I'm new to the group. My name is John Patrick and I sell Heated Bird
Baths online. I have an idea of turning a plater with a rise in the
middle that is just under the hight of the rim.

I can easily put a bird bath deicer on the bottom of the plater to
provide the heat. My concerns are as follows.

How would I attach the heating element. See it he
http://www.farminnovators.com/page9.htm Its the Economical Bird Bath
Deicer.

What wood is best for winter weather? Less likely to crack, keep in
mind it will have a 44 watt heating element to keep the wood and the
water warm even in freezing temperatures.

Will the heat darken the wood?

What would I use to protect the wood from the water without harming the
birds?

Is this even possible?

John Patrick
www.birdoasis.com

This should be an interesting thread to follow.

I can't think of any wood that will stand up to the parameters you
describe of constant heat, constant UV, and be completely exposed to
the elements while submersed in alterantely cold, then warm water
depending on the season.

Robert

I can't think of any wood that will stand up to the parameters you
describe of constant heat, constant UV, and be completely exposed to
the elements while submersed in alterantely cold, then warm water
depending on the season.

He might try Osage Orange. I understand it makes fine fence posts.

"BirdOasis" wrote in message
oups.com...

What wood is best for winter weather? Less likely to crack, keep in
mind it will have a 44 watt heating element to keep the wood and the
water warm even in freezing temperatures.

Untreated redwood?

I think teak, cedar or redwood could work but I would suggest looking
into a marine grade expoy finish. That would protect it from the
water, The problem would be that most fo the ones I looked at don't
have a high UV resistance so they would yellow over time.


On 16 Dec 2005 09:42:56 -0800, "BirdOasis" wrote:

I'm new to the group. My name is John Patrick and I sell Heated Bird
Baths online. I have an idea of turning a plater with a rise in the
middle that is just under the hight of the rim.

I can easily put a bird bath deicer on the bottom of the plater to
provide the heat. My concerns are as follows.

How would I attach the heating element. See it he
http://www.farminnovators.com/page9.htm Its the Economical Bird Bath
Deicer.

What wood is best for winter weather? Less likely to crack, keep in
mind it will have a 44 watt heating element to keep the wood and the
water warm even in freezing temperatures.

Will the heat darken the wood?

What would I use to protect the wood from the water without harming the
birds?

Is this even possible?

John Patrick
www.birdoasis.com

BirdOasis wrote:
I'm new to the group. My name is John Patrick and I sell Heated Bird
Baths online. I have an idea of turning a plater with a rise in the
middle that is just under the hight of the rim.

I can easily put a bird bath deicer on the bottom of the plater to
provide the heat. My concerns are as follows.

How would I attach the heating element. See it he
http://www.farminnovators.com/page9.htm Its the Economical Bird Bath
Deicer.

What wood is best for winter weather? Less likely to crack, keep in
mind it will have a 44 watt heating element to keep the wood and the
water warm even in freezing temperatures.

Will the heat darken the wood?

What would I use to protect the wood from the water without harming the
birds?

Is this even possible?

John Patrick
www.birdoasis.com



Good ad anyway... :-)


--
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those
who have not got it.” George Bernard Shaw

BirdOasis said:

Will the heat darken the wood?

Constant exposure to water, heat and the elements will cause changes
in coloration.

What would I use to protect the wood from the water without harming the
birds?

Is this even possible?

Assuming this isn't a cloaked ad...

My concern in making this from wood is the possibility of bacteria and
such living in the cells of the wood. I don't know if this is a
serious concern, but birds drink from AND bath in birdbaths.
Just as with a wooden chopping block, bacteria could build up to
harmful levels if not treated appropriately.

Really good Boat Epoxy would be my first guess as to a finish.

FWIW,

Greg G.

I guess Snipe bathe in turned bath houses, but I haven't hunted any
lately.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Birds live in trees. They seem to do well with wood, even wet
wood. The trees around here get wet all the time.

Greg G. wrote:

My concern in making this from wood is the possibility of bacteria and
such living in the cells of the wood. I don't know if this is a
serious concern, but birds drink from AND bath in birdbaths.

BirdOasis wrote:

I'm new to the group. My name is John Patrick and I sell Heated Bird
Baths online. I have an idea of turning a plater with a rise in the
middle that is just under the hight of the rim.

