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  #1   Report Post  
Graeme
 
Posts: n/a
Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

Hi

I'm going to level an old chipboard bathroom floor prior to fitting vinyl
tiles. The existing floor is sound but quite uneven. My plan was to use a
self-levelling compound then 6mm ply, followed by the tiles. Question: I'm
pretty sure I need a compound that has some flexibility and one that isn't
water based, but should I therefor get an acrylic one or a latex one? And,
where from? Would 47264 from screwfix do the job?

I've already been advised that the best way to do this would be to remove
the old floor and lay a new one. Not my cup of tea that!


  #2   Report Post  
The Natural Philosopher
 
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Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

Graeme wrote:

Hi

I'm going to level an old chipboard bathroom floor prior to fitting vinyl
tiles. The existing floor is sound but quite uneven. My plan was to use a
self-levelling compound then 6mm ply, followed by the tiles. Question: I'm
pretty sure I need a compound that has some flexibility and one that isn't
water based, but should I therefor get an acrylic one or a latex one? And,
where from? Would 47264 from screwfix do the job?

I've already been advised that the best way to do this would be to remove
the old floor and lay a new one. Not my cup of tea that!


Since you are plying on top I can't see it matters a hoot as long as the
levelling does not break up and crumble to dust.

All you are essentially doing is filling a gap between a smooth level
piece of ply and a naff old chipboard floor.

Tempted to say squirt some expanding foam on the floor and flop the
plywood down on top.

Or mount the plywood using whatever spacers are needed, having
pre-drilled it with holes big enough to get a foam nozzle in, and foam
it after screwing it down.

Sand off any mushrooms that erupt afterwards :-)

Hmm. I have to construct a custom shower tray. I think I have discovered
how to do it now...


  #3   Report Post  
Lobster
 
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Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

"Graeme" wrote in message ...
I'm going to level an old chipboard bathroom floor prior to fitting vinyl
tiles. The existing floor is sound but quite uneven. My plan was to use a
self-levelling compound then 6mm ply, followed by the tiles. Question: I'm
pretty sure I need a compound that has some flexibility and one that isn't
water based, but should I therefor get an acrylic one or a latex one? And,
where from? Would 47264 from screwfix do the job?


Do you really need to use the self-levelling compound before laying
the ply? I'd have thought that providing you use loads of screws to
hold down the ply (ie, at say 6" spacing in each direction all over
the floor), then the leveller would be overkill?

David
  #4   Report Post  
Graeme
 
Posts: n/a
Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Graeme wrote:

Hi

I'm going to level an old chipboard bathroom floor prior to fitting

vinyl
tiles. The existing floor is sound but quite uneven. My plan was to use

a
self-levelling compound then 6mm ply, followed by the tiles. Question:

I'm
pretty sure I need a compound that has some flexibility and one that

isn't
water based, but should I therefor get an acrylic one or a latex one?

And,
where from? Would 47264 from screwfix do the job?

I've already been advised that the best way to do this would be to

remove
the old floor and lay a new one. Not my cup of tea that!


Since you are plying on top I can't see it matters a hoot as long as the
levelling does not break up and crumble to dust.

All you are essentially doing is filling a gap between a smooth level
piece of ply and a naff old chipboard floor.

Tempted to say squirt some expanding foam on the floor and flop the
plywood down on top.

Or mount the plywood using whatever spacers are needed, having
pre-drilled it with holes big enough to get a foam nozzle in, and foam
it after screwing it down.

Sand off any mushrooms that erupt afterwards :-)

Hmm. I have to construct a custom shower tray. I think I have discovered
how to do it now...


I've never used expanding foam. How hard does it set? I imagine it to be
like polystyrene, but am probably totally wrong.


  #5   Report Post  
Graeme
 
Posts: n/a
Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

"Lobster" wrote in message
om...
"Graeme" wrote in message

...
I'm going to level an old chipboard bathroom floor prior to fitting

vinyl
tiles. The existing floor is sound but quite uneven. My plan was to use

a
self-levelling compound then 6mm ply, followed by the tiles. Question:

I'm
pretty sure I need a compound that has some flexibility and one that

isn't
water based, but should I therefor get an acrylic one or a latex one?

And,
where from? Would 47264 from screwfix do the job?


