I'm making a special desk for a friend of mine who is a quadrapalegic
(sp). It will be a fairly large "L" shaped desk so that he has room to
move his wheelchair to use one section and his wife can use the other leg
of the "L" as a normal desk.

My original plan was to make this out of red oak since red oak plywood is
readily available and it isn't terribly expensive. My problem is that
his wife wants it to be black to match the piano. Now I'm not NEARLY
good enough to produce a finish to match a baby grand, and I'm thinking
that any shiny black surface would look awful on ANY minor surface
blemish. I'm also not looking at some exotic wood since frankly I don't
want to spend thousands of dollars on this project

I wouldn't think anything short of paint would produce a suitable black
so I was thinking about putting black laminate on the top/sides and
trimming in something like beech or maple. That would seem to make it
easier hiding the laminate edges.

Anybody have any words of wisdom?

Thanks,
Jim

Jim asks:

I'm making a special desk for a friend of mine who is a quadrapalegic
(sp). It will be a fairly large "L" shaped desk so that he has room to
move his wheelchair to use one section and his wife can use the other leg
of the "L" as a normal desk.

My original plan was to make this out of red oak since red oak plywood is
readily available and it isn't terribly expensive. My problem is that
his wife wants it to be black to match the piano. Now I'm not NEARLY
good enough to produce a finish to match a baby grand, and I'm thinking
that any shiny black surface would look awful on ANY minor surface
blemish.

You're right about the blems.

I wouldn't think anything short of paint would produce a suitable black
so I was thinking about putting black laminate on the top/sides and
trimming in something like beech or maple. That would seem to make it
easier hiding the laminate edges.

It's easier.

Anybody have any words of wisdom?

Tell your pal's wife that the black, shiny piano is finished that way so it
will stand OUT from the rest of the room, not match it. You might tell her,
too, that too much unrelieved black in a room is depressing as hell.



Charlie Self
"Take care of the luxuries and the necessities will take care of themselves."
Dorothy Parker

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

"Jim" wrote in message
...

I wouldn't think anything short of paint would produce a suitable black
so I was thinking about putting black laminate on the top/sides and
trimming in something like beech or maple. That would seem to make it
easier hiding the laminate edges.

Anybody have any words of wisdom?

---------------
Have you considered coloured MDF?

This stuff: http://www.avonplywood.co.uk/downloa...Price_Page.pdf

might just suit your needs. As it is the same colour all the way through it
makes it somewhat ding resistant. It'll stay black forever.

I'm thinking of ripping out some old built-in wardrobes and replacing with this
stuff, maybe the red and black. I'll need to get some samples of all the colours
to see just how they work with each other, but the pictures from he
http://www.avonplywood.co.uk/noframe...%20gallery.htm

look quite promising.

HTH

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 05:14:26 GMT, Jim wrote:

My original plan was to make this out of red oak since red oak plywood is
readily available and it isn't terribly expensive.

I like MDF for desks. There's usually plenty of scope for supporting
them underneath, so it's lack of stiffness isn't a problem. The lack
of surface grain makes it a much easier substrate for painting than a
natural timber.

Simple black paint is a good finish on MDF. Use the right primer, sand
between coats, work in a dust-free environment and you should have no
trouble with it. OK, so it's not as high gloss as a piano, but that's
not a bad thing for something you're looking closely at.

A quick and easy painted semi-gloss finish on MDF is to use blackboard
paint and wax. The matt black paint is full of solids so it gap fills
and self-levels pretty easily. Then you put a sheen on it with a coat
of finishing wax.


If you do paint plywood, then the trick is to undercoat it properly.
Two or three coats of undercoat minimum - you have to fill those
pores. Rub down after the undercoat coats and don't even think about
switching to the finish coats until you've got that surface perfectly
smooth.

