Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
charlie b
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL

Many of our preferences are subconscious, often buried there by Madison
Avenue to get us to buy Brand X instead of Brank Y. But some of our
preferences are buried deeper than that, in the guts of our brain’s
wiring, tribal memories that were important enough to hardwire into our
brains. Anything red gets our attention, because blood is red when
exposed to air, and you need to know when you or someone you care about
is bleeding. We can recognize when something isn’t vertical - or
horizontal. At some point in our development that ability gave us a
valuable advantage - things roll off of surfaces that aren’t “level”, a
vertical pole will hold up something better than a pole at some angle
other than 90 degrees. Smoke meant something was hot. These types of
valuable things to know were drummed into the group’s children in order
to improve the survivability of the group into another generation. As
time went on some of this Need To Know stuff was built into religions
[THOU SHALT NOT EAT PORK (because it could give you trichonosis (sp?))]
and educational systems.

With this idea in mind, consider the following.

Before catalyzed lacquer, before poly, before shellac and maybe even
before bees wax and oils, somewhere way back when, shiny wood wasn’t
possible, or at least hard to achieve. OK, so if you rub a really
smooth stone fairly hard on a piece of wood, it’ll get shiny. However,
at some point in history, “just the wood” stopped being good enough.
Somewhere back there the wood that had been handled a lot got literaly
hand polished enough from the “oil” and abrasion of fingers and hands to
get shiny. Maybe Shiny From Use would mean that the wooden object was
valued enough to use often, be cared for, and passed down from
generation to generation. But Wear Shiny was only on the areas of the
wooden object that got handled a lot. At some point maybe shiny became
a maintenance plus - it’s easier to get dust, dirt and grime off of a
shiny object.

But over the eons humans found ways to make wood shiny without handling
it a lot and caring for it over generations. Having the entire object
shiny became a sign of quality, of the specialness of the object. It
still took a lot of time and effort to create a shiny surface, but not
generations worth of time. And it seems that the Quest For Shiny
continues to this day. Finishes with “diamond hard”, “crystal clear” and
“hi-luster” (don’t you just love how the marketing crowd try and change
the spelling of words?) get touted as New and Improved, Superior,
Crystal Clear - AND Easy To Apply for a “faultless, fool proof,
beautiful, durable, scratch resistant, low maintenance, high luster,
superior quality finish”. There are finish spray “systems”, airless,
HVLP! I’m waiting for Powder Coated Wood Finish.

Why SHINY!? More specifially, why make the whole piece shiny? OK, so
having the visible wear parts easy to keep clean and looking nice might
make sense. But why make ALL the visible surfaces shiny? Why not, on
surfaces that don’t require “shiny”, use a finish that “just” pops the
grain to show off the beauty of the wood without changing its colors and
feel much? Why try and make wood look like it’s under glass? Why not
just use “wood grained” formica type stuff if that’s what you want?

The irony of these finishes, shellac being the exception, is that
repairing a scratch or worn areas can mean refinishing much larger areas
of the piece, or even having to sand and refinish almost the entire
piece. The original furniture maker saves time applying the finish -
but what about the user?

Why not just sand to 180 or 220, or better yet just a finely scraped
surface (they were getting wood reallysmooth long before sandpaper was
invented) and wipe on (and off) a couple of coats of oil -boiled linseed
oil, “teak” oil or “danish” oil if you want to accentuate the grain? On
the visible wearing surfaces add a coat of wax or two or maybe a coat or
two of shellac . Places that get handled a lot will get even shinier,
while surfaces that don’t get much wear will keep the finish you
originally applied. If the latter doesn’t keep its original finish it
can quickly and easily be restored.

If “wood” is an important thing in your woodworking, why not, on your
next project, go with a finish that enhances it rather than “protects”
it?

Just something to think about.
  #2   Report Post  
John Girouard
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL

charlie b wrote:
Many of our preferences are subconscious, often buried there by Madison
Avenue to get us to buy Brand X instead of Brank Y. But some of our
preferences are buried deeper than that, in the guts of our brain’s
wiring, tribal memories that were important enough to hardwire into our
brains. Anything red gets our attention, because blood is red when
exposed to air, and you need to know when you or someone you care about
is bleeding. We can recognize when something isn’t vertical - or
horizontal. At some point in our development that ability gave us a
valuable advantage - things roll off of surfaces that aren’t “level”, a
vertical pole will hold up something better than a pole at some angle
other than 90 degrees. Smoke meant something was hot. These types of
valuable things to know were drummed into the group’s children in order
to improve the survivability of the group into another generation. As
time went on some of this Need To Know stuff was built into religions
[THOU SHALT NOT EAT PORK (because it could give you trichonosis (sp?))]
and educational systems.

