I never did come across any handy dandy advice for laying these out, so I
thought I'd share what worked, leaving out all my tales of woe about what I
did wrong before I discovered this method.

If I had it all to do over again, I would have started with a much more
simple beginning than I did, so I suggest you do as I say, rather than I
did. Mark one line perpendicular to the front of your bench. Now measure
the first and second courses of dog holes and mark two lines parallel to
the front of your bench.

Mark these two holes very carefully with an awl. You could do three or more
holes as well. More holes further apart will probably make for more
accuracy later.

Now find a piece of perf board with 1/8" holes. Bigger is better. The one
I had on-hand was large enough to mark six hole locations, but I think it
would have been more accurate if it had been both longer and wider.

Pick a corner hole and circle it. Measure the distance between centers in
the perf board. 1" is probably standard. That's what mine was. Now mark
out as many holes as you can, spaced out at your target distance. For six
inch centers with 1" hole spacing, you need five empty holes between every
circled one. (If you're going for 7 3/4" spacing or something like that,
then you'll have to figure out something else--this method is useless to
you.)

Now find some nails that are as close to 1/8" in diameter as you can manage.
Poke a nail through your first circled corner, then tap it into the first
hole you marked with your awl. You want the nail to stick, but you don't
want it to be difficult to remove.

Spin the perf board around until you're lined up with the other hole(s) you
marked on your line and then tap another nail into this one. Now tap nails
into the centers of the remaining circled holes, using as much care as
humanly possible to ensure that the nails go straight into the center.

If you used a big piece of perf board, you might be done already. If you
used a smaller one like I did, you'll need to pull up the nails and move
it. I suggest moving it so that you re-engage at least four holes, on at
least two different courses, which have already been tapped. On my
six-hole board that meant I only got two new holes for each move of the
perf board, but I feel it increased my chances of accuracy.

When you get to the far edges, have a care to stay within your 3" or
whatever margins. Otherwise just tap away. When you're done, you should
have a board full of perfectly spaced little dimples that are just the
right size to center the spur on a Forstner bit.

I drilled using a hardwood guide I made by boring a piece of scrap on my
drill press. It produced satisfactory, though less than perfect results.
Some kind of drill guide thingie would probably be preferable.

Anyway, that's what worked. The spacing is still not 100% spot on, but it's
close enough that the slop factor from slightly wallowed out hand-drilled
holes gives me enough lateral play to make things fit between any two holes
without having to take a hammer to anything.

If for some reason you're one of the people out there who hasn't gotten
around to drilling dog holes yet (why else would you have read this far?
then you'll really be glad you did once you've done it. Dog holes are
awesome!

Well, I hope this helps someone. Everyone feel free to chime in with
suggestions for improvement or to just generally point out that I did this
a stupid way, and I should never have posted this message.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Unless I'm misunderstanding your use of the peg board, it seems as though
you were concerned about precise spacing of your dog holes. Why? I haven't
found a use for dog holes that required any particular spacing accuracy at
all. In general you use one or two holes to push against with an end vise
or wedge or whatever. What did you have in mind? I just laid the holes out
with a tape measure and pencil, using a spacing equal to 1/2 the travel of
my end vise (~6").

Regarding drilling, this comes up on the rec pretty often. How to drill
holes after the benchtop is complete? I used my benchtop drill press. I
turned the head stock around on the column, so that it was away from the
table and base, and slipped it down the column to the height appropriate for
my forstner bit. Not all DP's will do this, but many will. Then I
positioned the bit over the -soon to be a hole- location, clamped the DP
base to the table with cauls, and drilled away. Worked perfectly.

--
Bill Pounds
http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop


"Silvan" wrote in message
...
I never did come across any handy dandy advice for laying these out, so I
thought I'd share what worked, leaving out all my tales of woe about what
I
did wrong before I discovered this method.

If I had it all to do over again, I would have started with a much more
simple beginning than I did, so I suggest you do as I say, rather than I
did. Mark one line perpendicular to the front of your bench. Now measure
the first and second courses of dog holes and mark two lines parallel to
the front of your bench.