Another finish might be to give a more natural ebonised timber finish
(the "black ash" finish of the '80s). Red oak will ebonise quite
easily with either ammonia (25% cleaning ammonia, applied wet with a
brush - work outdoors) or with standard ebonising solution (iron and
vinegar - search for a post I did last week). Watch for gluelines or
repair patches becoming more visible on plywood though. Once you've
ebonised it, useoil and then wax as a finish. You'll get something
low-gloss that looks like natural timber, only black.


Another finish for the top might be rubber sheet. It looks good on a
desk, stops things sliding around and is very hard wearing.

--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

Jim wrote in message ...
I'm making a special desk for a friend of mine who is a quadrapalegic
(sp). It will be a fairly large "L" shaped desk so that he has room to
move his wheelchair to use one section and his wife can use the other leg
of the "L" as a normal desk.

My original plan was to make this out of red oak since red oak plywood is
readily available and it isn't terribly expensive. My problem is that
his wife wants it to be black to match the piano. Now I'm not NEARLY
good enough to produce a finish to match a baby grand, and I'm thinking
that any shiny black surface would look awful on ANY minor surface
blemish. I'm also not looking at some exotic wood since frankly I don't
want to spend thousands of dollars on this project

I wouldn't think anything short of paint would produce a suitable black
so I was thinking about putting black laminate on the top/sides and
trimming in something like beech or maple. That would seem to make it
easier hiding the laminate edges.

Anybody have any words of wisdom?

Thanks,
Jim


I'm doing a built-in desk and bookshelf right now. The desk surface
is 14'-6" long and it's all ebonized oak. The grain is still slightly
visible and contrasts nicely with the rest of the oak.

Jim wrote:

his wife wants it to be black to match the piano. Now I'm not NEARLY
good enough to produce a finish to match a baby grand, and I'm thinking
that any shiny black surface would look awful on ANY minor surface

You're missing the point to all of this. Take some 0000 steel wool and
scuff up that thar pie-anner to match the finish on your desk. Problem
solved.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

(WebsterSteve) wrote in message . com...
Jim wrote in message ...
Try using an analine or alcohol based dye.

I just read (somewhere) that the lacquer that is used on pianos cost
over $100 per gallon. Good stuff, huh?


On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:02:55 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

Jim wrote:

his wife wants it to be black to match the piano. Now I'm not NEARLY
good enough to produce a finish to match a baby grand, and I'm thinking
that any shiny black surface would look awful on ANY minor surface

You're missing the point to all of this. Take some 0000 steel wool and
scuff up that thar pie-anner to match the finish on your desk. Problem
solved.

Ummm...Charlie you ARE married right? Maybe you are as good a talker as
you are a woodworker. I know *I* haven't convinced my wife let alone
someone elses of anything in the last 40 years!


Tell your pal's wife that the black, shiny piano is finished that way
so it will stand OUT from the rest of the room, not match it. You
might tell her, too, that too much unrelieved black in a room is
depressing as hell.



Charlie Self
"Take care of the luxuries and the necessities will take care of
themselves." Dorothy Parker

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

I think this may be the most intelligent, well thought out, insightful
post of the year.

I stand in sincere awe.
Jim

Silvan wrote in news:gq7ud1-ova.ln1
@giganator.family.lan:

Jim wrote:

his wife wants it to be black to match the piano. Now I'm not NEARLY
good enough to produce a finish to match a baby grand, and I'm
thinking
that any shiny black surface would look awful on ANY minor surface

You're missing the point to all of this. Take some 0000 steel wool and
scuff up that thar pie-anner to match the finish on your desk. Problem
solved.

I like the ebonising idea. With something like that I may be able to go
for a natural light finish for the main piece and work in ebonized oak
for the trim. I was originally thinking it would need to be mostly black
to hide the laminate edges, but the ebonizing would give me a lot more
options.

I think I'll try a piece this week and see how it works.

