Woodturning (rec.crafts.woodturning) To discuss tools, techniques, styles, materials, shows and competitions, education and educational materials related to woodturning. All skill levels are welcome, from art turners to production turners, beginners to masters.

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Default What do you look for on a woodturning club website?

As the new webmaster of the Silicon Valley Woodturners club
I'd like to know what you look for on a woodturning club website?

Are you willing to download a 3 or 4 meg PDF newsletter?

Do you look for How To stuff or prefer to peruse plenty of photos
of other folks work?

What about reviews of stuff - turning videos/DVDs, turning tools
and accessories, lathes etc.?

Would like to make svwoodturners.org a resource for other turners.
You're input would be much appreciated.

charlie b
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Default What do you look for on a woodturning club website?

as the webmaster for another site (www.woodturners.org) I would encourage
you to think of something that everybody and their brother doesn't already
do on their site - some things seem obligatory, like news letters, and
links. Beyond that, everyone already has tips and usually a gallery.

so the question is, what can you do that is different? I honestly don't
know, but this could be a good place for the discussion


"charlieb" wrote in message
...
As the new webmaster of the Silicon Valley Woodturners club
I'd like to know what you look for on a woodturning club website?

Are you willing to download a 3 or 4 meg PDF newsletter?

Do you look for How To stuff or prefer to peruse plenty of photos
of other folks work?

What about reviews of stuff - turning videos/DVDs, turning tools
and accessories, lathes etc.?

Would like to make svwoodturners.org a resource for other turners.
You're input would be much appreciated.

charlie b




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William Noble wrote:

as the webmaster for another site (www.woodturners.org) I would encourage
you to think of something that everybody and their brother doesn't already
do on their site - some things seem obligatory, like news letters, and
links. Beyond that, everyone already has tips and usually a gallery.

so the question is, what can you do that is different? I honestly don't
know, but this could be a good place for the discussion



A friend was in a civic organization assigned to get guest speakers.
He was told not to get a speaker that members probably have
heard at other civic organization meetings. On the other hand,
he was instructed not to get a speaker that no one had ever
heard of. When pointing out the contractory instructions he
was told to look for prominent unknowns.

The Everybody And Their Brother stuff is a waste of space and
bandwidth - IF it basically a copy of something already available.
However, given the Wild West nature of turning - no cold hard
fast rules, and the More Than One Way To Skin A Cat thing, there
may be value in showing two or three methods of accomplishing
the same thing - and getting someone who has had trouble with
one method to try one that might work better for them.

As a newbie, I found that there was a ton of information that those
with experience assumed was common knowledge and not worth
mentioning. Yet everything is built off fundamentals, much of which
ain't necessarily obvious to a newbie and often isn't in any books or
videos/DVDs. In solid wood furniture making, stock prep and the
importance of doing it properly isn't all that obvious to a newbie.
Buy boards from a lumber store and it's easy to assume that it's
flat, with straight edges square to the faces, flat parallel faces
and
ends cut square. Marking parts so you can keep track of what goes
where, and it's orientation is a newbie nightmare - though there
is a simple "Triangle Method" that's an obvious solution - once you
see it and how it's used. Marking reference faces, edges and ends
can help a lot when it comes to mortise and tenon joints that
require layout lines.

Now unlike the use of tools in other types of woodworking, turning
is very dynamic - the cutting tool often having a curved cutting
edge and requires the tool to be moved in several directions - while
being rotated on one or two axis. Maybe videos are essential.
But trying to video a cut can be really tricky. Simple animation
without any distracting extraneous info might be better - and
more easily understood.

Another approach would be to go for the weird - how to set precious
faceted stones in turnings, how to vaporize precious or unusual
metals onto turnings using a high vacuum system and an electron
beam gun to vaporize the metal and spray it on the wood (you actually
can do that), methods of electroforming metal onto a turned piece,
making metal form inlays using the lost wax casting method, ...

Anyone want to jump in here?

charlie b
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Default What do you look for on a woodturning club website?

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:32:27 -0800, charlieb
wrote:

As the new webmaster of the Silicon Valley Woodturners club
I'd like to know what you look for on a woodturning club website?


Personally, I don't know that I look for anything in particular in a
club's website, but then again, the only club I'm in is a
blacksmithing one that I've been too busy to attend in some time.

Are you willing to download a 3 or 4 meg PDF newsletter?


3 or 4 megs seems reasonable to me, with the prevelence of high speed
connections- but your dial up members might not care for that.

Though as personal preference, and I may easily be alone in this, I'd
avoid PDFs. Two reasons for that- first, I've got an older computer,
and PDFs load each page much more slowly than I can read them, and the
second is that a PDF doesn't allow you to cut and paste text. While
that might be be good when you're trying to prevent the file from
being altered by the reader, it makes links much less useful, IMO.

