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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

I'm considering purchasing a bowl gouge from Woodcraft. I figure the gouge
should have a bar diameter of at least 1/2". I can only afford one bowl
gouge at this time and I'm stuck between a 3/8" or 1/2". I'm currently
working on a Delta Midi and not turning large pieces. Which of the
following manufacturers is the best value for the dollar: Pinnacle, Sorby,
Ellsworth Signature or Crown Pro PM? Thanks in advance....Joel


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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

It kinda depends on what you like to turn, but I think if I were you, I'd go
for the 1/2 inch tool and ignore the elsworth (you are paying for his name
and you can duplicate the grind) and the PM ($$ and doesn't get quite as
sharp) - if $$ are important, and it sounds like they are, consider getting
the tool without a handle and making your own - that saves you a fair
amount - make the ferrule on the handle out of a short scrap of EMT or
copper pipe.

then make grind the tip the way you think you want it.

My lathe is a bit bigger than yours, but I use mostly a 1/2 inch gouge and a
5/8 glaser gouge and (believe it or not) a really old carbon steel (not
HSS!!!) crafstman (!!!) spindle gouge - you can get a shaper edge on carbon
steel than HSS but it doesn't last as long.


"skidog" skidog@snownews wrote in message
...
I'm considering purchasing a bowl gouge from Woodcraft. I figure the
gouge should have a bar diameter of at least 1/2". I can only afford one
bowl gouge at this time and I'm stuck between a 3/8" or 1/2". I'm
currently working on a Delta Midi and not turning large pieces. Which of
the following manufacturers is the best value for the dollar: Pinnacle,
Sorby, Ellsworth Signature or Crown Pro PM? Thanks in advance....Joel




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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

I mainly agree with Bill N -- 1/2" is the most useful size and buy
unhandled.

Why are you limiting your choices to those sold by Woodcraft? You can
buy the P & N HSS 1/2" bowl gouge unhandled for $39.00 + shipping --
www.packardwoodworks.com. This tool is a class act -- unlike the Asian
imports which may or may not be real tools.

Bill R

William Noble wrote:
It kinda depends on what you like to turn, but I think if I were you, I'd go
for the 1/2 inch tool and ignore the elsworth (you are paying for his name
and you can duplicate the grind) and the PM ($$ and doesn't get quite as
sharp) - if $$ are important, and it sounds like they are, consider getting
the tool without a handle and making your own - that saves you a fair
amount - make the ferrule on the handle out of a short scrap of EMT or
copper pipe.

then make grind the tip the way you think you want it.

My lathe is a bit bigger than yours, but I use mostly a 1/2 inch gouge and a
5/8 glaser gouge and (believe it or not) a really old carbon steel (not
HSS!!!) crafstman (!!!) spindle gouge - you can get a shaper edge on carbon
steel than HSS but it doesn't last as long.


"skidog" skidog@snownews wrote in message
...

I'm considering purchasing a bowl gouge from Woodcraft. I figure the
gouge should have a bar diameter of at least 1/2". I can only afford one
bowl gouge at this time and I'm stuck between a 3/8" or 1/2". I'm
currently working on a Delta Midi and not turning large pieces. Which of
the following manufacturers is the best value for the dollar: Pinnacle,
Sorby, Ellsworth Signature or Crown Pro PM? Thanks in advance....Joel






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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

Why a bowl gouge? I really like my Oland tools to the point where I hardly
ever use a bowl gouge anymore, (for the last 6 or 7 years). For under $10.00
you can make one or two Olands and away you go.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS
http://aroundthewoods.com
http://roundopinions.blogspot.com

"skidog" skidog@snownews wrote in message
...
I'm considering purchasing a bowl gouge from Woodcraft. I figure the
gouge should have a bar diameter of at least 1/2". I can only afford one
bowl gouge at this time and I'm stuck between a 3/8" or 1/2". I'm
currently working on a Delta Midi and not turning large pieces. Which of
the following manufacturers is the best value for the dollar: Pinnacle,
Sorby, Ellsworth Signature or Crown Pro PM? Thanks in advance....Joel



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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

Why are you limiting your choices to those sold by Woodcraft? You can
buy the P & N HSS 1/2" bowl gouge unhandled for $39.00 + shipping --www.packardwoodworks.com.


I'll second that. Two things I'd add. It's easier to control a tool
that's a little too big than one that's a little too small. I'd
certainly go for the 1/2". I'd use the grind it comes with untill I
got a sharpening system (like a Wolverine).



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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

Bill:
I'm stepping up in tool quality and like seeing and getting the feel of the
tool before I buy it. I've got a Woodcraft store in my area and next
weekend I can get 10% off my purchase.
"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message
et...
I mainly agree with Bill N -- 1/2" is the most useful size and buy
unhandled.

Why are you limiting your choices to those sold by Woodcraft? You can buy
the P & N HSS 1/2" bowl gouge unhandled for $39.00 + shipping --
www.packardwoodworks.com. This tool is a class act -- unlike the Asian
imports which may or may not be real tools.

Bill R

William Noble wrote:
It kinda depends on what you like to turn, but I think if I were you, I'd
go for the 1/2 inch tool and ignore the elsworth (you are paying for his
name and you can duplicate the grind) and the PM ($$ and doesn't get
quite as sharp) - if $$ are important, and it sounds like they are,
consider getting the tool without a handle and making your own - that
saves you a fair amount - make the ferrule on the handle out of a short
scrap of EMT or copper pipe.

then make grind the tip the way you think you want it.

