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Default Beginner - making accurate 90 degree cuts by hand

Hi,
I'm making a housing for an electronic musical instrument - basically
a box, sloping down from back to front, with a metal faceplate on top
instead of a lid. I'm using black walnut.
I want to use what I think are called box joints or finger joints to
join the four side pieces. I've marked up my pieces, and I did the
same on some scraps and tried cutting joints as a test. Now I'm doing
this by hand with a basic dovetail saw, as I don't have a table saw,
and I don't see how to make sure that I'm cutting straight, and
perpendicular to the top edge.

In my test, I tried clamping two pieces together, offsetting them by
the width of the saw blade, and cutting into the waste sections, so
doing both pieces at the same time. The cuts were often not straight
enough.

Two problems:
1. Marking up. The vertical edge of my piece of wood is cut by hand,
so it won't always be exactly square to the bottom horizontal edge. So
if I use a 90 degree square from the vertical edge to mark up the
horizontal join cuts, they won't always be exactly parallel with
bottom edge.
2. It's difficult to cut in a straight line!

Any tips? Should I be using a saw guide of some kind? I have a feeling
I will get better results just cutting one piece of wood at a time,
instead of trying the two clamped together trick.

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Default Beginner - making accurate 90 degree cuts by hand


wrote in message
Any tips? Should I be using a saw guide of some kind? I have a feeling
I will get better results just cutting one piece of wood at a time,
instead of trying the two clamped together trick.


A saw guide would make it quite a bit easier. Here's a few workable but
cheaper ones. The price goes up from there.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...21&cat=1,42884
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...55&cat=1,42884
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...66&cat=1,42884
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...69&cat=1,42884


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Default Beginner - making accurate 90 degree cuts by hand

Polish the saw blade to a shiny (mirror) finish. Mark a line square
across the edge and along the face as deep as the box joint goes. When
cutting follow either line but make sure that the reflected image on
the saw blade is dead straight. The cut will be 90 in both directions.
A trick taught me by an old framing carpenter more than 35 years ago.
It works.

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Default Beginner - making accurate 90 degree cuts by hand

On Aug 17, 12:51 pm, Maxwell Lol wrote:
writes:
Two problems:
1. Marking up. The vertical edge of my piece of wood is cut by hand,
so it won't always be exactly square to the bottom horizontal edge. So
if I use a 90 degree square from the vertical edge to mark up the
horizontal join cuts, they won't always be exactly parallel with
bottom edge.
2. It's difficult to cut in a straight line!


Any tips? Should I be using a saw guide of some kind? I have a feeling
I will get better results just cutting one piece of wood at a time,
instead of trying the two clamped together trick.


You have two choices - by machine or by hand.

The cheapest "machine" jig for making box joints I know is a router
and a set of templates. It's about $25 by Woodhaven:

http://www.woodhaven.com/SearchResul...CategoryID=252

You also need a router bit and guide bushings.

If you do it by hand, then you will need to practice. You need to
learn how to draw a thin line, and saw so you just follow that line
exactly.

Also make sure all ends are square and parallel.


I have a handheld router, but I thought I would need to invest in a
router table to do this. I'll look into the options.

Squaring off is pretty difficult when you're using a handsaw. I think
this was one of the main problems with my test run.



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Default Beginner - making accurate 90 degree cuts by hand

On Aug 17, 1:40 pm, wrote:
Polish the saw blade to a shiny (mirror) finish. Mark a line square
across the edge and along the face as deep as the box joint goes. When
cutting follow either line but make sure that the reflected image on
the saw blade is dead straight. The cut will be 90 in both directions.
A trick taught me by an old framing carpenter more than 35 years ago.
It works.


Nice tip, thanks.

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Default Beginner - making accurate 90 degree cuts by hand

beatbox wrote:

Squaring off is pretty difficult when you're using a handsaw.


That's what saw guides are for. Not to mention low angle block
planes.

You might want to give up on the box joint idea until you are able to
get an end that is square in all directions. First things first
IOW...

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico



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Default Beginner - making accurate 90 degree cuts by hand

wrote:

Any tips? Should I be using a saw guide of some kind?


