Woodturning (rec.crafts.woodturning) To discuss tools, techniques, styles, materials, shows and competitions, education and educational materials related to woodturning. All skill levels are welcome, from art turners to production turners, beginners to masters.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default Making a higher gloss friction polish

I am made some of Bonnie Klien's homemade friction polish using equal
parts of: Zisner bullseye 3lb cut shellac, rubbing alcohol, and boiled
linseed oil. This mix does not produce a very high gloss finish and I
am looking for advice on what to add or change proportion to make a
higher gloss.

Thanks,

Jay

  #3   Report Post  
Martin Rost
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote in message
ups.com...
I am made some of Bonnie Klien's homemade friction polish using equal
parts of: Zisner bullseye 3lb cut shellac, rubbing alcohol, and boiled
linseed oil. This mix does not produce a very high gloss finish and I
am looking for advice on what to add or change proportion to make a
higher gloss.

Thanks,

Jay


Jay,
That mixture works ok, and should easily give you a high gloss finish.
I prefer to use less oil and more alcohol in the mix, though I don't
actually measure. How are you applying the finish? Are you fingers getting
hot or at least very warm? For a high gloss finish the wood should be
sanded to at least 320 grit, but this varies with the wood. If you don't
see some shine off of the wood, it will be more difficult to get a high
gloss finish.
I just re-read your post and see that you are using rubbing alcohol, I
use denatured alcohol. The rubbing alcohol I've seen is typically 70%
alcohol, the rest water. Even if it is 100%, you might consider trying
denatured.
The only problem I have is with the center of a bowl where the linear
speed is near zero and it is difficult getting enough heat built up.
Are there any other symptoms or observations besides not glossy enough?
Hope this helps
Martin


  #5   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You may be having two problems. The first may be the Rubbing Alcohol.
The commercial rubbing alcohols are Isoproply Alcohol that are only 70%
alcohol, the rest being water. Water in combination with the oil, and
the wax that may be in the in shellac will make for a finish that is
soft with no gloss and a very short life. Better to use a good quality
of Denatured Alcohol, Everclear from the liquor store, or buy reagent
grade (99% purity) Isopropl from the pharmacist. Denatured is the
cheapest source. Alcohol will absorb a lot of moisture from the air, so
buy a small can, keep it closed, and store in a dry place.

The common problem with all friction polishes is one of application.
The objective is to lay down a film of pure uncontaminated shellac on
the wood surface. You are using a mixture of thinned shellac, oil,
water (from the alcohol), and wax from the shellac. Some commercial
friction polishes have added more wax to make them easier to apply. The
application must generate enough heat to bring all of these
contaminants to the surface where they can either evaporate or be
picked up by the application rag. That requires finger burning hot. Hot
enough that you will need a thicker pad under your fingers. Failing to
do this, the contaminants remain in the finish and it will be soft and
dull. I have articles on using Friction Polishes, and finishing pens
and small things that might be useful to you on my Website at
http://www.woodturnerruss.com/FinishingSecrets.html



  #6   Report Post  
Arch
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Russ,

Thanks for one more helpful post from an old friend of rcw and a teacher
who is an accomplished and experienced turner. You haven't been on rcw
for a while and newcomers may not know how much sage and usable advice
you have given to this ng. If Russ says it, I believe it!

I heard that you are getting out a finishing video. Tell us about it and
please mention for new members, your other worthwhile teaching
endeavors; website, Russ' Corner, videos, lessons and demos. We
Floridians miss you. It was great belonging to the same club as you &
Mel Lindquist and Read living nearby.

btw, 70% alcohol was chosen because it is the most efficient
concentration for killing bacteria and sadly choosing 60Hz sine waves
assured the most efficient electrical power for killing people. (ie.
for producing v. fib.)


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

  #7   Report Post  
Kevin
 
Posts: n/a
Default

A bit of clarification or explantion for me please. I use the Zisner
shellac & mix it equal parts shellac, denatured alcohol, and BLO. I apply
perhaps 4 coats allowing each coat to dry for perhaps 8 hours and then sand
with 400 or 600 between. The finish comes out rather well. Now when I
apply and go for a "finger-burning hot" I have serious problems with the
wood cracking - small cracks. I do use green wood 2.5" thick. It has laid
outside, not covered but off the ground for about a year. I bring it into
by rather dry basement and there it will sit for perhaps another week or
two. Would the cracking be the end-result of using green wood or is some
other agency at woik here?



wrote in message
ups.com...
You may be having two problems. The first may be the Rubbing Alcohol.
The commercial rubbing alcohols are Isoproply Alcohol that are only 70%
alcohol, the rest being water. Water in combination with the oil, and
the wax that may be in the in shellac will make for a finish that is
soft with no gloss and a very short life. Better to use a good quality
of Denatured Alcohol, Everclear from the liquor store, or buy reagent
grade (99% purity) Isopropl from the pharmacist. Denatured is the
cheapest source. Alcohol will absorb a lot of moisture from the air, so
buy a small can, keep it closed, and store in a dry place.

