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Default Drawer stops



In ng.com,
Jim In FL dropped this bit of wisdom:
I'm thinking of building (by her request actually) my wife a
chest/bureau type piece for our second bedroom. It's general storage,
and not used (open/closed) much. I thought I'd seize the opportunity
to try some things I haven't done before. I'd like to make a real
nice piece of furniture, similar to a cherry dining room sideboard
type thing I remember from my childhood. All wood, frame/panel dust
panels, INSET doors/drawers. (Might even try my first beaded face
frame - don't know if I want to get that nervy with inset doors
though.)

This will be about 16-18" deep, 46-48 long, 42 high. I don't want to
use metal drawer guides - which finally brings me to my question.
I've searched all over and picked up a lot of tips on integrating the
structures that will support and guide the drawers in and out, and
the kickers for tipping, etc. But for some reason everything I've
found is very vague about stopping the drawers, both going in, and
coming out, and the ability to remove them. My thought is that there
should be accepted, common methods to do this (many probably, some
better than others) and since I'm starting with a blank slate, I can
take this opportunity to do it right and learn some new stuff.

Open to all suggestions. Thanks for reading and extra thanks if
you've got something for me !

Jim in FL

(Totally unrelated but had to tell someone - I just made up my mind
- I'm going to buy a Domino. Been thinking about it forever to the
point where every project I do I think "well I could have done it
THIS way if I had a Domino")


Funny thing you should mention:

See "A Few Wooden Drawer Slide Details" on Page 3 of the "Project Journal" on the website www.e-woodshop.net .

This doesn't do much for stopping the drawer (one line about a "button"), but it does a fine job of illustrating a dovetail slide.

This site is by another wreck denizen, but I canjnot remember just who.

P D Q
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I'm thinking of building (by her request actually) my wife a chest/bureau
type piece for our second bedroom. It's general storage, and not used
(open/closed) much. I thought I'd seize the opportunity to try some things I
haven't done before. I'd like to make a real nice piece of furniture,
similar to a cherry dining room sideboard type thing I remember from my
childhood. All wood, frame/panel dust panels, INSET doors/drawers. (Might
even try my first beaded face frame - don't know if I want to get that nervy
with inset doors though.)

This will be about 16-18" deep, 46-48 long, 42 high. I don't want to use
metal drawer guides - which finally brings me to my question. I've searched
all over and picked up a lot of tips on integrating the structures that will
support and guide the drawers in and out, and the kickers for tipping, etc.
But for some reason everything I've found is very vague about stopping the
drawers, both going in, and coming out, and the ability to remove them. My
thought is that there should be accepted, common methods to do this (many
probably, some better than others) and since I'm starting with a blank
slate, I can take this opportunity to do it right and learn some new stuff.

Open to all suggestions. Thanks for reading and extra thanks if you've got
something for me !

Jim in FL

(Totally unrelated but had to tell someone - I just made up my mind - I'm
going to buy a Domino. Been thinking about it forever to the point where
every project I do I think "well I could have done it THIS way if I had a
Domino")

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"Jim In FL" wrote in message
ng.com...

But for some reason everything I've found is very vague about stopping the
drawers, both going in, and coming out, and the ability to remove them. My
thought is that there should be accepted, common methods to do this (many
probably, some better than others) and since I'm starting with a blank
slate, I can take this opportunity to do it right and learn some new
stuff.


Funny you should ask - the June issue of Fine Woodworking has an article on
that very topic.

Tom Dacon

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"Jim In FL" wrote in
ng.com:

*snip*
This will be about 16-18" deep, 46-48 long, 42 high. I don't want to
use metal drawer guides - which finally brings me to my question.
I've searched all over and picked up a lot of tips on integrating the
structures that will support and guide the drawers in and out, and the
kickers for tipping, etc. But for some reason everything I've found is
very vague about stopping the drawers, both going in, and coming out,
and the ability to remove them. My thought is that there should be
accepted, common methods to do this (many probably, some better than
others) and since I'm starting with a blank slate, I can take this
opportunity to do it right and learn some new stuff.

Open to all suggestions. Thanks for reading and extra thanks if
you've got something for me !

Jim in FL

(Totally unrelated but had to tell someone - I just made up my mind -
I'm going to buy a Domino. Been thinking about it forever to the
point where every project I do I think "well I could have done it THIS
way if I had a Domino")


I've noticed quite a few pieces of furniture don't have stops. With
rails at the top and bottom, the drawer won't start to tip until about
80% out.