There is some nice technology out there for web-based newsletters,
though. I think if I were to make one, I'd use flash for content that
can be used to view it on the site, and just include a button that
would link to a print version for those who want a hard copy. You do
run into the fact that the end user needs the flash plugin, but that's
not a huge obsticle, and I've rarely seen anything that loads faster
and generates smaller files than flash (though the new photoshop gives
it a run for it's money.) That also makes it possible for you to
include demo videos and animated stuff if you want.

Do you look for How To stuff or prefer to peruse plenty of photos
of other folks work?


I like looking at pictures of other people's work- if it's not as good
as mine, sometimes I can offer some assistance, and if it's better
than mine, it's something to aspire to. I can't really see how much
"how-to" stuff a guy could include regarding turning, but I don't
suppose it would hurt to have a few plans for jigs, longsworth chucks,
segemented turning, etc.

What about reviews of stuff - turning videos/DVDs, turning tools
and accessories, lathes etc.?


I think there may be too much of that already, but that's just my
opinion on it. The problem is that when you get every amateur on
Earth reviewing the one example of something they've used, it dilutes
the value of reviews generally. Of course, I think we've all done it
from time to time- I'm certainly guilty of it, but it might be doing a
disservice to those who are reading the reviews. After a certain
point, the reviews become almost meaningless.

Would like to make svwoodturners.org a resource for other turners.
You're input would be much appreciated.


You know something that might be kind of neat, if you want to be a
resource for the larger turning community, is to have a section on
math, geometry and artistic proportions on there. A lot of what the
average turner does is more or less instinctual, but there are some
projects where it would be a benefit to someone to have an easy
reference page to use when doing something like laying out and cutting
segmented ring pieces or trying to figure out what people mean when
they mention a "fair" curve or the golden ratio.

It wouldn't have to be very intensive, and is probably better if it is
not- I know that from my own experience that trying to track down
something you don't know regarding a math (or chemestry) problem is
often a frustrating task at any level. A few of the basics for those
who aren't very well-versed in the subject might be valuable, and it's
not something that I've seen on many sites. Judging from some of your
projects you've linked to here in the past, I think you might be the
right guy for that particular job.
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Default What do you look for on a woodturning club website?

In message , charlieb
writes
As the new webmaster of the Silicon Valley Woodturners club
I'd like to know what you look for on a woodturning club website?

Are you willing to download a 3 or 4 meg PDF newsletter?

Do you look for How To stuff or prefer to peruse plenty of photos
of other folks work?

What about reviews of stuff - turning videos/DVDs, turning tools
and accessories, lathes etc.?

Would like to make svwoodturners.org a resource for other turners.
You're input would be much appreciated.

charlie b


I am a webmaster of a site in a different field which has sat at the top
of Google for the last 8 years, and I do not provide a news letter.

Depending if the content will contain personal information or not

What I would suggest is to Not have a news letter as such, but to have a
News section on the website. Which you just add new articles to, or
point to new additions to the website with a small intro. Members can
then choose to visit as they want and see the news they want. This will
first make maintenance of the site content easier, and secondly reduce
the large download, or mailing.

If you want you could then do a one liner email stating that the news
has been updated.

It really depends on if you want the site content publicly available or
restricted to members

I don't know if you use a content management system, but if not I would
recommend Drupal as a starting point. You can define who can access what
on the website. So visitors get a small view, members the whole view.

If you want to know more let me know and I will contact you privately,
as you probably guessed this email wont work

--
John


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Default What do you look for on a woodturning club website?

Charlie
I guess my question is twofold, who is the site for and what do they want to
read?
If the site is for the members of the guild, then a newsletter format and
archive is called for. Generally this means articles on upcoming events and
the results of past ones. A gallery of last meetining's "show and tell"
coupled with a more permanent gallery of turnings is a great feature which
displays an ongoing history of the club's achievments. Reviews of guest
turners or other speakers are great for members who have missed meetings or
stood at the back and missed stuff. Pictures are always good and short video
clips, possibly flash loaded, are helpful as well. General turning articles
are likely better achieved with links to other sites on the web. A links
page is definitely needed.

If the site is for the rest of the turning world, what I have already
outlined gives a taste of what your guild is doing. Other wise the limits
are off and you can post a ton of stuff, but you have to ask if your target
audience will ever see it or if it is doing a service to your guild.
Personally, I like to see a simple newsletter page for a guild with lits of
member's turnings to browse, but that is just me.

Let me know when the site is up and I will get a link to it on my site.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
http://aroundthewoods.com
http://roundopinions.blogspot.com
"John" wrote in message
...
In message , charlieb
writes
As the new webmaster of the Silicon Valley Woodturners club
I'd like to know what you look for on a woodturning club website?

Are you willing to download a 3 or 4 meg PDF newsletter?

