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Chuck Miller
 
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Default Face frame attachment with biscuits

I'm about to biscuit-attach a face frame for a bookcase, and it occurs
to me that if I don't get the rail lengths exactly right, the stile
slots won't mate with the carcase slots. I guess if they don't, I'll
have to adjust the position of the slots and re-biscuit-joint--not the
type of experimentation I am looking forward to. It just seems that
working with biscuits in two-dimensions is tricky business.

So, could anyone share their strategies for applying a precision fit to
a face frame/carcase attachment. Do only rails (or stiles) get the
biscuits? Do you first dry-fit the stiles, the cut (and attach with
pocket screws) the rails, then attach with biscuits.

What about overhanging the FF by a bit then using a flush-cutting router
bit? Would one cut the FF a bit proud, then adjust the slot on the FF
accordingly. Rather than doing this, I would prefer a flush fit,
however.

Thanks for any discussion/war stories.

Chuck
Colorado
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George
 
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Default Face frame attachment with biscuits


"Chuck Miller" wrote in message
.net...
I'm about to biscuit-attach a face frame for a bookcase, and it occurs
to me that if I don't get the rail lengths exactly right, the stile
slots won't mate with the carcase slots. I guess if they don't, I'll
have to adjust the position of the slots and re-biscuit-joint--not the
type of experimentation I am looking forward to. It just seems that
working with biscuits in two-dimensions is tricky business.


I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. Biscuit slots are normally
marked across dry-fitted joints, and are precise in only one dimension,
distance from the reference surface. Lots of adjustment laterally.

I clamp the components in place, check the fit (proud on the edges I must
scribe or plane), mark, and remove to make the slots. It has to fit wet as
it did on dry assembly. Doesn't really have another choice.


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Leon
 
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Default Face frame attachment with biscuits


"Chuck Miller" wrote in message
.net...

So, could anyone share their strategies for applying a precision fit to
a face frame/carcase attachment. Do only rails (or stiles) get the
biscuits? Do you first dry-fit the stiles, the cut (and attach with
pocket screws) the rails, then attach with biscuits.


Yes that can be tricky.

If painting the face frame I glue and finish nail. For a natural wood
finish, I build the face frames with dados on the back side to accept the
carcass. Pocket hole the face frame together. Build the carcass to fit
into the exiting face frame slots.


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Joe Barta
 
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Default Face frame attachment with biscuits

Chuck Miller wrote:

I'm about to biscuit-attach a face frame for a bookcase, and it
occurs to me that if I don't get the rail lengths exactly right,
the stile slots won't mate with the carcase slots. I guess if
they don't, I'll have to adjust the position of the slots and
re-biscuit-joint--not the type of experimentation I am looking
forward to. It just seems that working with biscuits in
two-dimensions is tricky business.

So, could anyone share their strategies for applying a precision
fit to a face frame/carcase attachment. Do only rails (or stiles)
get the biscuits? Do you first dry-fit the stiles, the cut (and
attach with pocket screws) the rails, then attach with biscuits.

What about overhanging the FF by a bit then using a flush-cutting
router bit? Would one cut the FF a bit proud, then adjust the
slot on the FF accordingly. Rather than doing this, I would
prefer a flush fit, however.

Thanks for any discussion/war stories.

Chuck
Colorado


I've never done any face frame construction, but I believe I
understand your question and have a thought on how I would tackle it.

I'd assemble the face frame, then make biscuit slots on both stiles.
Then make slots on the LEFT side of the carcass. I would hook a tape
into a slot on the face frame and measure precisely to the inside edge
of the opposing slot on the face frame. I would then transfer that
measurement to the carcass making a fine mark with a pencil. Then,
adjust the slot cutter to cut the carcass exactly on that line.

I'd say that if you're careful measuring, it should be a plenty
accurate fit.

Joe Barta
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Rumpty
 
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Default Face frame attachment with biscuits

You don't have to measure anything!

Place your face frame face down on your assembly table, position your
carcase onto the face frame in correct position.. Reach down into the case
from the carcase "top side" and draw a line onto the face frame where it
meets the carcase side. Now draw line onto the face frame where it meets
the outside of the carcase. Do this for the other side.

