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#1
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Spray painting
20 gallons is enough
"billhum" a écrit dans le message de ... Can someone tell me what minimum size of compressor is needed for spray painting? I would describe myself as a serious amateur and the machine would be used for the occaisonal spray painting of laquer in a domestic workshop. Perhaps there is a site online with information: I would be pleased to know its address. Thanks, Billhum |
#2
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Spray painting
Can someone tell me what minimum size of compressor is needed for spray
painting? I would describe myself as a serious amateur and the machine would be used for the occaisonal spray painting of laquer in a domestic workshop. Perhaps there is a site online with information: I would be pleased to know its address. Thanks, Billhum |
#3
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Spray painting
I suggest you look into HVLP. If you aren't using airtools, HVLP does a
better job and avoids lots of problems with oil and water in the air supply. There have been MANY posts, so do some searching. Wilson "billhum" wrote in message ... Can someone tell me what minimum size of compressor is needed for spray painting? I would describe myself as a serious amateur and the machine would be used for the occaisonal spray painting of laquer in a domestic workshop. Perhaps there is a site online with information: I would be pleased to know its address. Thanks, Billhum |
#4
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Spray painting
billhum wrote:
Can someone tell me what minimum size of compressor is needed for spray painting? I would describe myself as a serious amateur and the machine would be used for the occaisonal spray painting of laquer in a domestic workshop. Perhaps there is a site online with information: I would be pleased to know its address. Hmmmm... minimum size, huh? Tough question to answer. Bigger is better though so buy the biggest you can afford and have room for. It really depends on your useage though. Spray painting covers a big area of concerns. You will need to figure out what type of spray equipment you'll be using, what types of materials you'll eventually be spraying, what anicllary type of equipment you may use. I have a 5HP, 30gal single stage compressor in my garage and I use it for everything from air wrenches (plenty sufficient, though I do wish I could get more psi out of it), to DA's for body work (not nearly sufficient for this), to spray painting cars (plenty sufficient for this - both single stage paints and base/clear coat), and assorted other less demanding tasks. Capacity and Cubic Feet Per Minute (CFM) are the two ratings you'll be concerned for. 8-9 CFM will be ok for almost any gun (I use DeVilbiss and Binks guns) and 30 gal is enough capacity for that also. For general woodworking this is certainly plenty of compressor. If you're like me and you do lots of other things than woodworking and need a compressor that does it all, I'd be looking at a two stage unit with 60 gals of capacity and over 10CFM of delivery rate. -- -Mike- |
#5
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Spray painting
Your answer will be printed on the box or the information about the
particular gun you want to buy, if the gun is half way decent. "billhum" wrote in message ... Can someone tell me what minimum size of compressor is needed for spray painting? I would describe myself as a serious amateur and the machine would be used for the occaisonal spray painting of laquer in a domestic workshop. Perhaps there is a site online with information: I would be pleased to know its address. Thanks, Billhum |
#6
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Spray painting
I agree with Wilson. If you have the bucks, get an HVLP. A conversion
gun requires a fair sized compressor with lots of CFM. Then you have to filter the air of moisture and oil vapor. If you get an oilless pump they are noisy as hell and may have a short life. The oil type compressors will develop more and more blow-by as they age, leading to substantial oil vapor which may require 2 filter stages to remove it before the spray gun. dave billhum wrote: Can someone tell me what minimum size of compressor is needed for spray painting? I would describe myself as a serious amateur and the machine would be used for the occaisonal spray painting of laquer in a domestic workshop. Perhaps there is a site online with information: I would be pleased to know its address. Thanks, Billhum |
#7
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Spray painting
Unless you are also looking to add a compressor to your tool inventory for
other uses I'd suggest a HVLP system. I've heard good things about the under $100 units sold by Harbor Freight and Rocklers. They're not as, well, as robust, as the more expensive units but will spray common stains and sprays well and would certainly accommodate the work of a someone doing occasional spraying. Note; I don't consider latex paint as a common stain or finish and would have doubts about spraying latex with one of them. My apologies to those who do paint most of their work but that's just the way I feel about it. -- Mike G. Heirloom Woods www.heirloom-woods.net "billhum" wrote in message ... Can someone tell me what minimum size of compressor is needed for spray painting? I would describe myself as a serious amateur and the machine would be used for the occaisonal spray painting of laquer in a domestic workshop. Perhaps there is a site online with information: I would be pleased to know its address. Thanks, Billhum |