Mark these two holes very carefully with an awl. You could do three or
more
holes as well. More holes further apart will probably make for more
accuracy later.

Now find a piece of perf board with 1/8" holes. Bigger is better. The
one
I had on-hand was large enough to mark six hole locations, but I think it
would have been more accurate if it had been both longer and wider.

Pick a corner hole and circle it. Measure the distance between centers in
the perf board. 1" is probably standard. That's what mine was. Now mark
out as many holes as you can, spaced out at your target distance. For six
inch centers with 1" hole spacing, you need five empty holes between every
circled one. (If you're going for 7 3/4" spacing or something like that,
then you'll have to figure out something else--this method is useless to
you.)

Now find some nails that are as close to 1/8" in diameter as you can
manage.
Poke a nail through your first circled corner, then tap it into the first
hole you marked with your awl. You want the nail to stick, but you don't
want it to be difficult to remove.

Spin the perf board around until you're lined up with the other hole(s)
you
marked on your line and then tap another nail into this one. Now tap
nails
into the centers of the remaining circled holes, using as much care as
humanly possible to ensure that the nails go straight into the center.

If you used a big piece of perf board, you might be done already. If you
used a smaller one like I did, you'll need to pull up the nails and move
it. I suggest moving it so that you re-engage at least four holes, on at
least two different courses, which have already been tapped. On my
six-hole board that meant I only got two new holes for each move of the
perf board, but I feel it increased my chances of accuracy.

When you get to the far edges, have a care to stay within your 3" or
whatever margins. Otherwise just tap away. When you're done, you should
have a board full of perfectly spaced little dimples that are just the
right size to center the spur on a Forstner bit.

I drilled using a hardwood guide I made by boring a piece of scrap on my
drill press. It produced satisfactory, though less than perfect results.
Some kind of drill guide thingie would probably be preferable.

Anyway, that's what worked. The spacing is still not 100% spot on, but
it's
close enough that the slop factor from slightly wallowed out hand-drilled
holes gives me enough lateral play to make things fit between any two
holes
without having to take a hammer to anything.

If for some reason you're one of the people out there who hasn't gotten
around to drilling dog holes yet (why else would you have read this far?
then you'll really be glad you did once you've done it. Dog holes are
awesome!

Well, I hope this helps someone. Everyone feel free to chime in with
suggestions for improvement or to just generally point out that I did this
a stupid way, and I should never have posted this message.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Pounds on Wood wrote:

Unless I'm misunderstanding your use of the peg board, it seems as though
you were concerned about precise spacing of your dog holes. Why? I

Because Sam Allen told me to do it that way.

Something on the order of "It's very important to lay out your dog holes
accurately...." No hints or tips for how to accomplish that though, hence
my post.

Now that I've had a chance to piddle with it, it worked. I have a couple of
boards with two dowels in them, and I can stick them everywhere except the
corner I started in, before I hit upon my bright pegboard idea.

Regarding drilling, this comes up on the rec pretty often. How to drill
holes after the benchtop is complete? I used my benchtop drill press. I

That's not a bad idea. Wouldn't have worked for me, because I don't have a
benchtop drill press. I traded up for a big'un and sold the little one to
fund some project or other.

I got it done though. Spent the day sharpening everything that I abused
during the construction. When I get back from work Tuesday night, I'll be
ready to surface some lumber and build something cool.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

"Pounds on Wood" wrote in message
...
Unless I'm misunderstanding your use of the peg board, it seems as though
you were concerned about precise spacing of your dog holes. Why?

The reason you need accurate dog hole spacing is that there are a lot of
bench jigs that use two of the dog holes to hold the jig in place (I'm
thinking mainly of bench stops). So, if you have a stop that has 3/4" dowel
pegs on 12" centers and your dog holes are 11 7/8" or 12 1/8" apart, instead
of 12" then you're screwed. It might seem that you could just build the jig
to your particular bench, but if you use a full grid of dog holes then you
will likely only be able to use the jig on the two specific holes you used
to set up the jig - that's pretty limiting.

