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Woodturning (rec.crafts.woodturning) To discuss tools, techniques, styles, materials, shows and competitions, education and educational materials related to woodturning. All skill levels are welcome, from art turners to production turners, beginners to masters. |
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#1
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Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.
Before even tasting, I grind black pepper over light colored food and
shake salt on dark food and so I consume a lot of peppercorns. Lori bought me a new (to me) product; a small bottle of peppercorns with an integral plastic grinder on top. It's the same price as other brands that lack a grinder and so far it really works and looks good enough for our everyday table. I suppose we turners pay much more than she did for quality pepper mill mechanisms and we turn beautiful wooden housings because there's a mystique about aiming a huge overbuilt grinder at a guest's salad or mashed potatoes, and so the public will buy our mills. Same with many other accessories that we buy and add to our turnings (or add our turnings to the accessory) for both show and blow and hopefully profit. There are kaleidoscopes, egg stands, bells and light pulls. Devices for making tea lights, oil candles, night lights, votive cups and confetti lights are available; so are neck chains, egg timers, toothpick dispensers, and candy jars, not to mention shaving brushes. They are offered in stores and catalogs and many feel some sort of urge to buy them. We decorate or incorporate them with wood turnings and compete with chainstore imports for sales. I reckon that turned objects decorated and enabled by storebought mechanisms and accessories must have cash value and/or satisfy woodturners; else why do so many make them? Kits and such stuff wouldn't be offered if we didn't buy them. I hope this is a fair question to ask without upsetting anyone. Velvet paintings, pipestem objects, whirleygigs and pink flamingos all have a place somewhere. I take no position about them; art and vulgarity being in the eye of each beholder and all that. So...., do you think the sorts of small craft that depend on novel external accessories or kits are turned to help pay the bills or to satisfy to some extent, our need to use our hands? ....or for what other reasons? Didja ever wonder if by competing with imported novelties we short change ourselves and cheapen the woodturning craft/art/hobby/business? In the long run does this diminish the public's image of turned wooden objects, hence lower their expectations of what they should pay us for what we do? There are so many small "pure" turnings to make; ornaments, boxes, miniatures, bird houses, spurtles, etc. etc. that I wonder why we pander to mediocrity, if that's what we do when we buy thinly plated, cheaply made key ring, corkscrew. and pill holder kits? Pens, clocks, bottle stoppers, and hand mirrors are a diferent matter' They are often elegant. Anyway they are exempted for my safety. I admit to a preference for making or owning a wood turning that is all wood and stands alone, but I have to admit that I sometimes incorporate do-dads from thrift shops into or onto my turnings. You can't make a table lamp without a socket, but you can make a candlestick without a metal cup. While I'm inquiring; do women or for that matter men, really hang their earrings on a turned ebony stand or take a pink ivory basting brush to their Thanksgiving turkey while relieving their itch with a beautiful bird's eye back scratcher turned from a kit? After all this tedious musing while skirting the edge of unintentional insults to friends and fellow turners, I'm still the same miserable ole COC, but .........OTOH! Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
#2
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Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.