With this idea in mind, consider the following.

Before catalyzed lacquer, before poly, before shellac and maybe even
before bees wax and oils, somewhere way back when, shiny wood wasn’t
possible, or at least hard to achieve. OK, so if you rub a really
smooth stone fairly hard on a piece of wood, it’ll get shiny. However,
at some point in history, “just the wood” stopped being good enough.
Somewhere back there the wood that had been handled a lot got literaly
hand polished enough from the “oil” and abrasion of fingers and hands to
get shiny. Maybe Shiny From Use would mean that the wooden object was
valued enough to use often, be cared for, and passed down from
generation to generation. But Wear Shiny was only on the areas of the
wooden object that got handled a lot. At some point maybe shiny became
a maintenance plus - it’s easier to get dust, dirt and grime off of a
shiny object.

But over the eons humans found ways to make wood shiny without handling
it a lot and caring for it over generations. Having the entire object
shiny became a sign of quality, of the specialness of the object. It
still took a lot of time and effort to create a shiny surface, but not
generations worth of time. And it seems that the Quest For Shiny
continues to this day. Finishes with “diamond hard”, “crystal clear” and
“hi-luster” (don’t you just love how the marketing crowd try and change
the spelling of words?) get touted as New and Improved, Superior,
Crystal Clear - AND Easy To Apply for a “faultless, fool proof,
beautiful, durable, scratch resistant, low maintenance, high luster,
superior quality finish”. There are finish spray “systems”, airless,
HVLP! I’m waiting for Powder Coated Wood Finish.

Why SHINY!? More specifially, why make the whole piece shiny? OK, so
having the visible wear parts easy to keep clean and looking nice might
make sense. But why make ALL the visible surfaces shiny? Why not, on
surfaces that don’t require “shiny”, use a finish that “just” pops the
grain to show off the beauty of the wood without changing its colors and
feel much? Why try and make wood look like it’s under glass? Why not
just use “wood grained” formica type stuff if that’s what you want?

The irony of these finishes, shellac being the exception, is that
repairing a scratch or worn areas can mean refinishing much larger areas
of the piece, or even having to sand and refinish almost the entire
piece. The original furniture maker saves time applying the finish -
but what about the user?

Why not just sand to 180 or 220, or better yet just a finely scraped
surface (they were getting wood reallysmooth long before sandpaper was
invented) and wipe on (and off) a couple of coats of oil -boiled linseed
oil, “teak” oil or “danish” oil if you want to accentuate the grain? On
the visible wearing surfaces add a coat of wax or two or maybe a coat or
two of shellac . Places that get handled a lot will get even shinier,
while surfaces that don’t get much wear will keep the finish you
originally applied. If the latter doesn’t keep its original finish it
can quickly and easily be restored.

If “wood” is an important thing in your woodworking, why not, on your
next project, go with a finish that enhances it rather than “protects”
it?

Just something to think about.


Well spoken, as usual. Though I would think that SHINY isn't necessarily the
only reason for using such finishes, and perhaps not the biggest. Sealing
the wood in order to minimize moisture exchange, and thus movement is a
valid goal IMHO. Today's furniture needs and wants are different from those
of pre-poly days. Sure, lots of those wants include changing aesthetics, but
quite a bit of today's furniture is larger. Computer desks immediately
spring to mind, but I'm sure there are others. Larger furniture implies
larger panels, and thus more potential for wood movement.

I'm always curious as to exactly what those who are offended by poly see
differently than I do. Perhaps they assume poly == a 1/2" thick bar-top
pour. I put 5 coats of Minwax (min-whacks for the more clever in the group)
poly on the crib I built for my son, and sure I'm biased, but it doesn't
look at all plasticy to me. Perhaps I applied it wrong, or the coats were
thinned too much. I can still feel the grain of the ash just fine through
the finish.

Self plug: http://john.girouard.com/Ethan/crib.jpg

As far as choosing a finish that enhances rather than protects the wood, I
see nothing wrong with wanting to protect one's hard work. Now, I wouldn't
lock my furniture up in a climate-controlled glass case, but then again, I'm
relatively new at this

-John in NH

  #3   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 09:44:42 -0800, charlie b
wrote:
....snip musings on the origin of our fascination with shiny things...



