Woodturning (rec.crafts.woodturning) To discuss tools, techniques, styles, materials, shows and competitions, education and educational materials related to woodturning. All skill levels are welcome, from art turners to production turners, beginners to masters.

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Arch
 
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Default Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.

Before even tasting, I grind black pepper over light colored food and
shake salt on dark food and so I consume a lot of peppercorns. Lori
bought me a new (to me) product; a small bottle of peppercorns with an
integral plastic grinder on top. It's the same price as other brands
that lack a grinder and so far it really works and looks good enough for
our everyday table.

I suppose we turners pay much more than she did for quality pepper mill
mechanisms and we turn beautiful wooden housings because there's a
mystique about aiming a huge overbuilt grinder at a guest's salad or
mashed potatoes, and so the public will buy our mills. Same with many
other accessories that we buy and add to our turnings (or add our
turnings to the accessory) for both show and blow and hopefully profit.

There are kaleidoscopes, egg stands, bells and light pulls. Devices for
making tea lights, oil candles, night lights, votive cups and confetti
lights are available; so are neck chains, egg timers, toothpick
dispensers, and candy jars, not to mention shaving brushes. They are
offered in stores and catalogs and many feel some sort of urge to buy
them. We decorate or incorporate them with wood turnings and compete
with chainstore imports for sales.
I reckon that turned objects decorated and enabled by storebought
mechanisms and accessories must have cash value and/or satisfy
woodturners; else why do so many make them? Kits and such stuff
wouldn't be offered if we didn't buy them.

I hope this is a fair question to ask without upsetting anyone. Velvet
paintings, pipestem objects, whirleygigs and pink flamingos all have a
place somewhere. I take no position about them; art and vulgarity being
in the eye of each beholder and all that. So...., do you think the
sorts of small craft that depend on novel external accessories or kits
are turned to help pay the bills or to satisfy to some extent, our need
to use our hands? ....or for what other reasons?

Didja ever wonder if by competing with imported novelties we short
change ourselves and cheapen the woodturning craft/art/hobby/business?
In the long run
does this diminish the public's image of turned wooden objects, hence
lower their expectations of what they should pay us for what we do?

There are so many small "pure" turnings to make; ornaments, boxes,
miniatures, bird houses, spurtles, etc. etc. that I wonder why we pander
to mediocrity, if that's what we do when we buy thinly plated, cheaply
made key ring, corkscrew. and pill holder kits? Pens, clocks, bottle
stoppers, and hand mirrors are a diferent matter' They are often
elegant. Anyway they are exempted for my safety.

I admit to a preference for making or owning a wood turning that is all
wood and stands alone, but I have to admit that I sometimes incorporate
do-dads from thrift shops into or onto my turnings. You can't make a
table lamp without a socket, but you can make a candlestick without a
metal cup. While I'm inquiring; do women or for that matter men, really
hang their earrings on a turned ebony stand or take a pink ivory basting
brush to their Thanksgiving turkey while relieving their itch with a
beautiful bird's eye back scratcher turned from a kit?

After all this tedious musing while skirting the edge of unintentional
insults to friends and fellow turners, I'm still the same miserable ole
COC, but .........OTOH!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

  #2   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.

Evenin" Arch:

While I do NOT turn the Plethora of dodads out there, I do turn and
sell Kaleidoscopes. I don't feel that I compete with the "offshore"
product. I sell the Kaleidoscopes for $35.00 to $40.00! Definitely NOT
the cheap variety. I sell quite a few. As a matter of fact, they
usually make a mundane show a winner!

The Other Bruce
================================================== ============

Arch wrote:
Before even tasting, I grind black pepper over light colored food and
shake salt on dark food and so I consume a lot of peppercorns. Lori
bought me a new (to me) product; a small bottle of peppercorns with an
integral plastic grinder on top. It's the same price as other brands
that lack a grinder and so far it really works and looks good enough for
our everyday table.

I suppose we turners pay much more than she did for quality pepper mill
mechanisms and we turn beautiful wooden housings because there's a
mystique about aiming a huge overbuilt grinder at a guest's salad or
mashed potatoes, and so the public will buy our mills. Same with many
other accessories that we buy and add to our turnings (or add our
turnings to the accessory) for both show and blow and hopefully profit.

There are kaleidoscopes, egg stands, bells and light pulls. Devices for
making tea lights, oil candles, night lights, votive cups and confetti
lights are available; so are neck chains, egg timers, toothpick
dispensers, and candy jars, not to mention shaving brushes. They are
offered in stores and catalogs and many feel some sort of urge to buy
them. We decorate or incorporate them with wood turnings and compete
with chainstore imports for sales.
I reckon that turned objects decorated and enabled by storebought
mechanisms and accessories must have cash value and/or satisfy
woodturners; else why do so many make them? Kits and such stuff
wouldn't be offered if we didn't buy them.