The only dresser I remember having stops had a piece of metal sorta like
a filled-in staple at the front of the front brace. The drawer could
then be tipped out for removal, but it would stop the drawer from coming
out too far. The important thing about stops is to make sure the drawers
are still removable.

Congratulations on the Domino purchase decision! I just got a skid steer
to get stuck in the mud. ;-)

Puckdropper
--
"The potential difference between the top and bottom of a tree is the
reason why all trees have to be grounded..." -- Bored Borg on
rec.woodworking

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
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Not elegant but I sometimes put a screw at each side behind the drawer
to control the depth of closure, jsut twist them in or out a bit to
fine tune.

I have thought about drilling a hole in the drawer bottom at the very
back and dropping in a small bolt that will act as a stop and can
easily be lifet out when needed but I have never actually done it. If
I made kids furniture I might do it.

On May 3, 5:23*pm, "Jim In FL" wrote:
I'm thinking of building (by her request actually) my wife a chest/bureau
type piece for our second bedroom. It's general storage, and not used
(open/closed) much. I thought I'd seize the opportunity to try some things I
haven't done before. *I'd like to make a real nice piece of furniture,
similar to a cherry dining room sideboard type thing I remember from my
childhood. All wood, frame/panel dust panels, INSET doors/drawers. (Might
even try my first beaded face frame - don't know if I want to get that nervy
with inset doors though.)

This will be about 16-18" deep, 46-48 long, 42 high. *I don't want to use
metal drawer guides - which finally brings me to my question. *I've searched
all over and picked up a lot of tips on integrating the structures that will
support and guide the drawers in and out, and the kickers for tipping, etc.
But for some reason everything I've found is very vague about stopping the
drawers, both going in, and coming out, and the ability to remove them. My
thought is that there should be accepted, common methods to do this (many
probably, some better than others) and since I'm starting with a blank
slate, I can take this opportunity to do it right and learn some new stuff.

Open to all suggestions. *Thanks for reading and extra thanks if you've got
something for me !

Jim in FL

(Totally unrelated but had to tell someone - I just made up my mind - I'm
going to buy a Domino. *Been thinking about it forever to the point where
every project I do I think "well I could have done it THIS way if I had a
Domino")




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On Sun, 03 May 2009 20:23:27 -0400, Jim In FL wrote:

But for some reason everything I've found is
very vague about stopping the drawers, both going in, and coming out,
and the ability to remove them.


As far as stopping them going in so that they align with the case front,
I've used faucet washers with brass screws through them. You can get a
little adjustment by how tight you make the screw, and the rubber is
quieter and lessens the shock on the drawer more than wood or metal.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
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"SonomaProducts.com" wrote

I have thought about drilling a hole in the drawer bottom at the very
back and dropping in a small bolt that will act as a stop and can
easily be lifted out when needed but I have never actually done it. If
I made kids furniture I might do it.
=================================

Funny you should mention that. I used to own a massive oak desk and that is
exactly what they did for both the drawers and the slideout writing
surfaces.

But the bolt the used was a fancy one. All smooth, no threads and a round,
flat top. I think it wa bronze?? It looked similar to what is used on a T
bolt. No idea where to find them. But something stock can be found, I am
sure. It worked well.





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"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
...

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote

I have thought about drilling a hole in the drawer bottom at the
very
back and dropping in a small bolt that will act as a stop and can
easily be lifted out when needed but I have never actually done it.
If
I made kids furniture I might do it.
=================================

Funny you should mention that. I used to own a massive oak desk and
that is exactly what they did for both the drawers and the slideout
writing surfaces.

But the bolt the used was a fancy one. All smooth, no threads and a
round, flat top. I think it wa bronze?? It looked similar to what
is used on a T bolt. No idea where to find them. But something stock
can be found, I am sure. It worked well.


The description almost sounds like the male part of a rivet
They are often made of soft metals for ease of mashing
over the washer side. I remember my father replacing the
pads on brake shoes that were held on with copper rivets,
He had the tool to knock in the rivet (looked like a punch
mounted on a "c" clamp and that was hammered to mash
over the ends of the stud, This was over 50 years ago.
CC

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"CC" wrote:

The description almost sounds like the male part of a rivet
They are often made of soft metals for ease of mashing
over the washer side.


The "washer" above is called a burr.

I wear a belt I made from nylon strapping material, bronze rings,
assembled with copper rivets and burrs.

Why the above construction?

