Leaving Air Compressor Full
Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I
use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine? |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
On Apr 26, 6:50 pm, "Buck Turgidson" wrote:
Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine? no |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
On Apr 26, 7:57 pm, lwhaley wrote:
On Apr 26, 6:50 pm, "Buck Turgidson" wrote: Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine? no I've been led to believe that the compressed air will create moisture/ condensation in the unit which obviously can do damage. I usually try to remember to bleed mine. |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
In article .com,
Doug wrote: On Apr 26, 7:57 pm, lwhaley wrote: On Apr 26, 6:50 pm, "Buck Turgidson" wrote: Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine? no I've been led to believe that the compressed air will create moisture/ condensation in the unit which obviously can do damage. I usually try to remember to bleed mine. Porter Cable's instructions say to bleed it every day. I thought that was a bit excessive, and left mine full for quite a while. The other day, I emptied it, thinking some water might have built up. Indeed, holding it up so the exhaust was at the bottom, a considerable amount of water came out! Had to hold it over the sink. Perhaps I'll empty it like that every few of weeks now. -- Jedd Haas - Artist - New Orleans, LA http://www.gallerytungsten.com http://www.epsno.com |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
Condensation building up in the tank, causing internal rust, eventually
leading to tank rupture, is a long term possibility. Compressors have a drain valve on the tank for this reason. -- Lloyd Baker "Buck Turgidson" wrote in message ... Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine? |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
Buck Turgidson wrote:
Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine? Yes and no. Typically, the smaller the compressor, the less efficient, and the more condensate it generates. Not emptying the tank and bleeding off the condensate on a frequent basis leads to problems. Lew |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
"Doug" wrote in message oups.com... On Apr 26, 7:57 pm, lwhaley wrote: On Apr 26, 6:50 pm, "Buck Turgidson" wrote: Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine? no I've been led to believe that the compressed air will create moisture/ condensation in the unit which obviously can do damage. I usually try to remember to bleed mine. You are on the right track. Actually the compressed air does not create the condensation. It is the heat generated from compressing the humid air that causes the condensation. Take a glass of ice water out into a hot humid place and you will get condensation on the outside of the glass. Once a compressor has stopped running and cools the condensation stops. The longer the compressor runs and the more heat generated the greater the condensation. Soooo, if you let the compressor cool and bleed off just the excess condensation there should be no more water build up when the compressor sets idle. Typically however, no one remembers to return to the compressor to bleed the condensation after the compressor has cooled. Bleeding is a good practice and total bleeding insures that you don't have to stand around waiting for all the water to blow out. Typically also, the faster and fewer times a compressor cycles the less build up of condensation you will get regardless of the volume being compressed. If you fill an empty tank form a cool compressor tank that is not running, there will be no condensation generated. |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
"scouter3" wrote in message ... Condensation building up in the tank, causing internal rust, eventually leading to tank rupture, is a long term possibility. Compressors have a drain valve on the tank for this reason. -- Lloyd Baker "Buck Turgidson" wrote in message ... Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine? |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
"scouter3" wrote in message ... Condensation building up in the tank, causing internal rust, eventually leading to tank rupture, is a long term possibility. Compressors have a drain valve on the tank for this reason. -- Lloyd Baker "Buck Turgidson" wrote in message ... Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine? I just disposed of one (an old one) that rusted through. It manifest itself through a pin hole leak in the bottom of the tank. I think if it had been bled properly through out it's life, it would still be here. If the condensate is rusty color, you know it is rusting. I never leave air in my pancake compressor now. The pancake is easy to drain. The old tank required getting down in my knees and looking under the tank. I should have piped the drain to a valve located in the open where I could see it. I would have drained the tank more often. |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
Doug wrote:
I've been led to believe that the compressed air will create moisture/ condensation in the unit which obviously can do damage. I usually try to remember to bleed mine. Compressed air doesn't create moisture; it only compresses what already exists in the atmosphere that day. The process of compression creates heat, which will allow more moisture to stay in the vaporous state. Later, as the tank cools down, that vapor may well condense since cool air can't hold as much moisture as warm air. As a former scuba instructor, I'd always taught my students to never let a tank run completely empty as positive air pressure kept moist ambient air from entering the tank. However scuba air is MUCH drier than shop air. Given that shop compressors don't usually filter out moisture as scuba compressors do, it's a bad practice to just let that moist air sit in the storage vessel, rusting it out over time. Bottom line... it's probably better to dump the air when you're done... at least for shop compressors. -- Mortimer Schnerd, RN mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
I have a 2 HP, 20 gallon Craftsman compressor. I drain it about every five
years and never release the pressure at the end of the day. I have been using it since 1973. It was getting really hot when shingling so I changed the oil last fall. Don't know if that helped--maybe I just slowed down a bit. :-) -Doug ================= "Buck Turgidson" wrote in message ... Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine? |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
"DouginUtah" wrote in message ... I have a 2 HP, 20 gallon Craftsman compressor. I drain it about every five years and never release the pressure at the end of the day. I have been using it since 1973. It was getting really hot when shingling so I changed the oil last fall. Don't know if that helped--maybe I just slowed down a bit. :-) If you lived anywhere near the coast your compressor would have filled with water in a couple of years. |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:29:26 -0400, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote: Bottom line... it's probably better to dump the air when you're done... at least for shop compressors. Or: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42221 or something similar |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
Tom Veatch wrote:
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:29:26 -0400, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote: Bottom line... it's probably better to dump the air when you're done... at least for shop compressors. Or: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42221 or something similar Maximum pressure 100psi? Make it something similar... -- Mortimer Schnerd, RN mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
In article ,
Buck Turgidson wrote: Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine? Drain any condensation out after each use but there is no reason why the tank can't be left pressurized. -- Make it as simple as possible, but no simpler. Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
Buck Turgidson wrote:
Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine? I leave my own compressor full, and know of some that have been full for 15 years. G |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
Doug wrote:
I've been led to believe that the compressed air will create moisture/ condensation in the unit which obviously can do damage. I usually try to remember to bleed mine. Removing water is totally different than letting out the pressure. |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
In article , "Leon" wrote:
You are on the right track. Actually the compressed air does not create the condensation. It is the heat generated from compressing the humid air that causes the condensation. Incorrect. It is *exactly* the compression that causes the condensation: water that is vapor at ambient pressure can be condensed into liquid by increasing the pressure. Increasing temperature *cannot* cause condensation; quite the opposite, in fact. Take a glass of ice water out into a hot humid place and you will get condensation on the outside of the glass. Yes, that's because the warm water vapor in the air is being *cooled* by the cold glass, and condenses onto it. Condensation is the result of a decrease in temperature (that's why dew appears overnight, not in the middle of the day) or by an increase in pressure. Once a compressor has stopped running and cools the condensation stops. Again incorrect. As long as the pressure remains high, the vapor will remain condensed. The longer the compressor runs and the more heat generated the greater the condensation. Once again incorrect. It's the pressure, not the heat, that condenses the vapor. Soooo, if you let the compressor cool and bleed off just the excess condensation there should be no more water build up when the compressor sets idle. Still off the mark. Typically however, no one remembers to return to the compressor to bleed the condensation after the compressor has cooled. Bleeding is a good practice and total bleeding insures that you don't have to stand around waiting for all the water to blow out. Typically also, the faster and fewer times a compressor cycles the less build up of condensation you will get regardless of the volume being compressed. Nonsense. The amount of condensation depends on the amount and humidity of the air being drawn into the compressor, and the pressure to which it is compressed. Nothing more. It has absolutely no relation to the compressor duty cycle. If you fill an empty tank form a cool compressor tank that is not running, there will be no condensation generated. That's because you're *reducing* the pressure. It has nothing to do with the temperature. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
In article . net, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Buck Turgidson wrote: Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine? Yes and no. Typically, the smaller the compressor, the less efficient, and the more condensate it generates. How does the efficiency of the compressor make any difference? -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:50:21 -0400, "Buck Turgidson"
wrote: Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine? Maybe. When you drain it do you see water? Water (and oxygen) will rust the inside of the tank. |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
You guys are making this too hard. It's just pV=nRT (ideal gas
law). 1. Compressor takes in outside air, which typically has water vapor in it, and packs it into the tank, thus raising the pressure. 2. As you let air out of the tank, the pressure drops. This cools the air (as p goes down, do does T). 3. Cold air holds less moisture so liquid water condenses from the water vapor and collects in the tank. Kevin |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
On 27 Apr, 00:50, "Buck Turgidson" wrote:
I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine? In general, no. However a machine that has a slow leak down somewhere and is going to be switched off for long enough to empty itself is usually best vented deliberately rather than being left to do it inevitably itself (or just fix the leak!) You should of course always blow down the water after any sufficient use of the compressor. This doesn't mean emptying the reservoir though. Nor does it require doing if the reservoir has been left full long-term with the compressor off, except possibly if you've had major temperature changes. |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
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Leaving Air Compressor Full
On Apr 26, 6:50 pm, "Buck Turgidson" wrote:
Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine? I have a 6 gallon pancake compressor by Porter Cable. When I use it it's only for an hour or two. Afterwards, when I bleed it I see water coming out of the tank. So I bleed it after each use. It only takes a few minutes to compress the unit so it's well worth the effort. So my recommendation is, if you see water coming out when you bleed the tank, then bleed the tank whenever you are done using it. |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
Larry W wrote:
Drain any condensation out after each use but there is no reason why the tank can't be left pressurized. You'll have to go back and drain it again after the tank cools down. There will be more condensation as the cooler air can't hold as much moisture in its gaseous state. And as others have pointed out, there's draining condensation and there's draining the tank completely. If you'll go back to drain the condensation after the tank is cooled, there's no reason why you couldn't leave it pressurized. If you're not willing to do that, you may well end up with rust eating the bottom of your tank out over time. -- Mortimer Schnerd, RN mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
Doug Miller wrote:
1. Compressor takes in outside air, which typically has water vapor in it, and packs it into the tank, thus raising the pressure. And thus condensing the water vapor into liquid. End of story. Only supersaturated air will condense upon compression. Normally, it won't happen. 2. As you let air out of the tank, the pressure drops. This cools the air (as p goes down, do does T). The pressure also drops as the tank cools, whether it's being used or not. So does the dewpoint, so this is when normal air will start to condense. 3. Cold air holds less moisture so liquid water condenses from the water vapor and collects in the tank. That *is* correct. -- Mortimer Schnerd, RN mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
Swingman wrote:
| I moved the drain plug to the end of a 3' length of air hose on my | small vertical, where it is much more accessible. | | The air hose holds quite a bit of water that would otherwise be in | the tank, and, unlike the tank, is rustproof ... and gravity does | the work. | | It is a simple matter to open the cock slightly every other day or | so and let the water in the hose squirt out, and draining the tank | this way doesn't even cause the compressor to cycle on. Great idea - consider it stolen :-) Thanks! -- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/ |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
Buck Turgidson wrote:
Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine? I have a CH 4 gallon twin tank. I never leave it full and usually run the tool until the tanks are almost empty, then open the drain and allow the low pressure to blow whatever water is there out. The drain on this model is not on the very bottom of the lower tank, so I have to tilt the unit to drain. If I don't have enough air to finish, I turn the unit on with the drain open. -- Bill In Hamptonburgh, NY |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
Swingman wrote:
I moved the drain plug to the end of a 3' length of air hose on my small vertical, where it is much more accessible. That's exactly what I did. |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
Andy Dingley wrote:
In general, no. However a machine that has a slow leak down somewhere and is going to be switched off for long enough to empty itself is usually best vented deliberately rather than being left to do it inevitably itself (or just fix the leak!) Why is that? |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
"B A R R Y" wrote in message
Doug wrote: I've been led to believe that the compressed air will create moisture/ condensation in the unit which obviously can do damage. I usually try to remember to bleed mine. Removing water is totally different than letting out the pressure. Ditto ... I moved the drain plug to the end of a 3' length of air hose on my small vertical, where it is much more accessible. The air hose holds quite a bit of water that would otherwise be in the tank, and, unlike the tank, is rustproof ... and gravity does the work. It is a simple matter to open the cock slightly every other day or so and let the water in the hose squirt out, and draining the tank this way doesn't even cause the compressor to cycle on. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 2/20/07 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
On Apr 27, 11:00 am, "Morris Dovey" wrote:
Great idea - consider it stolen :-) Thanks! Ditto. Thanks |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
On Apr 27, 11:08 am, B A R R Y wrote:
Swingman wrote: I moved the drain plug to the end of a 3' length of air hose on my small vertical, where it is much more accessible. That's exactly what I did. Sooo who did it first? Who am I 'really' stealing this from? Stay tuned. Film at 11. |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
Robatoy wrote:
On Apr 27, 11:08 am, B A R R Y wrote: Swingman wrote: I moved the drain plug to the end of a 3' length of air hose on my small vertical, where it is much more accessible. That's exactly what I did. Sooo who did it first? Who am I 'really' stealing this from? Swingman mentioned it first, but I don't know when he did it. I'll give him credit for doing it first, 'cause he's older. G I did it a few years ago. All you do is unscrew the drain valve, insert a hose or threaded pipe w/ elbows, and screw the valve into the open end, preferably in a more convenient location. Must be bass players thinking alike... Auto drain valves work in a similar manner. Each time the compressor starts, it momentarily "burps" the water drain. There's really no reason to completely drain the air to let out the water. |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
On Apr 26, 7:50 pm, "Buck Turgidson" wrote:
Partially out of laziness, inertia, procrastination, and partially because I use it several times a month, I leave my Porter Cable air compressor full. Does this do longterm harm to the machine? Water vapour condenses when the water/air mixture is compressed...ASSUMING the temperature stays the same...which it won't as air temperature increases when the pressure does during compression...... so we wait till it cools to the original ambient inle temperasture.... then it condenses. When my Porter Cable pancake becomes difficult to lift, I drain it. (Besides, any water in your tank will diminish the air storage as water won't compress.) Draining my vertical in the shop is a PITA, but I stole an idea from Swingman to make that easier. I'm buying a 90-degree fitting to replace the drain cock, and I am going to run a length of brake line along the side of the tank to the top where I will bend a swan neck and install the drain cock. It will be at eye-height and the air pressure will push the water up the line to an awaiting plastic bottle. |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
On Apr 27, 12:01 pm, B A R R Y wrote:
Must be bass players thinking alike... Oh noes...... two solos, duet style? |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
Doug's never wrong. Just ask him, he'll tell you.
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message ... Doug Miller wrote: 1. Compressor takes in outside air, which typically has water vapor in it, and packs it into the tank, thus raising the pressure. And thus condensing the water vapor into liquid. End of story. Only supersaturated air will condense upon compression. Normally, it won't happen. 2. As you let air out of the tank, the pressure drops. This cools the air (as p goes down, do does T). The pressure also drops as the tank cools, whether it's being used or not. So does the dewpoint, so this is when normal air will start to condense. 3. Cold air holds less moisture so liquid water condenses from the water vapor and collects in the tank. That *is* correct. -- Mortimer Schnerd, RN mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
Tom Veatch firstname_lastname AT pixius dot net wrote:
Bottom line... it's probably better to dump the air when you're done... at least for shop compressors. Or: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42221 I bought one of these from HF, when I bought a new compressor recently. I must have spent the better part of a day or so trying to figure out a way to install this. The main problem I ran into is with the air hose supplied and the compression fittings it uses. Basically there weren't enough parts there to splice this device into the system as they don't give you any additional compression fittings. On my compressor, there's a solid copper line running between the tank and the regulator. So I would need two more fittings to rework things so that the automatic drain valve could be tee'd in between the tank and the regulator. I spent several hours trying to find more of those fittings locally, but none of the hardware stores had them and HF itself does not sell them. Perhaps a specialized industrial supply would have them, but after spending a few hours trying to hunt stuff down, I gave up and returned the device. The device itself probably works fine, but you'd likely need to dig up some other type of way to splice it into your system that uses some other type of fittings and hose. It would be nice if they'd supply additional male and female compression fittings with the device, even if that increased the price of the device by a few bucks. In the end, I found it's easy enough to just open the drain at the bottom once a day and let it blow out the accumulated moisture. -- If you want to reply via email, change the obvious words to numbers and remove ".invalid". |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
Robatoy wrote:
On Apr 27, 12:01 pm, B A R R Y wrote: Must be bass players thinking alike... Oh noes...... two solos, duet style? We're going to get together and play "Big Bottom". G |
Leaving Air Compressor Full
"Robatoy" wrote in message oups.com... Water vapour condenses when the water/air mixture is compressed...ASSUMING the temperature stays the same...which it won't as air temperature increases when the pressure does during compression...... so we wait till it cools to the original ambient inle temperasture.... then it condenses. Water vapor condenses regardless of pressure. Ever take a glass of ice water out side on a hot humid day? You get condensation on the cool sides of the glass. The condensation is formed when the humid air that has been heated up during compression, enteres the cooler compressor tank. You can transfer humid compressed air to another container and there will be no condensation inside the tank as long as the temperature remains the same. Have you ever wondered why portable air tanks seldom if ever have no bleeder valve for releasing water? |
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