I occasionally butt in on a thread at another fine forum that includes
pics and words. I do not post pics, but I feel comfortable there because
of so many rcw alumni who know I mean well so they suffer my posts
gladly like old friends do. Not so with my last intrusion there which
was mis-taken as an insult and provoked a derisive retort that implied
that words posted with never a picture are suspect.

Our little contretemps was apparently deleted and I'm not trying to stir
the pot or nurse a perceived put down. I _am defending the option of
turners who for whatever reason don't post pictures of their work. The
incalculable value of the thousands of pictures posted to net forums and
sites isn't in question here, but I believe that posting text with never
a pic is an acceptable personal option as is posting a pic of every
piece turned. Both can have legitimate reasons, but neither warrants
derision.

I can understand that a few might feel that if you choose not to picture
your work, you must have something to hide and nothing to offer.
Conversely a few might assume that if you post continuously, you must
have a need you are trying to fill. Not many turners, including me,
accept either premise. Pics are just an option.

As in the sciences, the established arts that I know of have a written
'literature' that grew up around them. The 'literature' helps to assure
each discipline an acceptance among co-workers and gains prestige with
the general public and collectors. Turned wood art probably needs a
'literature' in order to advance.
This isn't about word merchants with no turning experience who read and
regurgitate. It is about those of us who love the craft and try to
contribute, but only post text. Not every word posted is golden, but
then neither is every picture.

As always, I invite your thoughts, pro & con, mild or strong. Assuming
of course, that you and I have the foggiest notion of what I'm musing
about.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Hi Arch

I did read your post and the reply to it.

The thing has been brewing for a long time, and My feeling have been
right from the start (right or wrong) that someone was putting himself
on a pedestal, but then his pedestal got kicked from under him, some
hard feelings arose, and then your post got taken (right or wrong) as
another "put me down", it triggered (wrongly) the vicious reply.
Back in Holland they would say, " if you have long toes someone will
step on them".

As for you not posting any pictures, that's your prerogative, and
certainly do not diminish your (musings) posts, mind you I always like
to see what people turn, and yours are no exception.
I see them as an expression/extension of someone, and so I'm interested
in that.

I do thank you for all the thoughtful posts you do bring to this forum,
looking forward to more.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

Arch wrote:
I occasionally butt in on a thread at another fine forum that includes
pics and words. I do not post pics, but I feel comfortable there because
of so many rcw alumni who know I mean well so they suffer my posts
gladly like old friends do. Not so with my last intrusion there which
was mis-taken as an insult and provoked a derisive retort that implied
that words posted with never a picture are suspect.

Our little contretemps was apparently deleted and I'm not trying to stir
the pot or nurse a perceived put down. I _am defending the option of
turners who for whatever reason don't post pictures of their work. The
incalculable value of the thousands of pictures posted to net forums and
sites isn't in question here, but I believe that posting text with never
a pic is an acceptable personal option as is posting a pic of every
piece turned. Both can have legitimate reasons, but neither warrants
derision.

I can understand that a few might feel that if you choose not to picture
your work, you must have something to hide and nothing to offer.
Conversely a few might assume that if you post continuously, you must
have a need you are trying to fill. Not many turners, including me,
accept either premise. Pics are just an option.

As in the sciences, the established arts that I know of have a written
'literature' that grew up around them. The 'literature' helps to assure
each discipline an acceptance among co-workers and gains prestige with
the general public and collectors. Turned wood art probably needs a
'literature' in order to advance.
This isn't about word merchants with no turning experience who read and
regurgitate. It is about those of us who love the craft and try to
contribute, but only post text. Not every word posted is golden, but
then neither is every picture.

As always, I invite your thoughts, pro & con, mild or strong. Assuming
of course, that you and I have the foggiest notion of what I'm musing
about.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

As always, I invite your thoughts, pro & con, mild or strong. Assuming
of course, that you and I have the foggiest notion of what I'm musing
about.