Evenin" Arch:
While I do NOT turn the Plethora of dodads out there, I do turn and sell Kaleidoscopes. I don't feel that I compete with the "offshore" product. I sell the Kaleidoscopes for $35.00 to $40.00! Definitely NOT the cheap variety. I sell quite a few. As a matter of fact, they usually make a mundane show a winner! The Other Bruce ================================================== ============ Arch wrote: Before even tasting, I grind black pepper over light colored food and shake salt on dark food and so I consume a lot of peppercorns. Lori bought me a new (to me) product; a small bottle of peppercorns with an integral plastic grinder on top. It's the same price as other brands that lack a grinder and so far it really works and looks good enough for our everyday table. I suppose we turners pay much more than she did for quality pepper mill mechanisms and we turn beautiful wooden housings because there's a mystique about aiming a huge overbuilt grinder at a guest's salad or mashed potatoes, and so the public will buy our mills. Same with many other accessories that we buy and add to our turnings (or add our turnings to the accessory) for both show and blow and hopefully profit. There are kaleidoscopes, egg stands, bells and light pulls. Devices for making tea lights, oil candles, night lights, votive cups and confetti lights are available; so are neck chains, egg timers, toothpick dispensers, and candy jars, not to mention shaving brushes. They are offered in stores and catalogs and many feel some sort of urge to buy them. We decorate or incorporate them with wood turnings and compete with chainstore imports for sales. I reckon that turned objects decorated and enabled by storebought mechanisms and accessories must have cash value and/or satisfy woodturners; else why do so many make them? Kits and such stuff wouldn't be offered if we didn't buy them. I hope this is a fair question to ask without upsetting anyone. Velvet paintings, pipestem objects, whirleygigs and pink flamingos all have a place somewhere. I take no position about them; art and vulgarity being in the eye of each beholder and all that. So...., do you think the sorts of small craft that depend on novel external accessories or kits are turned to help pay the bills or to satisfy to some extent, our need to use our hands? ....or for what other reasons? Didja ever wonder if by competing with imported novelties we short change ourselves and cheapen the woodturning craft/art/hobby/business? In the long run does this diminish the public's image of turned wooden objects, hence lower their expectations of what they should pay us for what we do? There are so many small "pure" turnings to make; ornaments, boxes, miniatures, bird houses, spurtles, etc. etc. that I wonder why we pander to mediocrity, if that's what we do when we buy thinly plated, cheaply made key ring, corkscrew. and pill holder kits? Pens, clocks, bottle stoppers, and hand mirrors are a diferent matter' They are often elegant. Anyway they are exempted for my safety. I admit to a preference for making or owning a wood turning that is all wood and stands alone, but I have to admit that I sometimes incorporate do-dads from thrift shops into or onto my turnings. You can't make a table lamp without a socket, but you can make a candlestick without a metal cup. While I'm inquiring; do women or for that matter men, really hang their earrings on a turned ebony stand or take a pink ivory basting brush to their Thanksgiving turkey while relieving their itch with a beautiful bird's eye back scratcher turned from a kit? After all this tedious musing while skirting the edge of unintentional insults to friends and fellow turners, I'm still the same miserable ole COC, but .........OTOH! Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
#3
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Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned'novelties'.
Hi Bruce, Thanks for responding. For you, I'll exempt kaleidoscopes. I
bet there will be others. Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
#4
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Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.
Well Archibald, you are getting to be a bit more sly in your musings.
Walking a finer line that in musings past... being a little more sensitive (and verbose!) in your wonderings. I am sure many appreciate your new found tact, but for me Knock it off!! Where is the "hey, what the hell is going on here" thread we used to see every once in a while? As far as cheapening turning... I dunno. I make votive candle holders, traditional oil lamps (the big early american looking things) as well as oil candles. (Hey... why does all the stuff I turn have the abilty to play with fire?) I turn them because they look traditional, and I generally sell all that I can make, within reason of course. I like the look of the things, and I spend a lot of time and effort to come up with that nice blank, and orient it the way I want on the lathe. I get a lot of compliments because of the simplicity of design and the work I put in wood selection and finishing. However, 8 - 9 years ago, I made pens like crazy. Why? I sold them to pay for the lathe, the tools, and all the other damn stuff I thought I needed to turn. I sold my Parker style pens for $65 - $75 bucks all day long. I spent a long time making each pen, and fit the wood to the kit with my dial calipers, not fitting the barrels to the bushings. The fit and finish were as good as I could make them. I had each pen laser engraved with the purchaser's name, and put them in a presentation box with instructions on how to take care of their writing instrument. I never, ever, once looked at the guys that were begging to sell their pens for $12 - $35 dollars as my competition. While I don't do that anymore, I saw it as a means to an end. Perfume vials sell because they are a thoughtful, handmade gift for a husband to make a wife. Same with mirrors. I made one egg timer, and I play with it while I am on the phone, and it has made a great conversation piece for my clients sitting on my desk. I bore easily. So when I make my annual Craft Supplies "here come the holidays" I always take a look at what they have and make an effort to try something new. This year, I am going to make some wine stoppers. I have a friend that is a true afficionado, and he will be thrilled to have a Cocobolo stopper with his initials burned on the end. For me personally, I don't like much of that stuff. Although I must say... I do love my 14" rosewood barbeque brush. But for gifts, that stuff is hard to beat. And I think that in this day and age of people that buy everything and make little, a gift that even hints at handmade is a welcome change from the norm. And ponder this: if you are not familiar with woodworking, or in this particular case, woodturning, think how special it would be to receive one of those wonderful peppermills handmade for you by one of your buddies that noticed your affection for pepper. Would it be a keepsake, or an annoying gewgaw? Robert |
#6
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Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.