I hope this is a fair question to ask without upsetting anyone. Velvet
paintings, pipestem objects, whirleygigs and pink flamingos all have a
place somewhere. I take no position about them; art and vulgarity being
in the eye of each beholder and all that. So...., do you think the
sorts of small craft that depend on novel external accessories or kits
are turned to help pay the bills or to satisfy to some extent, our need
to use our hands? ....or for what other reasons?

Didja ever wonder if by competing with imported novelties we short
change ourselves and cheapen the woodturning craft/art/hobby/business?
In the long run
does this diminish the public's image of turned wooden objects, hence
lower their expectations of what they should pay us for what we do?

There are so many small "pure" turnings to make; ornaments, boxes,
miniatures, bird houses, spurtles, etc. etc. that I wonder why we pander
to mediocrity, if that's what we do when we buy thinly plated, cheaply
made key ring, corkscrew. and pill holder kits? Pens, clocks, bottle
stoppers, and hand mirrors are a diferent matter' They are often
elegant. Anyway they are exempted for my safety.

I admit to a preference for making or owning a wood turning that is all
wood and stands alone, but I have to admit that I sometimes incorporate
do-dads from thrift shops into or onto my turnings. You can't make a
table lamp without a socket, but you can make a candlestick without a
metal cup. While I'm inquiring; do women or for that matter men, really
hang their earrings on a turned ebony stand or take a pink ivory basting
brush to their Thanksgiving turkey while relieving their itch with a
beautiful bird's eye back scratcher turned from a kit?

After all this tedious musing while skirting the edge of unintentional
insults to friends and fellow turners, I'm still the same miserable ole
COC, but .........OTOH!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings


  #3   Report Post  
Arch
 
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Default Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned'novelties'.

Hi Bruce, Thanks for responding. For you, I'll exempt kaleidoscopes. I
bet there will be others.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

  #4   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.

Well Archibald, you are getting to be a bit more sly in your musings.
Walking a finer line that in musings past... being a little more
sensitive (and verbose!) in your wonderings. I am sure many appreciate
your new found tact, but for me


Knock it off!!

Where is the "hey, what the hell is going on here" thread we used to
see every once in a while?

As far as cheapening turning... I dunno. I make votive candle holders,
traditional oil lamps (the big early american looking things) as well
as oil candles. (Hey... why does all the stuff I turn have the abilty
to play with fire?)

I turn them because they look traditional, and I generally sell all
that I can make, within reason of course. I like the look of the
things, and I spend a lot of time and effort to come up with that nice
blank, and orient it the way I want on the lathe. I get a lot of
compliments because of the simplicity of design and the work I put in
wood selection and finishing.

However, 8 - 9 years ago, I made pens like crazy. Why? I sold them to
pay for the lathe, the tools, and all the other damn stuff I thought I
needed to turn. I sold my Parker style pens for $65 - $75 bucks all
day long. I spent a long time making each pen, and fit the wood to the
kit with my dial calipers, not fitting the barrels to the bushings.
The fit and finish were as good as I could make them. I had each pen
laser engraved with the purchaser's name, and put them in a
presentation box with instructions on how to take care of their writing
instrument.

I never, ever, once looked at the guys that were begging to sell their
pens for $12 - $35 dollars as my competition. While I don't do that
anymore, I saw it as a means to an end. Perfume vials sell because
they are a thoughtful, handmade gift for a husband to make a wife.
Same with mirrors. I made one egg timer, and I play with it while I am
on the phone, and it has made a great conversation piece for my clients
sitting on my desk.

I bore easily. So when I make my annual Craft Supplies "here come the
holidays" I always take a look at what they have and make an effort to
try something new. This year, I am going to make some wine stoppers.
I have a friend that is a true afficionado, and he will be thrilled to
have a Cocobolo stopper with his initials burned on the end.

For me personally, I don't like much of that stuff. Although I must
say... I do love my 14" rosewood barbeque brush. But for gifts, that
stuff is hard to beat. And I think that in this day and age of people
that buy everything and make little, a gift that even hints at handmade
is a welcome change from the norm. And ponder this: if you are not
familiar with woodworking, or in this particular case, woodturning,
think how special it would be to receive one of those wonderful
peppermills handmade for you by one of your buddies that noticed your
affection for pepper. Would it be a keepsake, or an annoying gewgaw?

Robert

  #5   Report Post  
Ecnerwal
 
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Default Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.