THANKS!
Jim

Andy Dingley wrote in
:
[snipage]
Another finish might be to give a more natural ebonised timber finish
(the "black ash" finish of the '80s). Red oak will ebonise quite
easily with either ammonia (25% cleaning ammonia, applied wet with a
brush - work outdoors) or with standard ebonising solution (iron and
vinegar - search for a post I did last week). Watch for gluelines or
repair patches becoming more visible on plywood though. Once you've
ebonised it, useoil and then wax as a finish. You'll get something
low-gloss that looks like natural timber, only black.


Another finish for the top might be rubber sheet. It looks good on a
desk, stops things sliding around and is very hard wearing.

--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

Hydrocote makes (made?) a water-based finish that was available in
gloss black. I experimented with it a bit, and still have a little test
piece
around here somewhere. I just couldn't bear to throw it away, it came
out so nice. Easy to apply, too, and you can rub it out with pumice
and rottenstone to whatever gloss you'd like.

Highland Hardware (http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/)
used to carry the stuff, probably still does. I'm sure there are others.

Hope it helps,
Henry Bibb

"Condor" wrote in message
om...
(WebsterSteve) wrote in message
. com...
Jim wrote in message
...
Try using an analine or alcohol based dye.

Well, I painted my MDF desk black with the Dupont Centari auto paint I had
left over from repair/paint my tailgate on my pickup. That was five years
ago, and I can still see all the reflections I want in it. Almost as good as
lacquer.

--
"Cartoons don't have any deep meaning.
They're just stupid drawings that give you a cheap laugh."
Homer Simpson
Jerry© The Phoneman®
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 05:14:26 GMT, Jim wrote:

My original plan was to make this out of red oak since red oak plywood is
readily available and it isn't terribly expensive.

I like MDF for desks. There's usually plenty of scope for supporting
them underneath, so it's lack of stiffness isn't a problem. The lack
of surface grain makes it a much easier substrate for painting than a
natural timber.

Simple black paint is a good finish on MDF. Use the right primer, sand
between coats, work in a dust-free environment and you should have no
trouble with it. OK, so it's not as high gloss as a piano, but that's
not a bad thing for something you're looking closely at.

A quick and easy painted semi-gloss finish on MDF is to use blackboard
paint and wax. The matt black paint is full of solids so it gap fills
and self-levels pretty easily. Then you put a sheen on it with a coat
of finishing wax.


If you do paint plywood, then the trick is to undercoat it properly.
Two or three coats of undercoat minimum - you have to fill those
pores. Rub down after the undercoat coats and don't even think about
switching to the finish coats until you've got that surface perfectly
smooth.

Another finish might be to give a more natural ebonised timber finish
(the "black ash" finish of the '80s). Red oak will ebonise quite
easily with either ammonia (25% cleaning ammonia, applied wet with a
brush - work outdoors) or with standard ebonising solution (iron and
vinegar - search for a post I did last week). Watch for gluelines or
repair patches becoming more visible on plywood though. Once you've
ebonised it, useoil and then wax as a finish. You'll get something
low-gloss that looks like natural timber, only black.


Another finish for the top might be rubber sheet. It looks good on a
desk, stops things sliding around and is very hard wearing.

--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

Jim notes:

Ummm...Charlie you ARE married right? Maybe you are as good a talker as
you are a woodworker. I know *I* haven't convinced my wife let alone
someone elses of anything in the last 40 years!

Tell her that the wood finish doesn't show dust and fingerprints NEARLY as bad
as the gloss black so it is just a swipe of the feather duster and on, instead
of 10-15-20 minutes each cleaning day with cloths and polish.

Charlie Self
"Take care of the luxuries and the necessities will take care of themselves."
Dorothy Parker

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Charlie Self wrote:

Tell her that the wood finish doesn't show dust and fingerprints NEARLY as
bad as the gloss black so it is just a swipe of the feather duster and on,
instead of 10-15-20 minutes each cleaning day with cloths and polish.

Your wife knows how to use a feather duster? Your wife has a "cleaning day"
with cloths and polish?

I got gypped maybe.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Silvan responds:

Tell her that the wood finish doesn't show dust and fingerprints NEARLY as
bad as the gloss black so it is just a swipe of the feather duster and on,
instead of 10-15-20 minutes each cleaning day with cloths and polish.