Do you look for How To stuff or prefer to peruse plenty of photos
of other folks work?

What about reviews of stuff - turning videos/DVDs, turning tools
and accessories, lathes etc.?

Would like to make svwoodturners.org a resource for other turners.
You're input would be much appreciated.

charlie b


I am a webmaster of a site in a different field which has sat at the top
of Google for the last 8 years, and I do not provide a news letter.

Depending if the content will contain personal information or not

What I would suggest is to Not have a news letter as such, but to have a
News section on the website. Which you just add new articles to, or point
to new additions to the website with a small intro. Members can then
choose to visit as they want and see the news they want. This will first
make maintenance of the site content easier, and secondly reduce the large
download, or mailing.

If you want you could then do a one liner email stating that the news has
been updated.

It really depends on if you want the site content publicly available or
restricted to members

I don't know if you use a content management system, but if not I would
recommend Drupal as a starting point. You can define who can access what
on the website. So visitors get a small view, members the whole view.

If you want to know more let me know and I will contact you privately, as
you probably guessed this email wont work

--
John



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Default What do you look for on a woodturning club website?

Charlie,

I would urge you to make sure of one thing. Be absolutely positive
that you can keep everything that you put on the site UP TO DATE. The
local turners club has an extensive site with all kinds of ambitious
stuff. The problem is that what is on there is so out of date that it
tells you nothing about the club. The fact that they don't update has
kept me from even considering joining. If they are that slovenly about
their website I wouldn't expect to gain anything by joining. I even
emailed them to suggest they clean things up but didn't even get a
response. Take a look:

http://www.adirondackwoodturners.org/contents.htm

Some of the stuff hasn't been updated for so long (2002-3) that they
should be ashamed and some of the links have been "under development"
for even longer.

Larry
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charlieb wrote:
As the new webmaster of the Silicon Valley Woodturners club
I'd like to know what you look for on a woodturning club website?


Congratulations. I've seen your personal
site, and I'm sure you'll do a wonderful
job for them.

Are you willing to download a 3 or 4 meg PDF newsletter?


Yes, but I'd rather read it in HTML
That's my personal preference because
I'm never that fond of PDF. And yes, I
acknowledge that it's a ton more work to
do it that way.

Do you look for How To stuff or prefer to peruse plenty of photos
of other folks work?


Both, but I'm a very green newbie to
turning. I've seen Darrell's site and
I'd be using parts of that as a model to
emulate. His has a range of articles,
from relatively simple to more complex.
ie. Something for everyone.

But I think the real answer to this is
to poll the audience. Specifically the
SV turners. Sure it's worldwide but the
majority of your viewers will be from
the Bay area, and asking them what they
want will give you a pretty good idea of
how it should be laid out.

What about reviews of stuff - turning videos/DVDs, turning tools
and accessories, lathes etc.?


Different strategies can work out here
too. With reviews, you can hook up with
someone who does them and either copy
their work if they're agreeable or link
to them. The downside of that is the
dependence on them doing a reasonable
and fair job.

Another way to do that is to establish
reputations for people you know from the
club and get them to do all (or most) of
the reviews, if they're willing to do
that. Seeing a name I trust because of
past work is more likely to get me to
keep reading

Would like to make svwoodturners.org a resource for other turners.
You're input would be much appreciated.

charlie b


This may be simply a personal irk, or
just showing my age. But not much annoys
me more than typos, grammatical errors,
and poorly worded works. Spell check of
course, but that still misses some
glaring errors. If you can possibly find
someone who's willing, get all the work
previewed/edited/corrected before going
live. DAMHIKT

Good luck, charlie. I'm sure it'll be a
fine site

--
Tanus

This is not really a sig.

http://www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/
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Default What do you look for on a woodturning club website?

Charlie,

Like some have already mentioned, meet the needs of those the site is
built for and keep it simple. Instead of including a bunch of how-to
and articles, give them a links page that is FULL of links to sites
that already exist (heck, I'd be a regular if someone could give me an
all inclusive links page).

As Darrell said, a simple newsletter is a must. You've got to keep the
members updated on what is happening. Not everyone will be able to
attend club meetings every time, yet they are important members of the
club.

Photos and videos? I'd create a small members "Bragging Room" site
where members can show off what they've done. Use video as Darrell
said to show short clips of guest speakers.

The main thing is to find 1 to 2 people in the club to help you with
this. Building a web site is fun in the beginning, later it becomes
boring and in the way of your quality turning time. With others to
share the labor, the website won't turn into the link Larry wrote
about.

Just my 2 cents,
JD
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On Jan 19, 1:32 am, charlieb wrote:
As the new webmaster of the Silicon Valley Woodturners club
I'd like to know what you look for on a woodturning club website?

Are you willing to download a 3 or 4 meg PDF newsletter?