In a moment of haphazard brilliance, I accidentally deleted Archs'
posting, so please forgive me for posting here. I DID want to confine my
response to the original thread.

Arch ... why be dogmatic about it? Post pics when they convey the message
better than words alone and post just words when you are able to
communicate most effectively that way. Technical pics, especially, help to
convey material that words alone cannot.

For example, it would be much easier to convey the difference between
wavy, curly and fiddle-back grain with a series of three photographs than
to attempt to quantify how much curl at what wavelength must be present
for each of the three grain designations.

I note that you enjoy teaching
.... many of your posts are intended to provoke thought. People learn via
many channels -- why not use the visual channel to augment / concretize
the abstractions that words alone so often convey?

Just my two cent respond to your request for feedback.

Bill

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 00:17:20 -0400, (Arch) wrote:

I occasionally butt in on a thread at another fine forum that includes
pics and words. I do not post pics, but I feel comfortable there because
of so many rcw alumni who know I mean well so they suffer my posts
gladly like old friends do. Not so with my last intrusion there which
was mis-taken as an insult and provoked a derisive retort that implied
that words posted with never a picture are suspect.

Snip

I can understand that a few might feel that if you choose not to picture
your work, you must have something to hide and nothing to offer.
Conversely a few might assume that if you post continuously, you must
have a need you are trying to fill. Not many turners, including me,
accept either premise. Pics are just an option.

Snip

As always, I invite your thoughts, pro & con, mild or strong. Assuming
of course, that you and I have the foggiest notion of what I'm musing
about.

Hi Arch-

I don't know about the particular forum you're talking about here, but
I can tell you that I don't have any pictures of my stuff- whether
someone else likes it or not, I just don't own a camera, and the
couple of short times in my life I've had one were painful episodes
where I learned anew that I am *not* a photographer.

Now, there may be any number of other things going on that provoked
your spat on the other group, but it might be worthwhile (if it's
still being discussed or comes up again) to point out that an ability
to make something out of a hunk of wood has little or nothing to do
with being able to take a picture of that object. When I've tried it,
I end up with snapshots that show the general shape, but precious
little else- including the proper color. Perhaps a more expensive
camera would do the trick- but I look at it in the same manner I
consider all my purchases. Which is to say, before I go and blow any
reasonable amount of cash, I sit down and get my priorities straight
first. Once that happens, the new camera goes somewhere down near the
bottom of the list along with any other number of toys that might be
nice, but don't really matter much in the grand scheme of things.

I guess that's just the long way of saying that while I think my work
is up to snuff when it comes to sharing, my photos of it are not.
Seems like a shame to exclude (or attempt to exclude) someone from a
social group because they are lacking a skill that has very little to
do with the subject in question. Unless you're in direct violation of
the stated rules of the forum, I'd just let it go and not lose any
sleep over it- could be the fella that got on your case was just
having a bad day, that happens to the best of us.

Just a thought, no accusations being made here.

Just because someone posts a picture on the web and says they made
whatever is in the picture, is it a true statement?

If I were a dishonest individual and wanted to blow smoke up someones
tail pipe, I could go to Leo or Arch's website, left click and copy the
images they might have there and then show them to someone in a chat
room and say they are mine, does that mean they are?

I could go to a craft or trade show and take pictures of one of the
local artisans at work and claim on the posting that it was me, was it?

Look, I'm just a backwoods kid from south central Kentucky, and I've
never been accused of being smart. If someone is so shallow minded that
they think a picture is going to truley show them how good someone else
is at turning, they should get their head checked. I'm not a master at
wood turning and I know that. I know just enough about this to be
dangerous at it, but I can tell when I read some of the advice on this
site as to whether someone else knows what they are talking about. I
can view their websites (if they aren't lying) and see what they can
teach me there. If a picture is all it takes to make me a master
turner, let me get my camera out and start snapping a few shots of me
making piles of saw dust in the shop, cause that I know I can do.

Thanks Arch, your insight into things make me think. I enjoy your
thoughts and muses.

JD