#8
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Spray painting
Can someone tell me what minimum size of compressor is needed for spray
painting? I would describe myself as a serious amateur and the machine would be used for the occaisonal spray painting of laquer in a domestic workshop. The compressor requirements will vary with the gun you choose. Typically, a 110v 15 amp compressor with 20-30 gallon tank will be ok, and has the advantage of being able to be used for other tools. Something like the PC 6025 or similar units will do the job (oil lube and cast iron cylinders are much quieter). Others have mentioned turbine units as an alternative to compressors. I've done some research myself over the last few weeks, and the consensus seems to be that turbine units can be a problem with lacquer due to their hot air delivery, which continues to get hotter the more the unit is on. An air compressor with an inline water/oil filter seems easier to deal with, and the choice of non-turbine guns much greater. Here's a few good online sources of information. http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/ph...c261c0007baca6 http://www.targetcoatings.com/msgboard.html http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forums/finishing.pl http://www.woodfinishingsupplies.com/forum_frm.htm |
#9
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Spray painting
talk to a guy who sprays lacquer on vehicles for a living a see what he
thinks about the PITA that moisture in the air delivery systems causes. I know that cars are painted with water based products, but lacquer is also used. They resort to copper lines placed in dry ice to condensate the moisture out. or they go the big bucks route and buy various driers. the effective ones are expensive; not your garden variety $30 gizmo from Campbell Hausfeld or HF. Lacquer and moisture in the inlet air don't make for a fine finish. you can always add retarder if spraying on a hot day with a HVLP, and the air isn't hot right away anyway. For small projects it's no big deal. I'll easily deal with HVLP hot air as opposed to moisture/oil laden compressed air. dave mp wrote: Can someone tell me what minimum size of compressor is needed for spray painting? I would describe myself as a serious amateur and the machine would be used for the occaisonal spray painting of laquer in a domestic workshop. The compressor requirements will vary with the gun you choose. Typically, a 110v 15 amp compressor with 20-30 gallon tank will be ok, and has the advantage of being able to be used for other tools. Something like the PC 6025 or similar units will do the job (oil lube and cast iron cylinders are much quieter). Others have mentioned turbine units as an alternative to compressors. I've done some research myself over the last few weeks, and the consensus seems to be that turbine units can be a problem with lacquer due to their hot air delivery, which continues to get hotter the more the unit is on. An air compressor with an inline water/oil filter seems easier to deal with, and the choice of non-turbine guns much greater. Here's a few good online sources of information. http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/ph...c261c0007baca6 http://www.targetcoatings.com/msgboard.html http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forums/finishing.pl http://www.woodfinishingsupplies.com/forum_frm.htm |
#10
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Spray painting
I have been using a 2 HP sears compressor for twenty years now for spraying
furniture grade laquer/sealer etc and some paint . I don't have any fancy smancy HVLP guns just a small devilbiss touchup gun [suction cup] a smilar quart cup gun and a pressure pot gun . Never had a water problem, tank is drained regularly nor oil problems. the one drawback is a 2 HP compressor will not run anything but guns and a bradnailer .Even the brad nailer was a problem because my compressor runs on 220 volts and hauling it around is exhausting and then one still has to find a 220 outlet . My solution to this problem for jobs offsite is a 20 gallon air tank charged to 100psi will run a brad nailer for a couple of hours at least . If you are working in the sticks and run out of pressure then just get the tank recharged at the nearest gas station......mjh "billhum" wrote in message ... Can someone tell me what minimum size of compressor is needed for spray painting? I would describe myself as a serious amateur and the machine would be used for the occaisonal spray painting of laquer in a domestic workshop. Perhaps there is a site online with information: I would be pleased to know its address. Thanks, Billhum |
#11
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Spray painting
talk to a guy who sprays lacquer on vehicles for a living a see what he