Do you look for How To stuff or prefer to peruse plenty of photos
of other folks work?

What about reviews of stuff - turning videos/DVDs, turning tools
and accessories, lathes etc.?

Would like to make svwoodturners.org a resource for other turners.
You're input would be much appreciated.

charlie b


Charlie,
First you have to meet the needs of your Guild members and it is them
you should be asking.
I have quite a collection of bookmarks and links to Guild sites and
have to say I rarely visit them more than once. Mainly they seem to be
clones of each other and apart from some slight content differences,
once you've seen one you've seen them all.
Perhaps your Guild members would like a directory of local suppliers
and services that members can add to. Also allows the Guild to contact
the businesses with good user ratings to set up discounts for Guild
members and also promotes local awareness in the business community
that your Guild exists.
There are some good ideas that jump out and hit you once in a while
and this site has one.
http://www.forestofberewoodturners.org.uk/
I'm talking about the International Competition. If ever there was a
good way to draw repeat visits this is it. The rest of the site is the
same old hohum stuff. I agree with other comments about updating the
site, this is one of my biggest complaints about most sites, my own
included.
Good luck with your new site and I will bookmark it when you get it up
and running.


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In article
,
ebd wrote:

Charlie,

I would urge you to make sure of one thing. Be absolutely positive
that you can keep everything that you put on the site UP TO DATE. The
local turners club has an extensive site with all kinds of ambitious
stuff. The problem is that what is on there is so out of date that it
tells you nothing about the club. The fact that they don't update has
kept me from even considering joining. If they are that slovenly about
their website I wouldn't expect to gain anything by joining. I even
emailed them to suggest they clean things up but didn't even get a
response. Take a look:

http://www.adirondackwoodturners.org/contents.htm

Some of the stuff hasn't been updated for so long (2002-3) that they
should be ashamed and some of the links have been "under development"
for even longer.

Larry


Re-posted for a reason... nothing is worse the "stale" info, like who is
going the be the speaker, three months ago

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This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
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On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:32:27 -0800, charlieb wrote:

Hey Charlie, since ya ask...

I was looking at AZ turning clubs this morning, looking for someone who might
guide me to a local source of bandsaw blades/ saw shops..
Few had addresses, none had a list of the cities they covered..

As the new webmaster of the Silicon Valley Woodturners club
I'd like to know what you look for on a woodturning club website?


Mostly links and ideas... and when I was in a club, how they were organized..

Are you willing to download a 3 or 4 meg PDF newsletter?

Not usually.. unless I lived in the area and knew the folks that the newsletter
was about..
OTOH, maybe it would save on postage if the members could get the pdf and no
snail mail involved?

Do you look for How To stuff or prefer to peruse plenty of photos of other folks work?


How to, and especially your specialty, tips/tricks.. after all, we're (the AAW)
a learning/recruiting body, right?

What about reviews of stuff - turning videos/DVDs, turning tools
and accessories, lathes etc.?


Not me personally, because I get that here, but it could get member
participation up by having members do reviews..

I noticed a trend this morning.. Most sites have 1 or 2 folks that give all the
tips and reviews.. Typical all over?

Would like to make svwoodturners.org a resource for other turners.
You're input would be much appreciated.

charlie b



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing
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On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 05:35:04 -0800 (PST), ebd wrote:

Charlie,

I would urge you to make sure of one thing. Be absolutely positive
that you can keep everything that you put on the site UP TO DATE. The
local turners club has an extensive site with all kinds of ambitious
stuff. The problem is that what is on there is so out of date that it
tells you nothing about the club. The fact that they don't update has
kept me from even considering joining. If they are that slovenly about
their website I wouldn't expect to gain anything by joining. I even
emailed them to suggest they clean things up but didn't even get a
response. Take a look:

http://www.adirondackwoodturners.org/contents.htm

Some of the stuff hasn't been updated for so long (2002-3) that they
should be ashamed and some of the links have been "under development"
for even longer.

Larry


Erkk... I have a friend that's in that club.. lol

I feel your pain.. When I lived in the States, it took me 6 months to FIND my
local club because the contact for the club whose email and phone was listed for
contact had been DEAD for a few years..

I have to wonder, though, if it was the clubs fault for not updating AAW, or
AAW's fault for not updating the contact list..

If I hadn't of met a guy in a saw shop that turned out to be in the club, I
never would have found it..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing
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On Jan 19, 1:02*pm, mac davis wrote:


I feel your pain.. When I lived in the States, it took me 6 months to FIND my
local club because the contact for the club whose email and phone was listed for
contact had been DEAD for a few years..


Dammit, Mac... if your going to type something like that, give fair
warning. I just about spewed coffee all over the place.

Talk about out of date, our local club's website had one section
updated every month to tell name of the guest turner and when it would
start. The rest of the site went untouched for about 2 - 3 years.

