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Default How smooth is smooth enough? Amateur Q.

I'm a stone-cold amateur at woodworking. Doing my very first project
of any kind: making a simple desk out of some plywood and electrical
conduits for legs.

I am sanding the plywood (birch) and I realized that I don't know when
I am done... I know that I am going to add polyurethane after this,
but am unclear whether that is *only* for keeping moisture out... or
if that is also the final stage of "smoothing."

Do I sand until the surface of the desk is perfectly smooth and then
add the polyurethane? Or is mostly smooth okay and then the
polyurethane makes it smoother?

In general, how smooth can I expect to make the surface of my desk?
Can I get it as smooth as the ones in Home Depot? Or are they that
smooth because of some other material/procedure?

thanks for any help!
scott.
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Default How smooth is smooth enough? Amateur Q.

"m. scott veach" wrote

I am sanding the plywood (birch) and I realized that I don't know when
I am done...


With plywood you'll know all too soon ... right after you've sanded through
the veneer.

With most furniture grade plywoods, a _light_ sanding with anything from 150
to 220 grit should suffice for just about any finish.

For your particuar project, take a piece of the plywood scrap and sand away
at it until your break through the veneer. This will give you a practical
idea of what to expect with that particular material.


--
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Last update: 12/14/07
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Default How smooth is smooth enough? Amateur Q.

On Jan 11, 1:32*am, "m. scott veach" wrote:
I'm a stone-cold amateur at woodworking. *Doing my very first project
of any kind: *making a simple desk out of some plywood and electrical
conduits for legs.

I am sanding the plywood (birch) and I realized that I don't know when
I am done... I know that I am going to add polyurethane after this,
but am unclear whether that is *only* for keeping moisture out... or
if that is also the final stage of "smoothing."

Do I sand until the surface of the desk is perfectly smooth and then
add the polyurethane? * Or is mostly smooth okay and then the
polyurethane makes it smoother?

In general, how smooth can I expect to make the surface of my desk?
Can I get it as smooth as the ones in Home Depot? *Or are they that
smooth because of some other material/procedure?

thanks for any help!
scott.


To add to Swingman's advice you can get it as smooth or smother than
the Borg stuff. Between each coat of Poly or after the first couple
hit the surface with #00 steel wool (Only if using oil-based poly).
Then a few weeks after the finish has cured you can buff it out with
#0000 steel wool.

I would also rig up a way for the top to be vertical while applying
the finish. This will decrease the amount of dust that settles on the
surface. Simply hanging it by the conduit brackets is OK but it will
be tough to apply finish on a swinging target, BTDT.

Forget the brushes foam or otherwise, use old t-shirts or buy a bag of
cut-offs.

Welcome aboard!

Start saving for your next tool.
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Default How smooth is smooth enough? Amateur Q.

Swingman wrote:

With most furniture grade plywoods, a _light_ sanding with anything from 150
to 220 grit should suffice for just about any finish.


Applying a sanding sealer before sanding can make a smooth finish easier
to get with far less wood removal.
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RayV wrote:
On Jan 11, 1:32 am, "m. scott veach" wrote:
I'm a stone-cold amateur at woodworking. Doing my very first project
of any kind: making a simple desk out of some plywood and electrical
conduits for legs.



To add to Swingman's advice you can get it as smooth or smother than
the Borg stuff. Between each coat of Poly or after the first couple
hit the surface with #00 steel wool (Only if using oil-based poly).
Then a few weeks after the finish has cured you can buff it out with
#0000 steel wool.

I would also rig up a way for the top to be vertical while applying
the finish. This will decrease the amount of dust that settles on the
surface. Simply hanging it by the conduit brackets is OK but it will
be tough to apply finish on a swinging target, BTDT.


I understood what you said, and why, and agree with why you said it.
But it needs a clarification, IMO and leaves out way too much for a
newbie.
To coat something vertical you just about have no choice but to use a
wipe-on method of application, not a brush of any kind, for a table-top
smooth finish. Foam, bristles, etc. are very likely, almost sure, to
result in runs, especially for a neophyte. Wiping the finish on can be
tedious and isn't for the first timer with his final product.

Urethanes et al are "self levelling", meaning that they are forgiving
for brush marks, overlaps, etc. because they will let gravity smooth
them out when they're applied to a horizontal surface per the
instructions that come with them. With a good brush and a new can of
urethane, it's possible to get a very smooth, professional looking
finish IFF the dust can be kept under control.
Several thin coats are also much better than one thick coat. I
usually use 3 coats, sometimes 4, depending on what it is and how deep I
want the gloss, if I'm doing a glossy. Personally I like semi-gloss
better but that's a matter of preference.
For dust control I have a celing fan with a furnace filter attached
to it. I turn it on a couple hours before I start and leave it on
during the application. Then I avoid creating more dust with other
projects during the setup times and my last coat comes out perfect for
me. Horizontal storage during the setup time is easier too since they
can just be placed flat on various surfaces. Once the material sets up,
usually about an hour, it's OK to store them in any position as long as
painted edges etc. are kep from touching anything.

Everything you said made good sense; it's just the missing info that I
wanted to add.

Regards,

Twayne


Forget the brushes foam or otherwise, use old t-shirts or buy a bag of
cut-offs.

Welcome aboard!

Start saving for your next tool.






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"Twayne" wrote in message
news:m_Nhj.29$na4.11@trnddc05...
SNIP
For dust control I have a celing fan with a furnace filter attached to
it. I turn it on a couple hours before I start and leave it on during the
application. Then I avoid creating more dust with other projects during
the setup times and my last coat comes out perfect for me.


Always looking for ways to control the dust, but can't imagine how you
attach the furnace filter to a ceiling fan. Can you please "draw" me a word
picture.