thinks about the PITA that moisture in the air delivery systems causes. Do you know of any autobody painters using turbines to spray lacquer? I'm under the impression that most of them use compressed air. If it's such a PITA, then why do they use it? I know that cars are painted with water based products, but lacquer is also used. They resort to copper lines placed in dry ice to condensate the moisture out. or they go the big bucks route and buy various driers. the effective ones are expensive; not your garden variety $30 gizmo from Campbell Hausfeld or HF. Lacquer and moisture in the inlet air don't make for a fine finish. Home woodfinishing isn't quite the same as painting cars in a production environment. My garden variety moisture filter ($20) seems to work just fine. I've just finished lacquering a kitchen and the finish is perfect, moisture/oil contamination wasn't an issue. you can always add retarder if spraying on a hot day with a HVLP, and the air isn't hot right away anyway. For small projects it's no big deal. An issue with adding retarder to compensate for turbine heat buildup is that the temperature gets hotter the more you use the turbine, which changes the required amount of retarder. I'd imagine this would vary quite a bit depending on the make and model of turbine. May not be an issue with some, a serious issue with others. The advice I got from several respected sources was to steer clear of turbines and go with either compressed air or airless. The good airless units (Kremlin airmix, etc.) were out of my price range so I chose compressed air. I'll easily deal with HVLP hot air as opposed to moisture/oil laden compressed air. You make it sound scary, "moisture/oil laden" air. It's not that bad, really. It's a small issue that's easily taken care of. |
#12
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Spray painting
Bay Area Dave wrote:
talk to a guy who sprays lacquer on vehicles for a living a see what he thinks about the PITA that moisture in the air delivery systems causes. I know that cars are painted with water based products, but lacquer is also used. They resort to copper lines placed in dry ice to condensate the moisture out. or they go the big bucks route and buy various driers. the effective ones are expensive; not your garden variety $30 gizmo from Campbell Hausfeld or HF. Lacquer and moisture in the inlet air don't make for a fine finish. you can always add retarder if spraying on a hot day with a HVLP, and the air isn't hot right away anyway. For small projects it's no big deal. I'll easily deal with HVLP hot air as opposed to moisture/oil laden compressed air. Not to argue with your points Dave but to do justice to the original question, I spray with a basic compressor and a simple moisture trap all of the time. As I mentioned in my earlier reply, I spray cars as well as woodworking. With any compressor, it is essential to drain the water out of the tank before beginning a spray job as all compressors will build up water in the tank as a by product of comression. I also use a water trap at the gun - one of those orange round things you see at NAPA or any other auto parts store. I keep it on the gun no matter what I'm spraying. It's good for a lot - a ton of spraying before it needs to be replaced. I only say all of this to counter the suggestion that a basic air compressor is inadequate for HVLP techniques or poses some unique or expensive problems. -- -Mike- dave mp wrote: Can someone tell me what minimum size of compressor is needed for spray painting? I would describe myself as a serious amateur and the machine would be used for the occaisonal spray painting of laquer in a domestic workshop. |
#13
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Spray painting
guess you haven't been around compressors enough in a work environment.
IT IS scary! A brand new compressor will run pretty clean. give it a few years, and then get back to me. I've worked with MANY compressed air systems. One place I worked, first thing in the morning we'd get nothing but water out of the system if the designated employee forget to keep up with moisture drainage each day. It was like turning on a faucet instead of using compressed air; and that was just overnight, in CA where humidity is around 50 - 70 percent. If you find it's not a problem, then it's NOT a problem! Since you claim you'll not be in a "production" environment, why all the talk about hot turbine air? It takes a while to heat up. You could spray an entire piece of furniture inside and out and the air isn't gonna be hot. So I say you are making a big deal out of a non-issue. On the other hand if it takes you 1/2 an hour to spray, then yes, it will get warm. I don't know if autobody sprayers use HVLP currently. My guess is they do. My earlier comments were about what happens when they DON'T. I worked in the automotive industry for 16 years and spent some time discussing their problems. YOu can believe what I said or not. If YOUR experience is compressors are hunky-dory and HVLP sucks, do what floats your boat. dave mp wrote: talk to a guy who sprays lacquer on vehicles for a living a see what he thinks about the PITA that moisture in the air delivery systems causes. Do you know of any autobody painters using turbines to spray lacquer? I'm under the impression that most of them use compressed air. If it's such a PITA, then why do they use it? I know that cars are painted with water based products, but