Do you really need to use the self-levelling compound before laying
the ply? I'd have thought that providing you use loads of screws to
hold down the ply (ie, at say 6" spacing in each direction all over
the floor), then the leveller would be overkill?


I'm just aiming for a perfectly flat floor. Without some sort of
filler/levelling compound, the ply will show the undulations that are in the
existing chipboard.




  #6   Report Post  
The Natural Philosopher
 
Posts: n/a
Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

Graeme wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

Graeme wrote:


Hi

I'm going to level an old chipboard bathroom floor prior to fitting


vinyl

tiles. The existing floor is sound but quite uneven. My plan was to use


a

self-levelling compound then 6mm ply, followed by the tiles. Question:


I'm

pretty sure I need a compound that has some flexibility and one that


isn't

water based, but should I therefor get an acrylic one or a latex one?


And,

where from? Would 47264 from screwfix do the job?

I've already been advised that the best way to do this would be to


remove

the old floor and lay a new one. Not my cup of tea that!



Since you are plying on top I can't see it matters a hoot as long as the
levelling does not break up and crumble to dust.

All you are essentially doing is filling a gap between a smooth level
piece of ply and a naff old chipboard floor.

Tempted to say squirt some expanding foam on the floor and flop the
plywood down on top.

Or mount the plywood using whatever spacers are needed, having
pre-drilled it with holes big enough to get a foam nozzle in, and foam
it after screwing it down.

Sand off any mushrooms that erupt afterwards :-)

Hmm. I have to construct a custom shower tray. I think I have discovered
how to do it now...



I've never used expanding foam. How hard does it set? I imagine it to be
like polystyrene, but am probably totally wrong.


No, pretty much right, in that a stiletto heel sinks right in, but you
can and do lay concrete floors over the stuff - the secret is to spread
the load evenly, which the ply will do. Once the tiles are n it will
stiffen up even more.

If you have handled blue or pink high density foam, that's pretty much
what expanding foam sets like. Especially in confined spaces where it
can't bubble as much as it would like.


  #7   Report Post  
The Natural Philosopher
 
Posts: n/a
Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

Graeme wrote:

"Lobster" wrote in message
om...

"Graeme" wrote in message


...

I'm going to level an old chipboard bathroom floor prior to fitting


vinyl

tiles. The existing floor is sound but quite uneven. My plan was to use


a

self-levelling compound then 6mm ply, followed by the tiles. Question:


I'm

pretty sure I need a compound that has some flexibility and one that


isn't

water based, but should I therefor get an acrylic one or a latex one?


And,

where from? Would 47264 from screwfix do the job?


Do you really need to use the self-levelling compound before laying
the ply? I'd have thought that providing you use loads of screws to
hold down the ply (ie, at say 6" spacing in each direction all over
the floor), then the leveller would be overkill?



I'm just aiming for a perfectly flat floor. Without some sort of
filler/levelling compound, the ply will show the undulations that are in the
existing chipboard.



Yes, which is why you would normally set battens up and adjust them
to the floor variation before screwing the ply down.

If the ply is thick enough I reckon the foam idea is good.




  #8   Report Post  
Graeme
 
Posts: n/a
Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Graeme wrote:

"Lobster" wrote in message
om...

"Graeme" wrote in message


...

I'm going to level an old chipboard bathroom floor prior to fitting


vinyl

tiles. The existing floor is sound but quite uneven. My plan was to use


a

self-levelling compound then 6mm ply, followed by the tiles. Question:


I'm

pretty sure I need a compound that has some flexibility and one that


isn't

water based, but should I therefor get an acrylic one or a latex one?


And,

where from? Would 47264 from screwfix do the job?

Do you really need to use the self-levelling compound before laying
the ply? I'd have thought that providing you use loads of screws to
hold down the ply (ie, at say 6" spacing in each direction all over
the floor), then the leveller would be overkill?



I'm just aiming for a perfectly flat floor. Without some sort of
filler/levelling compound, the ply will show the undulations that are in

the
existing chipboard.



Yes, which is why you would normally set battens up and adjust them
to the floor variation before screwing the ply down.

If the ply is thick enough I reckon the foam idea is good.


It's just 6mm ply.

What about PVA mixed with sand (seriously!)? Isn't that all the latex
screeds are anyway. All I need is a filler that is slightly flexible, won't
crumble to dust, and is reasonably good in compression.