This part is probably pertinent to Mr. Beldon -

Part of the problem they had with the site was they tried to be all
things to all turners. They set up a member's gallery, tips and
tricks, a recap and pics to the month's previous meeting, membership
information and contact points for each, and on and on.

With all that in the monthly mix of things to do with the website, our
webmaster was also tasked with trying to make the page work properly,
answer questions about why the site didn't work with the Opera, or a
1924 Apple computer with a modem. He became tech support as well for
all the computer illiterates.

He QUICKLY became overwhelmed. He struggled on for a while, others
helping when they could, but it was too much. To make matters worse,
we had a large portion of the membership that passed into retirement
from professional life without ever touching a computer, and they were
damn proud of that fact. So he got no support there, either.

This is what is up now:

http://www.alamoturners.com/

He was tired of the complaining, the "suggestions of how to make it
better" that would take weeks of his spare time to make some of the
lesser experienced (or lazier) people, happy.

For me, I would think that putting up most of the pages in HTML would
be great. But, making PDFs is a snap anymore (that's how I send
contracts, invoices and inspection reports from my personal company),
so I think that links to pdf as well as a pdf library is great.

And it is amazing how small a pdf can be when there isn't heavy
background colors, multiple font colors and sizes, and not too many
pics. A link to your club library might be a great idea for someone
that wants to print and archive your club's work.

I personally thought our old webmaster could have saved himself a lot
of heartburn and overwork if he had linked to other sites. I
personally suggested that he link to Darrell's site when it was just a
couple of pages, namely the pages he had on making the sharpening
jigs. Why reinvent the wheel? I thought maybe a couple of comments,
then the link, and then any other pertinent comments on that subject.
The same with Bill Grumbines site (how to cut up a log), and some of
the old links I had to segmented turning and pen making.

He felt like he needed to put original, Alamo Woodturning content on
the site. He couldn't do it all; he has three kids, a wife, and a
full time job. Just doing the page layout with pics and commentary on
the month's previous meeting wore him out.

So, having witnessed your analytical mind on the matter of exploring
and reviewing the Festool Domino, I think whatever direction you go in
the site content will be great.

But I believe what I would be thinking of is who the site is actually
for. Who will use it? Why is it there?

Is it an information depository and current events kiosk for
your club's membership? Is it for your club to be able to archive
valuable turning information and club milestones that really are to be
appreciated by your own club? Realizing you will no doubt have
visitors other than your club members, will the thrust be 80% for your
club and 20% for others?

Or are you trying to be a nationally recognized site that others from
around the 'net gravitate to so they can see
something like going to the AAW site?

I think those are two entirely different things, and I think I would
be more worried about the direction of the website first to find my
target audience, then the content and delivery method of the
information will sort itself out.

As always....

Just my 0.02.

Robert

(can you tell I can't go play outside today?)
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I guess I fell into a classic newbie problem - too vague a question
(more acurately many questions) and way too few details/specifics.

Plenty of great ideas and suggestions - both DOs and DON'Ts.
Have gone through responses down to mac davis's post (1/10/08
0:51 am - PST/GMT?) and will download them and print them out so
I can make notes before responding.

Thanks to all who responded. Look foreward to more input.

charlie b


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ebd writes:

http://www.adirondackwoodturners.org/contents.htm

Some of the stuff hasn't been updated for so long (2002-3) that they
should be ashamed and some of the links have been "under development"
for even longer.


Well, it's good to know they will be hosting the 2005 Totally Turning
conference. I'll have to check back later to get the details. :-)

p.s. I am a member, and they are very active, but the web site is
nearly useless. There is suppose to be a newsletter on the web site,
but the most recent is a year old.

They asked me what skills I have when I joined, and when I mentioned
computers, they said they had lots of people who were "skilled" in
computers.

I think what they are lacking is someone dedicated to constant
improvement and refinement of the web site. Or perhaps no one is
willing to give one such person total control.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

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Default What do you look for on a woodturning club website?

Reading through these posts reminded me of the 'create a group' button
you see at the bottom of these screens. The button allows one to set
up a group similar to this woodturning group except people can send e-
mails with pictures attached (I set one up a crude test one to see
what might work and you can do the same).

One of my assignments before retiring was to set up an
'intranet' (inside the organization) site for a county attorney's
office. The whole idea was to lessen the need for programmers and let
the people in the office post whatever they wanted to in different
categories.

Does anyone have any experience with using a Google group for an
organization instead of setting up a web page where a volunteer
webmaster needs to be in the loop for getting anything put on the web
page?

Although I assume I was just scratching the surface on what the
Google group could do, it seems like they may be a better way to go
for a turning club (at least at first) The Google groups are not as
fancy but sound like a good way to get the word out on a club's
activities. My guess is you get lots of valuable information from
this Google group and there is no need for a webmaster to post your
comment to this group.

