get out of hand. Getting things where they're not
dangerous and good enough to do their job is probably
close enough for what most of us use them for.

charlie b

Thanks for the further thoughts. To answer RKON's question, yes, it
was attached to the trunnions. Part of me has had second thoughts
about changing the table, even though they're sending me a new one.
This new table they're sending me wasn't reground flat--this is one
which came from the factory flatter than my table. But something I've
been thinking about is whether it's best just to leave it well enough
alone. Changing out the table sounds like a major hassle to improve
the flatness by .007 inches! And there's the possibility of it being
a fickle change, where I need to sit and tweak the darn thing for
hours to get everything lined up... Still debating on whether or not
to change it out--I'll have to decide when the new table arrives.

Tbone Dano wrote:

snip

Changing out the table sounds like a major hassle to improve
the flatness by .007 inches! And there's the possibility of it being
a fickle change, where I need to sit and tweak the darn thing for
hours to get everything lined up... Still debating on whether or not
to change it out--I'll have to decide when the new table arrives.

The table is probably held onto the trunion with four bolts so
other than handling the table's weight getting it off and a
new one on, it's no big deal. You will need to check and
perhaps reset the 90 degree stop but that's no big deal
either.

At some point you'll probably make a larger add on table
and fence. Here's one based on one from an American
Woodworker article.

http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/...leDetails.html

charlie b

Tbone:


If you do switch them. Gauge the original table while it is not mounted.
Also, check the new table before and compare them. I'm just curious. I would
assume that there is some slight difference.
Either way, you have a great saw and have had great service. Enjoy !!!

Rich.



"Tbone Dano" wrote in message
om...
Thanks for the further thoughts. To answer RKON's question, yes, it
was attached to the trunnions. Part of me has had second thoughts
about changing the table, even though they're sending me a new one.
This new table they're sending me wasn't reground flat--this is one
which came from the factory flatter than my table. But something I've
been thinking about is whether it's best just to leave it well enough
alone. Changing out the table sounds like a major hassle to improve
the flatness by .007 inches! And there's the possibility of it being
a fickle change, where I need to sit and tweak the darn thing for
hours to get everything lined up... Still debating on whether or not
to change it out--I'll have to decide when the new table arrives.

"RKON" wrote in message news:H1Hrc.64362$iy5.40088@okepread05...
Tbone:


If you do switch them. Gauge the original table while it is not mounted.
Also, check the new table before and compare them. I'm just curious. I would
assume that there is some slight difference.
Either way, you have a great saw and have had great service. Enjoy !!!

Rich.



Will do. Should be getting the new table early next week, and should
have the time to change it late next week--I'll post a follow-up with
the info.

And thanks again to all with your comments!