  #9   Report Post  
adder
 
Posts: n/a
Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

"Graeme" wrote in message
I'm just aiming for a perfectly flat floor. Without some sort of
filler/levelling compound, the ply will show the undulations that are in the
existing chipboard.



Here's what you do - get a circular saw, cut around the perimeter of
the bathroom floor, buy some WBP ply same thickness as the chip, cut
it to size and install in the hole you created. Job done.
  #10   Report Post  
Graeme
 
Posts: n/a
Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

"adder" wrote in message
om...
"Graeme" wrote in message
I'm just aiming for a perfectly flat floor. Without some sort of
filler/levelling compound, the ply will show the undulations that are in

the
existing chipboard.



Here's what you do - get a circular saw, cut around the perimeter of
the bathroom floor, buy some WBP ply same thickness as the chip, cut
it to size and install in the hole you created. Job done.


A cunning plan!
Let me think about that one.




  #11   Report Post  
The Natural Philosopher
 
Posts: n/a
Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

Graeme wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

Graeme wrote:


"Lobster" wrote in message
e.com...


"Graeme" wrote in message

...


I'm going to level an old chipboard bathroom floor prior to fitting

vinyl


tiles. The existing floor is sound but quite uneven. My plan was to use

a


self-levelling compound then 6mm ply, followed by the tiles. Question:

I'm


pretty sure I need a compound that has some flexibility and one that

isn't


water based, but should I therefor get an acrylic one or a latex one?

And,


where from? Would 47264 from screwfix do the job?

Do you really need to use the self-levelling compound before laying
the ply? I'd have thought that providing you use loads of screws to
hold down the ply (ie, at say 6" spacing in each direction all over
the floor), then the leveller would be overkill?


I'm just aiming for a perfectly flat floor. Without some sort of
filler/levelling compound, the ply will show the undulations that are in


the

existing chipboard.



Yes, which is why you would normally set battens up and adjust them
to the floor variation before screwing the ply down.

If the ply is thick enough I reckon the foam idea is good.



It's just 6mm ply.

What about PVA mixed with sand (seriously!)? Isn't that all the latex
screeds are anyway. All I need is a filler that is slightly flexible, won't
crumble to dust, and is reasonably good in compression.


Exactly. Up to you then. I'd still use foam or levelling compound tho -
no actually in my case I'd use a load of flexible tile cement I have
left over :-)

Any old flexible set gap filling cheap ****e.




  #12   Report Post  
Michael Mcneil
 
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Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

Have either of you chimps ever heard of snipping your posts?

If not, can you make a guess as to why it is a courtesy on newsgroups to
do so?


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
  #13   Report Post  
Graeme
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT: Acrylic or Latex based screed?

"Michael Mcneil" wrote in message
news:3d377a83579c80c6b1f27eb8da48e4f1.45219@mygate .mailgate.org...
Have either of you chimps ever heard of snipping your posts?

If not, can you make a guess as to why it is a courtesy on newsgroups to
do so?


Ooohh! Who rattled your cage then? ;-)
As someone who has posted blatant OT subjects without OT: in the subject
line, and added comments to very long unsnipped posts, you're unlikely to be
the best person to be calling the kettle black !


  #14   Report Post  
Graeme
 
Posts: n/a
Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

"Graeme" wrote in message
...
"Michael Mcneil" wrote in message
news:3d377a83579c80c6b1f27eb8da48e4f1.45219@mygate .mailgate.org...
Have either of you chimps ever heard of snipping your posts?

If not, can you make a guess as to why it is a courtesy on newsgroups to
do so?


Ooohh! Who rattled your cage then? ;-)
As someone who has posted blatant OT subjects without OT: in the subject
line, and added comments to very long unsnipped posts, you're unlikely to

be
the best person to be calling the kettle black !


I take some of that back, the bit about you making unsinpped postingings.
Sorry.


  #15   Report Post  
N. Thornton
 
Posts: n/a
Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

"Graeme" wrote in message ...
"adder" wrote in message
om...
"Graeme" wrote in message
I'm just aiming for a perfectly flat floor. Without some sort of
filler/levelling compound, the ply will show the undulations that are in

the
existing chipboard.



