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opinion on craftsman router
I've been reading some of the posts on routers and was a little confused.
I've just started investing some money on tools and from all accounts, everyone hates craftsman routers. However, most people seem to start off with a craftsman router and then move on to a better model. Is craftsman router the thing a beginner should start with since its relatively inexpensive and later move on to a better model once you've become comfortable and more experienced with wood? or does everyone consider owning a craftsman router a huge mistake and not worth the money whatsoever? thanks... |
#2
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opinion on craftsman router
Ah10201 wrote:
become comfortable and more experienced with wood? or does everyone consider owning a craftsman router a huge mistake and not worth the money whatsoever? I'm not in the "all Crapsman is junk, and only idiots buy Crapsman" camp by any stretch, but my Crapsman router is just about the most useless machine I've ever bought. The big two problems a impossible to keep bit height consistent, due to the bad collet and the bad height setting mechanism; difficult to avoid gouges/digs because the entire motor shaft flexes from side to side a hell of a lot. I can use it if I use it in a table, set the bit height by propping hunks of scrap under it until I get it as close as it's going to get, and then tread very, very lightly feeding the work into the bit, so as to avoid the flex problem. That will sometimes deliver a halfway decent cut with only a few problems. It's a far cry from router magic. I have no idea what else to suggest, since this POS is my only router, but I sure wouldn't want to buy it again. -- Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621 http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/ |
#3
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opinion on craftsman router
Ah10201 wrote:
I've been reading some of the posts on routers and was a little confused. I've just started investing some money on tools and from all accounts, everyone hates craftsman routers. However, most people seem to start off with a craftsman router and then move on to a better model. That's because most people are growing up in/have grown up in a world where they have been deceived by Craftsman's history of quality, i.e., once upon a time... Well, those days are sadly long gone, by a quarter of a century to be semi-specific. Is craftsman router the thing a beginner should start with since its relatively inexpensive and later move on to a better model once you've become comfortable and more experienced with wood? It's a false economy to buy something that won't last and will have to be replaced. The Craftsman router is the best example of this. As for "moving on once you've become more experienced", I think this is the only reason to ever own a Craftsman router. Let me explain. Owning and getting rid of a Craftsman router is a rite of passage. The wooddorking highways are littered with the bodies of these routers. Smarter owners have heeded the advice (advise in wreckspeak) of the wise sage Steve Wallace (do a Google search) and converted their Craftsman router into something useful. or does everyone consider owning a craftsman router a huge mistake and not worth the money whatsoever? Let's put it this way, there was once someone here (name forgotten but I wish someone would go to the archives and unearth this wise man) who made the statement, "When was the last time you took your (insert name of good machine/tool) and threw it against the wall and said, Wish I'd a bought a piece of **** (insert name of good machine/tool) instead of this thing". Save the few extra bucks. Buy the least expensive (non-plunge) router you can afford. Save some more money and buy the best plunge router you can afford. Save some more money and buy the best 3ish horsepower fixed base you can afford. No really. I'm still in the single digits but not by much. UA100 |
#4
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opinion on craftsman router
Bought a crapsman 1 hp router 25 years ago. Features dual stage ARHA (Auto
Random Height Adjustment). The collet is about impossible to get tight enough to hold the bits and you can't tighten the body clamp enough to keep the motor from slowly settling down (a pair of vise grips soon replaced the funky wing nut and bolt, does work much better this way). Add in a lightweight shaft and low quality bearings, the chatter is so bad that cuts of over 1/8" deep are virtually impossible. So anyway, about 3 years ago, Sears gave me a $100 coupon as part of their court ordered settlement with card holders. Nothing I could find to spend it on, so since I was wanting a new router, guess what. Yep, a new 1.5 hp, variable speed followed me home. After 25 years I was glad to see they had kept the dual stage ARHA and the same wimpy shaft and bearings. Bit the bullet a while ago and bought a Hitachi 12V. A world of difference. Find myself using it for everything. -- Bill B. Loveland Colorado www.peakpeak.com/~bberg This keyboard of mine has only one button, which says: Delete Thread. So I ask again: Do you feel lucky? Well do ya, Troll!?! "Ah10201" wrote in message ... I've been reading some of the posts on routers and was a little confused. I've just started investing some money on tools and from all accounts, everyone hates craftsman routers. However, most people seem to start off with a craftsman router and then move on to a better model. Is craftsman router the thing a beginner should start with since its relatively inexpensive and later move on to a better model once you've become comfortable and more experienced with wood? or does everyone consider owning a craftsman router a huge mistake and not worth the money whatsoever? thanks... |