You might want to look into the Veritas Right-Angle Saw Guide[1].
I have one of these and the Veritas Dovetail Saw as well. Like you,
I'm not very good at cutting straight with a hand saw, so this
little tool works very well for me. I've also got the 1:8 dovetail
guide[2] as well.

I have a feeling I will get better results just cutting one piece of
wood at a time, instead of trying the two clamped together trick.


That's how I've done box joints, cut by hand. I do mine in a similar
fashion to the way I do dovetails. I'll start by cutting all the
pins/fingers on say the front and back sides of the box. Now that I've
got the front and back sides cut, I'll use those to lay out my lines
on the left and right sides of the box.

When you're marking things, it also helps to have some type of
numbering/label system so that you can keep track of the front side of
a piece, its orientation and which is the left and which is the right
side. If you don't all ready have a system worked out, here's what I
do:

For the front piece I number the left side 14 and the right side 12.
The first digit 1 represents the first piece. The second digit
represents which piece it connects to.

The right side gets labeled 21 on its left side and 23 on its right
side.

The back side gets labeled 32 on its left side and 34 on its right
side.

The left sides labeled 43 on its left side and 41 on its right side.


Thus you would use the pins/fingers of 12 to mark out the 21 side and
the pins/fingers of 14 to mark out the 41 side. Then the pins/fingers
of 32 are used to lay out 23. Then 34 is used to lay out 43.

For the orientation part, I just draw an arrow on the piece to
represent which direction is "up". The sides that have marking on
them are the outside of the box. I mark the outside because it will
be easier to scrap/sand those markings off later after they've been
glued up.

When you're doing your mark ups. It also helps to put an 'X' or other
mark in the waste section. I forgot to do that on a couple of pieces,
got distracted and wound up cutting into the wrong areas and ruining
one of my box sides.


[1]:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...69&cat=1,42884
[2]: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...18&cat=1,42884

--

If you want to reply via email, change the obvious words to numbers and
remove ".invalid".
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Default Beginner - making accurate 90 degree cuts by hand


wrote in message ups.com...
Hi,
I'm making a housing for an electronic musical instrument - basically
a box, sloping down from back to front, with a metal faceplate on top
instead of a lid. I'm using black walnut.
I want to use what I think are called box joints or finger joints to
join the four side pieces. I've marked up my pieces, and I did the
same on some scraps and tried cutting joints as a test. Now I'm doing
this by hand with a basic dovetail saw, as I don't have a table saw,
and I don't see how to make sure that I'm cutting straight, and
perpendicular to the top edge.

In my test, I tried clamping two pieces together, offsetting them by
the width of the saw blade, and cutting into the waste sections, so
doing both pieces at the same time. The cuts were often not straight
enough.

Two problems:
1. Marking up. The vertical edge of my piece of wood is cut by hand,
so it won't always be exactly square to the bottom horizontal edge. So
if I use a 90 degree square from the vertical edge to mark up the
horizontal join cuts, they won't always be exactly parallel with
bottom edge.
2. It's difficult to cut in a straight line!

Any tips? Should I be using a saw guide of some kind? I have a feeling
I will get better results just cutting one piece of wood at a time,
instead of trying the two clamped together trick.


Cutting both pieces together will be, ah, interesting, as the cut needs to be on one side of the line
for one piece and the other side of the line for the other piece.
Best to mark them out together, but cut them separately. If you make a balls, its then only one piece
messed up, not both.


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Default Beginner - making accurate 90 degree cuts by hand


wrote:

I'm making a housing for an electronic musical instrument -

basically
a box, sloping down from back to front, with a metal faceplate on

top
instead of a lid. I'm using black walnut.
I want to use what I think are called box joints or finger joints to
join the four side pieces.

snip

Take a look at Fred Bingham's book, Practical Yacht Joinery.

Has sketches showing how it's done.

Lew





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Default Beginner - making accurate 90 degree cuts by hand

If you have a hand held router you should look into a template. You
can then do box joints or dovetails.