Thanks,
Gary

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Default How smooth is smooth enough? Amateur Q.

On Jan 11, 6:32 am, "m. scott veach" wrote:

...

In general, how smooth can I expect to make the surface of my desk?
Can I get it as smooth as the ones in Home Depot? Or are they that
smooth because of some other material/procedure?


After sanding, run your fingers across the surface. If it feels to
you to be as smooth as your wife's ass you're ready to apply
finish. If it feels as smooth to you as my wife's ass, watch
your back...

--

FF


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9.9 Fingers wrote:
"Twayne" wrote in message
news:m_Nhj.29$na4.11@trnddc05...
SNIP
For dust control I have a celing fan with a furnace filter
attached to it. I turn it on a couple hours before I start and
leave it on during the application. Then I avoid creating more dust
with other projects during the setup times and my last coat comes
out perfect for me.


Always looking for ways to control the dust, but can't imagine how you
attach the furnace filter to a ceiling fan. Can you please "draw" me
a word picture.

Thanks,
Gary


I'll try, but I can send a pic or two if this doesn't work. It's really
pretty simple.
AH, I see! Not a "celing fan" but a fan ON the ceiling. Sorry if I
made that confusing!

I have a 20 x 20 box fan suspended from the celing so it can be aimed
from near horizontal in either direction or straight down at the work,
especially the table saw to push stray dust out of my way when I saw.
For finishing, I use a 20 x 20 furnace filter and just tape it over
the "in" side of the fan. I use paper shipping tape bacause they get
dirty pretty fast at first. I run the fan a medium speed.
I'll also vacuum off the dust a couple times until the air starts
getting clear, then when I'm ready to finish I put a new filter on it.
They only cost about a buck apiece at Lowes; same ones as my house
furnace uses, in fact.

When the fan is running the filter will stay in place without any tape,
but you do have to tape it so the filter will stay in place when you
turn the fan off.

No, it's never harmed the fan and it pulls the air thru the filter just
fine. When I'm not doing finishing I'll usually aim it straight down
and toss a 10 x 10 on it for GP's of catching the dust. Keeps the shop
overal cleaner it seems.

Twayne


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"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message
...


After sanding, run your fingers across the surface. If it feels to
you to be as smooth as your wife's ass you're ready to apply
finish. If it feels as smooth to you as my wife's ass, watch
your back...


unless your wife weighs 300lbs and has pimples on her ass. If she does -
keep sanding.

--

-Mike-



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Default How smooth is smooth enough? Amateur Q.

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:


"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message
.
..


After sanding, run your fingers across the surface. If it feels to
you to be as smooth as your wife's ass you're ready to apply
finish. If it feels as smooth to you as my wife's ass, watch
your back...


unless your wife weighs 300lbs and has pimples on her ass. If she
does - keep sanding.


the wood or the wife?


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Default How smooth is smooth enough? Amateur Q.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 19:06:48 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:


unless your wife weighs 300lbs and has pimples on her ass. If she does -
keep sanding.



Her ass? G
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"Mike Marlow" wrote

unless your wife weighs 300lbs and has pimples on her ass. If she does -
keep sanding.


Confucius say: "If wife's ass feels smooth, you need new girlfriend!"

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)


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Default How smooth is smooth enough? Amateur Q.

Twayne wrote:

For dust control I have a celing fan with a furnace filter attached
to it.


It is also much easier to control dust if you use a water based finish
simply because the surface dries to touch must faster than any oil based
finish. This gives dust much, much less time to stick.

John
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Default How smooth is smooth enough? Amateur Q.

On Jan 10, 10:32*pm, "m. scott veach" wrote:
I'm a stone-cold amateur at woodworking. *Doing my very first project
of any kind: *making a simple desk out of some plywood and electrical
conduits for legs.


Metal tube legs joined to a plywood top? That's HARD.
Wood legs joined to a skirt, with the skirt clamped to the
top, is much easier. Trying to mate metal to wood only works
well (without squeaking and fragility) if the metal is a flat plate.
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In article ,
"m. scott veach" writes:
I'm a stone-cold amateur at woodworking. Doing my very first project
of any kind: making a simple desk out of some plywood and electrical
conduits for legs.

I am sanding the plywood (birch) and I realized that I don't know when
I am done...


I've made a couple of desks in the past. The first one wasn't smooth enough.
When you write on it, the grain shows thru to the paper. So I learn from that
to use a piece of paper and a #2 pencil to check for smoothness. Put the
paper on the desk and, using the side of the lead, shade an area of the paper.
If it comes out evenly shaded, you're done. If the wood grain is obvious, sand
some more.

And yes, the polyurathane will smooth things out if you can avoid runs and
drips. But a smooth starting surface helps a lot and requires fewer layers.

And as others have mentioned, be careful about sanding thru the plywood.

--

Mike McDonald



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Default How smooth is smooth enough? Amateur Q.

The best deal I've found for making a table with metal legs is to use "Curry
Legs" from Ikea. For something like ten or twenty dollars you get a really
nicely painted set of sturdy metal tube legs, complete with flanges for
attaching to wood. What you attach them to is up to you. I've got two very
functional computer tables made out of scrap interior doors with a couple of
1/2" plywood strips glued to the underside for strength. The legs are
attached to the plywood. I'd recommend these over electrical conduit any
day.

- Owen -

"whit3rd" wrote in message
...
On Jan 10, 10:32 pm, "m. scott veach" wrote:
I'm a stone-cold amateur at woodworking. Doing my very first project
of any kind: making a simple desk out of some plywood and electrical
conduits for legs.


Metal tube legs joined to a plywood top? That's HARD.
Wood legs joined to a skirt, with the skirt clamped to the
top, is much easier. Trying to mate metal to wood only works
well (without squeaking and fragility) if the metal is a flat plate.


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