I've got a job in the shop that needs an excellent quality paint
finish. I usually use pigmented lacquer but the customer insists that
I use the same paint as was used for the trim in the room where the
piece is going in. Latex trim paint. Yechh.

I'm trying to view this as an opportunity to get a piece of equipment
that will spray cabinet grade paint finishes but can also be used to
spray exterior house paint. I've got lots of use for the exterior
house paint ability at my place - as my wife reminds me every time I
sit down for more than ten minutes.

I know nothing about this.

I hate painting.

I've seen the painters use spray equipment on jobsites for trim and
walls but never paid much mind to it. I was just happy if they didn't
spray my work and tools.

I've tried to thin paint for spraying in my three stage HVLP setup but
I'm afraid that the level of thinning required compromises the coating
chemistry.

I need some help from the paint spraying mavens on the group.


Regards, Tom.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

customer insists that
I use .... Latex trim paint.

I shot a louvered wood door with latex. It was actually not a problem using a
regular spray gun. I thinned the paint a little with water. This was a satin
finish. It may have been harder with a gloss. Just practice on some similar
scrap until you get the thinning right. It took me a couple tries.

Whoda thunk...me giving advice to a master craftsman.......;-)

I share your disdain for painting and I found it rather weird that the one
response (so far) states he had good results using a "regular" spray gun and
that you were having to thin the paint to much using HVLP. Something is
amiss here.

Last summer I had 40 cabinet doors to prime and paint and tried using a
regular spray gun (tried several nozzle sizes, etc.) and had very poor
results no matter what I tried (thinning, FlowTrol, etc.). Finally talked
to a pro painter and he said I need a HVLP spray outfit to get good results
with latex. Research on the web (AW and FWW sites as examples) showed he
was correct. I don't recall all the details but there are a number of
articles covering HVLP systems and how to use them.

Since I wasn't obligated to final finishing these doors (sister-in-law was),
I did the priming using the regular spray gun and the first finish coat
using a quality brush and FlowTrol. I must admit, that after sanding out
the primer and then applying the first coat of finish paint by brush to the
panels, it looked like it was sprayed on - thanks to the FlowTrol. Second
coat was done by others....(oh well...)

Tom, I would suspect there may be a problem with your system 'cause the
experts say HVLP is the only way to get latex paint down properly for a
"furniture grade" finish. Maybe the wrong nozzle, pressure setting,
cleaning......???

Bob S.

"Tom Watson" writes:

I've got a job in the shop that needs an excellent quality paint
finish.
snip
I'm trying to view this as an opportunity to get a piece of equipment
that will spray cabinet grade paint finishes but can also be used to
spray exterior house paint.
snip
I know nothing about this.

I hate painting.

I also knew nothing about the subject and also hate to paint; however, like
you needed to learn.

A little background:

Shooting 2-part linear poly on a boat is probably the most difficult paint
job possible with the possible exception of commercial airplanes.

A mirror finish without any runs is the minimum standard.

LP materials are in excess of $100/gal, even if you get a good discount, so
you don't want to make mistakes.

The standard for that job is a DeVilbiss JGA gun, a 2 qt remote pressure pot
and a connecting hose.

Expect to pay about $400-$450 for the package, even with a trade discount.

You will need a compressor that can deliver at least 15 SCFM on a continuous
basis.

I have a 5 HP, two stage unit with an 80 gal reservoir that does the job.

Package does a great job IMHO.

Think of it like buying a good cabinet saw.

It only hurts onceG.

HTH


--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 20:18:38 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

The standard for that job is a DeVilbiss JGA gun, a 2 qt remote pressure pot
and a connecting hose.

Expect to pay about $400-$450 for the package, even with a trade discount.

You will need a compressor that can deliver at least 15 SCFM on a continuous
basis.

I have a 5 HP, two stage unit with an 80 gal reservoir that does the job.

Package does a great job IMHO.

Think of it like buying a good cabinet saw.

It only hurts onceG.

HTH


Thanks Lew.

Your advice is good and I still have my old Binks 2001 from when I
used to spray HP.

Unfortunately I've gotten rid of the big compressor that used to make
it work.