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Default What do you look for on a woodturning club website?

In article
,
TWW wrote:

Reading through these posts reminded me of the 'create a group' button
you see at the bottom of these screens. The button allows one to set
up a group similar to this woodturning group except people can send e-
mails with pictures attached (I set one up a crude test one to see
what might work and you can do the same).

One of my assignments before retiring was to set up an
'intranet' (inside the organization) site for a county attorney's
office. The whole idea was to lessen the need for programmers and let
the people in the office post whatever they wanted to in different
categories.

Does anyone have any experience with using a Google group for an
organization instead of setting up a web page where a volunteer
webmaster needs to be in the loop for getting anything put on the web
page?

Although I assume I was just scratching the surface on what the
Google group could do, it seems like they may be a better way to go
for a turning club (at least at first) The Google groups are not as
fancy but sound like a good way to get the word out on a club's
activities. My guess is you get lots of valuable information from
this Google group and there is no need for a webmaster to post your
comment to this group.


You do realize that this newsgroups has NOTHING to do with Google,
right? It predates Google by years (and years). Google just carries it

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv
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Default What do you look for on a woodturning club website?

In message
, TWW
writes
Reading through these posts reminded me of the 'create a group' button
you see at the bottom of these screens. The button allows one to set
up a group similar to this woodturning group except people can send e-
mails with pictures attached (I set one up a crude test one to see
what might work and you can do the same).

One of my assignments before retiring was to set up an
'intranet' (inside the organization) site for a county attorney's
office. The whole idea was to lessen the need for programmers and let
the people in the office post whatever they wanted to in different
categories.

Does anyone have any experience with using a Google group for an
organization instead of setting up a web page where a volunteer
webmaster needs to be in the loop for getting anything put on the web
page?

Although I assume I was just scratching the surface on what the
Google group could do, it seems like they may be a better way to go
for a turning club (at least at first) The Google groups are not as
fancy but sound like a good way to get the word out on a club's
activities. My guess is you get lots of valuable information from
this Google group and there is no need for a webmaster to post your
comment to this group.

One thing to consider when looking at any service that is run by someone
else, is do they as part of the terms lay claim to the copyright of the
content ?

If you put up your website at your domain, then your material is your
copyright. Other than that which is copyright someone else, but used by
permission, though the format you chose for its display becomes your
copyright.

If the service you use were to lay claim to copyright of your content
then, it can get quite complex and messy if you include material
copyright elsewhere.
--
John
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Posts: 35
Default What do you look for on a woodturning club website?

You do realize that this newsgroups has NOTHING to do with Google,
right? It predates Google by years (and years). Google just carries it


Thanks for the comment since it caused me to look a little. I have
wished this group would allow pictures but assumed it was a Usenet
group back from the old days and that was why. But then why do other
'Google groups' allow pictures.? In http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Groups
the author of the items says:

"Google provides two distinct kinds of groups: traditional Usenet
groups, and non-Usenet groups that are more similar to mailing lists.
The Google Groups user interface and help messages do not use a
distinct name for mailing-list style groups, referring to them as
Google Groups. [1]

The two kinds of groups differ both in the technology used and how
they are governed.

A Usenet group is decentralized and not hosted by any single
organization. Google archives messages posted to Usenet groups and
provides a web interface for accessing them, but many other
organizations also provide access on an equal basis. Many
organizations other than Google allow Usenet groups to be read with
news reader software that uses the NNTP protocol. Most Usenet groups
are unmoderated, which means that nobody controls who may post to
them. (See Usenet.)

A regular Google Group is hosted by Google, although some may be
archived elsewhere. These groups can be accessed using a web browser
or by subscribing to receive email, but can't be accessed using a
Usenet news reader. They have one or more owners who decide who is
allowed to subscribe to the group and whether non-members can access
the group. This form of governance is similar to that provided by many
other mailing list providers (See Mailing list.)"

I assume if someone created a 'Google group' using the link at the
bottom of this page it would be the second kind.

The Wisconsin Woodlot Owners created a 'Yahoo group' at :
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/wwoa/ That is where I got the idea
and was curious if other organizations are creating 'groups' rather
than Web pages and if there were any reasons to go one way or the
other (like copyrights mentioned in another posting).


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Default What do you look for on a woodturning club website?

Charlie,
The two clubs I belong to are blessed with computer people to post what an
excellent writer has assembled, that is, a newsletter containing detailed
description of the month's demonstrator, instant gallery pictures, tips and
techniques. Reviewing the history is an education in itself.

Web site includes a communication setup to pass on email news or stuff for
sale or etc. Mass emails work great.

Next year's demonstrator schedule is available with descriptions and links
to their sites.

AAW link plus a couple others.