The common problem with all friction polishes is one of application.
The objective is to lay down a film of pure uncontaminated shellac on
the wood surface. You are using a mixture of thinned shellac, oil,
water (from the alcohol), and wax from the shellac. Some commercial
friction polishes have added more wax to make them easier to apply. The
application must generate enough heat to bring all of these
contaminants to the surface where they can either evaporate or be
picked up by the application rag. That requires finger burning hot. Hot
enough that you will need a thicker pad under your fingers. Failing to
do this, the contaminants remain in the finish and it will be soft and
dull. I have articles on using Friction Polishes, and finishing pens
and small things that might be useful to you on my Website at
http://www.woodturnerruss.com/FinishingSecrets.html



  #8   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default


I agree with all that have posted so far. Go to your paint store and
you can get denatured alcohol for $7 a GALLON. This should last you a
while making small batches of finish.

Using that basic formula of Ms. Klein, I also use less oil, about 1/2
the regular measure. It seems to work better for me.

I do have something that was pointed out to me that really helped me
with this finish. First, flood the area with the BK finish and allow
it to get really sticky, almost dry. Then charge up your applicator
with more finish and start burning it in. You should see it turning to
glass about the time it is getting difficult to keep a small applicator
in place.

I wait about an hour or so, then rechuck and buff with a soft cloth
then burn on some Carnauba. Works like a champ. Glassy, deep, wet
looking finishes can be built up with multiple coats of BK finish
before waxing. Not my taste, but it sells my lamp pulls.

BTW, you should also know that this finish is not so hot for really
porous or poorly sanded woods. As mentioned above you need to get the
surface really smooth to close the pores.

Robert

  #9   Report Post  
George
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Kevin" wrote in message
...
A bit of clarification or explantion for me please. I use the Zisner
shellac & mix it equal parts shellac, denatured alcohol, and BLO. I apply
perhaps 4 coats allowing each coat to dry for perhaps 8 hours and then

sand
with 400 or 600 between. The finish comes out rather well. Now when I
apply and go for a "finger-burning hot" I have serious problems with the
wood cracking - small cracks. I do use green wood 2.5" thick. It has

laid
outside, not covered but off the ground for about a year. I bring it into
by rather dry basement and there it will sit for perhaps another week or
two. Would the cracking be the end-result of using green wood or is some
other agency at woik here?



All wood is moist to some extent unless it's oven dried to zero and worked
immediately. You're creating the oven with friction, drying the wood from
its ~10% moisture content to near zero. Same thing happens with sanding
heat. You energize those bound moisture molecules and they'll find a way
out, allowing the fibers to pack more closely - shrink.

I use a mock French polish for my final. Shellac with ethanol for high
evaporation rate, a soft cloth and a drop of _non-curing_ oil as
lubrication. Object is _no_ friction, just a spread of the thinnest of
coats which dry almost instantly. Staying in one place only softens the
previous coats, so keep it moving. Slow alcohol like isopropyl is for
brushing. Gives you a two-second wet edge rather than a one-second, and a
chance for a heavier coat to level.

Though Russ didn't mention it, water, its analog polar solvent alcohol, and
oil find separate places in the wood. If you want the effect the oil gives
you, use a curing oil under shellac. If you want a lubricant, I prefer a
non-curing oil, which is easier to draw up and spirit off.


  #11   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

As Arch said, it has been a long time since I have posted a message on
the RCW Newsgroup. I just now discovered that it is still alive, but
has moved.

If you want to know who I am, you can go to my website at

http://www.woodturner-russ.com/

Arch asked about my new video on finishing turned wood. It is completed
and available. You can see what it is about by clicking on "Finishing
Secrets" on the site menu at the above address, or go there directly at

http://www.woodturner-russ.com/Finis...retsVideo.html

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aquatech Gloss not opaque after 1 undercoat 1 gloss coat. Glidden Trade acrylic. [email protected] UK diy 5 May 12th 05 12:50 PM
Friction Polish Martin Rost Woodturning 9 March 14th 05 12:52 AM
Cognitive Friction and Woodworking Tools charlie b Woodworking 4 March 6th 05 07:22 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:58 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"