My lathe is a bit bigger than yours, but I use mostly a 1/2 inch gouge
and a 5/8 glaser gouge and (believe it or not) a really old carbon steel
(not HSS!!!) crafstman (!!!) spindle gouge - you can get a shaper edge on
carbon steel than HSS but it doesn't last as long.


"skidog" skidog@snownews wrote in message
...

I'm considering purchasing a bowl gouge from Woodcraft. I figure the
gouge should have a bar diameter of at least 1/2". I can only afford
one bowl gouge at this time and I'm stuck between a 3/8" or 1/2". I'm
currently working on a Delta Midi and not turning large pieces. Which
of the following manufacturers is the best value for the dollar:
Pinnacle, Sorby, Ellsworth Signature or Crown Pro PM? Thanks in
advance....Joel








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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

Thanks for all the great replies,
I'm mainly turning small bowls using exotic hardwoods and find that my
carbon steel tools dull quickly. It's time to add quality tools to the
workshop that will stay sharp and get the job done quicker. When I asked
about tools that were a good value, I was referring to reliable, high
quality tools that weren't charging an extra $20 for name recognition. I
will most probably by a handled tool this time around but will be looking at
Packard Tools in my next upgrade. Thanks again...Joel
"skidog" skidog@snownews wrote in message
...
I'm considering purchasing a bowl gouge from Woodcraft. I figure the
gouge should have a bar diameter of at least 1/2". I can only afford one
bowl gouge at this time and I'm stuck between a 3/8" or 1/2". I'm
currently working on a Delta Midi and not turning large pieces. Which of
the following manufacturers is the best value for the dollar: Pinnacle,
Sorby, Ellsworth Signature or Crown Pro PM? Thanks in advance....Joel



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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?


"skidog" skidog@snownews wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the great replies,
I'm mainly turning small bowls using exotic hardwoods and find that my
carbon steel tools dull quickly. It's time to add quality tools to the
workshop that will stay sharp and get the job done quicker.


I fear you're in for a disappointment. The main reason the tools dull is
the silica and such in the wood abrading the edge. The reason we use alloy
rather than high carbon is for its resistance to heat breakdown. That's
your department. Don't press too hard and you'll develop less heat. You'll
also keep the piece on its mount and preserve your elbow. Best cut is the
one that takes the least effort.

Only thing I would recommend would be a U over a V shape. I get to heavy
hogging and the shavings fold sometimes in a V rather than flow in a U .
That jams the business end, and I'm never quite bright enough to remember to
push out from inside the flute rather than brush my hand over the folded
wood that barely conceals the sharp edges.

Darrell's point about the Oland is well taken. If you're hogging only, and
using faceplates versus chuck mounts, you might find that a good way to go.
I prefer a gouge, but others like the Hippy use broad methods on wet wood
all the time too. Advantage to the gouge is that it makes a good controlled
cut dry as well as a poke and swoop hogging one. Hogging still.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...e/422896ce.jpg Peeling
video.
http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...ent=Inside.flv
"Bowl" gouge first, but no roll to the wings to speak of, then a flat 1/8"
thick 1/2 wide forged gouge with a loose handle to trim.

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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 22:05:48 -0400, "skidog" skidog@snownews wrote:

I'm considering purchasing a bowl gouge from Woodcraft. I figure the gouge
should have a bar diameter of at least 1/2". I can only afford one bowl
gouge at this time and I'm stuck between a 3/8" or 1/2". I'm currently
working on a Delta Midi and not turning large pieces. Which of the
following manufacturers is the best value for the dollar: Pinnacle, Sorby,
Ellsworth Signature or Crown Pro PM? Thanks in advance....Joel

Contrary to the rest of the group, I'd suggest going a bit less quality and more
bang for the buck...

When I was where you're at a few years ago, I bought this set from Penn State,
figuring to upgrade later...

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/lcbt4.html

I'm still using them, a few hundred turnings later for everything from bowls to
roughing pen blanks..

For the price of one "signature" bowl gouge, you get 2 HSS gouges and 2
scrapers... YMWV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing
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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

On Sep 7, 6:05 pm, "skidog" skidog@snownews wrote:
I'm considering purchasing a bowl gouge from Woodcraft. I figure the gouge
should have a bar diameter of at least 1/2". I can only afford one bowl
gouge at this time and I'm stuck between a 3/8" or 1/2". I'm currently
working on a Delta Midi and not turning large pieces. Which of the
following manufacturers is the best value for the dollar: Pinnacle, Sorby,
Ellsworth Signature or Crown Pro PM? Thanks in advance....Joel



Hello Joel,

You've had a lot of advice and most of it is good. Many years ago, I
was at your point in time and I purchased a Robert Sorby spindle
gouge. And, after using it for a short time, I managed to afford a
Robert Sorby 3/8" bowl gouge. I've never regretted either purchase.
Currently, I have bowl gouges by Robert Sorby, Crown, Hamlet, and
Ashley Iles. I do not own any of the inexpensive brand tools, nor will
I waste money on them.