I can easily put a bird bath deicer on the bottom of the plater to
provide the heat. My concerns are as follows.

How would I attach the heating element. See it he
http://www.farminnovators.com/page9.htm Its the Economical Bird Bath
Deicer.

What wood is best for winter weather? Less likely to crack, keep in
mind it will have a 44 watt heating element to keep the wood and the
water warm even in freezing temperatures.

Will the heat darken the wood?

What would I use to protect the wood from the water without harming the
birds?

Is this even possible?

Research outdoor hot tubs--whatever works in or around a hot tub should
work. If it's not given regular maintenance it _will_ change color and no
wood is going to last forever kept damp and exposed to the weather.

John Patrick
www.birdoasis.com

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

BirdOasis wrote:

What wood is best for winter weather? Less likely to crack, keep in
mind it will have a 44 watt heating element to keep the wood and the
water warm even in freezing temperatures.

Will the heat darken the wood?

What would I use to protect the wood from the water without harming the
birds?

Is this even possible?

John Patrick
www.birdoasis.com


What about using Ipe ? It doesn't rot and will gray after sun exposure,
but it will probably stand up to the elements. If it doesn't, then New
Jersey's boardwalk is on borrowed time...

http://www.floorings.com/decking/ipe/features.shtml

I've read that the boardwalk has been repaired using Ipe over the last
decade or so, but I'm not sure if they ever replaced the entire
boardwalk with Ipe, as that page points out. Several years ago, an
injunction was granted to block the city from using Ipe - due to
environmental concerns that the Brazilian rainforest is being depleted
too quickly.

--
Brad Curfman
http://www.curfman.net

Mike Berger said:

Birds live in trees. They seem to do well with wood, even wet
wood. The trees around here get wet all the time.

Greg G. wrote:

My concern in making this from wood is the possibility of bacteria and
such living in the cells of the wood. I don't know if this is a
serious concern, but birds drink from AND bath in birdbaths.

Trees aren't dead containers filled with 2 quarts of captive, heated
water, being **** in, bathed in, and drunk out of by 100 birds a day
either. Think large Petri-Dish. Not birdhouses.

I have raised birds from eggs, keep pet birds, and maintain numerous
birdfeeders and baths on our property. Birds die from exposure to
human saliva and contaminated water. What makes you think your
lousy analogy holds any water?


Greg G.

Here's an idea for you, altho it's outside the scope of this forum:
make them out of stone.
At least 2 types of stone I know of can be turned on a lathe -
soapstone and alabaster. If you ask a rock hound, they will be able to
tell you the hardness of many other available stones similar to
soapstone.
If you search the web, you will find sites of those who turn stone,
contact them for help.

I really think you're barking up the wrong "tree", pun intended, by
using wood for this aplication.

Another possibility: turn from any wood, make a mold, and use poured
concrete for the final product.

re = using stone - Alabaster can dissolve if exposed to the elements. I had
an alabaster bird essentially dissolve along stone seams after being exposed
to rain for several summers in the Northeast.

bernie feinerman

Greg G wrote:

Trees aren't dead containers filled with 2 quarts of captive, heated
water, being **** in, bathed in, and drunk out of by 100 birds a day
either. Think large Petri-Dish. Not birdhouses.

I have raised birds from eggs, keep pet birds, and maintain numerous
birdfeeders and baths on our property. Birds die from exposure to
human saliva and contaminated water. What makes you think your
lousy analogy holds any water?


Greg - I have noticed some really sever mood swings (I am not trying to
be a smart ass here) in your posts. Many of your posts on this and
other NGs are really even handed, thoughtful, and informative. Even
entertaining.

But boy... when someone hits a hotspot, your counter post is like
standing in front of furnace (although I will admit, this one is really
benign). I wouldn't really notice, but I followed some of your other
threads, and they were like listening to your next door neighbor on
Saturday afternoon (you know, the one you like.) Such a diffence in
tone...

Just wondering...

Robert

I think you would be exceeding the natural characteristics of any wood I've
ever heard of. Man-made materials such as galvanized metal, copper, ABS
plastics or other materials might be much better suited for the intended
purpose. Think about it.......a platter exposed to the winter cold on one
side and expected to hold heated water on the other................. Wood
is a great material, but it has limitations.