The question almost sounds like a variation of the ol' Arts vs. Crafts
discussions with the implication that we shouldn't do craft because it cheapens the art. But like it or not, woodturning is both and I don't see anything wrong with that. Nor do I think it cheapens the more profound pieces. Look at paintings: you can get cheapo knock offs, printed copies, whatever for a few dollars or less. Millions of people must buy them, put them in even cheaper frames and hang them in their living room. But it in no ways cheapens or demeans true masterpieces created by masters. The lathe is, after all, just a tool. Use if to make cheap stuff to sell or give as gifts, use it to create masterpieces. I don't think anybody is going to confuse the two. Earl |
#7
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Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.
The question almost sounds like a variation of the ol' Arts vs. Crafts
discussions with the implication that we shouldn't do craft because it cheapens the art. But like it or not, woodturning is both and I don't see anything wrong with that. Nor do I think it cheapens the more profound pieces. Look at paintings: you can get cheapo knock offs, printed copies, whatever for a few dollars or less. Millions of people must buy them, put them in even cheaper frames and hang them in their living room. But it in no ways cheapens or demeans true masterpieces created by masters. The lathe is, after all, just a tool. Use if to make cheap stuff to sell or give as gifts, use it to create masterpieces. I don't think anybody is going to confuse the two. Earl |
#8
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Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.
"Arch" wrote in message ... Before even tasting, I grind black pepper over light colored food and shake salt on dark food and so I consume a lot of peppercorns. Aren't you disrespecting the chef by seasoning or splashing condiments without tasting the food? Didja ever wonder if by competing with imported novelties we short change ourselves and cheapen the woodturning craft/art/hobby/business? In the long run does this diminish the public's image of turned wooden objects, hence lower their expectations of what they should pay us for what we do? Nope, impulse buying is the same as grinding pepper before you taste. Doesn't matter if you have cordon bleu or Denny's cuisine, it's what the customer wants. They're going to pepper it. There are so many small "pure" turnings to make; ornaments, boxes, miniatures, bird houses, spurtles, etc. etc. that I wonder why we pander to mediocrity, if that's what we do when we buy thinly plated, cheaply made key ring, corkscrew. and pill holder kits? Pens, clocks, bottle stoppers, and hand mirrors are a diferent matter' They are often elegant. Anyway they are exempted for my safety. So you can make your own sauce, or use Prego, either will nourish the body, both taste about the same when loaded with secondary table seasonings, so what's the problem? Only one I see is in finding someone with similar taste, and money too. That's where the Prego or the turned gimmick comes in. They've done the marketing tests. If you've got filet, find a location near a steakhouse, if you've got chicken-fried steak, a honkeytonk. Secret of success. |
#9
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Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned'novelties'.
Thanks all, So far, all projects mentioned are exempted and every take
appreciated. The ice hasn't cracked yet, but my pickup's left front door is open. Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
#10
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Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.
Hi Arch,
You do bring up some interesting "food for thought" thoughts. : ) I've always wondered why the catalogs keep offering some of the kits over and over and it must be, like you said, because "we" are buying them over and over. Personally, bottle stoppers are the only item I turn that is attached to a piece of metal (and ONLY a quality stainless steel base that won't pit in red wine!). These kits for various trendy items are sold to guys who just want to give someone something they made, something useful while being unique. This doesn't mean the recipient need actually use the item, just say "Wow, you made this? Thank you!" And at the shows where turners are selling these trinkets or items (it's difficult to find a collective word) most people will buy at least one as a unique gift or for someone who thinks they have everything or as a stocking stuffer or office gift. Taking into account the number of people on this planet, I guess turners could sell these little items continually. Hope this is clearer to you than it is to me after I reread what I was trying to say! : ) Take care, Ruth |
#11
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Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.