Here's what you do - get a circular saw, cut around the perimeter of
the bathroom floor, buy some WBP ply same thickness as the chip, cut
it to size and install in the hole you created. Job done.


A cunning plan!
Let me think about that one.



exactly. as you said initially you were advised to replace the floor.
The other bodges mentioned in this thread are recipes for trouble.

Expanding foam expands with remarkable force, as I found to my
consternation Sticking it under ply is obviously something the
recommenders have not tried. At least the results would give us all a
laugh

Tiles onto 6mm ply... come on be serious. Tiles need a _very_ rigid
surface. The thicker the wood flooring you use the better. I would
choose at a minimum 1". Grout between tiling edge and walls should be
silicone. If you want a perfect job I'd pack the top of any joists
that sag below the others.


Any kind of cement type filler used in the thinness suggested is going
to disintegrate. 6mm ply offers no rigidity or support. If the chip
floor's uneven the odds are its liable to move as well. That whole
ideas a total mess.


Regards, NT


  #16   Report Post  
Graeme
 
Posts: n/a
Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

Tiles onto 6mm ply... come on be serious. Tiles need a _very_ rigid
surface. The thicker the wood flooring you use the better. I would
choose at a minimum 1". Grout between tiling edge and walls should be
silicone. If you want a perfect job I'd pack the top of any joists
that sag below the others.


These are only vinyl tiles, not ceramic.

Any kind of cement type filler used in the thinness suggested is going
to disintegrate. 6mm ply offers no rigidity or support. If the chip
floor's uneven the odds are its liable to move as well. That whole
ideas a total mess.


Well, I've evened out most of the chip's undulations (removed the peaks), so
the only places that need 'filler' are on one edge. A bit of glue and the
6mm ply with a couple of dozen screws and that should be fine.

We did get quotes to lay these tiles, and they all (3) suggested 6mm ply,
filler and screws.


  #17   Report Post  
The Natural Philosopher
 
Posts: n/a
Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

N. Thornton wrote:

"Graeme" wrote in message ...

"adder" wrote in message
.com...

"Graeme" wrote in message

I'm just aiming for a perfectly flat floor. Without some sort of
filler/levelling compound, the ply will show the undulations that are in


the

existing chipboard.


Here's what you do - get a circular saw, cut around the perimeter of
the bathroom floor, buy some WBP ply same thickness as the chip, cut
it to size and install in the hole you created. Job done.


A cunning plan!
Let me think about that one.




exactly. as you said initially you were advised to replace the floor.
The other bodges mentioned in this thread are recipes for trouble.

Expanding foam expands with remarkable force, as I found to my
consternation Sticking it under ply is obviously something the
recommenders have not tried. At least the results would give us all a
laugh


The theory was to leave holes where it could expand upwards, and screw
the ply down firmly first. Its there to support the ply agains flexing,
not to attach it. I have in fact used it so infill gaps between a
flexible meter box and a 12mm plasterboard wall. It did not distort - it
simply oozed out of every orifice, after which it was cut back with a
plaster saw.

Easy peasy, and now that box is rigid, not flexible, and toatlly sealed
agains moistire ingress.



Tiles onto 6mm ply... come on be serious. Tiles need a _very_ rigid
surface. The thicker the wood flooring you use the better. I would
choose at a minimum 1". Grout between tiling edge and walls should be
silicone. If you want a perfect job I'd pack the top of any joists
that sag below the others.


Thats what the foam is for: To make a composite stressed skin structure.
One of the most rigid possible.


Any kind of cement type filler used in the thinness suggested is going
to disintegrate. 6mm ply offers no rigidity or support.



That's why you use foam.

If the chip
floor's uneven the odds are its liable to move as well.


Total no sequitur.

That whole
ideas a total mess.


Hmm. I suspect your knowledge of engineering structures is the real mess.


Regards, NT


  #18   Report Post  
N. Thornton
 
Posts: n/a
Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

The Natural Philosopher wrote in message ...
N. Thornton wrote:
"Graeme" wrote in message ...
"adder" wrote in message
.com...


I'm just aiming for a perfectly flat floor. Without some sort of
filler/levelling compound, the ply will show the undulations that are in
the existing chipboard.


Here's what you do - get a circular saw, cut around the perimeter of
the bathroom floor, buy some WBP ply same thickness as the chip, cut
it to size and install in the hole you created. Job done.