No magnetic materials involved thus no affect on magnetic compass when
on the helm of a sailboat.

BTW, check a tool and die hardware supplier for the specialty bolt.

A long time ago, back in Cleveland, there was a company named Jergens
Tool who would have had what you need.

Don't even know if they are still in business.

Just Googled, yes they are still around.

Lew


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Jim In FL wrote:
I'm thinking of building (by her request actually) my wife a
chest/bureau type piece for our second bedroom. It's general storage,
and not used (open/closed) much. I thought I'd seize the opportunity
to try some things I haven't done before. I'd like to make a real
nice piece of furniture, similar to a cherry dining room sideboard
type thing I remember from my childhood. All wood, frame/panel dust
panels, INSET doors/drawers. (Might even try my first beaded face
frame - don't know if I want to get that nervy with inset doors
though.)
This will be about 16-18" deep, 46-48 long, 42 high. I don't want to
use metal drawer guides - which finally brings me to my question. I've
searched all over and picked up a lot of tips on integrating the
structures that will support and guide the drawers in and out, and
the kickers for tipping, etc. But for some reason everything I've
found is very vague about stopping the drawers, both going in, and
coming out, and the ability to remove them. My thought is that there
should be accepted, common methods to do this (many probably, some
better than others) and since I'm starting with a blank slate, I can
take this opportunity to do it right and learn some new stuff.
Open to all suggestions. Thanks for reading and extra thanks if
you've got something for me !


1. For slides, there are lots of ways. I usually just rout a groove in the
drawer sides and mount rails to slide in the grooves on the inside of the
cabinet. Groove depth depends upon side thickness but I wouldn't want less
than 14" deep.

The rails should be a hard wood - I like hickory, sometimes white oak. They
should extend almost but not all the way into the grooves...the idea is to
provide the drawer a bit of side to side motion but *very* little. They
should also be a hair thinner top to bottom than the groove is wide to keep
the drawer from tipping. Since they serve to stop the drawer from tipping
they need to be firmly mounted.

2. There are numerous ways to stop a drawer at the proper place when
inserted....one or more bumbers of rubber or wood at the back...vertical
pieces behind the apron at the sides of the drawer opening...

3. To stop the drawer from being pulled out, I like to make the drawer back
higher than the drawer opening. I usually round it over along the top edge
and shape it (ogee) so that it slopes to meet the drawer sides.

To facilitate inserting/removing the drawer, you need to widen the top back
part of the groove in the drawer sides and/or the top front edge of the
rail. Sort of like a rule joint. That allows you to tip the drawer, hook
the top of the back behind the face frame and the slide it in; when pulled
out, the back will hit the face frame and prevent it coming out unless the
front of the drawer is tipped up.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico





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dadiOH wrote:
Jim In FL wrote:
I'm thinking of building (by her request actually) my wife a
chest/bureau type piece for our second bedroom. It's general storage,
and not used (open/closed) much. I thought I'd seize the opportunity
to try some things I haven't done before. I'd like to make a real
nice piece of furniture, similar to a cherry dining room sideboard
type thing I remember from my childhood. All wood, frame/panel dust
panels, INSET doors/drawers. (Might even try my first beaded face
frame - don't know if I want to get that nervy with inset doors
though.)
This will be about 16-18" deep, 46-48 long, 42 high. I don't want to
use metal drawer guides - which finally brings me to my question.
I've searched all over and picked up a lot of tips on integrating the
structures that will support and guide the drawers in and out, and
the kickers for tipping, etc. But for some reason everything I've
found is very vague about stopping the drawers, both going in, and
coming out, and the ability to remove them. My thought is that there
should be accepted, common methods to do this (many probably, some
better than others) and since I'm starting with a blank slate, I can
take this opportunity to do it right and learn some new stuff.
Open to all suggestions. Thanks for reading and extra thanks if
you've got something for me !


1. For slides, there are lots of ways. I usually just rout a groove
in the drawer sides and mount rails to slide in the grooves on the
inside of the cabinet. Groove depth depends upon side thickness but
I wouldn't want less than 14" deep.


1/4", dammit, 1/4"

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico



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I have a fine old antique walnut dresser in my office that has small
walnut blocks glued to the underside of the horizontal drawer rail?/
divider? that holds the face of the drawer in alignment to the face of
the rail. I have often speculated that a small sliding piece of wood
at the top of the drawer back could engage the other side of that
block to keep the drawer from falling out, but the original maker
didn't do it, and I haven't either.