For your size lathe, a 3/8" bowl gouge will be most useful and as
someone mentioned will not load your lathe down quite as much.
Incidentally, I use the Ellsworth grind on virtually all of my bowl
gouges. It is a grind that will take you from the rim of the bowl all
of the way to the bottom in one pass without having to change tools,
otherwise you need two gouges or need to regrind your gouge to finish
the bottom of the bowl. The Ellsworth jig (available from several
sources and I believe Woodcraft sells it) is designed for a 5/8" bowl
gouge, but I use it to grind 1/2" and 3/8" tools as well.

Buy a good quality tool and you'll never regret it.

Fred Holder
http://www.fholder.com



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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

I very much agree on Penn State Benamin Best HSS tools. I got them to
experiment with different grinds so I wouldn't use up my Sorby's.
They have much appreciated longer handles, and longer piece of steel.
I use them more than my Sorby. They do stain more, but they hold
their edge just as well as the Sorby as best I can tell.
Select individual tools (not the sets) you need from this page:
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/la...ndividual.html

For example a 3/8" bowl gouge for $14
and maybe a 3/8" spindle gouge for $11
and a heavy 18" long 1" scraper for $15
and maybe even the 1/2" bowl gouge too for $15

I have been VERY satisfied with all these for nearly 2 years. I have
heard nothing but good news about these. They do break the rule that
you get what you pay for. IF you are on a limited budget this is the
best way to go. If you have the money they are still a great value
for extra tools to supplement your grind choices.
..





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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

Well, the feel of a tool is mostly a function of the handle system.
When you buy unhandled, then you can make the feel anything you want it
to be. I like my gouges to have long handles, e very heavy when I turn
and very light when I grind. So, I use the Oneway 17" handles (there
are many others on the market like this) and take the gouge out of the
handle for grinding -- it only takes a few seconds. With a little
ingenuity and a little time, you can easily make a removable handle.

Even with 10 percent off, I don't think that anything Woodcraft has is
as good a deal as doing what I've suggested. I'm guessing that a large
number of us who have been doing this for a while, don't buy what the
chain retail stores stock. There must be a reason.

Bill

skidog wrote:
Bill:
I'm stepping up in tool quality and like seeing and getting the feel of the
tool before I buy it. I've got a Woodcraft store in my area and next
weekend I can get 10% off my purchase.
"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message
et...

I mainly agree with Bill N -- 1/2" is the most useful size and buy
unhandled.

Why are you limiting your choices to those sold by Woodcraft? You can buy
the P & N HSS 1/2" bowl gouge unhandled for $39.00 + shipping --
www.packardwoodworks.com. This tool is a class act -- unlike the Asian
imports which may or may not be real tools.

Bill R

William Noble wrote:

It kinda depends on what you like to turn, but I think if I were you, I'd
go for the 1/2 inch tool and ignore the elsworth (you are paying for his
name and you can duplicate the grind) and the PM ($$ and doesn't get
quite as sharp) - if $$ are important, and it sounds like they are,
consider getting the tool without a handle and making your own - that
saves you a fair amount - make the ferrule on the handle out of a short
scrap of EMT or copper pipe.

then make grind the tip the way you think you want it.

My lathe is a bit bigger than yours, but I use mostly a 1/2 inch gouge
and a 5/8 glaser gouge and (believe it or not) a really old carbon steel
(not HSS!!!) crafstman (!!!) spindle gouge - you can get a shaper edge on
carbon steel than HSS but it doesn't last as long.


"skidog" skidog@snownews wrote in message
...


I'm considering purchasing a bowl gouge from Woodcraft. I figure the
gouge should have a bar diameter of at least 1/2". I can only afford
one bowl gouge at this time and I'm stuck between a 3/8" or 1/2". I'm
currently working on a Delta Midi and not turning large pieces. Which
of the following manufacturers is the best value for the dollar:
Pinnacle, Sorby, Ellsworth Signature or Crown Pro PM? Thanks in
advance....Joel









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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

you will want to keep the carbon steel tools for finishing work - they take
a MUCH better edge - now if they are the carbon mystery tools sold by the
low end vendors, then all bets are off - they may not even be carbon steel
"skidog" skidog@snownews wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the great replies,
I'm mainly turning small bowls using exotic hardwoods and find that my
carbon steel tools dull quickly. It's time to add quality tools to the
workshop that will stay sharp and get the job done quicker. When I asked
about tools that were a good value, I was referring to reliable, high
quality tools that weren't charging an extra $20 for name recognition. I
will most probably by a handled tool this time around but will be looking
at Packard Tools in my next upgrade. Thanks again...Joel
"skidog" skidog@snownews wrote in message
...
I'm considering purchasing a bowl gouge from Woodcraft. I figure the
gouge should have a bar diameter of at least 1/2". I can only afford one
bowl gouge at this time and I'm stuck between a 3/8" or 1/2". I'm
currently working on a Delta Midi and not turning large pieces. Which of
the following manufacturers is the best value for the dollar: Pinnacle,
Sorby, Ellsworth Signature or Crown Pro PM? Thanks in advance....Joel






--
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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

In article ,
mac davis wrote:

On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 22:05:48 -0400, "skidog" skidog@snownews wrote:

I'm considering purchasing a bowl gouge from Woodcraft. I figure the gouge
should have a bar diameter of at least 1/2". I can only afford one bowl
gouge at this time and I'm stuck between a 3/8" or 1/2". I'm currently
working on a Delta Midi and not turning large pieces. Which of the
following manufacturers is the best value for the dollar: Pinnacle, Sorby,
Ellsworth Signature or Crown Pro PM? Thanks in advance....Joel

Contrary to the rest of the group, I'd suggest going a bit less quality and
more
bang for the buck...