Barry


"BirdOasis" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm new to the group. My name is John Patrick and I sell Heated Bird
Baths online. I have an idea of turning a plater with a rise in the
middle that is just under the hight of the rim.

I can easily put a bird bath deicer on the bottom of the plater to
provide the heat. My concerns are as follows.

How would I attach the heating element. See it he
http://www.farminnovators.com/page9.htm Its the Economical Bird Bath
Deicer.

What wood is best for winter weather? Less likely to crack, keep in
mind it will have a 44 watt heating element to keep the wood and the
water warm even in freezing temperatures.

Will the heat darken the wood?

What would I use to protect the wood from the water without harming the
birds?

Is this even possible?

John Patrick
www.birdoasis.com

Uhhhhhhhh................doesn't the Geico lizard live in the Brazilian rain
forest?

Barry


"Brad Curfman" wrote in message
. ..
BirdOasis wrote:

What wood is best for winter weather? Less likely to crack, keep in
mind it will have a 44 watt heating element to keep the wood and the
water warm even in freezing temperatures.

Will the heat darken the wood?

What would I use to protect the wood from the water without harming the
birds?

Is this even possible?

John Patrick
www.birdoasis.com


What about using Ipe ? It doesn't rot and will gray after sun exposure,
but it will probably stand up to the elements. If it doesn't, then New
Jersey's boardwalk is on borrowed time...

http://www.floorings.com/decking/ipe/features.shtml

I've read that the boardwalk has been repaired using Ipe over the last
decade or so, but I'm not sure if they ever replaced the entire
boardwalk with Ipe, as that page points out. Several years ago, an
injunction was granted to block the city from using Ipe - due to
environmental concerns that the Brazilian rainforest is being depleted
too quickly.

--
Brad Curfman
http://www.curfman.net

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 12:08:16 -0500, "bernie feinerman"
wrote:

re = using stone - Alabaster can dissolve if exposed to the elements. I had
an alabaster bird essentially dissolve along stone seams after being exposed
to rain for several summers in the Northeast.

I would recommend making a segmented turning, using different colors
of slate for the design and Gorilla Glue to hold it together.

tic(toc)

--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

This discussion is becoming a tempest in a birdbath and strictly for the
birds, but probably it's more heated than a turned wood electric bird
bath will ever be. I keep waiting for someone to mention the magical
antibacterial and electrical insulation properties of wet wood.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

I can only hope that occurs only with some alabaster and not others.
Catholic church in Los Angeles built a major new cathedral, with all
alabaster windows!

On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 17:56:25 -0500, Greg wrote:

Trees aren't dead containers filled with 2 quarts of captive, heated
water, being **** in, bathed in, and drunk out of by 100 birds a day
either. Think large Petri-Dish. Not birdhouses.

I have raised birds from eggs, keep pet birds, and maintain numerous
birdfeeders and baths on our property. Birds die from exposure to
human saliva and contaminated water. What makes you think your
lousy analogy holds any water?

Hey Greg, did you miss your meds today?
Lighten up, dude, this is a family newsgroup and a FRIENDLY bunch of
people. This isn't rec.cranky.woodworkers (Or
rec.unstable.woodworkers, for that matter. What's that little song
and dance about, anyhow?)

--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

wrote:

I can only hope that occurs only with some alabaster and not others.
Catholic church in Los Angeles built a major new cathedral, with all
alabaster windows!



Thine Alabaster Windows Shine!

Until the first big rain.

Chuck said:

Hey Greg, did you miss your meds today?
Lighten up, dude, this is a family newsgroup and a FRIENDLY bunch of
people. This isn't rec.cranky.woodworkers (Or
rec.unstable.woodworkers, for that matter. What's that little song
and dance about, anyhow?)

No med's, sorry. And I hardly consider calling an analogy "lousy"
warrants a comparison to any form of psychosis. Only an instant bad
attitude towards what I consider to be unreasoned sarcasm. Comes with
age and a lifetime of dealing with people who don't fully consider
their response before rebutting with sarcasm.
I'm as polite in return as I'm addressed.