This thoroughness helps absent members keep up and refresh what they think
they heard. I found in originally exploring turning that across the country
you can learn a lot exploring their sites - some good, some not so good.

I've come to like and will participate this year in the one club's "Monthly
Challenge". This amounts to 11 different projects with participation noted.
End of year any that completed all receive a $50 gift certificate to the
Klingspor store that hosts the meetings.

Good luck, TomNie



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Default What do you look for on a woodturning club website?

First - the Google Groups tangent - then back to Criteria For a Turning
Club Website.

Silicon Valley Woodturners has a Yahoo Group - similar structure
as Google. There's a Message Board, a Files area, a Photos area
and so on. This group is set up as Members Only - with an even
more "secure" area that's requires an additional password to
get into. Great for inter-club communication and a depository
for club info. BUT - it's one, or, in this case, two more user
names and passwords to keep track of. AND the navigation
is - poor. Don't know about Google, but with Yahoo it's a
See the Text BUT Not The Photo - OR - See the Photo But Not
It's Text. Context gets fragmented. AND - Yahoo periodically
changes their software and login procedures. What worked
yesterday may or may not work today - or tomorrow. Finding
out WHY can take days. Sometimes the new software won't
work with certain browsers, or older versions of browsers.

I'm on a Mac (Apple computer), using Netscape 3.0 for most
browsing, and Explorer 5.0 for sites where Netscape 3.0
doesn't work (it's a java scripts thing primarily). Yahoo changed
something that makes accessing SVwoodturners group
impossible - unless I move to Mac OSX. I can do that and use
Safari - but that requires rebooting into the newer operating
system - and that has its own "challenges" (older software
that I know like the back of my hand doesn't always work
with the newer OS)

The advantage to doing a club website is that it can be kept
pure Vanilla - no whistles and bells which may or may not work
with older browsers or some browsers. JAVA was a great idea,
a platform and operating system independent language with
plenty of power - IF standards were set and followed. ALAS
MicroSoft "joined", took the concept, and ignored all the standards
- perhaps as part of what has been called "their predatory way
of doing business" (steal the food and starve or kill any competitors.

Now back to the criteria for a good turning club web site.

My goal, as the club webmaster, is to promote the club, the
AAW and turning in general. To do that I want "non-private"
club info available to as many members - and turners in general -
as possible, and as easily accessible as possible.

Now several contributors to this thread have pointed out
what I think is critical to a club site like this - keeping it up
to date. That means not only keeping club information up
to date - but also fixing problems people find - like dead
links, missing photos or illustration or bad e-mail addresses.
Those are things that visitors can help with - IF - you a) make
a point of asking for help and b) provide a way for visitors to
give you feedback.

I've often visited a site, found a problem and then tried to
find out how to provide feedback. If it's more trouble than
it's worth, I just move on. If it's easy to let someone know
there's a problem I'll try and help.

So, I've made a point of providing a feedback method -
on each web page. And, if someone lets me know there's
a problem on the site, I'll fix it and send back an e-mail
with a thank you and a link to the page that had the problem.

One of the challenges of doing a web site is navigation -
can you see what's on the site easily - or do you have to
dig for it. Frames are one way of doing that - but frames
take up precious screen space - and aren't always compatible
with some browsers. They also can make bookmarking
an interesting page tricky since the bookmark may not
get you back to the stuff you wanted to see again later.

ANYWAY - the first cut at the SVwoodturners.org site
is up. Still needs some fleshing out - but the guts are
there. Comments, suggestions, constructive criticism
would be appreciated.

charlie b
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In message , charlieb
writes
ANYWAY - the first cut at the SVwoodturners.org site
is up. Still needs some fleshing out - but the guts are
there. Comments, suggestions, constructive criticism
would be appreciated.

charlie b


Hi Charlie
My first reaction is that you have set the minimum ideal resolution too
high. Go for 800x600 as there are still plenty out there using it

Second
DO NOT put an email address on the website that is clickable.
Use an image of the email address, This may require the user to type it
into their browser, which is a small effort, but has a tendency to deter
some people from making contact, and they will, because they are too
lazy to look on your site for the information. The BIG advantage of
using an image is that it is not harvestable by BOTS looking for email
addresses to use in SPAM. I went over to this method over 5 years ago,
and do not get any Spam to my listed addresses, however the addresses I
was using in 1998 get tens of thousands a day !

On your links you have "ALWAYS UNDER CONSTRUCTION" that's a no, like the
guy digging a hole etc., very much the last decade. When people read it
they tend to think, not worth looking at as its not complete will look
later, so go away. They usually forget to come back too

Consistency of Layout Mainly logo I notice you have two, and position
seems to vary

Consider making the links "====== Back to the Silicon Valley
Woodturners Home Page" just read Home, and put one at top and one at
bottom of the page

just a few thoughts, hope they are of use from a few minute scan.
--
John
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Default What do you look for on a woodturning club website?