When I was where you're at a few years ago, I bought this set from Penn
State,
figuring to upgrade later...

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/lcbt4.html

I'm still using them, a few hundred turnings later for everything from bowls
to
roughing pen blanks..

For the price of one "signature" bowl gouge, you get 2 HSS gouges and 2
scrapers... YMWV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing


I'm with Mac, for starting out, (and learning to grind) cheap is good.
Later, real money is required

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RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?


Joel asked whether to buy a 3/8" or 1/2" bowl gouge and which is the
best value for the dollar, Pinnacle. Sorby, Ellsworth Signature or Crown
Pro PM. Clearly there are other options to be considered re tools for
turning small bowls such as 7/16" gouges, inserted bits, forged flutes,
and several smaller maker's tools new to the market.


Some of us wonder if cost is an object, then might not the "best value
for the dollar" depend as much on the stage of the turner's expertise
and his tool stable as on how much better a premium tool is and where
and by whom it was made.


The argument re getting only the '''best" tools one at a time when they
can be afforded vs buying or making several not quite as 'good', but
affordable tools to begin with will never be settled. That being so, it
serves no purpose to denigrate another turner's chosen turning tools. I
don't think anyone prefers the lesser tools over the premiums if cost is
truly no object, but in truth, cost often is.


With the wide availability of sharpening instructions and devices that
make good sharpening quick and easy for everyone, why is so much
emphasis put on the need to pay a premium for a tool that's said to hold
it's edge a while longer? Are these premium tools so much better in
other ways that can justify their high prices?


Why term the Asian imports "junk", even if the hss is not the best. My
hss Harbor Freight's don't seem to be junk, at least not when rehandled,
reground and polished (improvements a woodturner shouldn't need to pay
for) .....and the country of origin rubbed off.

Like using scapers and turning robust bowl walls, my buying an
affordable _set of turning tools isn't a 'no-no'. It's just a myth from
the past, .....but then YMMV


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings





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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

I just wanted to tag on to what Steve and Arch have said about sharpening.
There are a lot of good grinding jigs out there and I would say to get or
make one. Whatever gouge you get, unless you are used to sharpening bowl
gouges a jig will save your temper if not your sanity (can wood turners be
said to be sane anyway? We throw wood in our faces, beat it off with sharp
tools and call it fun....) I use one I made
http://aroundthewoods.com/sharpening01.html but the commercial ones seem
mostly to be good value.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS
http://aroundthewoods.com
http://roundopinions.blogspot.com

"Steve Russell" wrote in message
.. .
Hello Joel,

I'm a professional bowl turner and I have numerous bowl gouges made by
Henry
Taylor, Kelton, Crown, Sorby, Asley Isles, Pinnacle, Hamlet, Craft
Supplies
"Artisan" brand (by Henry Taylor), Oneway, Serious, P&N and Glaser. I also
have cryogenically treated versions of most of these tools as well.

I turn on a large Oneway 2436, but I also have a Jet mini lathe that is
similar to your Delta Midi. I've also demonstrated extensively across the
country at The Woodworking Shows on various large and small lathes,
including a Jet mini. I've even turned bowls on the Jet mini, with 1/2"
and
3/8" bowl gouges. I agree with Fred Holder on the size recommendation. A
1/2" bowl gouge will stall your Delta Midi motor too often, get the 3/8"
bowl gouge and you will be a lot happier.

A 3/8" gouge will be able to do just about anything on a bowl you want to
on
your Delta and it will leave you a few bucks to do something else with...
:-) As for the brand, I have most everything out there and they all work.
Differences in true M2HSS bowl gouges from one to another are minimal, for
example, flute design "V", or "U", the amount of finishing to the shaft
and
the flute, handle (if any) design and construction, Rockwell hardness
rating
(most are about the same), adjunctive processes like cryogenic treatments
and the overall quality of the grinding of the flute to name a few.

If you boil it all down, any of the brands you mention will be a good bowl
gouge for you. If you're starting out and are tight on funds, then stick
with a 3/8" deep fluted bowl gouge (I prefer the "V" style of flute,
others
like the "U", both are good) from any of the brands you mention. Let you
decision be guided by the lowest price you can get (sale?) including your
10% discount and start making some shavings. I also agree with Fred's
recommendation about getting quality tools... In the end, you save money
by
buying good quality tools from the get-go.

If you're unsure of how to sharpen your tools, join a woodturning club (or
if you're already in one, ask a few of the more experienced blokes to give
you a wee bit of a helping hand), or try to find another woodturner in
your
area that can help you get started on the right foot. If you're already an
experienced sharpener, you're good to go...

In the end, you will never regret buying good quality tools, but you may
regret buying lesser quality tools. This is not to say that you can't get
buy for a while using an inexpensive gouge like some have mentioned. I
started out 12 years ago with a $39.00, 6" dry grinder and I used it for
five years in my production studio. I now have two 8" dry grinders that
cost
$850.00 each and another that was about $250.00, not to mention three
Tormek
wet grinders.