You apparently missed the flow of the thread due to a previous top
poster. So look it over again - in order:

Greg G. wrote:
My concern in making this from wood is the possibility of bacteria and
such living in the cells of the wood.

Mike Berger said:
Birds live in trees. They seem to do well with wood, even wet
wood. The trees around here get wet all the time.

Greg G. wrote:
Trees aren't dead containers filled with 2 quarts of captive, heated
water, being **** in, bathed in, and drunk out of by 100 birds a day
either. Think large Petri-Dish. Not birdhouses.

I have raised birds from eggs, keep pet birds, and maintain numerous
birdfeeders and baths on our property. Birds die from exposure to
human saliva and contaminated water. What makes you think your
lousy analogy holds any water?

Therein lies the poor analogy - and the poster's apparent sarcasm.
A tree isn't a heated bird bath.
And it doesn't hold water - get it? It's a joke.

But I hardly think it's worth putting up a birdbath if it contributes
to the spread of an avian disease. Birds are overly sensitive to
bacterial infections. Any place where 50+ birds a day bathe, poop,
and drink should be maintained meticulously - or what's the point?

Just as with a wooden chopping block that is used with meat, you can
not remove the bacteria from the wood without sterilization - which
isn't likely considering the fact that it's a backyard birdbath. And
is probably one reason they are generally made of an inert material.

Want yard art? Fine - build something else.
But a petri dish for avian diseases they can do without.
Birds are my friends... ;-)

While a wooden birdbath certainly might be attractive, unless it were
sealed with a completely cured waterproof marine epoxy, it could be
harmful to the same birds you are trying to benefit. Proper
maintenance by JohnQ is improbable, given the fact that my next door
neighbor leaves his garbage cans in the street for a week. What are
the chances he is going to sterilize a birdbath twice a week?

From the Vermont Institute of Natural Science:
-----------
Select baths that are made of materials that are easy to disinfect
such as plastic and glass. Wood and unglazed pottery can be hard to
remove feces and can also harbor bacteria and grow algae and fungi.
------------

From an Audubon brochu
-----------
Much like a busy restaurant needs constant cleaning to maintain
sanitary conditions, so does a busy bird feeder or bird bath. Left
unchecked, unclean receptacles can develop fungi and bacteria,
potentially causing disease and even death of your resident songbirds.

The communal feeding and bathing by your birds allows for the easy
spread of disease. Contaminated food and droppings can cause a host of
diseases and infections that can result in harmful effects to birds.

Depending on weather conditions, bird feeders should generally be
cleaned every two weeks. Baths should be emptied and refilled every
few days. For a thorough cleaning of feeders and bird baths, use 9
parts water to one part bleach, or use vinegar. Wooden baths are
difficult to disinfect thoroughly.
-----------

Enough said.

FWIW,

Greg G.

said:

Greg - I have noticed some really sever mood swings (I am not trying to
be a smart ass here) in your posts. Many of your posts on this and
other NGs are really even handed, thoughtful, and informative. Even
entertaining.

Sure, fine. Jump on the bandwagon - I'll be today's target. ;-)
Even more confusing, you're not even replying to the same thread. :-o
Must be some bizarre quirk with Google...

I have no severed moods. But if you mean severe, then read my
response to Chuck - I think that about covers it. It's back there in
the original thread...

But boy... when someone hits a hotspot, your counter post is like
standing in front of furnace (although I will admit, this one is really
benign). I wouldn't really notice, but I followed some of your other
threads, and they were like listening to your next door neighbor on
Saturday afternoon (you know, the one you like.) Such a diffence in
tone...

Just wondering...

Probably too much of an association with lawyers - who could suck your
soul barren in a month. Otherwise, probably a too long association
with people who respond with sarcasm to a well intentioned post. But
since you bother to call me out of the crowd, have you read some of
the bickering over in the Wreck? Cripes, I don't hold a candle to
some of those guys... A week-long argument as to whether a package
from Lee Valley was properly packed. And you call ME a furnace? Ha!

I respond as politely as I'm addressed.
I'm too old and weathered to care otherwise.
Perhaps my understanding of the semantics of the English language
derives sarcasm that isn't intended.

