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Default Leaving Air Compressor Full

Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I
use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full.
Does this do longterm harm to the machine?


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On Apr 26, 6:50 pm, "Buck Turgidson" wrote:
Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I
use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full.
Does this do longterm harm to the machine?


no

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On Apr 26, 7:57 pm, lwhaley wrote:
On Apr 26, 6:50 pm, "Buck Turgidson" wrote:

Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I
use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full.
Does this do longterm harm to the machine?


no


I've been led to believe that the compressed air will create moisture/
condensation in the unit which obviously can do damage. I usually try
to remember to bleed mine.

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Default Leaving Air Compressor Full

In article .com,
Doug wrote:

On Apr 26, 7:57 pm, lwhaley wrote:
On Apr 26, 6:50 pm, "Buck Turgidson" wrote:

Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially
because I
use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor
full.
Does this do longterm harm to the machine?


no


I've been led to believe that the compressed air will create moisture/
condensation in the unit which obviously can do damage. I usually try
to remember to bleed mine.


Porter Cable's instructions say to bleed it every day. I thought that
was a bit excessive, and left mine full for quite a while. The other
day, I emptied it, thinking some water might have built up. Indeed,
holding it up so the exhaust was at the bottom, a considerable amount of
water came out! Had to hold it over the sink. Perhaps I'll empty it like
that every few of weeks now.

--
Jedd Haas - Artist - New Orleans, LA
http://www.gallerytungsten.com
http://www.epsno.com
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Default Leaving Air Compressor Full

Condensation building up in the tank, causing internal rust, eventually
leading to tank rupture, is a long term possibility. Compressors have a
drain valve on the tank for this reason.

--
Lloyd Baker

"Buck Turgidson" wrote in message
...
Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because
I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor
full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine?





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Default Leaving Air Compressor Full

Buck Turgidson wrote:
Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I
use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full.
Does this do longterm harm to the machine?


Yes and no.

Typically, the smaller the compressor, the less efficient, and the
more condensate it generates.

Not emptying the tank and bleeding off the condensate on a frequent
basis leads to problems.

Lew
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"Doug" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Apr 26, 7:57 pm, lwhaley wrote:
On Apr 26, 6:50 pm, "Buck Turgidson" wrote:

Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially
because I
use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor
full.
Does this do longterm harm to the machine?


no


I've been led to believe that the compressed air will create moisture/
condensation in the unit which obviously can do damage. I usually try
to remember to bleed mine.

You are on the right track.
Actually the compressed air does not create the condensation. It is the
heat generated from compressing the humid air that causes the condensation.
Take a glass of ice water out into a hot humid place and you will get
condensation on the outside of the glass. Once a compressor has stopped
running and cools the condensation stops. The longer the compressor runs
and the more heat generated the greater the condensation.
Soooo, if you let the compressor cool and bleed off just the excess
condensation there should be no more water build up when the compressor sets
idle.
Typically however, no one remembers to return to the compressor to bleed the
condensation after the compressor has cooled. Bleeding is a good practice
and total bleeding insures that you don't have to stand around waiting for
all the water to blow out.
Typically also, the faster and fewer times a compressor cycles the less
build up of condensation you will get regardless of the volume being
compressed.
If you fill an empty tank form a cool compressor tank that is not running,
there will be no condensation generated.



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"scouter3" wrote in message
...
Condensation building up in the tank, causing internal rust, eventually
leading to tank rupture, is a long term possibility. Compressors have a
drain valve on the tank for this reason.

--
Lloyd Baker

"Buck Turgidson" wrote in message
...
Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially
because I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air
compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine?





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"scouter3" wrote in message
...
Condensation building up in the tank, causing internal rust, eventually
leading to tank rupture, is a long term possibility. Compressors have a
drain valve on the tank for this reason.

--
Lloyd Baker

"Buck Turgidson" wrote in message
...
Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially
because I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air
compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine?


I just disposed of one (an old one) that rusted through. It manifest itself
through a pin hole leak in the bottom of the tank. I think if it had been
bled properly through out it's life, it would still be here.
If the condensate is rusty color, you know it is rusting.

I never leave air in my pancake compressor now. The pancake is easy to
drain. The old tank required getting down in my knees and looking under the
tank. I should have piped the drain to a valve located in the open where I
could see it. I would have drained the tank more often.


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Doug wrote:
I've been led to believe that the compressed air will create moisture/
condensation in the unit which obviously can do damage. I usually try
to remember to bleed mine.



Compressed air doesn't create moisture; it only compresses what already exists
in the atmosphere that day. The process of compression creates heat, which will
allow more moisture to stay in the vaporous state. Later, as the tank cools
down, that vapor may well condense since cool air can't hold as much moisture as
warm air.