You'll find that there are 100 answers to every question in woodturning,
so
you have to be the ultimate judge of what is best for your personal
beliefs
and your pocketbook. Remember also, that your bowl gouge will likely last
you many years as a hobby turner, so the initial cost averaged over many
years will be minimal. My first bowl gouge lasted about 7 years before it
was toast, after having worked on several thousand bowls. Good luck to you
and best wishes in all of your woodturning endeavours!

--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio, The Woodlands, Texas
Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

Website: http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com
Free Monthly Woodturning Newsletter * Your email is kept confidential
Sign up at: http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/lathe-talk.html


On 9/7/07 9:05 PM, in article
, "skidog"
skidog@snownews wrote:

I'm considering purchasing a bowl gouge from Woodcraft. I figure the
gouge
should have a bar diameter of at least 1/2". I can only afford one bowl
gouge
at this time and I'm stuck between a 3/8" or 1/2". I'm currently working
on a
Delta Midi and not turning large pieces. Which of the following
manufacturers
is the best value for the dollar: Pinnacle, Sorby, Ellsworth Signature
or
Crown Pro PM? Thanks in advance....Joel





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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

I have purchased premade wood handles from CraftSuppliesUSA. They sell P&N
unhandled tools too. All my McNaughton coring tools have their own wood
handle. All you have to do is drill holes in the end. They are
prefinished. I think the biggest are around $7. Sure you can make your
own, but if time savings is the issue, you can be ahead to buy.

Derek

"skidog" skidog@snownews wrote in message
...
I will most probably by a handled tool this time around but will be looking
at Packard Tools in my next upgrade. Thanks again...Joel
"skidog" skidog@snownews wrote in message
...
I'm considering purchasing a bowl gouge from Woodcraft. I figure the
gouge should have a bar diameter of at least 1/2". I can only afford one
bowl gouge at this time and I'm stuck between a 3/8" or 1/2". I'm
currently working on a Delta Midi and not turning large pieces. Which of
the following manufacturers is the best value for the dollar: Pinnacle,
Sorby, Ellsworth Signature or Crown Pro PM? Thanks in advance....Joel





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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 07:25:05 -0700, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:


I'm with Mac, for starting out, (and learning to grind) cheap is good.
Later, real money is required


Ralph.. To clarify that a bit, IMHO cheap is bad, but inexpensive is ok..

I bought a $20 set of Harbor Fright chisels to practice sharpening, and they
were CHEAP...
Ok, steel, but way too thin to use safely...

The PSI chisels are much thicker and seem to hold an edge as well as my more
expensive chisels... and they're used daily... YMWV


mac

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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 11:15:27 -0400, (Arch) wrote:

Some good points as usual, Arch..

I relate it to flat work... There are much better/expensive saws, planers, etc.
that someone with more skill than I would appreciate... At my stage.skill level,
the fact that my ts and planer were inexpensive enough for me to buy means that
I HAVE them...
Maybe a good example would be stereo equipment... Folks spend a LOT of money on
speakers and stuff to reproduce sounds that I can't hear, or miss in my music..

Related question: How much better would/wood my bowls be if I used a $150 bowl
gouge?


Joel asked whether to buy a 3/8" or 1/2" bowl gouge and which is the
best value for the dollar, Pinnacle. Sorby, Ellsworth Signature or Crown
Pro PM. Clearly there are other options to be considered re tools for
turning small bowls such as 7/16" gouges, inserted bits, forged flutes,
and several smaller maker's tools new to the market.


Some of us wonder if cost is an object, then might not the "best value
for the dollar" depend as much on the stage of the turner's expertise
and his tool stable as on how much better a premium tool is and where
and by whom it was made.


The argument re getting only the '''best" tools one at a time when they
can be afforded vs buying or making several not quite as 'good', but
affordable tools to begin with will never be settled. That being so, it
serves no purpose to denigrate another turner's chosen turning tools. I
don't think anyone prefers the lesser tools over the premiums if cost is
truly no object, but in truth, cost often is.


With the wide availability of sharpening instructions and devices that
make good sharpening quick and easy for everyone, why is so much
emphasis put on the need to pay a premium for a tool that's said to hold
it's edge a while longer? Are these premium tools so much better in
other ways that can justify their high prices?


Why term the Asian imports "junk", even if the hss is not the best. My
hss Harbor Freight's don't seem to be junk, at least not when rehandled,
reground and polished (improvements a woodturner shouldn't need to pay
for) .....and the country of origin rubbed off.

Like using scapers and turning robust bowl walls, my buying an
affordable _set of turning tools isn't a 'no-no'. It's just a myth from
the past, .....but then YMMV


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings




mac

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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 07:32:40 -0700, mac davis wrote:

I bought a $20 set of Harbor Fright chisels to practice sharpening, and they
were CHEAP...
Ok, steel, but way too thin to use safely...


Either that wasn't the HSS set, or they've changed it. I bought one
several years ago and it was a great learners set. And it was cheap
enough that I didn't mind wasting a lot of metal to learn how to sharpen.

While I have better quality tools now, I haven't thrown away the HF
HSS set. And if it hasn't changed I'd still recommend it as a starter set.



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In article ,
Larry Blanchard wrote:

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 07:32:40 -0700, mac davis wrote:

I bought a $20 set of Harbor Fright chisels to practice sharpening, and they
were CHEAP...
Ok, steel, but way too thin to use safely...