Mark 3 locations on the outside of the carcase and face frame where you want
your biscuits located.

Now slide your carcase left until the inside of the carcase meets the line
you drew on the outside. Go over to the right side of the carcase and cut
the biscuit slots into the face frame where you marked it. When done slide
the case to the right side and cut the biscuit slots on the left side.

Now turn your carcase over onto one side and place on a flat surface, cut
the biscuit slots into the case front, flip over and cut the remainder
slots. You will have to scribe your locations around the edge for this
operation.

This is a typical offset method of cutting biscuits and we use this system
for all sorts of project.

R


"Joe Barta" wrote in message
.. .
Chuck Miller wrote:

I'm about to biscuit-attach a face frame for a bookcase, and it
occurs to me that if I don't get the rail lengths exactly right,
the stile slots won't mate with the carcase slots. I guess if
they don't, I'll have to adjust the position of the slots and
re-biscuit-joint--not the type of experimentation I am looking
forward to. It just seems that working with biscuits in
two-dimensions is tricky business.

So, could anyone share their strategies for applying a precision
fit to a face frame/carcase attachment. Do only rails (or stiles)
get the biscuits? Do you first dry-fit the stiles, the cut (and
attach with pocket screws) the rails, then attach with biscuits.

What about overhanging the FF by a bit then using a flush-cutting
router bit? Would one cut the FF a bit proud, then adjust the
slot on the FF accordingly. Rather than doing this, I would
prefer a flush fit, however.

Thanks for any discussion/war stories.

Chuck
Colorado


I've never done any face frame construction, but I believe I
understand your question and have a thought on how I would tackle it.

I'd assemble the face frame, then make biscuit slots on both stiles.
Then make slots on the LEFT side of the carcass. I would hook a tape
into a slot on the face frame and measure precisely to the inside edge
of the opposing slot on the face frame. I would then transfer that
measurement to the carcass making a fine mark with a pencil. Then,
adjust the slot cutter to cut the carcass exactly on that line.

I'd say that if you're careful measuring, it should be a plenty
accurate fit.

Joe Barta





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Larry Bud
 
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Default Face frame attachment with biscuits


Rumpty wrote:
You don't have to measure anything!

Place your face frame face down on your assembly table, position your
carcase onto the face frame in correct position.. Reach down into the case
from the carcase "top side" and draw a line onto the face frame where it
meets the carcase side. Now draw line onto the face frame where it meets
the outside of the carcase. Do this for the other side.

Mark 3 locations on the outside of the carcase and face frame where you want
your biscuits located.

Now slide your carcase left until the inside of the carcase meets the line
you drew on the outside. Go over to the right side of the carcase and cut
the biscuit slots into the face frame where you marked it. When done slide
the case to the right side and cut the biscuit slots on the left side.

Now turn your carcase over onto one side and place on a flat surface, cut
the biscuit slots into the case front, flip over and cut the remainder
slots. You will have to scribe your locations around the edge for this
operation.

This is a typical offset method of cutting biscuits and we use this system
for all sorts of project.



So you're just using the offset amount of the biscuit cutter to get the
cutting position right?

When you slide the carcass left until the inside meets the line on the
outside, you're just using the carcass as a support for the cutter,
right?

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Rumpty
 
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Default Face frame attachment with biscuits

Yup Larry, exactly. This is only one variation of the offset method. Keep
in mind "most" biscuit joiners won't cut the the exact center of a 3/4"
piece of wood, so you need some way to reference a point so both pieces of
wood have the biscuit aligned.

R


"Larry Bud" wrote in message
ups.com...

Rumpty wrote:
You don't have to measure anything!

Place your face frame face down on your assembly table, position your
carcase onto the face frame in correct position.. Reach down into the
case
from the carcase "top side" and draw a line onto the face frame where it
meets the carcase side. Now draw line onto the face frame where it meets
the outside of the carcase. Do this for the other side.

Mark 3 locations on the outside of the carcase and face frame where you
want
your biscuits located.

Now slide your carcase left until the inside of the carcase meets the
line
you drew on the outside. Go over to the right side of the carcase and cut
the biscuit slots into the face frame where you marked it. When done
slide
the case to the right side and cut the biscuit slots on the left side.

