[Leon]

Thank you Swingman for tossing the bait and setting the hook.

With that out of the way, I added another nail gun to my collection. I have
used Swingman's Omer pinner and was pleasantly surprised as to how quiet and
non eventful a pinner works. So I bought one that was a little cheaper. I
went with the Grex P635. Several WW magazines had reviewed the unit and
gave it high marks. Before purchasing I e-mailed Grex on 2 occasions for
information and for locations of local retail stores. I got an e-mail
answer both times within 24 hours. I ended up purchasing the pinner from
Thefastenercompany.com . They offered the pinner plus 1,000 pins in every
one of the 9 sizes that the pinner will shoot + shipping for just under
$220. Fortunately the The Fastener Company also offers Grex pins in broken
pack quantities of 1,000 for under $2 in case 10,000 pins are a bit too
many. With the sample packs supplied I will be able to determine which
sizes best suite my needs in a more economic fission.

The pinner is brightly colored so you will not loose it in the shop. Larger
then the Omer brand pinner but smaller than the typical brad nailer, the fit
and finish is perfect with no plastic that I noticed except on the trigger
and rear of the magazine This unit comes with 2 protective tips that
prevent the small dents that some guns leave behind and the plastic tips
have alignment marks on all 4 sides to help put the pin exactly where you
want it. The exhaust is at the rear at the hose nipple and has a muffler
for quiet operation. Common tool storage is located at the rear end of the
magazine along with storage for an extra plastic tip.

The pinner easily shoots a 1-3/8" pin through oak. The Grex pins appear to
have a glue coating that seems to give a bit more grip to the pins.
Shooting 3, 1/2" pins to connect 2 pieces of 1/4" x 3/4" x 5" into a "T"
configuration with the 3/4" sides flat against each other resulted in a very
tight and snug connection. With more than reasonable effort I was unable to
change the orientation of the 2 pieces by squeezing the pieces in my hand.
Add a little glue to the mix and I suspect the wood would break before the
joint.

The gun comes in a very nice small case and the Grex pins come in small
plastic boxes that strongly remind me of miniature Festool Systainer boxes.
;~)

[Lee Michaels]

"Leon" wrote

Thank you Swingman for tossing the bait and setting the hook.

Careful there Leon.

Soon Swingman will have you playing the bass.

Thanks for the Pinner review.

[[email protected]]

On Apr 17, 9:01 am, "Lee Michaels"
wrote:

Careful there Leon.

Soon Swingman will have you playing the bass.

LMAO.... no kiddin' !!!


Sounds like you got winner. I have wanted a pinner, but put it off as
I don't always need one. I am sure if I get one I will use it a lot
more than I am thinking I would now, but other priorities call.

Good review!

Robert

[Robatoy]

On Apr 17, 12:14 pm, "Swingman" wrote:

Still, it's nice to have more options for a few
dollars less with the Grex, which is probably what I would get were I to do
it again.


I'll second that.

[Swingman]

wrote in message

Sounds like you got winner. I have wanted a pinner, but put it off as
I don't always need one. I am sure if I get one I will use it a lot
more than I am thinking I would now, but other priorities call.

I was surprised how many uses I've found for mine, including as bait.

The Omer PR18 I have only shoots to 11/16" pins, and is kind of pricey being
handmade/fitted, but I've been real happy with it and have not found a need
for longer 23ga pins. Still, it's nice to have more options for a few
dollars less with the Grex, which is probably what I would get were I to do
it again.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07

[Lee Michaels]

"Swingman" wrote in message

Apparently the Grex Tool Company has found a way to make top notch
products
in Taiwan without succumbing to the temptation to cheapen them so
management
can afford more swimming pool chemicals.

Either there is not an MBA in the house, or one who has more than his/her
share of uncommon sense, along with a remarkable lack of greed?


Careful there Swingman. The stockholders may find out and end a good thing.

You are right though. It does take an extraordinary amount of wisdom and
smarts to make high quality products for a reasonable price.

[Swingman]

"Robatoy" wrote in message
On Apr 17, 12:14 pm, "Swingman" wrote:

Still, it's nice to have more options for a few
dollars less with the Grex, which is probably what I would get were I to
do
it again.


I'll second that.

Apparently the Grex Tool Company has found a way to make top notch products
in Taiwan without succumbing to the temptation to cheapen them so management
can afford more swimming pool chemicals.

Either there is not an MBA in the house, or one who has more than his/her
share of uncommon sense, along with a remarkable lack of greed?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07

[Leon]

wrote in message
ups.com...



Sounds like you got winner. I have wanted a pinner, but put it off as
I don't always need one. I am sure if I get one I will use it a lot
more than I am thinking I would now, but other priorities call.

Good review!

Robert


I have needed one 5 times since mid December. I used Swingman's in December
and then I could have used it on 3 other jobs and then there is the 1/4"
quarter round molding that I need to attach to my wife's kitchen cabinets in
about 4 places.
I bought it to aid in making small boxes that use 1/4" box joints. I hate
clamping small Box Joints and the pinner should do the trick of replacing
the clamps TTGD.

[Robatoy]

On Apr 17, 12:24 pm, "Swingman" wrote:


Apparently the Grex Tool Company has found a way to make top notch products
in Taiwan [snipfered]

I recall clearly that Made In Japan meant crap. I guess we all know
what happened there.
I recall clearly that Made In Taiwan meant crap. I guess we all know
what is in the process of happening now.

I took a look at a client's Hundai a while back. Nothing like the pure
unadulterated **** it once was. Looked solid, felt solid, sounded
solid..it felt somewhat european...No idea on durability. Obviously
the Koreans have a mandate.
I sell a lot of Staron solid surface, fabulous quality (Samsung)

Just wait till China gets the kinks worked out... you might as well
bulldoze all of Detroit and start over (not a bad idea now in some
parts)

And as long as the dollar remains meaningful on the world
markets......naaaa... different topic.

[Robatoy]

On Apr 18, 9:21 am, "Swingman" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message
On Apr 17, 12:24 pm, "Swingman" wrote:

Apparently the Grex Tool Company has found a way to make top notch
products
in Taiwan [snipfered]

I recall clearly that Made In Japan meant crap. I guess we all know
what happened there.
I recall clearly that Made In Taiwan meant crap. I guess we all know
what is in the process of happening now.

With the rest (the pertinent part) of the sentence not snipped, you can see
that you are not talking about the same thing:

"... without succumbing to the temptation to cheapen them so management can
afford more swimming pool chemicals"

I'm talking about _deliberately_ cutting back on quality, a la Delta and PC,
with "price point" engineering on already established products that were
once some the best in the world, but are now crap.

That's going backwards, not forward.

You're right. I was talking about the "Apparently the Grex Tool
Company has found a way to make top notch products in Taiwan "
I was commenting on the fact that they're perfectly capable of making
good stuff in Taiwan. You were commenting on the fact that they indeed
can, but that the likes of Delta and ilk don't for greedy reasons.
Elu meant something...till it became DeWalt. B&D? Fuhgeddabouddit.
Delta? Meh.

There's a famous story around these parts about a pizza joint. They
weren't selling much because people around here thought they were
cheap with their pepperoni and cheese. In order to try to stay in
business, the pizza joint started cutting back on their .....you
guessed it....pepperoni and cheese.
Porter Cable production routers? For that kinda money? What opened my
eyes, was this coincidence of two PC routers STB (**** the bed) within
a couple of weeks from each other. Similar issues with bearings. One
of the two was 15 years older.

Some companies get ahead by constantly improving their products. Other
by playing the 'dummies will buy anything' card.
When I look at a Skil or B&D piece, I feel insulted.

[B A R R Y]

Robatoy wrote:


Just wait till China gets the kinks worked out... you might as well
bulldoze all of Detroit and start over (not a bad idea now in some
parts)

You should see some of the higher-end bicycle parts now coming out of
China.

[Swingman]

"Robatoy" wrote in message
On Apr 17, 12:24 pm, "Swingman" wrote:


Apparently the Grex Tool Company has found a way to make top notch
products
in Taiwan [snipfered]

I recall clearly that Made In Japan meant crap. I guess we all know
what happened there.
I recall clearly that Made In Taiwan meant crap. I guess we all know
what is in the process of happening now.

With the rest (the pertinent part) of the sentence not snipped, you can see
that you are not talking about the same thing:

"... without succumbing to the temptation to cheapen them so management can
afford more swimming pool chemicals"

I'm talking about _deliberately_ cutting back on quality, a la Delta and PC,
with "price point" engineering on already established products that were
once some the best in the world, but are now crap.

That's going backwards, not forward.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07

[[email protected]]

On Apr 18, 7:48 am, Robatoy wrote:

Big SNIP

Some companies get ahead by constantly improving their products. Other
by playing the 'dummies will buy anything' card.
When I look at a Skil or B&D piece, I feel insulted.-


I wouldn't get insulted about B&D and Skil. They served their purpose
- they are and have been homeowner-once-a-month-project-plastic tools
for almost as long as I can remember. They guy that live across the
street from me uses his cordless every few months for about 20 - 30
minutes. And he doesn't want to spend $200 - $300 on a drill.

I try not to say it too loud since most can't deal with it, but to me
the quality of most tools sold had gone from well made with good fit
and finish to just barely usable about 20 years ago. It has only
gotten worse.

I have a Milwaukee circular saw that has been rebuilt 4 times; new
bearings and brushes every time, and two new triggers. As a saw used
by me every day I was at work for years as a commerical carpenter,
then as a house framer, I am amazed it still works. I have had that
saw since I burned out my Rockwells, so it was purchases around '77.
My Milwaukee "hole shooter" was purchased in '76, before screwguns,
and was used by me for sheetmetal framing and equipment installation.

They cost a lot more than everything out there, but they were good
tools, reliable tools, so the money was not wasted.

I don't care about all the garbage the sell now. BUT what I do care
about is that I have less and less choices, and worse, I know that the
tools I buy are not the quality I want, and possbily at this time in
the wonderful world of woodworking, the may not be available. I don't
have choice.

The quality of "professional" tools sold now have been cheapened to
the point that they are actually the "homeowners" quality of years
ago. I hate that. Even when I buy a tool for a fair amount of money,
there is no joy, no satisfaction of knowing that I will have those
tools happily working on site for years.

But when I bought the Milwaukee equipment, I knew that I was "set", at
least for a while.

And what completely ****es me off is that some kinds of tools just
aren't available in quality anymore. NO MATTER what you pay for
them. We used to have a couple of suppliers here in town that carried
specific brands of tools for specific trades. You could go in a
marvel at the old turret topped Rockwell saws (still have my old 346)
and routers, the Millers Falls upper end drills and power saws, and
really nice tools by Blue Grass and Stanley. No more.

All the tools are the same, from Home Depot to Woodcraft. Yes, the
plane enthusiasts can go buy Lie Nieson instead of Stanley, but for
every day hard working tools I don't even know who makes them
anymore. For me an mine, I will call up another contractor and say
"hey - looking for a XXXX, got any ideas on that?". Many years ago I
would just get in the truck and go down and buy the brand I liked. No
shopping. But after breaking so many DeWalt, Porter Cable, and misc.
other tools, I find myself looking for a specific model, not brand
specific.

I like my 2 1/2 hp PC router, but hated the circular saw so much I
took it back. I like my DeWalt cordless drill, but hated the cordless
saw; my buddy's Sears cordless saw outperformed it in every way and
was less than half (literally) of the cost. My DeWalt laminate router
is pretty well made and nice to work with, but when installing tubular
skylights as part of the roofing end of my business we broke 4 of
their recip saws in 3 months.

In a very sneaky way, the bottom line driven companies have cheapened
every last aspect of engineering, assembly, quality control, and
materials. So we are left with nasty, throw away tools that aren't
reliable and don't last. A jewel is found from a manufacturer every
once in a while, and if I can use it, I will pay what is needed to get
that tool.

So I am glad when a guy like Leon takes a minute to post something
like his Grex review, and others here comment on it. I tuck those
things away - it is like finding a gold nugget in the ocean to have a
tool at any price live up to expectations.

Off the box now.

Robert

[Robatoy]

On Apr 18, 1:53 pm, "
wrote:


I wouldn't get insulted about B&D and Skil. They served their purpose
- they are and have been homeowner-once-a-month-project-plastic tools
for almost as long as I can remember. They guy that live across the
street from me uses his cordless every few months for about 20 - 30
minutes. And he doesn't want to spend $200 - $300 on a drill.