Charlie, I tried searching Silicon Valley Woodturners and got nothing on
Yahoo.

TomNie

"charlieb" wrote in message
...
First - the Google Groups tangent - then back to Criteria For a Turning
Club Website.

Silicon Valley Woodturners has a Yahoo Group - similar structure
as Google. There's a Message Board, a Files area, a Photos area
and so on. This group is set up as Members Only - with an even
more "secure" area that's requires an additional password to
get into. Great for inter-club communication and a depository
for club info. BUT - it's one, or, in this case, two more user
names and passwords to keep track of. AND the navigation
is - poor. Don't know about Google, but with Yahoo it's a
See the Text BUT Not The Photo - OR - See the Photo But Not
It's Text. Context gets fragmented. AND - Yahoo periodically
changes their software and login procedures. What worked
yesterday may or may not work today - or tomorrow. Finding
out WHY can take days. Sometimes the new software won't
work with certain browsers, or older versions of browsers.

I'm on a Mac (Apple computer), using Netscape 3.0 for most
browsing, and Explorer 5.0 for sites where Netscape 3.0
doesn't work (it's a java scripts thing primarily). Yahoo changed
something that makes accessing SVwoodturners group
impossible - unless I move to Mac OSX. I can do that and use
Safari - but that requires rebooting into the newer operating
system - and that has its own "challenges" (older software
that I know like the back of my hand doesn't always work
with the newer OS)

The advantage to doing a club website is that it can be kept
pure Vanilla - no whistles and bells which may or may not work
with older browsers or some browsers. JAVA was a great idea,
a platform and operating system independent language with
plenty of power - IF standards were set and followed. ALAS
MicroSoft "joined", took the concept, and ignored all the standards
- perhaps as part of what has been called "their predatory way
of doing business" (steal the food and starve or kill any competitors.

Now back to the criteria for a good turning club web site.

My goal, as the club webmaster, is to promote the club, the
AAW and turning in general. To do that I want "non-private"
club info available to as many members - and turners in general -
as possible, and as easily accessible as possible.

Now several contributors to this thread have pointed out
what I think is critical to a club site like this - keeping it up
to date. That means not only keeping club information up
to date - but also fixing problems people find - like dead
links, missing photos or illustration or bad e-mail addresses.
Those are things that visitors can help with - IF - you a) make
a point of asking for help and b) provide a way for visitors to
give you feedback.

I've often visited a site, found a problem and then tried to
find out how to provide feedback. If it's more trouble than
it's worth, I just move on. If it's easy to let someone know
there's a problem I'll try and help.

So, I've made a point of providing a feedback method -
on each web page. And, if someone lets me know there's
a problem on the site, I'll fix it and send back an e-mail
with a thank you and a link to the page that had the problem.

One of the challenges of doing a web site is navigation -
can you see what's on the site easily - or do you have to
dig for it. Frames are one way of doing that - but frames
take up precious screen space - and aren't always compatible
with some browsers. They also can make bookmarking
an interesting page tricky since the bookmark may not
get you back to the stuff you wanted to see again later.

ANYWAY - the first cut at the SVwoodturners.org site
is up. Still needs some fleshing out - but the guts are
there. Comments, suggestions, constructive criticism
would be appreciated.

charlie b



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In article
,
" wrote:

This is what is up now:

http://www.alamoturners.com/

He was tired of the complaining, the "suggestions of how to make it
better" that would take weeks of his spare time to make some of the
lesser experienced (or lazier) people, happy.


One suggestion for the Alamo site - make sure all year dates are up to
date and showing the current year. For example, the officers shows
2006-2007. When I read this, it sends up red flags... has the page been
updated since then and they merely overlooked changing the year for the
new officers or is it an old page which means the Jan's Demo on
birdhouse earrings is old too? Now I can't use the information on the
page since I have no idea whether it's accurate or not.

I am in favor of simple websites. Tricky Javascript, Flash or other
doodads merely complicate and frustrate not only the viewer but the
site's manager as well. There are so many browsers out there, so many
monitor sizes, and so many 'net connection methods - plus the
inexperience of many viewers to troubleshoot at their end of the stream
- that you can't rely on any single notion of how your viewer is
accessing the pages.

Here is the one I made and update monthly which takes about 10 minutes:

http://www.northwestwoodturners.com

It's a little clunky in some aspects, but it's simple and seems to play
well with a number of browsers. Each December or January, I go through
every page and downloadable file to change the names, emails and phone
#s of the guilty plus check web links. Otherwise it's merely a matter of
uploading newsletters (which the editor does on his own) and deleting
the past event and adding the next month in the progression - I try to
detail out at least 2 months.

--
Owen Lowe

Northwest Woodturners
Pacific Northwest Woodturning Guild
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