Now turn your carcase over onto one side and place on a flat surface, cut
the biscuit slots into the case front, flip over and cut the remainder
slots. You will have to scribe your locations around the edge for this
operation.

This is a typical offset method of cutting biscuits and we use this
system
for all sorts of project.



So you're just using the offset amount of the biscuit cutter to get the
cutting position right?

When you slide the carcass left until the inside meets the line on the
outside, you're just using the carcass as a support for the cutter,
right?



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George
 
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Default Face frame attachment with biscuits


"Rumpty" wrote in message
news:wkzwf.1524$ID1.98@trndny01...
Yup Larry, exactly. This is only one variation of the offset method.
Keep in mind "most" biscuit joiners won't cut the the exact center of a
3/4" piece of wood, so you need some way to reference a point so both
pieces of wood have the biscuit aligned.


Use the touch gage you used to reference the face frame overhang from the
carcass to cut the slots in the sides, then remove to cut in the face frame.


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David
 
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Default Face frame attachment with biscuits

Rumpty wrote:

Keep
in mind "most" biscuit joiners won't cut the the exact center of a 3/4"
piece of wood, so you need some way to reference a point so both pieces of
wood have the biscuit aligned.



I think that's referred to as a "shim". g

Dave
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Rumpty
 
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Default Face frame attachment with biscuits

George,

I don't understand what you are saying here.

R


"George" George@least wrote in message
...

Use the touch gage you used to reference the face frame overhang from the
carcass to cut the slots in the sides, then remove to cut in the face
frame.





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Rumpty
 
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Default Face frame attachment with biscuits

Nope, you don't "shim" anything, cut your slots from the same reference
point and they will match.


"David" wrote in message
...
Rumpty wrote:

Keep
in mind "most" biscuit joiners won't cut the the exact center of a 3/4"
piece of wood, so you need some way to reference a point so both pieces
of wood have the biscuit aligned.



I think that's referred to as a "shim". g

Dave



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George
 
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Default Face frame attachment with biscuits


"Rumpty" wrote in message
news:hrAwf.537$GJ4.28@trndny08...
George,

I don't understand what you are saying here.


You overlay the face frame, on the thinner carcass, and it comes "X"
distance from the reference side. You establish "X" with a piece of wood
that you lay up against the carcass, which you flush up with your fingers.
After marking for your locations, put the thickness gage on the depth fence
of your cutter and leave it for the carcass cuts. When you remove it, you
will be able to make the corresponding cuts in the face frame with the
proper distance.

I'm almost sure it's in my DeWalt instructions.

Fence Shim Blade Cut is X+Y distance from face frame edge, Y from
carcass edge.
X Y



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David
 
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Default Face frame attachment with biscuits

George wrote:
"Rumpty" wrote in message
news:hrAwf.537$GJ4.28@trndny08...

George,

I don't understand what you are saying here.



You overlay the face frame, on the thinner carcass, and it comes "X"
distance from the reference side. You establish "X" with a piece of wood
that you lay up against the carcass, which you flush up with your fingers.
After marking for your locations, put the thickness gage on the depth fence
of your cutter and leave it for the carcass cuts. When you remove it, you
will be able to make the corresponding cuts in the face frame with the
proper distance.

I'm almost sure it's in my DeWalt instructions.

Fence Shim Blade Cut is X+Y distance from face frame edge, Y from
carcass edge.
X Y



He's already rejected the idea of shims.

Dave
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George
 
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Default Face frame attachment with biscuits


"David" wrote in message
...
He's already rejected the idea of shims.


Then call it an offset block!


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David
 
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Default Face frame attachment with biscuits

George wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...

He's already rejected the idea of shims.



Then call it an offset block!


or a jig g

Dave


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Rumpty
 
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Default Face frame attachment with biscuits

But but but but but.......you don't need shims (unless you are doubling a
joint) or gauge blocks, learn how to offset the Parts in relation to each
other.

R

"David" wrote in message
...
George wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...

He's already rejected the idea of shims.



Then call it an offset block!

or a jig g

Dave



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