As a former scuba instructor, I'd always taught my students to never let a tank
run completely empty as positive air pressure kept moist ambient air from
entering the tank. However scuba air is MUCH drier than shop air. Given that
shop compressors don't usually filter out moisture as scuba compressors do, it's
a bad practice to just let that moist air sit in the storage vessel, rusting it
out over time.

Bottom line... it's probably better to dump the air when you're done... at least
for shop compressors.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com




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I have a 2 HP, 20 gallon Craftsman compressor. I drain it about every five
years and never release the pressure at the end of the day.

I have been using it since 1973.

It was getting really hot when shingling so I changed the oil last fall.
Don't know if that helped--maybe I just slowed down a bit. :-)

-Doug
=================
"Buck Turgidson" wrote in message
...
Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because
I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor
full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine?



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"DouginUtah" wrote in message
...
I have a 2 HP, 20 gallon Craftsman compressor. I drain it about every five
years and never release the pressure at the end of the day.

I have been using it since 1973.

It was getting really hot when shingling so I changed the oil last fall.
Don't know if that helped--maybe I just slowed down a bit. :-)



If you lived anywhere near the coast your compressor would have filled with
water in a couple of years.


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On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:29:26 -0400, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote:

Bottom line... it's probably better to dump the air when you're done... at least
for shop compressors.



Or:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42221

or something similar
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Tom Veatch wrote:
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:29:26 -0400, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote:

Bottom line... it's probably better to dump the air when you're done... at
least for shop compressors.



Or:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42221

or something similar



Maximum pressure 100psi? Make it something similar...



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com


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In article ,
Buck Turgidson wrote:
Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I
use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full.
Does this do longterm harm to the machine?



Drain any condensation out after each use but there is no reason why the tank
can't be left pressurized.



--
Make it as simple as possible, but no simpler.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org


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Buck Turgidson wrote:
Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I
use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full.
Does this do longterm harm to the machine?



I leave my own compressor full, and know of some that have been full
for 15 years. G
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Doug wrote:

I've been led to believe that the compressed air will create moisture/
condensation in the unit which obviously can do damage. I usually try
to remember to bleed mine.


Removing water is totally different than letting out the pressure.
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In article , "Leon" wrote:

You are on the right track.
Actually the compressed air does not create the condensation. It is the
heat generated from compressing the humid air that causes the condensation.


Incorrect. It is *exactly* the compression that causes the condensation: water
that is vapor at ambient pressure can be condensed into liquid by increasing
the pressure.

Increasing temperature *cannot* cause condensation; quite the opposite, in
fact.

Take a glass of ice water out into a hot humid place and you will get
condensation on the outside of the glass.


Yes, that's because the warm water vapor in the air is being *cooled* by the
cold glass, and condenses onto it. Condensation is the result of a decrease in
temperature (that's why dew appears overnight, not in the middle of the day)
or by an increase in pressure.

Once a compressor has stopped
running and cools the condensation stops.


Again incorrect. As long as the pressure remains high, the vapor will remain
condensed.

The longer the compressor runs
and the more heat generated the greater the condensation.


Once again incorrect. It's the pressure, not the heat, that condenses the
vapor.

Soooo, if you let the compressor cool and bleed off just the excess
condensation there should be no more water build up when the compressor sets
idle.


Still off the mark.

Typically however, no one remembers to return to the compressor to bleed the
condensation after the compressor has cooled. Bleeding is a good practice
and total bleeding insures that you don't have to stand around waiting for
all the water to blow out.
Typically also, the faster and fewer times a compressor cycles the less
build up of condensation you will get regardless of the volume being
compressed.


Nonsense. The amount of condensation depends on the amount and humidity of the
air being drawn into the compressor, and the pressure to which it is
compressed. Nothing more. It has absolutely no relation to the compressor duty
cycle.

If you fill an empty tank form a cool compressor tank that is not running,
there will be no condensation generated.


That's because you're *reducing* the pressure. It has nothing to do with the
temperature.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
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In article . net, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Buck Turgidson wrote:
Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I
use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full.
Does this do longterm harm to the machine?


Yes and no.

Typically, the smaller the compressor, the less efficient, and the
more condensate it generates.


How does the efficiency of the compressor make any difference?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
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On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:50:21 -0400, "Buck Turgidson"
wrote:

Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I
use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full.
Does this do longterm harm to the machine?



Maybe. When you drain it do you see water? Water (and oxygen) will
rust the inside of the tank.


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You guys are making this too hard. It's just pV=nRT (ideal gas
law).

1. Compressor takes in outside air, which typically has water vapor
in it, and packs it into the tank, thus raising the pressure.