I’m waiting for Powder Coated Wood Finish.


your wait is over:
http://www.powdercoating.org/wood/content.htm


  #4   Report Post  
Toller
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL

I didn't actually read your WHOLE post...

Shiny shows up defects better. So it is a way of proving your work is
perfect. I think that is the main thing.



  #5   Report Post  
Swingman
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL

"charlie b" wrote in message

Before catalyzed lacquer, before poly, before shellac and maybe even
before bees wax and oils, somewhere way back when, shiny wood wasn't
possible, or at least hard to achieve. OK, so if you rub a really
smooth stone fairly hard on a piece of wood, it'll get shiny. However,
at some point in history, "just the wood" stopped being good enough.


The wood I can understand, but the current emphasis on shiny teeth ....

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/05





  #6   Report Post  
Robatoy
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL

In article ,
John Girouard wrote:

and sure I'm biased


You do excellent work, John...the crib is nice too..*G*
  #7   Report Post  
Jennifer Juniper
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL

Unfortunately, I have yet to find a book that has documented the beginnings
of wood finishing on furniture from ancient times until now. (I'd pay big
money for it if someone ever gets the research together.)

A very simple way I can see that wood finishing got started is...people who
used leather found that rubbing it with the fat of the animal kept the
leather from drying out and cracking. Someone later applied this concept to
wood using the oils from plants. I understand that many ancient Japanese and
Chinese people had techniques for oiling wood (and later techniques for
lacquering it.)

I think the first thought was how to protect the wood for what ever reason
(elements, warping, etc...) The techniques that people found works become
standard looks for wood that some people find attractive. Different finishes
and looks for wooden furniture have gone through fads throughout 'modern'
history. For example, milk paint finishes in early America. Perhaps shiny
wood equals modern looking to many people in this era. (And I'd prefer shiny
real wood to that paper- laminated pressboard crud that can be found even in
pieces of 'high end' furniture.)

Personally, I'm most interested in making what people would call 'rustic'
furniture. Beat up and dull equals cool to me. However, as a lot of the
things I make are going to be used outdoors, I try to find a way to protect
it without making it look shiny and new.
I certainly agree that some indoor pieces can look stunning without any
altering sealant on it. For me, it's just a matter of what use it's going to
get. However, to each their own.

My $1.50 ~ keep the change
~Jen


"charlie b" wrote in message
...
Many of our preferences are subconscious, often buried there by Madison
Avenue to get us to buy Brand X instead of Brank Y.

LOTS OF SNIPPING FOR SPACE THROUGHOUT
With this idea in mind, consider the following.

Before catalyzed lacquer, before poly, before shellac and maybe even
before bees wax and oils, somewhere way back when, shiny wood wasn't
possible, or at least hard to achieve. OK, so if you rub a really
smooth stone fairly hard on a piece of wood, it'll get shiny. However,
at some point in history, "just the wood" stopped being good enough.
Somewhere back there the wood that had been handled a lot got literaly
hand polished enough from the "oil" and abrasion of fingers and hands to
get shiny.

But over the eons humans found ways to make wood shiny without handling
it a lot and caring for it over generations. And it seems that the Quest

For Shiny
continues to this day. Finishes with "diamond hard", "crystal clear" and
"hi-luster" (don't you just love how the marketing crowd try and change
the spelling of words?) There are finish spray "systems", airless,
HVLP! I'm waiting for Powder Coated Wood Finish.

Why SHINY!? More specifially, why make the whole piece shiny? Why try and

make wood look like it's under glass? Why not just use "wood grained"
formica type stuff if that's what you want?

Why not just sand to 180 or 220, or better yet just a finely scraped
surface (they were getting wood reallysmooth long before sandpaper was
invented) and wipe on (and off) a couple of coats of oil -boiled linseed
oil, "teak" oil or "danish" oil if you want to accentuate the grain? On
the visible wearing surfaces add a coat of wax or two or maybe a coat or
two of shellac .
If "wood" is an important thing in your woodworking, why not, on your
next project, go with a finish that enhances it rather than "protects"
it?



  #8   Report Post  
Baron
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL

Hello charlie b,

You alluded to one reason, something shiny was harder to come by so it
indicated the owners wealth. One other reason for the preference of shiny
surfaces occurred before electirc lighting. A shiny surface reflected more
candle and fire light than a more dull surface. Shiny tables, chairs, etc.
made a room look brighter, although probably not too much, when the room was
lit by just a few candles or a fireplace.


