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Metal Spinning Tools - What and How To Make?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 19th 07, 05:39 PM posted to rec.crafts.woodturning,rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 3,389
Default Metal Spinning Tools - What and How To Make?

Slowly...ever so slowly...I am getting a metal spinning setup
together.

One of the areas that I need to accumulate more is for the metal
spinning tools that one uses with the lathe.

Any suggestions, links and PICTURES of how to make metal spinning
tools?

Thanks

TMT

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  #2  
Old March 19th 07, 08:51 PM posted to rec.crafts.woodturning,rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 857
Default Metal Spinning Tools - What and How To Make?

TMT haven't we been through this before?. Anyway best resource I know of
is http://metalspinningworkshop.com/board/board1/index.php . I think
that the form of the tool you make comes with experience. If you ask on
the board and explain or show what you want to make often suggestions
are made as to the tool form you might require for various parts of the
process.

Also Terry who runs the BB does a couple of quite good DVDs on spinning
and has more on the way.

Hope that helps.

Too_Many_Tools wrote:

Slowly...ever so slowly...I am getting a metal spinning setup
together.

One of the areas that I need to accumulate more is for the metal
spinning tools that one uses with the lathe.

Any suggestions, links and PICTURES of how to make metal spinning
tools?

Thanks

TMT


  #3  
Old March 19th 07, 10:08 PM posted to rec.crafts.woodturning,rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 135
Default Metal Spinning Tools - What and How To Make?

In our area we have a metal spinner who does it for a living. He works
exclusively with pewter. The only tools he uses for manipulating the
metal are two sticks, sharpened to sort of a dull point, and about the
diameter of broom sticks. I'd guess that they are about 3' long.

He's fast and good.

Bill

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Slowly...ever so slowly...I am getting a metal spinning setup
together.

One of the areas that I need to accumulate more is for the metal
spinning tools that one uses with the lathe.

Any suggestions, links and PICTURES of how to make metal spinning
tools?

Thanks

TMT

  #4  
Old March 19th 07, 11:36 PM posted to rec.crafts.woodturning,rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,389
Default Metal Spinning Tools - What and How To Make?

On Mar 19, 2:51 pm, David Billington
wrote:
TMT haven't we been through this before?. Anyway best resource I know of
ishttp://metalspinningworkshop.com/board/board1/index.php. I think
that the form of the tool you make comes with experience. If you ask on
the board and explain or show what you want to make often suggestions
are made as to the tool form you might require for various parts of the
process.

Also Terry who runs the BB does a couple of quite good DVDs on spinning
and has more on the way.

Hope that helps.



Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Slowly...ever so slowly...I am getting a metal spinning setup
together.


One of the areas that I need to accumulate more is for the metal
spinning tools that one uses with the lathe.


Any suggestions, links and PICTURES of how to make metal spinning
tools?


Thanks


TMT- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Yes I did ask about it in an earlier post but the responses were
limited.

Try Googling for the information I am asking about....you will find
very little on line.

Therefore the second request.

Thanks for the link.

TMT

  #5  
Old March 20th 07, 01:45 AM posted to rec.crafts.woodturning,rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 297
Default Metal Spinning Tools - What and How To Make?

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Any suggestions, links and PICTURES of how to make metal spinning
tools?

....
Try Googling for the information I am asking about....you will find
very little on line.


Google, Image Search, "Metal Spinning" - 3000+ results, and many of
those on the first page are useful/relevant for what the tools look
like. James Riser's site gets into more blacksmithing detail. Yes, you
will have to look past the sites that want to spin metal for you; deal
with it.

http://iweb.tntech.edu/cventura/metalspinning.htm

http://www.jamesriser.com/Machinery/...olForging.html

http://www.metalwebnews.com/poorman/...machinist.html
(plan MST-309, $8)

http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/spinning/

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
  #6  
Old March 20th 07, 02:06 AM posted to rec.crafts.woodturning,rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Metal Spinning Tools - What and How To Make?

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Mar 19, 2:51 pm, David Billington
wrote:
TMT haven't we been through this before?. Anyway best resource I know of
ishttp://metalspinningworkshop.com/board/board1/index.php. I think
that the form of the tool you make comes with experience. If you ask on
the board and explain or show what you want to make often suggestions
are made as to the tool form you might require for various parts of the
process.