In article ,
(Arch) wrote:

Before even tasting, I grind black pepper over light colored food and
shake salt on dark food and so I consume a lot of peppercorns. Lori
bought me a new (to me) product; a small bottle of peppercorns with an
integral plastic grinder on top. It's the same price as other brands
that lack a grinder and so far it really works and looks good enough for
our everyday table.


Well now, that would irritate me - throwaway junk, and most likely at
the cost of worse pepper in the container - and I bet you can get bulk
peppercorns cheaper if you shop for them somewhere that they are not in
a container (there isn't a spice in the local grocery store that can
compare or compete with the spices at the local co-op, but the co-op
does not have them in little packages). Not that I have made one, or
need to, as I have the diminutive mill (wood, turned, probably in a
factory, probably in the US or another western country) I took away to
college a few decades ago, leaving several others in my parent's house.

I've been negatively impressed with several of the available
gew-gaw-ettes, such as those (clearly, even from the catalog pictures,
rather poorly made) peppermills with the little metal hoppers sitting on
top. I haven't bought any of Ruth's fine wine stoppers, but I certainly
see the inspiration for them in the junk various outlets have been
offering for that purpose (but I use a vacuum-pump thingy on my
half-bottles, so...).

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by


  #6   Report Post  
Earl
 
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Default Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.

The question almost sounds like a variation of the ol' Arts vs. Crafts
discussions with the implication that we shouldn't do craft because it
cheapens the art. But like it or not, woodturning is both and I don't
see anything wrong with that. Nor do I think it cheapens the more
profound pieces. Look at paintings: you can get cheapo knock offs,
printed copies, whatever for a few dollars or less. Millions of people
must buy them, put them in even cheaper frames and hang them in their
living room. But it in no ways cheapens or demeans true masterpieces
created by masters. The lathe is, after all, just a tool. Use if to
make cheap stuff to sell or give as gifts, use it to create
masterpieces. I don't think anybody is going to confuse the two.
Earl

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Earl
 
Posts: n/a
Default Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.

The question almost sounds like a variation of the ol' Arts vs. Crafts
discussions with the implication that we shouldn't do craft because it
cheapens the art. But like it or not, woodturning is both and I don't
see anything wrong with that. Nor do I think it cheapens the more
profound pieces. Look at paintings: you can get cheapo knock offs,
printed copies, whatever for a few dollars or less. Millions of people
must buy them, put them in even cheaper frames and hang them in their
living room. But it in no ways cheapens or demeans true masterpieces
created by masters. The lathe is, after all, just a tool. Use if to
make cheap stuff to sell or give as gifts, use it to create
masterpieces. I don't think anybody is going to confuse the two.
Earl

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George
 
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Default Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.


"Arch" wrote in message
...
Before even tasting, I grind black pepper over light colored food and
shake salt on dark food and so I consume a lot of peppercorns.


Aren't you disrespecting the chef by seasoning or splashing condiments
without tasting the food?

Didja ever wonder if by competing with imported novelties we short
change ourselves and cheapen the woodturning craft/art/hobby/business?
In the long run
does this diminish the public's image of turned wooden objects, hence
lower their expectations of what they should pay us for what we do?


Nope, impulse buying is the same as grinding pepper before you taste.
Doesn't matter if you have cordon bleu or Denny's cuisine, it's what the
customer wants. They're going to pepper it.

There are so many small "pure" turnings to make; ornaments, boxes,
miniatures, bird houses, spurtles, etc. etc. that I wonder why we pander
to mediocrity, if that's what we do when we buy thinly plated, cheaply
made key ring, corkscrew. and pill holder kits? Pens, clocks, bottle
stoppers, and hand mirrors are a diferent matter' They are often
elegant. Anyway they are exempted for my safety.



So you can make your own sauce, or use Prego, either will nourish the body,
both taste about the same when loaded with secondary table seasonings, so
what's the problem? Only one I see is in finding someone with similar
taste, and money too. That's where the Prego or the turned gimmick comes
in. They've done the marketing tests.

If you've got filet, find a location near a steakhouse, if you've got
chicken-fried steak, a honkeytonk. Secret of success.


  #9   Report Post  
Arch
 
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Default Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned'novelties'.

Thanks all, So far, all projects mentioned are exempted and every take
appreciated. The ice hasn't cracked yet, but my pickup's left front door
is open.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

  #10   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.

Hi Arch,

You do bring up some interesting "food for thought" thoughts. : )

I've always wondered why the catalogs keep offering some of the kits
over and over and it must be, like you said, because "we" are buying
them over and over. Personally, bottle stoppers are the only item I
turn that is attached to a piece of metal (and ONLY a quality stainless
steel base that won't pit in red wine!).