Here is the cheapest template system I could find
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?Offerings_ID=2114

But this is probably better but $130
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=5279

On Aug 17, 6:21 am, beatbox wrote:
On Aug 17, 12:51 pm, Maxwell Lol wrote:





writes:
Two problems:
1. Marking up. The vertical edge of my piece of wood is cut by hand,
so it won't always be exactly square to the bottom horizontal edge. So
if I use a 90 degree square from the vertical edge to mark up the
horizontal join cuts, they won't always be exactly parallel with
bottom edge.
2. It's difficult to cut in a straight line!


Any tips? Should I be using a saw guide of some kind? I have a feeling
I will get better results just cutting one piece of wood at a time,
instead of trying the two clamped together trick.


You have two choices - by machine or by hand.


The cheapest "machine" jig for making box joints I know is a router
and a set of templates. It's about $25 by Woodhaven:


http://www.woodhaven.com/SearchResul...CategoryID=252


You also need a router bit and guide bushings.


If you do it by hand, then you will need to practice. You need to
learn how to draw a thin line, and saw so you just follow that line
exactly.


Also make sure all ends are square and parallel.


I have a handheld router, but I thought I would need to invest in a
router table to do this. I'll look into the options.

Squaring off is pretty difficult when you're using a handsaw. I think
this was one of the main problems with my test run.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



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Default Beginner - making accurate 90 degree cuts by hand

Thanks all, useful ideas in there...

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Default Beginner - making accurate 90 degree cuts by hand

On Aug 17, 7:09 am, wrote:
Hi,
I'm making a housing for an electronic musical instrument - basically
a box, sloping down from back to front, with a metal faceplate on top
instead of a lid. I'm using black walnut.
I want to use what I think are called box joints or finger joints to
join the four side pieces. I've marked up my pieces, and I did the
same on some scraps and tried cutting joints as a test. Now I'm doing
this by hand with a basic dovetail saw, as I don't have a table saw,
and I don't see how to make sure that I'm cutting straight, and
perpendicular to the top edge.

In my test, I tried clamping two pieces together, offsetting them by
the width of the saw blade, and cutting into the waste sections, so
doing both pieces at the same time. The cuts were often not straight
enough.


Heavy saw set if it wanders. Asymmetrical set if it always pulls to
the same side.

What brand saw? How thick is the lumber you're cutting?

Two problems:
1. Marking up. The vertical edge of my piece of wood is cut by hand,
so it won't always be exactly square to the bottom horizontal edge. So
if I use a 90 degree square from the vertical edge to mark up the
horizontal join cuts, they won't always be exactly parallel with
bottom edge.
2. It's difficult to cut in a straight line!

Any tips? Should I be using a saw guide of some kind? I have a feeling
I will get better results just cutting one piece of wood at a time,
instead of trying the two clamped together trick.


Stand back and shift left and right until the two lines on the
adjoining
surfaces look like a single line. Put the saw on the line and cut,
eyeballing the saw and the line(s) together.

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Default Beginner - making accurate 90 degree cuts by hand

beatbox wrote in news:1187356905.250738.95140@
22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

snip

I have a handheld router, but I thought I would need to invest in a
router table to do this. I'll look into the options.


A decent router table can be made, for at least many uses, from a piece of
good, flat plywood. Drill a hole large enough for the bit, and screw the
router to the ply, with the bit extended through. Set it on sawhorses, a
Workmate, or screw it to a workbench...

Lots of the kitchen cabinet folks use such tables in the field all the
time. Upside: cheap, portable, quick to make. Downside: chip collection.

A fence can be as simple as a straight piece of stock clamped where it
needs to be.

I've done this with a Porter Cable 69x series router, and it works well.

back to your regular programming

Patriarch
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Default Beginner - making accurate 90 degree cuts by hand

beatbox writes:

http://www.woodhaven.com/SearchResul...CategoryID=252


I have a handheld router, but I thought I would need to invest in a
router table to do this. I'll look into the options.



The way this box jig works, you need some spaced blocks, and clamp and
route both ends at the same time. There is a offset you need for one
of the boards, to make sure the joint lines up.


I think I used a backing board out of pieces of plywood, some spacer
blocks, and four clamps.


I seem to recall that when I bought this, there was a complete set
including router bit, guide bushing, etc. for something like $50.

But I don't see this option any more om the web page.
The picture shows the setup
http://www.woodhaven.com/Images/Cate...tTemplates.jpg
But it's a thumbnail. :-(

Perhaps you can call them for more info.