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opinion on craftsman router
Ah10201 wrote:
I've been reading some of the posts on routers and was a little confused. I've just started investing some money on tools and from all accounts, everyone hates craftsman routers. However, most people seem to start off with a craftsman router and then move on to a better model. Is craftsman router the thing a beginner should start with since its relatively inexpensive and later move on to a better model once you've become comfortable and more experienced with wood? or does everyone consider owning a craftsman router a huge mistake and not worth the money whatsoever? thanks... Well - I started one of the most recent threads as I was embarking on my quest to replace my POS Craftsman. To be fair, and as I said in another post, my POS actually did route for a number of years. It did suffer from creep in the collet and ruined more than one piece of wood in the process, but I simply reset the bit, reefed on the collet and routed on. For the most part, it worked. Mine will be taking a hike down the road to my son's house from here since he does not own a router and it will do a job for him as it did for me over the years. These days I'm just increasingly intolerant of fundamental design flaws like the Craftsman router exhibits, and with a wild hair up my butt, some of the other recent POS Craftsman discussions here were all I needed to go out and buy a new router. Some times ya just gotta love those wild hairs. To answer your questions - yes the Craftsman router is a beginner's router. But then again, so is any 1/4in router in my opinion. Today I would not recommend a 1/4in router to anyone who is going out to spend money on their first router - nothing but 1/2in. When I bought my 1/4in router, I was very price sensative - economic realities prevailed at the time. Today, I can be more value focused. It all depends where you are. If you can spend the money then go with the guys that do this stuff well - Makita, DeWalt, Porter Cable, etc.... and of course, anything red... Milwaukee (sigh.....). The only problem I had with buying a Milwaukee router is that they obviously aren't in the router market the way they are in the saw market - very limited product line and packaging options. Owning my POS Craftsman was not a mistake. I made a lot of very nice, very fine items with that router. I wasted a small amount of wood, but I got the job done with that router. I'm giving it to my son this weekend and he'll get a lot of work out of it as well. I suspect we'll have a hand at that collet this weekend before he takes it home - I believe there's a way to make it more stable and we can eliminate that problem area to a very high degree. As for it's inherant limitations as a 1/4in machine - well you just route in more passes. You get to enjoy your tool more that way. It's like any other tool - know your tool's limitations, stay within them, and don't forget to think your way through a project or a problem. Just because you really can't simply load a bit in a router like this and blast your way through a hunk of wood does not make it totally unuseable - it means you have to be very careful in how you use it. Too careful, maybe, but it will work. -- -Mike- |
#7
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opinion on craftsman router
Ah10201 wrote:
However, most people seem to start off with a craftsman router and then move on to a better model. Is craftsman router the thing a beginner should start with since its relatively inexpensive and later move on to a better model once you've become comfortable and more experienced with wood? Some of us remember when Craftsman was a good tool. They have gone down in quality and you won't find real craftsman using them any more. If I knew then what I know now, I never would have owned the Craftsman. Porter Cable, DeWalt, Bosch, Hitachi are good. Visit www.patwarner.com for some good advice and reviews. -- Ed http://pages.cthome.net/edhome |
#8
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opinion on craftsman router
Bought a 15" woodlathe from Sears January 2003 on sale for $350 down from