Aside from the practical reasons I've mentioned here, why not be accurate?
It isn't that hard at all, and I think Silvan came up with a reasonably good
way to get it pretty good. Seems silly to forgo maybe 20-30 minutes extra
effort which will get you a better laid-out doghole grid for no good reason.


Regarding drilling, this comes up on the rec pretty often. How to drill
holes after the benchtop is complete? I used my benchtop drill press. I
turned the head stock around on the column, so that it was away from the
table and base, and slipped it down the column to the height appropriate
for
my forstner bit. Not all DP's will do this, but many will. Then I
positioned the bit over the -soon to be a hole- location, clamped the DP
base to the table with cauls, and drilled away. Worked perfectly.

That's not a bad idea, but it seems pretty laborious (the bench I'm making
now, modeled after Sam Allen's joiners bench has 40+ dog holes in the top).
I'm using a right-angle drill guide and it works great and doesn't weigh 75
lbs.

Mike

"Mike in Mystic" wrote in message
om...

The reason you need accurate dog hole spacing is that there are a lot of
bench jigs that use two of the dog holes to hold the jig in place (I'm
thinking mainly of bench stops). So, if you have a stop that has 3/4"
dowel
pegs on 12" centers and your dog holes are 11 7/8" or 12 1/8" apart,
instead
of 12" then you're screwed. It might seem that you could just build the
jig
to your particular bench, but if you use a full grid of dog holes then you
will likely only be able to use the jig on the two specific holes you used
to set up the jig - that's pretty limiting.

That is a good reason why, which is what I asked. I haven't needed such
jigs, but I can see where they could be useful. BTW, you may underestimate
my accuracy with a tape measure.


Aside from the practical reasons I've mentioned here, why not be accurate?
It isn't that hard at all, and I think Silvan came up with a reasonably
good
way to get it pretty good. Seems silly to forgo maybe 20-30 minutes extra
effort which will get you a better laid-out doghole grid for no good
reason.

Of course, no reason not to.


That's not a bad idea, but it seems pretty laborious (the bench I'm making
now, modeled after Sam Allen's joiners bench has 40+ dog holes in the
top).
I'm using a right-angle drill guide and it works great and doesn't weigh
75
lbs.

I'm sure that works too, although I don't ever plan to own a drill guide. I
guess they work but driving a forstner bit through 3" of hard maple with a
hand drill, guided or not does not sound accurate or fun. I'm glad it
worked for you. BTW, it doesn't have to be a benchtop DP, any that will
slide down the column would work, but yes it is heavy. Me used to be strong
like bull :-)

--
Bill Pounds
http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop

"Pounds on Wood" wrote in message
s.com...

"Mike in Mystic" wrote in message
om...

That's not a bad idea, but it seems pretty laborious (the bench I'm
making
now, modeled after Sam Allen's joiners bench has 40+ dog holes in the
top).
I'm using a right-angle drill guide and it works great and doesn't weigh
75
lbs.

I'm sure that works too, although I don't ever plan to own a drill guide.
I
guess they work but driving a forstner bit through 3" of hard maple with a
hand drill, guided or not does not sound accurate or fun. I'm glad it
worked for you. BTW, it doesn't have to be a benchtop DP, any that will
slide down the column would work, but yes it is heavy. Me used to be
strong
like bull :-)

Hehe. Well, what I use to drill dog holes is my cordless Milwaukee 14.4
volt 460 in/lbs. of torque (I know, not as much as the latest and greatest
impact driver, but oh well) and a 3/4" auger bit. Since these are
through-holes, there's not really any particular reason to use a forstner
bit, and auger bits are practically self-driving. So, as long as you get
the hole started properly, it's a snap. Of course, I'm not drilling through
hard maple as you were/are. Still, drilling through 3 sheets of 3/4" MDF
isn't particularly nice to drill bits either.

Mike