Also Terry who runs the BB does a couple of quite good DVDs on spinning
and has more on the way.

Hope that helps.



Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Slowly...ever so slowly...I am getting a metal spinning setup
together.
One of the areas that I need to accumulate more is for the metal
spinning tools that one uses with the lathe.
Any suggestions, links and PICTURES of how to make metal spinning
tools?
Thanks
TMT- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Yes I did ask about it in an earlier post but the responses were
limited.

Try Googling for the information I am asking about....you will find
very little on line.

Therefore the second request.

Thanks for the link.

TMT


Thats because metal spinning isn't all that hard to do. The main tools
are the lathe and understanding how the metal moves while your working
it. What you use to move the metal depends a LOT on how thick the metal
is your working with. Thinner sheet stock can be worked with a simple
stick of hard maple with a round nose on the working end. Thicker may
need something like a roller tool. I use a roller made out of a piece of
bar stock with a milled slot for a standard roller bearing for thicker
metals.

--
Steve W.
  #7  
Old March 25th 07, 12:20 AM posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Posts: 835
Default Metal Spinning Tools - What and How To Make?

On 19 Mar 2007 10:39:51 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

Slowly...ever so slowly...I am getting a metal spinning setup
together.

One of the areas that I need to accumulate more is for the metal
spinning tools that one uses with the lathe.

Any suggestions, links and PICTURES of how to make metal spinning
tools?


Now *there* is a dangerous and slippery slope!

That's what got me started on blacksmithing as well, as if I didn't
already have enough on my plate.

What follows is pretty long, but hopefully it answers some questions
you're bound to run into, and will help you save some time and effort.

Here's what I found when I made mine:

I started with 3" bars of 1/2" round 1018 cold-rolled steel from the
hardware store and a propane hand torch. This will get the metal hot
enough to bang on, and I did manage to make a duck-bill tool and a
pointed end on one bar by hammering on it on the back of my vise.
After all that, I figured I needed something better to heat the metal
with, so I stacked up firebricks to make a chamber that was 1.5"
square and about 6" deep and drilled a hole in one of the bricks to
fit the nozzle of my hand torch into it. That worked a little better,
but it will still only get to a red heat- not what you really need,
but it will let you work mild steel.

Of course, as this point, I was still (and probably still am) fairly
ignorant about what I was doing, so I hit the blacksmithing group and
got some pointers.

So, I made a forge, to get the metal hot enough. It was cheap, but a
lot of work. You might be able to get away with an acetaline torch if
you have one.

Basically, you'll need a length of pipe and/or steel bucket (or if you
work with metal as a trade, you can roll sheet stock and weld the
seam, which is what I did), about 2' of 2"od pipe nipples, a pipe
elbow, some propane fittings, a couple of pipe nipples to weld into
the end of your burner to prevent blowback, some castable refractory
material or ceramic wool insulation (Kaowool) and a small air blower.
A grinder, welder, some way to cut steel (a hacksaw will work if
you're dedicated) and a tap or two are also required. The insulation
is the expensive part, but I found a place that sold it wholesale, and
when I tried to buy 8 sq ft of it, the owner just gave me a partial
roll they had sitting in the corner of the warehouse for nothing
because it wasn't worth filling out the paperwork to sell it to me-
sometimes you get lucky!

If you're interested in that, I can e-mail you the plans I used
off-list.

After you've got a forge, you need something to hammer on. I found
that not only are anvils kind of hard to come by, but they cost a lot
of $$$. I bought a 60# one that is really old for $90. Others seem
to like using sections of old railroad rail as anvils, and it would
appear to be a good choice if you can track any down. Even though
many vises have an "anvil" area on them, using those is a good way to
wreck a vise- the surface is not hardened, and it is easier to break a
vise with a hammer than you might think (DAMHIKT!)

Now you're more or less ready to roll. But there is still a little
more to do- while researching the subject, I found that the steel at
the hardware store is not up to the task for the long haul (though
those first tools I made seem to work okay anyway) You'll need to
find some high-carbon steel- I managed to track down 1095 at a small
place about 30 miles from me, but it was actually very inexpensive.
1095 is also called spring steel or W-1 (water-hardening tool steel).
If you can't find it new, 1095 is also used to make brake drums and
leafsprings, from what I gather, so a trip to the junkyard could serve
you well- I've also heard that many railroad spikes have a high enough
carbon content to work, though it sounds like that may be a bit of a
crapshoot. An old file can work as well, but make sure it is hot
enough before hammering it, or it will crack.