Either that wasn't the HSS set, or they've changed it. I bought one
several years ago and it was a great learners set. And it was cheap
enough that I didn't mind wasting a lot of metal to learn how to sharpen.

While I have better quality tools now, I haven't thrown away the HF
HSS set. And if it hasn't changed I'd still recommend it as a starter set.


I've "turned" the HF "reds" into scrapers, but I enjoyed messing with
them to learn more about various grinds

--
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This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:38:17 -0700, Larry Blanchard wrote:

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 07:32:40 -0700, mac davis wrote:

I bought a $20 set of Harbor Fright chisels to practice sharpening, and they
were CHEAP...
Ok, steel, but way too thin to use safely...


Either that wasn't the HSS set, or they've changed it. I bought one
several years ago and it was a great learners set. And it was cheap
enough that I didn't mind wasting a lot of metal to learn how to sharpen.

While I have better quality tools now, I haven't thrown away the HF
HSS set. And if it hasn't changed I'd still recommend it as a starter set.


Larry... I should have mentioned that HF has 2 sets...

The one that goes on sale for $10 or $12, which I mentioned, and one that is
usually $60 and is on sale for about $30 a couple of times a year...
The more expensive set is the one they say "not allowed to say who makes it" and
AFAIKT is the same set as the PSI Benjamin's best chisels..

I have them on the back side of my "a-frame" chisel rack for kids and beginners
to use....
Not because they're too cheap for my use but to reserve the chisels that I use
daily for me.. *g*


mac

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In article ,
mac davis wrote:

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:38:17 -0700, Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 07:32:40 -0700, mac davis wrote:

I bought a $20 set of Harbor Fright chisels to practice sharpening, and
they
were CHEAP...
Ok, steel, but way too thin to use safely...


Either that wasn't the HSS set, or they've changed it. I bought one
several years ago and it was a great learners set. And it was cheap
enough that I didn't mind wasting a lot of metal to learn how to sharpen.

While I have better quality tools now, I haven't thrown away the HF
HSS set. And if it hasn't changed I'd still recommend it as a starter set.


Larry... I should have mentioned that HF has 2 sets...

The one that goes on sale for $10 or $12, which I mentioned, and one that is
usually $60 and is on sale for about $30 a couple of times a year...
The more expensive set is the one they say "not allowed to say who makes it"
and
AFAIKT is the same set as the PSI Benjamin's best chisels..

I have carefully examined both my BB and the HF Red's and concluded the
same thing.

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

mac davis wrote:
...
Related question: How much better would/wood my bowls be if I used a $150 bowl
gouge?


As with any woodworking tool, better tools are easier to work with and will
allow you to do better work. You will be 'fighting' with a poor tool to get
'so-so' work.

A good named brand $70-$100 bowl gouge made of HSS will have a good profile,
be easy to sharpen, and hold the edge lots longer than a cheep tool-steel one.
Keeping a sharp edge will allow you to work longer and make lots better cuts
than a dull tool. And will last longer since you won't be grinding it away as
often. Better cuts mean smoother finishes.

Going to the extreme $150 gouge is way overkill for a beginner. But it may
keep it's sharp edge way longer.

In short, don't go Cheep or it will actually cost more in the long run.



--
Mike Vore
http://www.OhMyWoodness.com
http://www.OhMyWoodness.com/blog (new - update your Bookmarks)
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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

may I humbly disagree, please..... look at the amazing work done in the
early 1800s by folks like Francois Barot - this was before any form of tool
steel was invented. Look at the work from the elizebethan period - carbon
steel was at best a guessing game. You don't need super duper tools to do
good art (you do need super duper tools to do high precision work with
interchangable parts, but that's a different topic). A bad tool will not
prevent a skilled artist from making his art, and the best tool in the world
won't help an unskilled non-artist create art.

so, you bowls will not be any better if you use the world's best gouge than
if you use a sharp rock lashed to a stick.

However, you may find it more enjoyable to use a nice fancy tool than the
sharp rock lashed to a stick...... for most of us, this is a hobby after
all, not a profession. Invest accordingly.


"mike vore" wrote in message
news:wq2Gi.2658$282.138@trnddc01...
mac davis wrote:
...
Related question: How much better would/wood my bowls be if I used a $150
bowl
gouge?


As with any woodworking tool, better tools are easier to work with and
will
allow you to do better work. You will be 'fighting' with a poor tool to
get
'so-so' work.

A good named brand $70-$100 bowl gouge made of HSS will have a good
profile,
be easy to sharpen, and hold the edge lots longer than a cheep tool-steel
one.
Keeping a sharp edge will allow you to work longer and make lots better
cuts
than a dull tool. And will last longer since you won't be grinding it away
as
often. Better cuts mean smoother finishes.

Going to the extreme $150 gouge is way overkill for a beginner. But it may
keep it's sharp edge way longer.

In short, don't go Cheep or it will actually cost more in the long run.