Maybe our two month ordeal with the idiots at Charter has given me
very little patience to spare concerning ISP support personnel. Our
service has been intermittent for months, and after hours and hours of
attempting to teach their personnel how to service their own
equipment, I'm a little peeved...

Or possibly I'm just a very unpleasant person. ;-)

FWIW,


Greg G.

Greg wrote:

But I hardly think it's worth putting up a birdbath if it contributes
to the spread of an avian disease. Birds are overly sensitive to
bacterial infections. Any place where 50+ birds a day bathe, poop,
and drink should be maintained meticulously - or what's the point?



While I agree that bird baths should be maintained and that wood is a poor
choice for bird bath material, I will point out that these are Wild birds.
There are lots of Bad Things in the wild and the birds seem to do just
fine. I live about a quarter mile from an urban refuge of sorts. I
regularly see birds eating, drinking and bathing in stagnant little ponds
or puddles. Including geese and ducks (all winter) - their bowel habits are
legendary. I would not drink the water - they do.

Greg G wrote:

Or possibly I'm just a very unpleasant person. ;-)


Awwww... I doubt that. It is indeed hard to find out what the intent
is of the email from time to time. From time to time I am fooled by
postings that use a different vernacular or phrasing than I am used to.
I know when I am having a bad day, or someone hits on a pertinent
subject that is ****ing me off, I am liable to take it either the wrong
way, or maybe take it too far. Notice I DID NOT say you, but I will
say that I do that on occasion.

I have seen on every group I have participated in where things get so
out of hand on things like defending Norm from NYY, Lee Valley, that
people will put in writing things that they would never say face to
face. The wouldn't be that rude or stupid. On the other hand, they
may not feel the need to say them if they have the benefit of tone,
inflection, and a wry grin.

I participated for quite a while in the rec.woodworking ( I assume this
is your reference to the Wreck) and they got so mean and ****y that it
simply wasn't worth it. I have been a professional contractor and
woodworker for over 25 years, and I just didn't feel like I needed to
listen to some moron that got the new Time Life book on trims tell me
how screwed up I was, then scream like he was on fire if I told him he
was wrong. You are right, things get nasty over there fast. And the
hell of it all is they are quite proud of it. They think it is a
private club, and you must obey those who post the most since it is
their private playground. I didn't read or participate with that
group for years, and never missed it. Only spotty now. Same happened
with alt.coffee. Both are used now for archive sources, where they can
still kick ass.

For most people, including a great deal here and no the wreck,
woodworking is a hobby. Even though it is a profession for me, I try
not to wieners bother me. At the young age of fifty, having been self
employed for 25 years, I have learned that most people do not care
about my opinion, and in many cases, I don't care about theirs. With
that in mind, unless it gets insulting, I usually let the knotheads
feel like they have scored with the keyboard sniping. Who cares?

I only mentioned you by name as I have read a great deal of your posts,
especially on the wreck. Again, mostly good stuff, but a few hot spots
seem to come up. However, in reading your post, dealing with attorneys
and crappy isps sure puts me on edge.
Good luck with all that.

Robert

said:

Greg G wrote:

Or possibly I'm just a very unpleasant person. ;-)


Awwww... I doubt that. It is indeed hard to find out what the intent
is of the email from time to time.

Robert,
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but don't be too sure of it... ;-)
I can be just as big an arse in person, and I doubt I've ever said
anything on-line that I wouldn't have said in person. :-o

Perceived attitude has a lot to do with how I respond to a subject
that is already smoldering. I know I shouldn't let any of it bother
me, after all, it's just faceless bits flying through Cyberspace, but
I suppose 20 years of on-line experiences has left me somewhat jaded.
Some people can be amazingly dense about life and the things in it.
And the methodologies they use to prop up their faulty reasoning is
just as confounding. And it gets worse with every passing year.

But the written forum removes the instant feedback of body language,
and when you add poor comprehension of the language into the mix, it
can be difficult indeed to determine the intended tone of a poster.