Earl wrote:
The question almost sounds like a variation of the ol' Arts vs. Crafts discussions with the implication that we shouldn't do craft because it cheapens the art. But like it or not, woodturning is both and I don't see anything wrong with that. Nor do I think it cheapens the more profound pieces. I think it is wrong to characterise these things as 'novelties'. Very often they help us make functional items that people can use. Perhaps they could be considered as a means of getting (partly) handcrafted work into the ownership of people who would otherwise not bother with purely aesthetic items. I think that is a worthy cause in its own right. -- Derek Andrews, woodturner http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com http://chipshop.blogspot.com - a blog for my customers http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com/TheToolrest/ - a blog for woodturners |
#12
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a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.
Hi Ruth, Remember those purple & yellow signs interposed with Burma
Shave wisdom strung out on U.S.1 for miles to go before we rested at a B. Lloyd's emporium? We bought cotton candy and stale coffee, souvenirs and post cards of old Florida. Curators of famous museums, the rich and famous and Ivy League intellectuals also stopped and bought the same trinkets we did and like us claimed they were presents for the kids. Those of you who never followed the old Florida 'trails of trash' had other sources of cheapie chic along other hiways.These beloved emporiums have all moved to booths in shopping malls and the trinkets have changed while remaining the same. Whatever, the urge to buy Cracker Jacks to get the prize and discard the popcorn is in most of us, so I just answered my own questions, although I don't know what I said. Maybe someone does? Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
#13
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a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 10:02:48 -0500, (Arch) wrote:
Hi Ruth, Remember those purple & yellow signs interposed with Burma Shave wisdom strung out on U.S.1 for miles to go before we rested at a B. Lloyd's emporium? Ruth, say "NO!" I've met you, you're far too young to remember them!! -- Chuck *#:^) chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply. September 11, 2001 - Never Forget ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#14
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a _long musing about combining bad accessories with goodturnings
Ruth,
I was happy to meet you as a friend and fellow woodturner; a bright intelligent woman who would understand the question was another of Arch's OT and boring retellings about things past. If you had answered, I suspect it would have been a yes or no as you decided. *********************************************** As to accessories, whether novel, novelty or trinket: If you want to make a better bottle stopper, use Ruth's stainless fittings. Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
#15
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a _long musing about combining bad accessories with good turnings
First, I'd like to thank Chuck for that terrific compliment. By the
way, Chuck, I did find my glasses that I turned the stems but not until the next day, sorry. Arch, I really do remember to Berma Shave signs. Of course, I was too young to read at the time (a lie). Your posts about things past are rarely "boring", at least not to the majority of us "older" folks, I can't speak for the "kids" here. I'm going to have a booth at the show in Lake Yale this January, be nice to see you again..........without you making a date for lunch and then standing me up! Explain that one to these guys. Ruth www.torne-lignum.com Arch wrote: Ruth, I was happy to meet you as a friend and fellow woodturner; a bright intelligent woman who would understand the question was another of Arch's OT and boring retellings about things past. If you had answered, I suspect it would have been a yes or no as you decided. *********************************************** As to accessories, whether novel, novelty or trinket: If you want to make a better bottle stopper, use Ruth's stainless fittings. Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
#16
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Skating on thin ice with a _long musing about turned 'novelties'.
Earl wrote:
The question almost sounds like a variation of the ol' Arts vs. Crafts discussions with the implication that we shouldn't do craft because it cheapens the art. But like it or not, woodturning is both and I don't see anything wrong with that. Nor do I think it cheapens the more profound pieces. Look at paintings: you can get cheapo knock offs, printed copies, whatever for a few dollars or less. Millions of people must buy them, put them in even cheaper frames and hang them in their living room. But it in no ways cheapens or demeans true masterpieces created by masters. The lathe is, after all, just a tool. Use if to make cheap stuff to sell or give as gifts, use it to create masterpieces. I don't think anybody is going to confuse the two. "Sure, 90% of science fiction is crud. That's because 90% of everything is crud."--Theodore Sturgeon Personally I think he was an optimist--how many velvet Elvises are there for every Mona Lisa? -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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