lacquer is also used. They resort to copper lines placed in dry ice to condensate the moisture out. or they go the big bucks route and buy various driers. the effective ones are expensive; not your garden variety $30 gizmo from Campbell Hausfeld or HF. Lacquer and moisture in the inlet air don't make for a fine finish. Home woodfinishing isn't quite the same as painting cars in a production environment. My garden variety moisture filter ($20) seems to work just fine. I've just finished lacquering a kitchen and the finish is perfect, moisture/oil contamination wasn't an issue. you can always add retarder if spraying on a hot day with a HVLP, and the air isn't hot right away anyway. For small projects it's no big deal. An issue with adding retarder to compensate for turbine heat buildup is that the temperature gets hotter the more you use the turbine, which changes the required amount of retarder. I'd imagine this would vary quite a bit depending on the make and model of turbine. May not be an issue with some, a serious issue with others. The advice I got from several respected sources was to steer clear of turbines and go with either compressed air or airless. The good airless units (Kremlin airmix, etc.) were out of my price range so I chose compressed air. I'll easily deal with HVLP hot air as opposed to moisture/oil laden compressed air. You make it sound scary, "moisture/oil laden" air. It's not that bad, really. It's a small issue that's easily taken care of. |
#14
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Spray painting
can't argue with your experience Mike. but not all compressed air
systems are as clean as the next one. That is what my point was. I did note earlier than a new compressor is fairly oil free and of course the moisture is dependent on humidity, temp, compressed air temp (a 2 stage is much better for preventing moisture formation than a 1 stage). Your filter that works for you may NOT prevent contamination in another shop's air system. Been there, done that. dave Mike Marlow wrote: Bay Area Dave wrote: talk to a guy who sprays lacquer on vehicles for a living a see what he thinks about the PITA that moisture in the air delivery systems causes. I know that cars are painted with water based products, but lacquer is also used. They resort to copper lines placed in dry ice to condensate the moisture out. or they go the big bucks route and buy various driers. the effective ones are expensive; not your garden variety $30 gizmo from Campbell Hausfeld or HF. Lacquer and moisture in the inlet air don't make for a fine finish. you can always add retarder if spraying on a hot day with a HVLP, and the air isn't hot right away anyway. For small projects it's no big deal. I'll easily deal with HVLP hot air as opposed to moisture/oil laden compressed air. Not to argue with your points Dave but to do justice to the original question, I spray with a basic compressor and a simple moisture trap all of the time. As I mentioned in my earlier reply, I spray cars as well as woodworking. With any compressor, it is essential to drain the water out of the tank before beginning a spray job as all compressors will build up water in the tank as a by product of comression. I also use a water trap at the gun - one of those orange round things you see at NAPA or any other auto parts store. I keep it on the gun no matter what I'm spraying. It's good for a lot - a ton of spraying before it needs to be replaced. I only say all of this to counter the suggestion that a basic air compressor is inadequate for HVLP techniques or poses some unique or expensive problems. |
#15
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Spray painting
"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message One place I worked, first thing in the morning we'd get nothing but water out of the system if the designated employee forget to keep up with moisture drainage each day. It was like turning on a faucet instead of using compressed air; and that was just overnight, in CA where humidity is around 50 - 70 percent. If you find it's not a problem, then it's NOT a problem! I know of a Navy ship where they thought a line was mis-labeled as the only thing out of it was water. They drained about 60 gallons before they got air to flow. At work we has a similar thing with water in the lines. Gummed up everything. We eventually put in a chiller and filter systems for clean dry air. Instead of cleaning pneumatics a few times a day, it is now a few times a year. For spraying paint dry air is a must. Ed |
#16
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Spray painting
Do you know of any auto body painters using turbines to spray lacquer? I'm under the impression that most of them use compressed air. If it's such a PITA, then why do they use it? That is pretty much a no brainer. Body shops have a thousand and one uses for compressors, BIG compressors, everything from lifts to presses, to tools. I'd go so far as to say you could not run a commercial body shop without a big compressor. Now, if you already have a compressor why buy a turbine HVLP unit when a simple moisture trap and filter, also already in place to take care of any compressor induced spraying problems -- Mike G. Heirloom Woods www.heirloom-woods.net |
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