Your wife knows how to use a feather duster? Your wife has a "cleaning day"
with cloths and polish?

I got gypped maybe.


Hey, this is a case of "Do as I say". My wife knows what a feather duster is.
Hell, it usually sits under the hall telephone table, so she has to know. She
even vacuumed a chair last week.

You bet. She has a cleaning day. Once every February 29th.

Charlie Self
"Character is much easier kept than recovered." Thomas Paine

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Charlie Self wrote:

I got gypped maybe.


Hey, this is a case of "Do as I say". My wife knows what a feather duster
is. Hell, it usually sits under the hall telephone table, so she has to
know. She even vacuumed a chair last week.

You bet. She has a cleaning day. Once every February 29th.

I got gypped for sure then. Mine has a cleaning day every February 31st.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

"Jim" wrote in message
...
My problem is that
his wife wants it to be black to match the piano.

Use a bottle of black writing ink. You can stain the timber black without
hiding the grain effect, then coat with a sealer / varnish to the required
finish. That way, it matches the piano (black), displays the wood grain, and
should hide any blemishes.

Alterntaively, use a "black Japan" finish, similar to Laque Cinese (chinese
black laquer)..

Jim wrote in message ...
I'm making a special desk for a friend of mine who is a quadrapalegic
(sp). It will be a fairly large "L" shaped desk so that he has room to
move his wheelchair to use one section and his wife can use the other leg
of the "L" as a normal desk.

My original plan was to make this out of red oak since red oak plywood is
readily available and it isn't terribly expensive. My problem is that
his wife wants it to be black to match the piano. Now I'm not NEARLY
good enough to produce a finish to match a baby grand, and I'm thinking
that any shiny black surface would look awful on ANY minor surface
blemish. I'm also not looking at some exotic wood since frankly I don't
want to spend thousands of dollars on this project

I wouldn't think anything short of paint would produce a suitable black
so I was thinking about putting black laminate on the top/sides and
trimming in something like beech or maple. That would seem to make it
easier hiding the laminate edges.

Anybody have any words of wisdom?

Well, the piano is black because of black lacquer. If you really want
to match it, I can find the name of the company that supplies the
lacquer to Steinway Pianos. I bought a gallon of it a while back to
refinish my piano bench, and it was very expensive. I think around
$100/gal.

You'd have to spray it, and probably rub it out. I think that would
be crazy for a surface that you're going to pile papers and computer
equipment upon.

Well, the piano is black because of black lacquer. If you really want
to match it, I can find the name of the company that supplies the
lacquer to Steinway Pianos. I bought a gallon of it a while back to
refinish my piano bench, and it was very expensive. I think around
$100/gal.

You'd have to spray it, and probably rub it out. I think that would
be crazy for a surface that you're going to pile papers and computer
equipment upon.


Thanks for the offer, but I'm not wanting to spend that much money on a
piano finish for a desk with at least 12' of desktop area. Even if the
finish was cheap I am confident my finishing talent would fall well short
of those that made the piano.

I also agree that a piano finish wouldn't be very practical for a desk
surface.

On 21 Jan 2004 11:15:18 -0800, (Larry Bud)
wrote:

I wouldn't think anything short of paint would produce a suitable black
so I was thinking about putting black laminate on the top/sides and
trimming in something like beech or maple. That would seem to make it
easier hiding the laminate edges.

Anybody have any words of wisdom?

Don't know about large things or plywood, but here is something that I
do.

I keep a mason jar filled with scrap iron - old steel wool, old nails
etc - nice and rusty. Then I fill the jar with white distilled
vinegar and let it sit for a while.

I will then filter the vinegar solution into another jar, and when you
soak oak in it, it will stain the oak black - like ebony. Never tried
this with a large thing like a desk - but you might give it a try. It
is not a surface treatment, it is a stain, and it goes quite deep into
the wood, so you can sand and finish like ordinary oak.

Mark