In a clipboard over my desk I have a picture of a spiffy
Ingersoll-Rand 80 gallon upright and the only thing I need to turn it
from tool porn into reality is about fifteen hundred bucks.

sigh


Regards, Tom.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 02:53:31 GMT, "Preston Andreas"
wrote:

Tom,

I just finished spraying a bunch of passage doors this weekend. A very long
weekend.



I have a Graco, 4-stage turbine HVLP with a 2 quart remote pot. Since latex
is thick, I figured I needed a big tip to get the necessary flow, so I
dropped $90 for a #6 (2.5 mm) set which calls for 26+ seconds on a Ford #4
viscosity cup. That is the biggest tip made for this equipment. I already
have the #2 - #5 tips.


Thanks for taking the time to post that thorough reply, Preston.

Your experience pretty much mimics mine. I've tried maxing out the
viscosity reducers and played with the tips and caps but it comes down
to the same thing that you speak of - it's too damned slow.

I don't have a problem getting a good finish with my HVLP rig. I have
a problem getting a good finish laid on before I starve to death.

Thanks for the info.

(watson still searches for the grail...)


Regards, Tom.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

Just make her some wooden teeth and get the compressor.... Just tell her "If
it was good enough for George Washington...."

Bob S.

Tom Watson responds:

That I/R compressor starts looking better and better, even at $1,500 G.


Early returns say that you might just be right, Lew.

Unfortunately, my eleven year old just got braces (and we got a new
payment book).

I shoulda been a Dentist.

Orthodontist, Tom, not just any old dentist. I do recall that payment book.
Thicker than the Manhattan phone directory, IIRC.

The same office is now serving two of my grandkids. Prices are higher, with
more options--clear braces, for Pete's sake!

The business seems to have a different owner, but there is no lack of new
clients. Something like four dental chairs, a dozen seats in the waiting room,
and usually all chairs full and a double load waiting.

Amazing.

Charlie Self

"Men willingly believe what they wish."
Julius Caesar, De Bello Gallico

On 10 Sep 2003 21:11:35 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:


Orthodontist, Tom, not just any old dentist. I do recall that payment book.
Thicker than the Manhattan phone directory, IIRC.


I don't know what kinda dentist the sumbitch is but the sumbitch put a
big bite on my monthly budget.

Sumbitch!



Regards, Tom
Tom Watson - Woodworker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

Tom Watson wrote:

I don't know what kinda dentist the sumbitch is but the sumbitch put a
big bite on my monthly budget.

Convince him that he needs some custom made furnishings and reciprocate.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

"Nova" wrote in message
...
Tom Watson wrote:

I don't know what kinda dentist the sumbitch is but the sumbitch put
a
big bite on my monthly budget.

Convince him that he needs some custom made furnishings and
reciprocate.


You want to saw the guy in half just for being a dentist? Man, you
guys in Buffalo are tough.

Tom Watson writes:

Of course, she's a six foot tall blonde and statuesque.

I'm six foot tall but the only statue that I resemble is done by
Giacommetti - and then there's that gender problem.

Still, I could offer to make the guy a nice box to store his money in.

Yeah, well on the first part. I'm getting closer to 6' all the time. Not too
long ago, I was 6' 2".

Try building the guy an ipe desk, or Brazilian cherry, or some such. That's a
good box in which he can maybe store 10-15 grand on its way to your pockets.

Charlie Self

"Men willingly believe what they wish."
Julius Caesar, De Bello Gallico

Beats Gastrolenterologists and colonoscopies. Mine commented "At
least you get to look at Pam" the nurse.

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:02:31 -0400, Tom Watson
wrote:

I shoulda been a Dentist.

Nah.

Tommy boy,
Just wait till you pay off that 'book' and they decide to take up HOCKEY.

Beat the rush; tell him you'll make a nice engraved sign so he can advertise
at the local rink !!

Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
{We share our home with two Malamutes for 'many' reasons}

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
SNIP

Convince him that he needs some custom made furnishings and reciprocate.

Damned good idea, Jack.

The woman down the road is a pretty good painter (i.e. actually makes
money at it) and traded him some artwork for some dentistry.

Of course, she's a six foot tall blonde and statuesque.

I'm six foot tall but the only statue that I resemble is done by
Giacommetti - and then there's that gender problem.