But I think this is one of the cheapest machined box jig you can get.
(You CAN make your own.....)



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Default Beginner - making accurate 90 degree cuts by hand

For a nice straight edge on a hand cut board cut the board by hand
about 1/8" long. Use a framing square to clamp a straight edge
perpendicular to the long edge of the lumber. Use your router with a
straight bit to trim the cut edge to a perfectly straight end.

For box joints get an adjustable dovetail jig.


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"Oughtsix" wrote in message
ups.com...
For a nice straight edge on a hand cut board cut the board by hand
about 1/8" long. Use a framing square to clamp a straight edge
perpendicular to the long edge of the lumber. Use your router with a
straight bit to trim the cut edge to a perfectly straight end.

For box joints get an adjustable dovetail jig.


Or take a couple of classes and learn to cut them square by hand. Three
days at Homestead Heritage or a similar school will leave you with the
knowledge and skill to do it.
http://www.homesteadheritage-woodworking.com/index.html

I'm sure Woodcraft will have weekend classes.

If you take this approach, you will save a lot of money on tools.


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"Michael Faurot" wrote in message
...
Lowell Holmes wrote:

snip


At some point I would like to take the whole Foundation Course as well
as a number of the other courses they offer. For anyone that's living
in or near to Waco, TX--you owe it to yourself to check this place
out.

[1]: http://www.homesteadheritage-woodwor...ndational.html
[2]: https://www.homesteadheritage-woodwo...ng-course.html

--



Now that is the slippery slope. I've taken both of their rocking chair
classes and I'm going to the Windsor chair class in October.


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Lowell Holmes wrote:

:
: Or take a couple of classes and learn to cut them square by hand. Three
: days at Homestead Heritage or a similar school will leave you with the
: knowledge and skill to do it.

And three hours with a router and a jig will cut a bajillion
box joints cleaner and better than pretty much anyone could cut them by
hand.

AFAIK, box joints were always traditionally cut by machine.

-- Andy Barss

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"Andrew Barss" wrote in message
...
Lowell Holmes wrote:

:
: Or take a couple of classes and learn to cut them square by hand. Three
: days at Homestead Heritage or a similar school will leave you with the
: knowledge and skill to do it.

And three hours with a router and a jig will cut a bajillion
box joints cleaner and better than pretty much anyone could cut them by
hand.

AFAIK, box joints were always traditionally cut by machine.

-- Andy Barss


What in blazes does making box joints have to do with this string?

If I want to make box joints I do it on my cs. If I want to make dovetails I
have the choice of doing them by hand or on my Leigh jig. If I want to make
m&t joints I have a choice of making them by hand or on my cs and bs. The
question was how do you cut a square end on a board by hand.
When you are finishing a project and need to make small adjustments to your
piece, having a few hand skills is a real advantage. :-)




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"Michael Faurot" wrote in
:
snippage
If you take this approach, you will save a lot of money on tools.


Not necessarily. I think my collection of *quality* hand tools
has doubled since I took the Woodworking With Hand Tools course.
I believe this is what many refer to as "the slippery slope".


I would chip in in agreement here. There's much more invested in my
handplane assortment than in a new Unisaw with goodies and stuff. Add to
that handsaws, chisels, etc., and you find the slope well slicked...

Back to your regular programming...

Patriarch
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On Aug 17, 9:29 pm, Patriarch wrote:
wrote in news:1187356905.250738.95140@
22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

snip



I have a handheld router, but I thought I would need to invest in a
router table to do this. I'll look into the options.


A decent router table can be made, for at least many uses, from a piece of
good, flat plywood. Drill a hole large enough for the bit, and screw the
router to the ply, with the bit extended through. Set it on sawhorses, a
Workmate, or screw it to a workbench...

Lots of the kitchen cabinet folks use such tables in the field all the
time. Upside: cheap, portable, quick to make. Downside: chip collection.

A fence can be as simple as a straight piece of stock clamped where it
needs to be.

I've done this with a Porter Cable 69x series router, and it works well.

back to your regular programming

Patriarch


Thanks,
I think I will try this at some point.

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