--
Mike Vore
http://www.OhMyWoodness.com
http://www.OhMyWoodness.com/blog (new - update your Bookmarks)




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

"invest accordingly" says Bill Noble. I like that. Let us face it folks, we
are spending a lot of money to make $20.00 pens that work as well as the .20
ones at the office supply, $60.00 bowls that hold as much salad as the $3.00
ones from WalMart, and so on. Really we spend to produce our "art," pursue
our hobby or feed our addictions. Personally I feel that the $20.00+ pen and
the $60.00+ bowl are worth the cash because of the beauty of the wood and
the hand work in them but taste is taste. Not every one buys my stuff :-)
Figure what you can afford for your hobby or business of turning and go for
it. Some of the cost is comfort, i.e. what you are comfortable spending
given your budget and comfort level. I am one of the cheap types that
questions brand name over quality. If I can get a reasonable tool that needs
a few minutes polishing to bring it up to the standards of a more wxpensive
tool, hand me the polishing compund. I have a nice roughing gouge that came
to me with a Record tool set about eight years ago. When I need a new one in
a couple of years I can get a similar gouge for $60.00 or a set for $100.
Since I will make my own handle anyway, give me the set and for $40.00 I
have some more gouges and skews to play with. For me this works but for
someone else the $60.00 or higher price works better. The nice thing is, I
think we are both right. Plus we get the fun of trying to convince one
another that "only I am right." (fun if both are laughing)
--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS
http://aroundthewoods.com
http://roundopinions.blogspot.com

"William Noble" wrote in message
.. .
may I humbly disagree, please..... look at the amazing work done in the
early 1800s by folks like Francois Barot - this was before any form of
tool steel was invented. Look at the work from the elizebethan period -
carbon steel was at best a guessing game. You don't need super duper
tools to do good art (you do need super duper tools to do high precision
work with interchangable parts, but that's a different topic). A bad tool
will not prevent a skilled artist from making his art, and the best tool
in the world won't help an unskilled non-artist create art.

so, you bowls will not be any better if you use the world's best gouge
than if you use a sharp rock lashed to a stick.

However, you may find it more enjoyable to use a nice fancy tool than the
sharp rock lashed to a stick...... for most of us, this is a hobby after
all, not a profession. Invest accordingly.


"mike vore" wrote in message
news:wq2Gi.2658$282.138@trnddc01...
mac davis wrote:
...
Related question: How much better would/wood my bowls be if I used a
$150 bowl
gouge?


As with any woodworking tool, better tools are easier to work with and
will
allow you to do better work. You will be 'fighting' with a poor tool to
get
'so-so' work.

A good named brand $70-$100 bowl gouge made of HSS will have a good
profile,
be easy to sharpen, and hold the edge lots longer than a cheep tool-steel
one.
Keeping a sharp edge will allow you to work longer and make lots better
cuts
than a dull tool. And will last longer since you won't be grinding it
away as
often. Better cuts mean smoother finishes.

Going to the extreme $150 gouge is way overkill for a beginner. But it
may
keep it's sharp edge way longer.

In short, don't go Cheep or it will actually cost more in the long run.



--
Mike Vore
http://www.OhMyWoodness.com
http://www.OhMyWoodness.com/blog (new - update your Bookmarks)




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 03:48:44 GMT, mike vore wrote:

mac davis wrote:
...
Related question: How much better would/wood my bowls be if I used a $150 bowl
gouge?


As with any woodworking tool, better tools are easier to work with and will
allow you to do better work. You will be 'fighting' with a poor tool to get
'so-so' work.

A good named brand $70-$100 bowl gouge made of HSS will have a good profile,
be easy to sharpen, and hold the edge lots longer than a cheep tool-steel one.
Keeping a sharp edge will allow you to work longer and make lots better cuts
than a dull tool. And will last longer since you won't be grinding it away as
often. Better cuts mean smoother finishes.

Going to the extreme $150 gouge is way overkill for a beginner. But it may
keep it's sharp edge way longer.

In short, don't go Cheep or it will actually cost more in the long run.


Agreed, Mike... but what I was trying to compare (I think) was a mid-price tool
against a "signature" tool..



mac

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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy? (warning; A long OT Mythical Tale O'Woe)


Once It seemed that our best silverware made the food taste better. That
is until I realized that we only got out, polished and used the sterling
with our initials engraved on it when relatives and friends came for
holidays. I believed that Lori's best table settings made those happy
dinners taste extra good when she changed the menu from beer and
hamburgers to wine and roast turkey or the prime ribs of yesteryear (A
few old timers might remember those halcyon days before cholesterol and
out of reach prices when we could enjoy an occasional prime rib).


The turkey sandwiches and leftovers tasted even better for supper on the
mismatched thrift store plates and stainless ware at the kitchen table
...and we didn't need to get the tarnish off and carefully put them
away. If we broke a cup or bent a spoon in the dishwasher so what? It
was good for the grins.


Once it seemed that my premium, powdered and frozen steel bowl gouge
with the famous turner's name engraved on it made my wood turning go
better. That is until I realized that I only got out, sharpened, honed
and polished my deep fluted beauty on those special turning sessions
when I took great pains to turn a store bought exotic or a fine domestic
burl into my very best work.


My turning went even better the next day when I happily slapdashed
several bottle stoppers and miniature lighthouses from the exotic's
leavings and road kill timber using my comfortable ole Sears carbon
steel skew with sweat, grime and dried glue on the handle, but a sharp
clean and proper edge straight from the grinder.