30+ years of working with a variety of incompetents, ranging from
electronics, mechanics, and construction contractors has left me with
very little patience for ignorance as well. To run across someone who
actually knows something about their chosen field is such a joyful and
all too infrequent thing. Maybe it has something to do with being
from the Southeastern US, but almost every time I or my friends have
called an alleged professional to perform a job, it ends up done
incorrectly. Or worse, with the outright intention to defraud! And
just watch 'em line up to screw over a widow or single woman. And
what really gets to me is that the biggest thieves are generally the
most incompetent and additionally believe that they should make more
money for doing less work than an honest and competent peer. I just
don't understand how anyone can go through life with such a distorted
view of reality - or not feel obligated by some personal code of
ethics to do the best job they can - for every customer, not just the
ones who complain the loudest. So I've become pretty hasty to call a
spade a spade these days - especially when it comes to two-faced
politicians and the tripe they sling at one another. Which has, in
these slightly more modern times, become talking points in an endless
barrage of media think-tank and PSYOP's propagated misinformation and
distraction.

That is one of the redeeming things about the Wreck (rec.woodworking).
Many of the participants are very intelligent people who have a well
founded understanding of their chosen fields of employment, and
several other fields as well. A few can get rather ****y right off
the bat, and perhaps some of that has rubbed off, but I generally try
to restrict my activity to expressing my opinion on a given subject
and then walking away. Perhaps somewhere, deep inside, I get a cheap
thrill out of poking some of the more excitable, unreasonable people
with a sharp pointy-stick - once or twice. ;-)

One of the various hats I don on a regular basis requires that I write
RDBS software for various vendors across the US. Some of the barely
legible e-mails we receive from supposed industry "managers" astounds
me. How some of these folks made it out of college (or high school
for that matter) defies comprehension. Total lack of sentence
structure, punctuation, and capitalization leads me to dismiss them as
lazy brained people who either drink to much, or simply don't care.

And one is only left to wonder how we, as pampered US citizens, are
going to benefit from a "World Economy" full of very crafty people who
have been surviving harsh conditions for decades, even centuries. We
have dropped the ball, and a world full of hungry opportunists have
picked it up and are charging like a tsunami towards the financial
goal post. We think we have the upper hand due to some temporal
financial superiority, but this is all changing radically as we speak.

I have seen on every group I have participated in where things get so
out of hand on things like defending Norm from NYY, Lee Valley,

I hear ya... Norm sure can bring out the passion in some folks! ;-)
I have found myself defending comments concerning Norm that were not
even derogatory, simply because a reader either misunderstood the
statement, or had so little knowledge of the subject matter that they
just blindly argued non-facts and opinion. As an example: "Norm is
one heck of a nice guy, but he is not an accomplished woodturner."
That simple statement elicited several flames, as I recall...

I participated for quite a while in the rec.woodworking ( I assume this
is your reference to the Wreck)

Yes it is - and an appropriate moniker as well... it IS a wreck!

and they got so mean and ****y that it simply wasn't worth it.

I hear ya...
When I start feeling more agitated after participating there than
before, I just ignore the lot of them for months on end. It's
supposed to be enjoyable, after all. But invariably, something will
come up that I desire additional input on, and I show back up,
dragging my tail behind me.

I have been a professional contractor and woodworker for over
25 years and I just didn't feel like I needed to
listen to some moron that got the new Time Life book on trims tell me
how screwed up I was, then scream like he was on fire if I told him he
was wrong.

Well, you have far more experience that I do. Although I've been a
hobbyist woodworker on and off since childhood, I've only pursued it
semi-seriously for the past 5 years or so... And I've yet had to hang
cove molding!

But this is what happens when you have a well established coterie of
knowledgeable people who are then inundated with newbies who think
they know everything, but in actuality, don't have a freaking clue!

Both are used now for archive sources, where they can still kick ass.

Yes, as a source of raw data - Usenet excels! You just have to
separate the wheat from the chaff - which is a daunting task at times.

I have read a great deal of your posts, especially on the wreck.
Again, mostly good stuff, but a few hot spots seem to come up.

Thanks. I'm sure I come off as an opinionated arse occasionally, but
hey, that's life! Personal redemption arrives when times proves me to
be correct about a point of contention. Don't compare me to either a
liberal or a neo-con - or imply, with a misplaced self-righteous tone,
that I'm a liar or an idiot and everything is usually cool. ;-)

Well, I've rambled enough this chilly morning - I've got more jigs and
bowls to make!