$699. Sept 2003, the main belt goes. 2 months to repair at a cost to them (they give you the invoice) of $464. Seven parts had crapped out including bearings, etc. Lathe comes back working but noisy as hell. Enough to _have_ to wear ear protection during use! A note on the invoice says the fan needs replacing but the lathe is ok to use. One month later, sure enough the motor seizes (no fan cooling things off obviously). Estimated repair bill $600. They refuse to honor the warranty and the only offer if to refund my $350...unless I'm willing to pay the difference between the $350 and the price of a new one! Sears used to be a good company to deal with. 15 years as an auto and heavy duty mechanic and the worse thing that ever happened was 1 broken socket which was replaced immediately accompanied with profuse apologies. Not any more. I could never understand why so many people were putting Craftsman down. Now I know. Bye bye Sears. Mike Ottawa, Canada "Trees were created out-of-round on purpose to keep all those pesky little woodturners out of mischief !" Interested in Woodturning? Check out http://valleywoodturners.userworld.com/ "Bill B" wrote in message ... Bought a crapsman 1 hp router 25 years ago. Features dual stage ARHA (Auto Random Height Adjustment). The collet is about impossible to get tight enough to hold the bits and you can't tighten the body clamp enough to keep the motor from slowly settling down (a pair of vise grips soon replaced the funky wing nut and bolt, does work much better this way). Add in a lightweight shaft and low quality bearings, the chatter is so bad that cuts of over 1/8" deep are virtually impossible. So anyway, about 3 years ago, Sears gave me a $100 coupon as part of their court ordered settlement with card holders. Nothing I could find to spend it on, so since I was wanting a new router, guess what. Yep, a new 1.5 hp, variable speed followed me home. After 25 years I was glad to see they had kept the dual stage ARHA and the same wimpy shaft and bearings. Bit the bullet a while ago and bought a Hitachi 12V. A world of difference. Find myself using it for everything. -- Bill B. Loveland Colorado www.peakpeak.com/~bberg This keyboard of mine has only one button, which says: Delete Thread. So I ask again: Do you feel lucky? Well do ya, Troll!?! "Ah10201" wrote in message ... I've been reading some of the posts on routers and was a little confused. I've just started investing some money on tools and from all accounts, everyone hates craftsman routers. However, most people seem to start off with a craftsman router and then move on to a better model. Is craftsman router the thing a beginner should start with since its relatively inexpensive and later move on to a better model once you've become comfortable and more experienced with wood? or does everyone consider owning a craftsman router a huge mistake and not worth the money whatsoever? thanks... |
#9
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opinion on craftsman router
A couple of points on department store routers at the
http://www.patwarner.com/faq.html link. ********************************************* I've been reading some of the posts on routers and was a little confused. I've just started investing some money on tools and from all accounts, everyone hates craftsman routers. However, most people seem to start off with a craftsman router and then move on to a better model. Is craftsman router the thing a beginner should start with since its relatively inexpensive and later move on to a better model once you've become comfortable and more experienced with wood? or does everyone consider owning a craftsman router a huge mistake and not worth the money whatsoever? thanks... |
#12
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opinion on craftsman router
You'll get a lot of good advice about avoiding Craftsman.
I have two 40 year old Craftsman Routers that are great. I don't think I would buy a present day one. If I were starting out now, I think I would buy a Porter Cable 690 family, not too heavy, 1/2" or 1/4" chuck, excellent reputation, many years on the market and now available with rariable speed. I have 5 Routers altogether, don't like to change bits. I have such a thing in a Craftsman 12" bandsaw. What a piece of crap I also have 2 - 12" Craftsman Band Saws. They are just as good as the 14" Delta of a friends I used. One key thing with any band saw is adjustment. These are older ones also as was the Delta. Walt Conner |
#13
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opinion on craftsman router
If you want another one, make offer ;-)
"Silvan" wrote in message ... Ah10201 wrote: become comfortable and more experienced with wood? or does everyone consider owning a craftsman router a huge mistake and not worth the money whatsoever? I'm not in the "all Crapsman is junk, and only idiots buy Crapsman" camp by any stretch, but my Crapsman router is just about the most useless machine I've ever bought. The big two problems a impossible to keep bit height consistent, due to the bad collet and the bad height setting mechanism; difficult to avoid gouges/digs because the entire motor shaft flexes from side to side a hell of a lot. I can use it if I use it in a table, set the bit height by propping hunks of scrap under it until I get it as close as it's going to get, and then tread very, very lightly feeding the work into the bit, so as to avoid the flex problem. That will sometimes deliver a halfway decent cut with only a few problems. It's a far cry from router magic. I have no idea what else to suggest, since this POS is my only router, but I sure wouldn't want to buy it again. -- Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621 http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/ |
#14
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opinion on craftsman router
LMAO
Tony D. "Unisaw A100" wrote in message ... "When was the last time you took your (insert name of good machine/tool) and threw it against the wall and said, Wish I'd a bought a piece of **** (insert name of good machine/tool) instead of this thing". UA100 |
#15
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opinion on craftsman router
Why Even F#@K with it??