Old Guy

On May 3, 8:23*pm, "Jim In FL" wrote:
I'm thinking of building (by her request actually) my wife a chest/bureau
type piece for our second bedroom. It's general storage, and not used
(open/closed) much. I thought I'd seize the opportunity to try some things I
haven't done before. *I'd like to make a real nice piece of furniture,
similar to a cherry dining room sideboard type thing I remember from my
childhood. All wood, frame/panel dust panels, INSET doors/drawers. (Might
even try my first beaded face frame - don't know if I want to get that nervy
with inset doors though.)

This will be about 16-18" deep, 46-48 long, 42 high. *I don't want to use
metal drawer guides - which finally brings me to my question. *I've searched
all over and picked up a lot of tips on integrating the structures that will
support and guide the drawers in and out, and the kickers for tipping, etc.
But for some reason everything I've found is very vague about stopping the
drawers, both going in, and coming out, and the ability to remove them. My
thought is that there should be accepted, common methods to do this (many
probably, some better than others) and since I'm starting with a blank
slate, I can take this opportunity to do it right and learn some new stuff.

Open to all suggestions. *Thanks for reading and extra thanks if you've got
something for me !

Jim in FL

(Totally unrelated but had to tell someone - I just made up my mind - I'm
going to buy a Domino. *Been thinking about it forever to the point where
every project I do I think "well I could have done it THIS way if I had a
Domino")


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On Mon, 04 May 2009 07:36:07 -0400, dadiOH wrote:

1. For slides, there are lots of ways. I usually just rout a groove in
the drawer sides and mount rails to slide in the grooves on the inside
of the cabinet. Groove depth depends upon side thickness but I
wouldn't want less than 14" deep.


1/4", dammit, 1/4"


Well, *there's* your problem...
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Many thanks to everyone - lots of good info here.

Tom - you were right on - the article says it all. Good timing huh ?

It also pushed me over the edge to go ahead and subscribe to FWW like I've
been threatening to forever.

Jim In FL

"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
...
"Jim In FL" wrote in message
ng.com...

But for some reason everything I've found is very vague about stopping
the drawers, both going in, and coming out, and the ability to remove
them. My thought is that there should be accepted, common methods to do
this (many probably, some better than others) and since I'm starting with
a blank slate, I can take this opportunity to do it right and learn some
new stuff.


Funny you should ask - the June issue of Fine Woodworking has an article
on that very topic.

Tom Dacon

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PDQ wrote:

In ng.com,
Jim In FL dropped this bit of wisdom:
I'm thinking of building (by her request actually) my wife a
chest/bureau type piece for our second bedroom. It's general storage,
and not used (open/closed) much. I thought I'd seize the opportunity
to try some things I haven't done before. I'd like to make a real
nice piece of furniture, similar to a cherry dining room sideboard
type thing I remember from my childhood. All wood, frame/panel dust
panels, INSET doors/drawers. (Might even try my first beaded face
frame - don't know if I want to get that nervy with inset doors
though.)

This will be about 16-18" deep, 46-48 long, 42 high. I don't want to
use metal drawer guides - which finally brings me to my question.
I've searched all over and picked up a lot of tips on integrating the
structures that will support and guide the drawers in and out, and
the kickers for tipping, etc. But for some reason everything I've
found is very vague about stopping the drawers, both going in, and
coming out, and the ability to remove them. My thought is that there
should be accepted, common methods to do this (many probably, some
better than others) and since I'm starting with a blank slate, I can
take this opportunity to do it right and learn some new stuff.

Open to all suggestions. Thanks for reading and extra thanks if
you've got something for me !

Jim in FL

(Totally unrelated but had to tell someone - I just made up my mind
- I'm going to buy a Domino. Been thinking about it forever to the
point where every project I do I think "well I could have done it
THIS way if I had a Domino")


Funny thing you should mention:

See "A Few Wooden Drawer Slide Details" on Page 3 of the "Project Journal" on the website www.e-woodshop.net .

This doesn't do much for stopping the drawer (one line about a "button"), but it does a fine job of illustrating a dovetail slide.

This site is by another wreck denizen, but I canjnot remember just who.

P D Q


Sorry about that ... here is what a "button", used on the back of a
drawer to stop it from being pulled all the way out, looks like:

http://e-woodshop.net/files/button.jpg

Just use a single screw so that you reach inside the drawer and turn it
out of the way when you want to pull the drawer out.