Later,

Greg G.

Lobby Dosser said:

Greg wrote:

But I hardly think it's worth putting up a birdbath if it contributes
to the spread of an avian disease. Birds are overly sensitive to
bacterial infections. Any place where 50+ birds a day bathe, poop,
and drink should be maintained meticulously - or what's the point?


While I agree that bird baths should be maintained and that wood is a poor
choice for bird bath material, I will point out that these are Wild birds.
There are lots of Bad Things in the wild and the birds seem to do just
fine. I live about a quarter mile from an urban refuge of sorts. I
regularly see birds eating, drinking and bathing in stagnant little ponds
or puddles. Including geese and ducks (all winter) - their bowel habits are
legendary. I would not drink the water - they do.

Not trying to start anything here, but only to make a point.

Africans drink bad water as well. And they still get Guinea Worms.
Many die. Many spend painful months dealing with the infections. Yet
there are still many people who flock to contaminated water holes to
drink the water. This doesn't make it healthy or desirable.
http://www.astdhpphe.org/infect/guinea.html

Captive (pet) birds are actually far less likely to suffer from the
spread of disease than wild birds - unless it's a breeders'
enterprise. You don't generally pass a disease to yourself. I know
of no individuals who contracted Aids from self-abuse. ;-)

Avian Influenza (Bird flu) is reaching epidemic proportions in parts
of the world - and is gaining a foothold in the US as well. It is
well known in Canada.

Unless you are banding the birds and tracking which ones may or may
not succumb to disease, you cannot confirm that they aren't suffering
from the act of drinking bad water. Songbirds are far more delicate
and susceptible than ducks, geese, and pigeons. Additionally, many
people (like us), live on migration routes, and birds who come to
drink from our bird ponds can be infected by diseases they aren't
normally exposed to, and have no natural immunity to contradict a
swift death. Some become carriers, thereby transporting the disease
across thousands of miles before infecting the local population of yet
another region.

Naturally, all of this is going to happen on it's own over time, by
virtue of the disease's own survival devices. But it certainly
doesn't need our inadvertent help in spreading, either.

Remember, the Native Indians of this country weren't wiped out by guns
as much as by the diseases brought from Europe by the white-man.

And the plague... well... what can I say?

FWIW,

Greg G.

Greg wrote:

And the plague... well... what can I say?


'Bout a thousand or so geese went over the house early this am. Heading
south somewhere for breakfast. They'll pass over again this evening. Those
as drank the bad water will be crapping along the way from a great height -
amazing what that does on a Vertical surface. )

Lobby Dosser said:

Greg wrote:

And the plague... well... what can I say?


'Bout a thousand or so geese went over the house early this am. Heading
south somewhere for breakfast. They'll pass over again this evening. Those
as drank the bad water will be crapping along the way from a great height -
amazing what that does on a Vertical surface. )

Like oh, say... the freshly washed car. A 1 lb. diarrhea bomb.
We get geese twice a year, and last week were the sandhill cranes.
What a racket - and what a mess. ;-)


Greg G.

Greg wrote:

Lobby Dosser said:

Greg wrote:

And the plague... well... what can I say?


'Bout a thousand or so geese went over the house early this am.
Heading south somewhere for breakfast. They'll pass over again this
evening. Those as drank the bad water will be crapping along the way
from a great height - amazing what that does on a Vertical surface.
)

Like oh, say... the freshly washed car. A 1 lb. diarrhea bomb.
We get geese twice a year, and last week were the sandhill cranes.
What a racket - and what a mess. ;-)

We have the geese all winter and they fly over the house a couple times a
day. I swear some of them must have Norden bombsights. Perfect patterns!

When I was younger and more foolish I did some work for a friend who owned a
laying farm, among other types of farming enterprises. We had to move new
layers from the brood barn to the laying barn and then clean the brood barn.
I thought we were on the concrete floor and then found out it was 2 to 2
1/2' down. Hen manure, pick axes and shovels to the conveyer. Do not
complain about a lousy thousand geese for a fly over :-) Did I ever tell you
about Uncle Merritt's bird farm? Beauty is in the "eye" not the "nose" of
the beholder :-)

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:41:54 -0500, Greg wrote:

How some of these folks made it out of college (or high school
for that matter) defies comprehension. Total lack of sentence
structure, punctuation, and capitalization leads me to dismiss them as
lazy brained people who either drink to much, or simply don't care.