  #9   Report Post  
charlie b
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL

John Girouard wrote:


I would think that SHINY isn't necessarily the
only reason for using such finishes, and perhaps not the biggest. Sealing
the wood in order to minimize moisture exchange, and thus movement is a
valid goal IMHO.


It's going to take on or lose moisture regardless of what you do
short
of encapsulating it in plastic or keeping it in a hermetically
sealed,
atmospherically controlled space. Wood will "move".

Today's furniture needs and wants are different from those
of pre-poly days. Sure, lots of those wants include changing aesthetics, but
quite a bit of today's furniture is larger. Computer desks immediately
spring to mind, but I'm sure there are others. Larger furniture implies
larger panels, and thus more potential for wood movement.


Actually, they got around the "large" problem" with frame and panel
methods. You need something taller - do more panels. You need
something longer - do more panels. For table tops - breadboard
ends and slots rather than holes where they attach to their supports.

If wood movement is a big issue there's always furniture grade
ply in whatever hardwood you want to see on the visbile face
or faces. Granted you have to hide the edges but that's not hard
to do - on straight, square edges at least.

I'm always curious as to exactly what those who are offended by poly see
differently than I do. Perhaps they assume poly == a 1/2" thick bar-top
pour. I put 5 coats of Minwax (min-whacks for the more clever in the group)
poly on the crib I built for my son, and sure I'm biased, but it doesn't
look at all plasticy to me. Perhaps I applied it wrong, or the coats were
thinned too much. I can still feel the grain of the ash just fine through
the finish.


Most of the "new" finishes - like poly - add a subtle hue to the
wood,
commonly blue, a color not normally found in wood (ok so Persian
Walnut has purple in it sometimes but that's the exception to the
rule). Most of the "traditional" finishes are in the yellow to
yellow
red part of the spectrum and can add warmth wood, in addition to
popping the grain - something poly doesn't do. I guess it's that
many of the newer finishes don't add the the "woodness" look and
feel of the piece.

There's still the repair problem with the New AND Improved
finishes. Takes a bit of work and some skill to hide "witness
rings" on a dining table top when repairing a problem in
poly or lacquer.

Bottom line is - if you like the finish you're using that's what
matters - to you. But at least try one of the "old" finishes,
at least once.


Powdered coated wood - IS NOTHING SACRED?!

Shiney shows less than perfect work and therefore
indicates quality and craftsmanship
Or it can try to make up for lousy wood and
bad joinery hidden under stains, maybe some
putty and lots of shiny surfaces


charlie b
  #10   Report Post  
Enoch Root
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL

charlie b wrote:
[when did shiny become cool]


I thought it was when MTV aired?

er
--
sanding wood and getting tired...


  #11   Report Post  
Charlie Self
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL


s wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 09:44:42 -0800, charlie b
wrote:
...snip musings on the origin of our fascination with shiny things...



I'm waiting for Powder Coated Wood Finish.


your wait is over:
http://www.powdercoating.org/wood/content.htm

All that's needed to powder coat any item is a method of making the
surface of the item hold an electrical charge for a few minutes. Oh,
yeah. Add to that a material that will resist at least a 400 deg. F.
oven temp.

I've got one of Craftsman's upcoming DIY powder coat guns that I'll be
experimenting with next week. I don't really plan on doing MDF with it,
and certainly I wouldn't upset Larry Jaques by powder coating cherry,
but there are some obvous benefits to using it on wood, particularly if
you're an antique car restorer and cannot find particular moldings for
your vehicle. Shape the pieces out of wood. Powder coat. Heat. Install.
Cost? I think the gun is supposed to retail for under $160.

Because there is no problem with dry edges and other vagaries of spray
painting, the primary limit to the size of the powder coating seems to
be the size of the oven available. Obviously, commercial ovens are
really hot rooms of some size. I'm using a toaster oven. I figure my
wife does NOT want the residue in the kitchen oven the next time she
makes a cake.

  #12   Report Post  
noonenparticular
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL


"charlie b" wrote in message
...
Many (snip of a good point) Just something to think about.



Amen, brother.

jc


  #13   Report Post  
George
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL


"charlie b" wrote in message
...

Why SHINY!? More specifially, why make the whole piece shiny? OK, so
having the visible wear parts easy to keep clean and looking nice might
make sense. But why make ALL the visible surfaces shiny? Why not, on
surfaces that don't require "shiny", use a finish that "just" pops the
grain to show off the beauty of the wood without changing its colors and
feel much? Why try and make wood look like it's under glass? Why not
just use "wood grained" formica type stuff if that's what you want?