Tony D. "Mike Marlow" wrote in message link.net... Ah10201 wrote:Snip Owning my POS Craftsman was not a mistake. I made a lot of very nice, very fine items with that router. I wasted a small amount of wood, but I got the job done with that router. I'm giving it to my son this weekend and he'll get a lot of work out of it as well. I suspect we'll have a hand at that collet this weekend before he takes it home - I believe there's a way to make it more stable and we can eliminate that problem area to a very high degree. As for it's inherant limitations as a 1/4in machine - well you just route in more passes. You get to enjoy your tool more that way. It's like any other tool - know your tool's limitations, stay within them, and don't forget to think your way through a project or a problem. Just because you really can't simply load a bit in a router like this and blast your way through a hunk of wood does not make it totally unuseable - it means you have to be very careful in how you use it. Too careful, maybe, but it will work. -- -Mike- |
#16
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opinion on craftsman router
Well Yea, the Old 103.0103 was a good bandsaw
Tony D. "Walt Conner" wrote in message link.net... You'll get a lot of good advice about avoiding Craftsman. I also have 2 - 12" Craftsman Band Saws. They are just as good as the 14" Delta of a friends I used. One key thing with any band saw is adjustment. These are older ones also as was the Delta. Walt Conner |
#17
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opinion on craftsman router
Sat, Feb 28, 2004, 6:45am (EST+5) (Ah10201) scribbles:
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0I've been reading snip =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Is craftsman router the thing snip Depends (a usual fact). I've got one I've used for some years, no prob. However (there always seems to be a "however" too), it's in a router table, I only use a flush trim bit in it, and I don't adjust the height. It does everything I need, and want, it to do. Way I figure, I'd be foolish to replace it as long as it works. And, then when it does stop, I've got 3 more in reserve (I didn't buy any of them), and an additional 1 that just needs a wire soldered to work. Of course (often an "of course" too), I don't expect my routing needs to change either. If that day ever comes, then I may be inclined to shop for another router - depending on what the new need(s) are. As is, I'm considering making another router table - and sticking one of the Craftsmans in it - with a dedicated bit. JOAT Georges Clemenceau supposedly said, "War is too important a matter to be left to the military". If this is so, it is then obvious that peace is too precious to be left to politicians. Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT Web Page Update 28 Feb 2004. Some tunes I like. http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...ESILIKEVOCALS/ |
#18
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opinion on craftsman router
Kicking Craftsman around is the "vogue" thing to do. Many of us have
Craftsman routers and I've had good luck with all 3 of mine. I've had to replace the ball bearings on two of them, and they keep on going. I also have two PC and one Bosch. You can't go too wrong on Craftsman routers. Don't get me wrong... I'm not a Sears fan, I'd not buy any of their items like table saws etc. There is a particular model of PC in a blown plastic carrying case that has a fixed base and a plunge base. I'm pretty happy with this also. If I were you, I'd consider that too. Don Dando "Ah10201" wrote in message ... I've been reading some of the posts on routers and was a little confused. I've just started investing some money on tools and from all accounts, everyone hates craftsman routers. However, most people seem to start off with a craftsman router and then move on to a better model. Is craftsman router the thing a beginner should start with since its relatively inexpensive and later move on to a better model once you've become comfortable and more experienced with wood? or does everyone consider owning a craftsman router a huge mistake and not worth the money whatsoever? thanks... |
#19
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opinion on craftsman router
Don Dando wrote:
very snipped You can't go too wrong on Craftsman routers. I also have a Craftsman router, among others. The last time I attempted to use the Craftsman it was in a table operation routing a 1/4" deep 3/8" dado along an 1/2" thick 18" long board. The bit rode up out of the collet. It's a good thing I noticed the bulge developing in the top of the push block before the bit reached my knuckles. YOU CAN GO WRONG with a Craftsman router. -- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply) |
#20
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opinion on craftsman router
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 21:47:09 -0500, Nova
scribbled: Don Dando wrote: very snipped You can't go too wrong on Craftsman routers. I also have a Craftsman router, among others. The last time I attempted to use the Craftsman it was in a table operation routing a 1/4" deep 3/8" dado along an 1/2" thick 18" long board. The bit rode up out of the collet. It's a good thing I noticed the bulge developing in the top of the push block before the bit reached my knuckles. YOU CAN GO WRONG with a Craftsman router. I second that notion. Last time I tried using the second of the two Sears routers I used to own, I was routing a 1/8" shallow dado in a piece of 2X4 to be used as a deck handrail by a neighbour (neighbor, Keith). The bit rode and the router started bogging down. I pulled the 2X4 up and saw that the bit was way up. I hit the floor and the switch simultaneously, afraid the bit would fly off. The last time I tried using my first Sears router, I cutting the rabbet in a piece of Doug fir intended as a door jamb. The bit rode up and started bogging. Luckily, it was where the hinge was to go, so I managed to put in a not too visible patch. I finished cutting that rabbet on the table saw. Luckily, some suck^H^H^H^H really nice, intelligent, articulate and helpful person took them off my hands and paid for the shipping. And I didn't have to supply the yellow paint. Luigi Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html |
#21
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opinion on craftsman router
Don Dando wrote:
very snipped You can't go too wrong on Craftsman routers. I also have a Craftsman router, among others. The last time I attempted to use the Craftsman it was in a table operation routing a 1/4" deep 3/8" dado along an 1/2" thick 18" long board. The bit rode up out of the collet. It's a good thing I noticed the bulge developing in the top of the push block before the bit reached my knuckles. YOU CAN GO WRONG with a Craftsman router. I second that notion. Last time I tried using the second of the two Sears routers I used to own, I was routing a 1/8" shallow dado in a piece of 2X4 to be used as a deck handrail by a neighbour (neighbor, Keith). The bit rode and the router started bogging down. I pulled the 2X4 up and saw that the bit was way up. I hit the floor and the switch simultaneously, afraid the bit would fly off. The last time I tried using my first Sears router, I cutting the rabbet in a piece of Doug fir intended as a door jamb. The bit rode up and started bogging. Luckily, it was where the hinge was to go, so I managed to put in a not too visible patch. I finished cutting that rabbet on the table saw. Luckily, some suck^H^H^H^H really nice, intelligent, articulate and helpful person took them off my hands and paid for the shipping. And I didn't have to supply the yellow paint. Luigi Didn't someone (I think it was BAD) just write about a similar experience with a PC router? The problem may be a bit more prevalent with the Craftsman routers (and maybe not for all I know), but it happens to others brands also. Dave Hall |
#22
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opinion on craftsman router
On 02 Mar 2004 02:46:39 GMT, (David Hall) scribbled:
Don Dando wrote: very snipped You can't go too wrong on Craftsman routers. I also have a Craftsman router, among others. The last time I attempted to use the Craftsman it was in a table operation routing a 1/4" deep 3/8" dado along an 1/2" thick 18" long board. The bit rode up out of the collet. It's a good thing I noticed the bulge developing in the top of the push block before the bit reached my knuckles. YOU CAN GO WRONG with a Craftsman router. I second that notion. Last time I tried using the second of the two Sears routers I used to own, I was routing a 1/8" shallow dado in a piece of 2X4 to be used as a deck handrail by a neighbour (neighbor, Keith). The bit rode and the router started bogging down. I pulled the 2X4 up and saw that the bit was way up. I hit the floor and the switch simultaneously, afraid the bit would fly off. The last time I tried using my first Sears router, I cutting the rabbet in a piece of Doug