OK, so this doesn't answer Joel's question (remember him?). Come on
now, give me a break. I realize I've made a long thread seem intolerably
longer, but there's less than 300 posts this morning. Can't RCW afford
the bandwidth?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings



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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy? (warning; A long OT Mythical Tale O'Woe)

LOL thanks Arch I really needed, "OK, so this doesn't answer Joel's question
(remember him?)". This has been a long but very informative thread. There
have been many opinions and ideas raised, all of which hold merit depending
on the turners skill and financial capabilities.
My plan is to buy a quality tool, a couple mid level HSS tools and fabricate
a couple on my own. I'm in the process of researching a grinding gig to
adapt to my current grinder. It's time to spend some money, buy some new
tools, work a bit more on my sharpening skills and above all get back to
enjoying turning. I can't get into much trouble when I've got this
newsgroup to fall back on with my questions. Thanks to everyone who
responded, your input was greatly appreciated....Joel
"Arch" wrote in message
...

Once It seemed that our best silverware made the food taste better. That
is until I realized that we only got out, polished and used the sterling
with our initials engraved on it when relatives and friends came for
holidays. I believed that Lori's best table settings made those happy
dinners taste extra good when she changed the menu from beer and
hamburgers to wine and roast turkey or the prime ribs of yesteryear (A
few old timers might remember those halcyon days before cholesterol and
out of reach prices when we could enjoy an occasional prime rib).


The turkey sandwiches and leftovers tasted even better for supper on the
mismatched thrift store plates and stainless ware at the kitchen table
..and we didn't need to get the tarnish off and carefully put them
away. If we broke a cup or bent a spoon in the dishwasher so what? It
was good for the grins.


Once it seemed that my premium, powdered and frozen steel bowl gouge
with the famous turner's name engraved on it made my wood turning go
better. That is until I realized that I only got out, sharpened, honed
and polished my deep fluted beauty on those special turning sessions
when I took great pains to turn a store bought exotic or a fine domestic
burl into my very best work.


My turning went even better the next day when I happily slapdashed
several bottle stoppers and miniature lighthouses from the exotic's
leavings and road kill timber using my comfortable ole Sears carbon
steel skew with sweat, grime and dried glue on the handle, but a sharp
clean and proper edge straight from the grinder.


OK, so this doesn't answer Joel's question (remember him?). Come on
now, give me a break. I realize I've made a long thread seem intolerably
longer, but there's less than 300 posts this morning. Can't RCW afford
the bandwidth?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings





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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy? (warning; A long OT Mythical Tale O' Woe)

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:18:48 -0400, (Arch) wrote:


I did a lot of bowling in a past life, and as soon as you ordered a new ball,
the old one suddenly remembered how to throw strikes.. lol


Once It seemed that our best silverware made the food taste better. That
is until I realized that we only got out, polished and used the sterling
with our initials engraved on it when relatives and friends came for
holidays. I believed that Lori's best table settings made those happy
dinners taste extra good when she changed the menu from beer and
hamburgers to wine and roast turkey or the prime ribs of yesteryear (A
few old timers might remember those halcyon days before cholesterol and
out of reach prices when we could enjoy an occasional prime rib).


The turkey sandwiches and leftovers tasted even better for supper on the
mismatched thrift store plates and stainless ware at the kitchen table
..and we didn't need to get the tarnish off and carefully put them
away. If we broke a cup or bent a spoon in the dishwasher so what? It
was good for the grins.


Once it seemed that my premium, powdered and frozen steel bowl gouge
with the famous turner's name engraved on it made my wood turning go
better. That is until I realized that I only got out, sharpened, honed
and polished my deep fluted beauty on those special turning sessions
when I took great pains to turn a store bought exotic or a fine domestic
burl into my very best work.


My turning went even better the next day when I happily slapdashed
several bottle stoppers and miniature lighthouses from the exotic's
leavings and road kill timber using my comfortable ole Sears carbon
steel skew with sweat, grime and dried glue on the handle, but a sharp
clean and proper edge straight from the grinder.


OK, so this doesn't answer Joel's question (remember him?). Come on
now, give me a break. I realize I've made a long thread seem intolerably
longer, but there's less than 300 posts this morning. Can't RCW afford
the bandwidth?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings




mac

Please remove splinters before emailing


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Default Which Bowl Gouge To Buy?

Joel,

If you want to purchase one bowl gouge that will probably last a lifetime,
get a Kryo M2 one-half inch gouge (one-half inch is the size of the flute).
The shank or shaft diameter will be 5/8". I think I have tried most of the
exotic steel formulations and have discovered that they do a good job of
holding a marginal edge off a 100 grit wheel. Cryogenically treated M2,
from my experience, holds the best edge for the longest period of time.
However having said that, you will certainly get other opinions from this
group. But I'm sure you won't be disappointed with anything other than the
price of this great tool. It does run approximately $100, and in my opinion
worth every cent. The brand I purchased is Henry Taylor and I bought it
from Craft Supplies in Provo, Utah. To get the most out of this tool or any
other, you should have a good sharpening system and get some basic
instruction on how to grind the tool. One Way makes a great system and
Norton makes great wheels for a grinder.


"skidog" skidog@snownews wrote in message
...
I'm considering purchasing a bowl gouge from Woodcraft. I figure the
gouge should have a bar diameter of at least 1/2". I can only afford one
bowl gouge at this time and I'm stuck between a 3/8" or 1/2". I'm
currently working on a Delta Midi and not turning large pieces. Which of
the following manufacturers is the best value for the dollar: Pinnacle,
Sorby, Ellsworth Signature or Crown Pro PM? Thanks in advance....Joel



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