You've swung at the wrong nail. The reason for shiny is that it is the
natural result of reflection from a flat surface. It's the flat surface
that we want, and we want, where the incident light doesn't reflect back
into our faces and shine, to look right through the finish with minimum
interference. That's what "pops" the grain, the lack of interference and
light scatter, which, of course, are not possible without a smooth surface.

Of course, it has been a practice in furniture-making for centuries to
polish the most visible surface and neglect the others by merely protecting
them. After all, they aren't in the same plane, and would never "shine"
simultaneously with the same light source.



  #14   Report Post  
Charles Spitzer
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL


"Baron" wrote in message
news:f05b7$436ac117$cf6730b7$25062@allthenewsgroup s.com...
Hello charlie b,

You alluded to one reason, something shiny was harder to come by so it
indicated the owners wealth. One other reason for the preference of shiny
surfaces occurred before electirc lighting. A shiny surface reflected
more
candle and fire light than a more dull surface. Shiny tables, chairs,
etc.
made a room look brighter, although probably not too much, when the room
was
lit by just a few candles or a fireplace.


shiny is associated with clean. dull is dirty.


  #15   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL

On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 09:19:18 -0700, "Charles Spitzer"
wrote:


"Baron" wrote in message
news:f05b7$436ac117$cf6730b7$25062@allthenewsgrou ps.com...
Hello charlie b,

You alluded to one reason, something shiny was harder to come by so it
indicated the owners wealth. One other reason for the preference of shiny
surfaces occurred before electirc lighting. A shiny surface reflected
more
candle and fire light than a more dull surface. Shiny tables, chairs,
etc.
made a room look brighter, although probably not too much, when the room
was
lit by just a few candles or a fireplace.


shiny is associated with clean. dull is dirty.



shiny is also associated with greasy. dull is clean.


  #16   Report Post  
Charlie Self
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL


s wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 09:19:18 -0700, "Charles Spitzer"
wrote:


"Baron" wrote in message
news:f05b7$436ac117$cf6730b7$25062@allthenewsgrou ps.com...
Hello charlie b,

You alluded to one reason, something shiny was harder to come by so it
indicated the owners wealth. One other reason for the preference of shiny
surfaces occurred before electirc lighting. A shiny surface reflected
more
candle and fire light than a more dull surface. Shiny tables, chairs,
etc.
made a room look brighter, although probably not too much, when the room
was
lit by just a few candles or a fireplace.


shiny is associated with clean. dull is dirty.



shiny is also associated with greasy. dull is clean.


Grease has a sheen, I think, not a shine. A bright, scrubbed, shiny
look is often associated with a clean person. What is that character in
Peanuts...Pigpen. He must be dull, a matte finish, as it were, with the
cloud of dust that follows him around.

Piano finishes are shiny, so that even the black pianos seem to glow.
Put grease--fingermarks--on a piano and it looks dirty, even if the
fingermarks themselves are shiny.

I'm not sure what the allure of shiny is, but cleanliness in matte
finish is a only a tiny part of the whole context...think of the chrome
(stainless steel) on your car. When that's shiny, it's clean. When it's
dull, it's dirty--or badly worn. Of course, today we have a lot of
nickel satin finishes and titaniumgray finishes that are dull and clean
and look pretty good.

Ah hell, I've just foncused myself.

  #17   Report Post  
Swingman
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL


"Charlie Self" wrote in message

I'm not sure what the allure of shiny is,


Other animals seem to feel the allure also ... from fish to raccoons.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/05



  #18   Report Post  
foggytown
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL

Wood use probably began with fallen tree branches/limbs tied together
with animal sinew or hide strips. Then some bright neo-wrecker thought
the branches used inside would look different (even better) if the bark
were stripped off. Then scraping the wood with a rock produced a
smoother surface. Then wiping crushed berries over the stripped branch
produced "colored" wood. And on . . . and on . . . and on . . .

I'd suggest it has all been a steady progress towards the general
"beautification" of mankind's surroundings and possessions. Shiny
objects attract the eye and are often considered to have a certain
aesthetic quality whereas dull objects are usually considered to be
utilitarian. (Gross generalization, I know.)

FoggyTown

  #19   Report Post  
John Girouard
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL

charlie b wrote:
Bottom line is - if you like the finish you're using that's what
matters - to you. But at least try one of the "old" finishes,
at least once.