I'll assume you are referring to lazy brained people who either don't
care or who toast abundance.

Ricky

"Darrell Feltmate" wrote:

When I was younger and more foolish I did some work for a friend who
owned a laying farm, among other types of farming enterprises. We had
to move new layers from the brood barn to the laying barn and then
clean the brood barn. I thought we were on the concrete floor and then
found out it was 2 to 2 1/2' down. Hen manure, pick axes and shovels
to the conveyer. Do not complain about a lousy thousand geese for a
fly over :-) Did I ever tell you about Uncle Merritt's bird farm?
Beauty is in the "eye" not the "nose" of the beholder :-)


Ever see the PBS (IIRC) show on the Guano Islands off Chile?
2' is nothing. )

Speaking of Uncle Merritt, I once had to do a survey of the Turkey Farm at
Oregon State. Wading through a 1000 or so Turkeys with a transit ain't a
lot of fun - oops pardon me - coming through - giddyup - shoo - Bugger OFF!
(trying to shake turkey loose from pantleg) ...

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:45:03 -0600, Ricky Robbins
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:41:54 -0500, Greg wrote:

How some of these folks made it out of college (or high school
for that matter) defies comprehension. Total lack of sentence
structure, punctuation, and capitalization leads me to dismiss them as
lazy brained people who either drink to much, or simply don't care.

I'll assume you are referring to lazy brained people who either don't
care or who toast abundance.


Hahaha...too-shay!

--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

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Lobby
God made turkeys to make sheep look smart. :-)

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

Ricky Robbins said:

I'll assume you are referring to lazy brained people who either don't
care or who toast abundance.

How lame - I need a proofreader.
To/Too, bad structure, etc.

I suppose this makes me one of them. :-\
Argh...


Greg G.

Ricky Robbins said:

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:41:54 -0500, Greg wrote:

lazy brained people who either drink to much, or simply don't care.

I'll assume you are referring to lazy brained people who either don't
care or who toast abundance.

Actually, it would be people who send emails like the following.
(Names revealing the guilty have been XXX'd out - otherwise pasted
verbatim.) This is from the Manager of a large dealer in CA:
-------------
I am with a Office supply dealer in xxxxxx Ca.We get your name from a
gentelmen at the XXXX show in Las vegas. We have XX/XXX
software- but have not use it to its fullest, As we do can have a
Expert on site- I do, do some reporting from it. I would love to do
more.
Iam very interested in what you do, Right now our need is for a
Catalog.Maybe we can talk- i think there are about 50-100 items some
are in our database- some we have download pictures.
----------

Not simply a typo - but all that I described heretofore. This person
is white, US born and educated. Is this the product of a bilingual
education in Southern, CA? Scary!

Touché. G

FWIW,

Greg G.

"Darrell Feltmate" wrote:

Lobby
God made turkeys to make sheep look smart. :-)


Got that right!

Greg,

Your moment of accepting humility was appreciated. Your example is
unbelievable..

Merry Christmas
TomNie topposter

"Greg G." wrote in message
...
Ricky Robbins said:

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:41:54 -0500, Greg wrote:

lazy brained people who either drink to much, or simply don't care.

I'll assume you are referring to lazy brained people who either don't
care or who toast abundance.

Actually, it would be people who send emails like the following.
(Names revealing the guilty have been XXX'd out - otherwise pasted
verbatim.) This is from the Manager of a large dealer in CA:
-------------
I am with a Office supply dealer in xxxxxx Ca.We get your name from a
gentelmen at the XXXX show in Las vegas. We have XX/XXX
software- but have not use it to its fullest, As we do can have a
Expert on site- I do, do some reporting from it. I would love to do
more.
Iam very interested in what you do, Right now our need is for a
Catalog.Maybe we can talk- i think there are about 50-100 items some
are in our database- some we have download pictures.
----------

Not simply a typo - but all that I described heretofore. This person
is white, US born and educated. Is this the product of a bilingual
education in Southern, CA? Scary!

Touché. G

FWIW,

Greg G.