TIP: by gluing/screwing a mating block above the drawer in the
appropriate place, you can allow the drawer to be opened only as far as
desired. I use this in cases where a fully opened drawer may interfere
with a cabinet door, like in a corner cabinet situation.

Simple, effective, elegant, and as old as the hills.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)


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"Swingman" wrote in message ...
PDQ wrote:

In ng.com,
Jim In FL dropped this bit of wisdom:
I'm thinking of building (by her request actually) my wife a
chest/bureau type piece for our second bedroom. It's general storage,
and not used (open/closed) much. I thought I'd seize the opportunity
to try some things I haven't done before. I'd like to make a real
nice piece of furniture, similar to a cherry dining room sideboard
type thing I remember from my childhood. All wood, frame/panel dust
panels, INSET doors/drawers. (Might even try my first beaded face
frame - don't know if I want to get that nervy with inset doors
though.)

This will be about 16-18" deep, 46-48 long, 42 high. I don't want to
use metal drawer guides - which finally brings me to my question.
I've searched all over and picked up a lot of tips on integrating the
structures that will support and guide the drawers in and out, and
the kickers for tipping, etc. But for some reason everything I've
found is very vague about stopping the drawers, both going in, and
coming out, and the ability to remove them. My thought is that there
should be accepted, common methods to do this (many probably, some
better than others) and since I'm starting with a blank slate, I can
take this opportunity to do it right and learn some new stuff.

Open to all suggestions. Thanks for reading and extra thanks if
you've got something for me !

Jim in FL

(Totally unrelated but had to tell someone - I just made up my mind
- I'm going to buy a Domino. Been thinking about it forever to the
point where every project I do I think "well I could have done it
THIS way if I had a Domino")


Funny thing you should mention:

See "A Few Wooden Drawer Slide Details" on Page 3 of the "Project Journal" on the website www.e-woodshop.net .

This doesn't do much for stopping the drawer (one line about a "button"), but it does a fine job of illustrating a dovetail slide.

This site is by another wreck denizen, but I canjnot remember just who.

P D Q


Sorry about that ... here is what a "button", used on the back of a
drawer to stop it from being pulled all the way out, looks like:

http://e-woodshop.net/files/button.jpg

Just use a single screw so that you reach inside the drawer and turn it
out of the way when you want to pull the drawer out.

TIP: by gluing/screwing a mating block above the drawer in the
appropriate place, you can allow the drawer to be opened only as far as
desired. I use this in cases where a fully opened drawer may interfere
with a cabinet door, like in a corner cabinet situation.

Simple, effective, elegant, and as old as the hills.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)


Now I remember who was doing the web-site.

I'll remember to properly attribute this one.

P D Q
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Swingman wrote:

.... snip


Sorry about that ... here is what a "button", used on the back of a
drawer to stop it from being pulled all the way out, looks like:

http://e-woodshop.net/files/button.jpg

Just use a single screw so that you reach inside the drawer and turn it
out of the way when you want to pull the drawer out.


Thanks for that, coincidentally, I've been trying to determine how to
install stops on the drawers for my end tables (yeah, I'm still working
that project -- life has gotten in the way of spending a lot of shop time
to finish). The drawers are only 3 1/2" tall, so I can't get an arm in
back to install the stops. I overcame the issue for the wooden drawer
guides by installing them before carcase assembly and will fit by tuning
the drawer groove. What I was struggling with was depth control with back
stops. I don't need the top stop (the drawers are flush to the dust
skirts, but attaching a tuned block to the back drawer is exactly what I
needed.


TIP: by gluing/screwing a mating block above the drawer in the
appropriate place, you can allow the drawer to be opened only as far as
desired. I use this in cases where a fully opened drawer may interfere
with a cabinet door, like in a corner cabinet situation.

Simple, effective, elegant, and as old as the hills.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
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Mark & Juanita wrote:


the drawer groove. What I was struggling with was depth control with back
stops. I don't need the top stop (the drawers are flush to the dust
skirts, but attaching a tuned block to the back drawer is exactly what I
needed.


Picked up the "block with flat head screw for drawer depth adjustment"
from the old cabinet maker I worked for in England some 45 years ago.
His family had been making cabinets and furniture for over 200 years and
he was an encyclopedia of similar wisdom.

I'm certain that he would be tickled/proud to know that it has been
passed on.

Unfortunately we are losing much practical wisdom in this supposed "age
of enlightenment".

BTW, saw where the average IQ in the US has has supposedly dropped to 98
.... nothing surprising about that, eh?


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
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