I've done a couple of foot stools and a semi-fancy inlaid shelf with coat
pegs in some amber shellac since my one (and only) poly experience. I like
it a lot, and am anxious to try some blonde stuff. Shellac, that is

Thanks for the kind comments, Robatoy, and that's all the encouragement I
needed to go ahead and post a couple more images. Comments always welcome

http://john.girouard.com/ShelfFront.jpg
http://john.girouard.com/ShelfSide.jpg

-John in NH
  #20   Report Post  
foggytown
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL


foggytown wrote:
Shiny
objects attract the eye and are often considered to have a certain
aesthetic quality whereas dull objects are usually considered to be
utilitarian.


Try giving your woman a pumice stone ring and see what happens.

FoggyTown



  #21   Report Post  
Charlie Self
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL


Swingman wrote:
"Charlie Self" wrote in message

I'm not sure what the allure of shiny is,


Other animals seem to feel the allure also ... from fish to raccoons.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/05


Ravens and crows (just what IS the difference?) also like the bright
and shiny. Every nest I've ever heard of has had at least one shiny
item.

Not much woodshop on my site, and Google doesn't seem to have a way to
latch a signature line on this, but I just revised (after one whole day
up) my web site. www.charlieselfonline.com

You might get a kick out of some of the car shots.

  #22   Report Post  
Luigi Zanasi
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL

On 8 Nov 2005 14:03:52 -0800, "Charlie Self"
scribbled:

Ravens and crows (just what IS the difference?) also like the bright
and shiny. Every nest I've ever heard of has had at least one shiny
item.


Ravens (Corvus corax) are much bigger than other crows, usually more
than 2 feet long and with wingspans most often over 4 feet. Probably
the smartest bird, smarter than sled dogs whose food they tend to
steal. They also signal wolves where potential prey is, so the wolves
can kill them and the ravens get to feast. Pretty amazing birds to
watch. Extremely common around here in the winter where they like to
perch on street lights, especially the ones with photoelectric cells.
They have learned to warm themselves up by sitting on the cell and
turning on the light during the day. Also, we can't leave garbage out
in the open, it has to be in a garbage can or else they will get to it
and make a mess by strewing all the inedibles over the street.

Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...ct_Woodworking
  #23   Report Post  
Swingman
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL

"Charlie Self" wrote in message

Not much woodshop on my site, and Google doesn't seem to have a way to
latch a signature line on this, but I just revised (after one whole day
up) my web site. www.charlieselfonline.com

You might get a kick out of some of the car shots.


I've visited twice now ... absolutely gorgeous. There's a certain subtlety
in those photographs that bespeaks genius. My compliments to you.

Excellent design job on the website also.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05


  #24   Report Post  
Rob Fargher
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL

Charlie Self wrote:

Ravens and crows (just what IS the difference?)


They are different species. Ravens are larger, have a wedge-shaped tail
and a thicker, sturdier beak. Their call is a hoarse croak, occasionally
"Nevermore". Crows are smaller, have a square tail and their call is the
familiar "caw, caw". There are other differences but those are the easily
discernable ones in the field.


--
Cheers,
Rob
  #25   Report Post  
Charlie Self
 
Posts: n/a
Default When did SHINY become COOL


Swingman wrote:
"Charlie Self" wrote in message

Not much woodshop on my site, and Google doesn't seem to have a way to
latch a signature line on this, but I just revised (after one whole day
up) my web site. www.charlieselfonline.com

You might get a kick out of some of the car shots.


I've visited twice now ... absolutely gorgeous. There's a certain subtlety
in those photographs that bespeaks genius. My compliments to you.

Excellent design job on the website also.


The decent design job comes from friends who kept telling me what was
wrong. Works for me. I grump, but then take the advice and make the
changes.

I'm glad you like the photos. I'm having a lot of fun shooting the old
cars, which, I think, adds to the fun of shooting the tool sequences
and other woodworking photos.

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AC doesn't cool room Trent-Lion Home Ownership 4 June 26th 05 01:48 PM
Shiny Chipboard - can it be painted? Pedge UK diy 5 May 13th 05 01:19 PM
A/C not blowing cool air, house not cooling SilverR1_04 Home Repair 15 August 12th 04 03:50 AM
Home still warming even though thermostat set to cool Jeff and Beth Home Repair 3 March 5th 04 02:49 AM
cool deck removal jvan Home Repair 1 July 3rd 03 10:50 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:40 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"