Still, I could offer to make the guy a nice box to store his money in.


Regards, Tom
Tom Watson - Woodworker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:26:04 -0400, pixelated:

Beats Gastrolenterologists and colonoscopies. Mine commented "At
least you get to look at Pam" the nurse.

Makes ya wonder what kind of person it takes to
become a rectal voyeur, doesn't it?



On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:02:31 -0400, Tom Watson
I shoulda been a Dentist.

Nah.

They do small scrimshaw work of sorts. And although they
do have a few hand tools, they're Normites, all.

--============================================--
Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.
---
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

I know that this sounds crazy but when I first opened my cabinet shop in the
mid 80's, I spent what little money I had on sub-standard tools and didn't
have anything but an old Crapsman cup gun. When I wanted to start finishing
my built-ins instead of letting the painters butcher them, I went looking
and realized the only way for me to get an adequate spray rig was to build
it. I went from garage sale to garage sale looking for a pressure cooker
with the screw down locks but couldn't find one. Finally I sprang for all
new parts, built it, and I still use the rig occasionally.

This is a brief description of what I used and what I did with it. New 2
1/2 gallon pressure cooker (big enough to set a gallon can into to make it
easier to clean up.) Brass fittings and a poly supply line for the pick-up
tube (the grey stuff for under sinks) A regulator, 2 dial pressure guages,
about 15' of 1/4" air hose and an equal amount of a hose my local paint
store said would handle laquer thinner. I removed the factory safety
pressure relief valve and the factory pressure indicator and drilled and
retapped the holes to recieve my brass fittings. One short brass nipple
with a T on top - one leg of the T with a quick connect male end to supply
the pressure, and one leg with a regulator and hose going to the gun to
supply disbursement and delivery air. The other hole (closer to the middle
of the pot) I took a brass nipple and rethreaded so the threads went futher
up and when installed in the lid of the cooker left enough for connecting my
pickup tube, and above the lid I connected the laquer proof line to run the
liquid to the gun. Then I went out and bought a DeVilBis (sp?) JGA502 and
hooked it all up and the only thing that I ever changed to this day was I
got a different tip and needle set than the one that came with the gun. I
can't remember which came with but paints like latex or even oil base take a
bigger oriface than laquer.

I pressure tested this rig to about125 lbs (hiding behind a block wall) then
when I let the pressure out I could actually see the pot get smaller so I
never pressurized over about 60 lbs again. I have had this pot on a hot
plate to heat finishes and the next place for it is for spray adhesives. I
think that I should beable to cap the inlet port and store my adhesive right
in the pot. Now I have an airless rig now that I use for most things and a
cup gun that covers the rest.

Prices have changed alot since then and today, given the same set of
circumstances, I probably would not go to all this again, but the Binks rig
I wanted with the gun I wanted and got and all the accesories that I would
have needed cost about $800 back then and I built mine with all new parts
for under $300 including the gun (no extra tip or needle). I think the
experience of building it was worth much more than the money I saved,
though. I can't imagine you wanting to go through all this but if you do I
would gladly give you any pointers I could.

Good luck and good finishing

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Tom Watson" writes:

I've got a job in the shop that needs an excellent quality paint
finish.
snip
I'm trying to view this as an opportunity to get a piece of equipment
that will spray cabinet grade paint finishes but can also be used to
spray exterior house paint.
snip
I know nothing about this.

I hate painting.

I also knew nothing about the subject and also hate to paint; however,
like
you needed to learn.

A little background:

Shooting 2-part linear poly on a boat is probably the most difficult
paint
job possible with the possible exception of commercial airplanes.

A mirror finish without any runs is the minimum standard.

LP materials are in excess of $100/gal, even if you get a good discount,
so
you don't want to make mistakes.

The standard for that job is a DeVilbiss JGA gun, a 2 qt remote pressure
pot
and a connecting hose.

Expect to pay about $400-$450 for the package, even with a trade discount.

You will need a compressor that can deliver at least 15 SCFM on a
continuous
basis.

I have a 5 HP, two stage unit with an 80 gal reservoir that does the job.

Package does a great job IMHO.

Think of it like buying a good cabinet saw.

It only hurts onceG.

HTH


--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the
Southland)
Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures