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Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 3rd 06, 01:00 AM posted to rec.woodworking
TC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?

I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly
with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see
links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush -
same result (yes, I sanded first).

Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected.

I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's
happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How
can I salvage what I have done?


http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg
http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg
--

Ads
  #2  
Old December 3rd 06, 01:09 AM posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,369
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?

TC wrote:
I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly
with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see
links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush -
same result (yes, I sanded first).

Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected.

I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's
happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How
can I salvage what I have done?


http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg
http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg



Was, by chance, the original finish an oil finish (non-film)?

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

  #3  
Old December 3rd 06, 01:17 AM posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 352
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?


"TC" wrote in message
...
I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly
with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see
links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush -
same result (yes, I sanded first).

Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected.

I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's
happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How
can I salvage what I have done?


You don't have your wood sanded down smooth enough. The secret to any
finish - any finish, is in the preparation. I can see the grain in your
poly and that's not good. Sand your piece down until the ridges disappear.
Use the ridges as your guide coat, which is to say that you keep sanding
until you have no shiney spots left. The shiney spots will be your low
points and additional coats of poly will not adhere to them unless they get
scruffed. Take the piece down until it is all perfectly flat and perfectly
even in its lack of luster. Then, apply another coat of poly.

If you want to be extra safe, after you sand it down, apply a coat or two or
three of shellac and then apply your poly.

--

-Mike-



  #4  
Old December 3rd 06, 01:19 AM posted to rec.woodworking
TC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?

Nova wrote:

TC wrote:
I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based
poly with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking
"things" (see links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to
a foam brush - same result (yes, I sanded first).

Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected.

I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's
happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How
can I salvage what I have done?


http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg
http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg



Was, by chance, the original finish an oil finish (non-film)?


Honestly, I don't know. But I sanded to bare wood. Would it make a
difference (if I sanded to bare wood and the old finish was oil)?

--

  #5  
Old December 3rd 06, 01:29 AM posted to rec.woodworking
cm
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?

We use water based finishes almost exclusively in our shop. So this is based
on my experience and what I see in your pictures.

I think you are getting an oil/water reaction to oil left in the wood. You
are going to have to completely remove the new finish. Then finish sand and
apply a coat of shellac. You can then proceed with your water based finish.
The shellac should be a good buffer between the two. Try a test piece first
to see if shellac and your water based are compatible.

cm


"TC" wrote in message
...
I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly
with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see
links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush -
same result (yes, I sanded first).

Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected.

I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's
happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How
can I salvage what I have done?


http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg
http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg
--



  #6  
Old December 3rd 06, 01:55 AM posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 352
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?


"cm" wrote in message
...
We use water based finishes almost exclusively in our shop. So this is

based
on my experience and what I see in your pictures.

I think you are getting an oil/water reaction to oil left in the wood. You
are going to have to completely remove the new finish. Then finish sand

and
apply a coat of shellac. You can then proceed with your water based

finish.
The shellac should be a good buffer between the two. Try a test piece

first
to see if shellac and your water based are compatible.


If his oil based finish (original), as we are guessing it to possibly be, is
older than a few weeks to a couple of months old, then there should be no
reaction between oil and water base. Actually, it should be reaction free
in less time than that, but I'm taking the tail between the legs, utlra
conservative approach to this. Once the finish is cured, there is no oil
left to react with a water based finish.

--

-Mike-



  #7  
Old December 3rd 06, 02:04 AM posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 136
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?

I think it was "TC" who stated:

I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly
with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see
links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush -
same result (yes, I sanded first).

Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected.

I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's
happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How
can I salvage what I have done?


Could it have ever had anything silicone on it? I hope not, for your
sake . . . .

-Don (don't know how to deal with that -- hope I never have to)
--
"What do *you* care what other people think?" --Arline Feynman
  #8  
Old December 3rd 06, 02:31 AM posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,369
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?

TC wrote:
Nova wrote:


TC wrote:

I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based
poly with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking
"things" (see links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to
a foam brush - same result (yes, I sanded first).

Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected.

I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's
happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How
can I salvage what I have done?


http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg
http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg



Was, by chance, the original finish an oil finish (non-film)?



Honestly, I don't know. But I sanded to bare wood. Would it make a
difference (if I sanded to bare wood and the old finish was oil)?


If it were an oil finish and you've used a furniture polish containing
silicone you may be experiencing "fish-eye" caused by silicone
contamination. If that is the case the new finish would have to be
removed and a barrier coat of shellac applied before the poly is applied.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

  #9  
Old December 3rd 06, 02:43 AM posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 67
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?


"TC" wrote in message
...
I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly
with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see
links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush -
same result (yes, I sanded first).

Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected.

I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's
happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How
can I salvage what I have done?


http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg
http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg
--



TC,

I've read the other replies but one possibility has not been mentioned. You
didn't say what your sanding schedule was or how you did it. Normally, you
would start with a coarse enough grit to remove the old finish then work on
up thru 100, 150 and 220 - then stop. If you went on up to higher grits,
there's a chance that you have burnished the wood by sanding to hard and to
long so there's no "tooth" left for the finish to grab on to. You get about
the same reaction - if it can't adhere - it puddles. If this is the case -
start sanding again and as other's have stated - it's time for some shellac.

Bob S.


  #10  
Old December 3rd 06, 03:19 AM posted to rec.woodworking
cm
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?

I agree with Mike that the old finish should not affect the new, but there
is some sort of reaction from a furniture polish or wax or??? Try the
shellac before applying more water based.

cm


"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

"cm" wrote in message
...
We use water based finishes almost exclusively in our shop. So this is

based
on my experience and what I see in your pictures.

I think you are getting an oil/water reaction to oil left in the wood.
You
are going to have to completely remove the new finish. Then finish sand

and
apply a coat of shellac. You can then proceed with your water based

finish.
The shellac should be a good buffer between the two. Try a test piece

first
to see if shellac and your water based are compatible.


If his oil based finish (original), as we are guessing it to possibly be,
is
older than a few weeks to a couple of months old, then there should be no
reaction between oil and water base. Actually, it should be reaction free
in less time than that, but I'm taking the tail between the legs, utlra
conservative approach to this. Once the finish is cured, there is no oil
left to react with a water based finish.

--

-Mike-





 




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