These kits for various trendy items are sold to guys who just want to
give someone something they made, something useful while being unique.
This doesn't mean the recipient need actually use the item, just say
"Wow, you made this? Thank you!" And at the shows where turners are
selling these trinkets or items (it's difficult to find a collective
word) most people will buy at least one as a unique gift or for someone
who thinks they have everything or as a stocking stuffer or office
gift. Taking into account the number of people on this planet, I
guess turners could sell these little items continually. Hope this
is clearer to you than it is to me after I reread what I was trying to
say! : )

Take care,
Ruth



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Derek Andrews
 
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Default Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.

Earl wrote:
The question almost sounds like a variation of the ol' Arts vs. Crafts
discussions with the implication that we shouldn't do craft because it
cheapens the art. But like it or not, woodturning is both and I don't
see anything wrong with that. Nor do I think it cheapens the more
profound pieces.


I think it is wrong to characterise these things as 'novelties'. Very
often they help us make functional items that people can use. Perhaps
they could be considered as a means of getting (partly) handcrafted work
into the ownership of people who would otherwise not bother with purely
aesthetic items. I think that is a worthy cause in its own right.

--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
http://chipshop.blogspot.com - a blog for my customers
http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com/TheToolrest/ - a blog for woodturners








  #12   Report Post  
Arch
 
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Default a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.

Hi Ruth, Remember those purple & yellow signs interposed with Burma
Shave wisdom strung out on U.S.1 for miles to go before we rested at a
B. Lloyd's emporium? We bought cotton candy and stale coffee, souvenirs
and post cards of old Florida. Curators of famous museums, the rich and
famous and Ivy League intellectuals also stopped and bought the same
trinkets we did and like us claimed they were presents for the kids.

Those of you who never followed the old Florida 'trails of trash' had
other sources of cheapie chic along other hiways.These beloved emporiums
have all moved to booths in shopping malls and the trinkets have changed
while remaining the same.

Whatever, the urge to buy Cracker Jacks to get the prize and discard the
popcorn is in most of us, so I just answered my own questions, although
I don't know what I said. Maybe someone does?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

  #14   Report Post  
Arch
 
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Default a _long musing about combining bad accessories with goodturnings

Ruth,
I was happy to meet you as a friend and fellow woodturner; a bright
intelligent woman who would understand the question was another of
Arch's OT and boring retellings about things past.
If you had answered, I suspect it would have been a yes or no as you
decided.
***********************************************
As to accessories, whether novel, novelty or trinket: If you want to
make a better bottle stopper, use Ruth's stainless fittings.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

  #15   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default a _long musing about combining bad accessories with good turnings

First, I'd like to thank Chuck for that terrific compliment. By the
way, Chuck, I did find my glasses that I turned the stems but not until
the next day, sorry.

Arch, I really do remember to Berma Shave signs. Of course, I was too
young to read at the time (a lie). Your posts about things past are
rarely "boring", at least not to the majority of us "older" folks, I
can't speak for the "kids" here.

I'm going to have a booth at the show in Lake Yale this January, be
nice to see you again..........without you making a date for lunch and
then standing me up! Explain that one to these guys.

Ruth
www.torne-lignum.com


Arch wrote:
Ruth,
I was happy to meet you as a friend and fellow woodturner; a bright
intelligent woman who would understand the question was another of
Arch's OT and boring retellings about things past.
If you had answered, I suspect it would have been a yes or no as you
decided.
***********************************************
As to accessories, whether novel, novelty or trinket: If you want to
make a better bottle stopper, use Ruth's stainless fittings.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings




  #16   Report Post  
J. Clarke
 
Posts: n/a
Default Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.

Earl wrote:

The question almost sounds like a variation of the ol' Arts vs. Crafts
discussions with the implication that we shouldn't do craft because it
cheapens the art. But like it or not, woodturning is both and I don't
see anything wrong with that. Nor do I think it cheapens the more
profound pieces. Look at paintings: you can get cheapo knock offs,
printed copies, whatever for a few dollars or less. Millions of people
must buy them, put them in even cheaper frames and hang them in their
living room. But it in no ways cheapens or demeans true masterpieces
created by masters. The lathe is, after all, just a tool. Use if to
make cheap stuff to sell or give as gifts, use it to create
masterpieces. I don't think anybody is going to confuse the two.


"Sure, 90% of science fiction is crud. That's because 90% of everything is
crud."--Theodore Sturgeon

Personally I think he was an optimist--how many velvet Elvises are there for
every Mona Lisa?

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
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