2. As you let air out of the tank, the pressure drops. This cools the
air (as p goes down, do does T).

3. Cold air holds less moisture so liquid water condenses from the
water vapor and collects in the tank.

Kevin


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On 27 Apr, 00:50, "Buck Turgidson" wrote:

I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full.
Does this do longterm harm to the machine?


In general, no. However a machine that has a slow leak down somewhere
and is going to be switched off for long enough to empty itself is
usually best vented deliberately rather than being left to do it
inevitably itself (or just fix the leak!)

You should of course always blow down the water after any sufficient
use of the compressor. This doesn't mean emptying the reservoir
though. Nor does it require doing if the reservoir has been left full
long-term with the compressor off, except possibly if you've had major
temperature changes.

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On Apr 26, 6:50 pm, "Buck Turgidson" wrote:
Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I
use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full.
Does this do longterm harm to the machine?



I have a 6 gallon pancake compressor by Porter Cable. When I use it
it's only for an hour or two. Afterwards, when I bleed it I see water
coming out of the tank. So I bleed it after each use. It only takes a
few minutes to compress the unit so it's well worth the effort. So my
recommendation is, if you see water coming out when you bleed the
tank, then bleed the tank whenever you are done using it.

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Larry W wrote:
Drain any condensation out after each use but there is no reason why the tank
can't be left pressurized.



You'll have to go back and drain it again after the tank cools down. There will
be more condensation as the cooler air can't hold as much moisture in its
gaseous state.

And as others have pointed out, there's draining condensation and there's
draining the tank completely. If you'll go back to drain the condensation after
the tank is cooled, there's no reason why you couldn't leave it pressurized. If
you're not willing to do that, you may well end up with rust eating the bottom
of your tank out over time.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com




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Doug Miller wrote:
1. Compressor takes in outside air, which typically has water vapor
in it, and packs it into the tank, thus raising the pressure.


And thus condensing the water vapor into liquid. End of story.



Only supersaturated air will condense upon compression. Normally, it won't
happen.


2. As you let air out of the tank, the pressure drops. This cools the
air (as p goes down, do does T).



The pressure also drops as the tank cools, whether it's being used or not. So
does the dewpoint, so this is when normal air will start to condense.


3. Cold air holds less moisture so liquid water condenses from the
water vapor and collects in the tank.



That *is* correct.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com


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Swingman wrote:

| I moved the drain plug to the end of a 3' length of air hose on my
| small vertical, where it is much more accessible.
|
| The air hose holds quite a bit of water that would otherwise be in
| the tank, and, unlike the tank, is rustproof ... and gravity does
| the work.
|
| It is a simple matter to open the cock slightly every other day or
| so and let the water in the hose squirt out, and draining the tank
| this way doesn't even cause the compressor to cycle on.

Great idea - consider it stolen :-)

Thanks!

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/


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Buck Turgidson wrote:
Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I
use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full.
Does this do longterm harm to the machine?



I have a CH 4 gallon twin tank. I never leave it full and usually run
the tool until the tanks are almost empty, then open the drain and allow
the low pressure to blow whatever water is there out. The drain on this
model is not on the very bottom of the lower tank, so I have to tilt the
unit to drain. If I don't have enough air to finish, I turn the unit on
with the drain open.



--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
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Swingman wrote:

I moved the drain plug to the end of a 3' length of air hose on my small
vertical, where it is much more accessible.


That's exactly what I did.
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Andy Dingley wrote:

In general, no. However a machine that has a slow leak down somewhere
and is going to be switched off for long enough to empty itself is
usually best vented deliberately rather than being left to do it
inevitably itself (or just fix the leak!)


Why is that?


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"B A R R Y" wrote in message
Doug wrote:

I've been led to believe that the compressed air will create moisture/
condensation in the unit which obviously can do damage. I usually try
to remember to bleed mine.


Removing water is totally different than letting out the pressure.


Ditto ...

I moved the drain plug to the end of a 3' length of air hose on my small
vertical, where it is much more accessible.

The air hose holds quite a bit of water that would otherwise be in the tank,
and, unlike the tank, is rustproof ... and gravity does the work.

It is a simple matter to open the cock slightly every other day or so and
let the water in the hose squirt out, and draining the tank this way doesn't
even cause the compressor to cycle on.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)


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On Apr 27, 11:00 am, "Morris Dovey" wrote:


Great idea - consider it stolen :-)

Thanks!


Ditto.

Thanks


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On Apr 27, 11:08 am, B A R R Y wrote:
Swingman wrote:

I moved the drain plug to the end of a 3' length of air hose on my small
vertical, where it is much more accessible.


That's exactly what I did.


Sooo who did it first? Who am I 'really' stealing this from?

Stay tuned.
Film at 11.

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Robatoy wrote:
On Apr 27, 11:08 am, B A R R Y wrote:
Swingman wrote:

I moved the drain plug to the end of a 3' length of air hose on my small
vertical, where it is much more accessible.

That's exactly what I did.


Sooo who did it first? Who am I 'really' stealing this from?


Swingman mentioned it first, but I don't know when he did it. I'll give
him credit for doing it first, 'cause he's older. G

I did it a few years ago. All you do is unscrew the drain valve, insert
a hose or threaded pipe w/ elbows, and screw the valve into the open
end, preferably in a more convenient location.

Must be bass players thinking alike...

Auto drain valves work in a similar manner. Each time the compressor
starts, it momentarily "burps" the water drain. There's really no
reason to completely drain the air to let out the water.
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On Apr 26, 7:50 pm, "Buck Turgidson" wrote:
Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I
use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full.
Does this do longterm harm to the machine?


Water vapour condenses when the water/air mixture is
compressed...ASSUMING the temperature stays the same...which it won't
as air temperature increases when the pressure does during
compression...... so we wait till it cools to the original ambient
inle temperasture.... then it condenses.

When my Porter Cable pancake becomes difficult to lift, I drain it.
(Besides, any water in your tank will diminish the air storage as
water won't compress.)

Draining my vertical in the shop is a PITA, but I stole an idea from
Swingman to make that easier.
I'm buying a 90-degree fitting to replace the drain cock, and I am
going to run a length of brake line along the side of the tank to the
top where I will bend a swan neck and install the drain cock. It will
be at eye-height and the air pressure will push the water up the line
to an awaiting plastic bottle.



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On Apr 27, 12:01 pm, B A R R Y wrote:


Must be bass players thinking alike...


Oh noes...... two solos, duet style?


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Doug's never wrong. Just ask him, he'll tell you.
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...
Doug Miller wrote:
1. Compressor takes in outside air, which typically has water vapor
in it, and packs it into the tank, thus raising the pressure.


And thus condensing the water vapor into liquid. End of story.



Only supersaturated air will condense upon compression. Normally, it

won't
happen.


2. As you let air out of the tank, the pressure drops. This cools the
air (as p goes down, do does T).



The pressure also drops as the tank cools, whether it's being used or not.

So
does the dewpoint, so this is when normal air will start to condense.


3. Cold air holds less moisture so liquid water condenses from the
water vapor and collects in the tank.



That *is* correct.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com




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Tom Veatch firstname_lastname AT pixius dot net wrote:

Bottom line... it's probably better to dump the air when you're
done... at least for shop compressors.


Or:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42221



I bought one of these from HF, when I bought a new compressor
recently. I must have spent the better part of a day or so trying to
figure out a way to install this. The main problem I ran into is with
the air hose supplied and the compression fittings it uses.
Basically there weren't enough parts there to splice this device into
the system as they don't give you any additional compression fittings.
On my compressor, there's a solid copper line running between the
tank and the regulator. So I would need two more fittings to
rework things so that the automatic drain valve could be tee'd in
between the tank and the regulator.

I spent several hours trying to find more of those fittings locally,
but none of the hardware stores had them and HF itself does not
sell them. Perhaps a specialized industrial supply would have them,
but after spending a few hours trying to hunt stuff down, I gave
up and returned the device. The device itself probably works fine,
but you'd likely need to dig up some other type of way to splice
it into your system that uses some other type of fittings and hose.
It would be nice if they'd supply additional male and female
compression fittings with the device, even if that increased the
price of the device by a few bucks.

In the end, I found it's easy enough to just open the drain at the
bottom once a day and let it blow out the accumulated moisture.

--

If you want to reply via email, change the obvious words to numbers and
remove ".invalid".
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Robatoy wrote:
On Apr 27, 12:01 pm, B A R R Y wrote:

Must be bass players thinking alike...


Oh noes...... two solos, duet style?



We're going to get together and play "Big Bottom". G
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Default Leaving Air Compressor Full


"Robatoy" wrote in message
oups.com...

Water vapour condenses when the water/air mixture is
compressed...ASSUMING the temperature stays the same...which it won't
as air temperature increases when the pressure does during
compression...... so we wait till it cools to the original ambient
inle temperasture.... then it condenses.


Water vapor condenses regardless of pressure. Ever take a glass of ice
water out side on a hot humid day? You get condensation on the cool sides
of the glass. The condensation is formed when the humid air that has been
heated up during compression, enteres the cooler compressor tank.

You can transfer humid compressed air to another container and there will
be no condensation inside the tank as long as the temperature remains the
same. Have you ever wondered why portable air tanks seldom if ever have no
bleeder valve for releasing water?



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