Yabbut...yabbut... they're doing that with a reputation that still
lingers from the days when it meant something.
They're not living up to that reputation.
Like my ex-BIL said: " That's right, this is not my father Oldsmobile
*pointing at his* "This is a piece of crap"



The quality of "professional" tools sold now have been cheapened to
the point that they are actually the "homeowners" quality of years
ago. I hate that. Even when I buy a tool for a fair amount of money,
there is no joy, no satisfaction of knowing that I will have those
tools happily working on site for years.

But when I bought the Milwaukee equipment, I knew that I was "set", at
least for a while.

IMHO, they're still a cut above the rest. Maybe I'm just lucky with
the Milwaukee stuff I own.
After 6 years of use/abuse, the batteries on my 14.4 Milwaukee drill
finally **** the bed. Before I ordered new ones, I decided to pull the
drill apart to see if it was worth it. All looks pretty good to me in
there.

And what completely ****es me off is that some kinds of tools just
aren't available in quality anymore. NO MATTER what you pay for
them. We used to have a couple of suppliers here in town that carried
specific brands of tools for specific trades. You could go in a
marvel at the old turret topped Rockwell saws (still have my old 346)
and routers, the Millers Falls upper end drills and power saws, and
really nice tools by Blue Grass and Stanley. No more.

Fein and Festool, some AEG and Metabo and most of the Milwaukee gear
is still pretty good. I have heard nothing but horror stories about
DeWalts..with the odd exception.
These folks make a nice router:
http://www.granquartz.com/products.aspx?category=3
I kid.


I find myself looking for a specific model, not brand
specific.

I hear that. That's how I ended up with Fein and Festool gear. Got
sick of buying crap.

I like my 2 1/2 hp PC router, but hated the circular saw so much I
took it back.

What? You don't like flex-shoes?..LOL..
Looked like a good saw... Mine has been retired to cutting up 12-foot
shipping pallets.


So I am glad when a guy like Leon takes a minute to post something
like his Grex review, and others here comment on it. I tuck those
things away - it is like finding a gold nugget in the ocean to have a
tool at any price live up to expectations.

Yup, there's gold in these here posts. I'm quite enjoying Charlieb's
Domino reports.

Off the box now.

r-----steals Robert's box.

[Upscale]

wrote in message

I don't care about all the garbage the sell now. BUT what I do care
about is that I have less and less choices, and worse, I know that the
tools I buy are not the quality I want, and possibly at this time in
the wonderful world of woodworking, the may not be available. I don't
have choice.

I guess our only choice is to get enough people to band together and ask
Veritas tools to start manufacturing power tools. Considering the business
that Lee Valley Tools is in and the reputation that LV has, I've always
wondered why they haven't made any forays into the power tools market.

Robin?

[[email protected]]

On Apr 18, 5:53 pm, Robatoy wrote:

big snip

r-----steals Robert's box.

Hey - gimme back my Maypo!

Robert

[Chris Friesen]

Upscale wrote:

I guess our only choice is to get enough people to band together and ask
Veritas tools to start manufacturing power tools. Considering the business
that Lee Valley Tools is in and the reputation that LV has, I've always
wondered why they haven't made any forays into the power tools market.

Likely too expensive. Also lots more parts than hand tools so they'd
probably have to farm it out.

It'd be sweet though. How about a circular saw with built-in dust
collection and an optional factory kit to turn it into a vertical panel saw?

Chris

[Leon]

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Apr 18, 7:48 am, Robatoy wrote:

So I am glad when a guy like Leon takes a minute to post something
like his Grex review, and others here comment on it. I tuck those
things away - it is like finding a gold nugget in the ocean to have a
tool at any price live up to expectations.

Off the box now.

Robert


While my previous nail gun purchase was not really mentioned in this forum,
may I say again, thanks for the help and insight that you provided to me
concerning the framing nail gun purchase. It met my expectations and was
much cheaper than what I expected to pay. It made the last out door job
cheaper and more enjoyable.

[Leon]

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
. ..

"Leon" wrote

Thank you Swingman for tossing the bait and setting the hook.

Careful there Leon.

Soon Swingman will have you playing the bass.

Thanks for the Pinner review.




Naw, Swingman plays bass. ;~)

And you are most welcome.