fir intended as a door jamb. The bit rode up and started bogging. Luckily, it was where the hinge was to go, so I managed to put in a not too visible patch. I finished cutting that rabbet on the table saw. Luckily, some suck^H^H^H^H really nice, intelligent, articulate and helpful person took them off my hands and paid for the shipping. And I didn't have to supply the yellow paint. Luigi Didn't someone (I think it was BAD) just write about a similar experience with a PC router? The problem may be a bit more prevalent with the Craftsman routers (and maybe not for all I know), but it happens to others brands also. Yabbut, with other brands, you replace the collet. With Sears, you try turning it into a boat anchor, because the collet is part of the motor shaft. Luigi Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html |
#23
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opinion on craftsman router
Sun, Feb 29, 2004, 9:57pm (EST-3) (Luigi=A0Zanasi)
confesses: snip Luckily, some suck^H^H^H^H really nice, intelligent, articulate and helpful person took them off my hands and paid for the shipping. And I didn't have to supply the yellow paint. Damn decent of you to admit to the world I'm intelligent and articulate. I'm quite happy with them too, but gotta get another can of paint. JOAT To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them. - Richard Henry Lee, 1788 Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT Web Page Update 28 Feb 2004. Some tunes I like. http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...ESILIKEVOCALS/ |
#24
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opinion on craftsman router
Yabbut, with other brands, you replace the collet. With Sears, you try
turning it into a boat anchor, because the collet is part of the motor shaft. This is not true of old Craftsman Routers. Walt Conner |
#25
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opinion on craftsman router
"B a r r y" wrote in message ... On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:45:23 GMT, Unisaw A100 wrote: "When was the last time you took your (insert name of good machine/tool) and threw it against the wall and said, Wish I'd a bought a piece of **** (insert name of good machine/tool) instead of this thing". What he said along with the following: As a newbie, you will make mistakes. Learning from own mistakes is very important. You don't have the experience to know which mistakes are yours and which are the results of crappy tools. Good tools don't guarantee excellent work, but they sure can increase the odds. If you shop around, routers by Bosch, Porter Cable, DeWalt, Milwaukee, and other brands, can be had for a few bucks more than Craftsman. I've had great results with factory reconditioned tools. You could even check for the better stuff in your local bargain shopper papers, eBay, and tag sales. With sites like Amazon at your finger tips, it's easy to decide what you would be willing to pay. Stay even farther away from Harbor Freight power tools than Craftsman. Barry I'm far from being the excellent WW that some of you guys are, but I'm no slouch either. And I've had really good luck and great results with the PC 690 that I've been using for a few years. I can't afford to buy top-of-the-line tools AND materials so I stick with my decent tools and buy plenty of wood to work with. |
#26
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opinion on craftsman router
The Craftsman routers and most of their portable power tools are made
by Ryobi which I would not buy either. However the Sears latest tools catalog does have a router plunge combo that looks like it is the Bosch 1617EVS, so maybe Sears is changing their OEM for routers and power tools. As a beginner, I would go for the Porter Cable 690 or check out the routers from Hitachi, Bosch, Milwaukee, Makita, Fein, Triton, and Freud. Andy (Ah10201) wrote in message ... I've been reading some of the posts on routers and was a little confused. I've just started investing some money on tools and from all accounts, everyone hates craftsman routers. However, most people seem to start off with a craftsman router and then move on to a better model. Is craftsman router the thing a beginner should start with since its relatively inexpensive and later move on to a better model once you've become comfortable and more experienced with wood? or does everyone consider owning a craftsman router a huge mistake and not worth the money whatsoever? thanks... |
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