Once you've got your metal, forge, and anvil, you can make all sorts
of things- try not to get distracted like I did and make a bunch of
stuff that has nothing to do with what you started all this for!

Basically, once you've this stuff set up, or a viable alternative, you
need to heat the steel to an bright orange or yellow heat, and then
beat it with a hammer to the shape you need- it's not rocket science,
but it does take practice and a handful of know-how.

When you're happy with the shape, let it cool slowly in the air- this
is called normalizing. It relieves the stresses in the metal so that
it does not warp or crack in the quench. I've made a couple of knives
and chisels now, and like to do this two or three times after
hammering them to shape. The grains in the steel are growing and
shrinking as you do this, and realigning themselves.

After normalizing, grind the working surface smooth- I am by no means
an accomplished metal spinner (in fact, I haven't even messed with it
in a while- like I said, it's easy to get distracted!) but I do know
that they need to be dead smooth, and that's easier to accomplish
before the metal is hard. Get it as close to finished as you can.

Now, it's time to harden. Put the metal back in the forge, and heat
it until it becomes non-magnetic, which is a simple as it sounds- pull
it out every so often and put a magnet against it, when it stops
sticking to the metal, you're ready to quench. If you're using 1095,
it seems to quench well in brine- fill up a bucket with warm water,
and dissolve salt into it until it will float an egg, and you're ready
to go. When you get the steel to the point where it is non-magnetic
(and not way past it, or the quench will not be as useful,) plunge
the area you want hardened into the brine.

Now it it super-hard, but brittle. There are three ways I have seen
to temper the metal. You'll need to polish it a little so that you
can see the steel change color in all three cases. The first method
seems a little fishy to me, but I have been assured that it works-
just take a torch and heat the steel until it reaches a "dull straw"
color, and let it air cool.

The second is to place the steel in an oven at 425 degrees for 1/2
hour. Check it periodically to make sure it is at that "dull straw"
color. This is the first method I tried, and to be perfectly honest,
it didn't work out for me- but it is suggested by a lot of
bladesmiths, so I imagine I just messed it up.

The last one is the one I like, and have used to temper knives and
chisels with good results. When you quench the steel, only dip it in
as far as you absolutely must. In the case of a knife, that's just
the cutting edge- in the case of a spinning tool, that's just the
first inch or less. Then remove it and let it air cool. The residual
heat from the unquenched steel will temper the hardened area. I've
gotten suprisingly good results from this technique, and it's the
easiest one as well.

After that, you just need to grind and polish the surface until you're
happy with the finish. Be careful not to be too agressive, or you can
wreck the heat treatment- but if you do, just reheat, quench, and
temper again.

It's not as tough as it sounds- the forge took about a week to build,
mainly spent tracking down parts, and I put about $200 into the whole
thing all together, not counting propane or metal. It's fun to do, as
well- if you're anything like me, you may find that having a little
blacksmithing setup opens up a whole lot of possibilities that will
augment your woodworking by allowing you to make twisted drawer
handles and number of other metal parts that you would otherwise have
to spend a small fortune on, as well as allowing you to make your own
turning tools whenever you want, without paying a ton of money for
them.

If you have any specific questions, you can e-mail me off-list at
prometheusatcharter.net

Good luck!

  #8  
Old March 25th 07, 12:23 AM posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Posts: 835
Default Metal Spinning Tools - What and How To Make?

On 19 Mar 2007 10:39:51 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

Slowly...ever so slowly...I am getting a metal spinning setup
together.

One of the areas that I need to accumulate more is for the metal
spinning tools that one uses with the lathe.

Any suggestions, links and PICTURES of how to make metal spinning
tools?


After all that in my previous post, I forgot to mention your big
question- I do have a pdf file that has about 50 metal spinning tool
profiles in there, as well as some pointers on how to spin.
Unfortunately, I don't recall where I found it, but I could e-mail it
to you.
 




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