A cunning plan!
Let me think about that one.



exactly. as you said initially you were advised to replace the floor.
The other bodges mentioned in this thread are recipes for trouble.

Expanding foam expands with remarkable force, as I found to my
consternation Sticking it under ply is obviously something the
recommenders have not tried. At least the results would give us all a
laugh


The theory was to leave holes where it could expand upwards, and screw
the ply down firmly first. Its there to support the ply agains flexing,
not to attach it. I have in fact used it so infill gaps between a
flexible meter box and a 12mm plasterboard wall. It did not distort - it
simply oozed out of every orifice, after which it was cut back with a
plaster saw.

Easy peasy, and now that box is rigid, not flexible, and toatlly sealed
agains moistire ingress.


Very different to my own experience. That foam was free to ooze out
too: but it set then expanded, rather than expanded then set. And with
remarkable force!


As for the rest... I assumed the OP meant tiles, not vinyl. Evidently
not though. I wouldnt have any worries about putting vinyl onto a
flexible floor, but real tiles dont work on even slightly bendy
structures.


Regards, NT
  #19   Report Post  
Graeme
 
Posts: n/a
Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

As for the rest... I assumed the OP meant tiles, not vinyl. Evidently
not though. I wouldnt have any worries about putting vinyl onto a
flexible floor, but real tiles dont work on even slightly bendy
structures.


From my original posting; "I'm going to level an old chipboard bathroom
floor prior to fitting vinyl
tiles."

Thanks for all of your comments. This has got to be one of the best groups
that I subscribe to, and it hasn't been infested with those damn trolls yet.


  #20   Report Post  
The Natural Philosopher
 
Posts: n/a
Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

N. Thornton wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote in message ...

N. Thornton wrote:

"Graeme" wrote in message ...

"adder" wrote in message
le.com...



I'm just aiming for a perfectly flat floor. Without some sort of
filler/levelling compound, the ply will show the undulations that are in

the existing chipboard.


Here's what you do - get a circular saw, cut around the perimeter of
the bathroom floor, buy some WBP ply same thickness as the chip, cut
it to size and install in the hole you created. Job done.

A cunning plan!
Let me think about that one.


exactly. as you said initially you were advised to replace the floor.
The other bodges mentioned in this thread are recipes for trouble.

Expanding foam expands with remarkable force, as I found to my
consternation Sticking it under ply is obviously something the
recommenders have not tried. At least the results would give us all a
laugh


The theory was to leave holes where it could expand upwards, and screw
the ply down firmly first. Its there to support the ply agains flexing,
not to attach it. I have in fact used it so infill gaps between a
flexible meter box and a 12mm plasterboard wall. It did not distort - it
simply oozed out of every orifice, after which it was cut back with a
plaster saw.

Easy peasy, and now that box is rigid, not flexible, and toatlly sealed
agains moistire ingress.



Very different to my own experience. That foam was free to ooze out
too: but it set then expanded, rather than expanded then set. And with
remarkable force!


As for the rest... I assumed the OP meant tiles, not vinyl. Evidently
not though. I wouldnt have any worries about putting vinyl onto a
flexible floor, but real tiles dont work on even slightly bendy
structures.


They do with a thick bed of flexible cement. But it all depends on what
you mean by 'flexible' really...I had a lot come up on a 18mm chipboard
floor that got soaked, with 4mm of cement. I re-layed some bigger ones
on 10mm flexible. OK so far.


Regards, NT




  #21   Report Post  
The Natural Philosopher
 
Posts: n/a
Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

Graeme wrote:

As for the rest... I assumed the OP meant tiles, not vinyl. Evidently
not though. I wouldnt have any worries about putting vinyl onto a
flexible floor, but real tiles dont work on even slightly bendy
structures.



From my original posting; "I'm going to level an old chipboard bathroom
floor prior to fitting vinyl
tiles."

Thanks for all of your comments. This has got to be one of the best groups
that I subscribe to, and it hasn't been infested with those damn trolls yet.


Just the one really...

  #22   Report Post  
N. Thornton
 
Posts: n/a
Default Acrylic or Latex based screed?

"Graeme" wrote in message ...
As for the rest... I assumed the OP meant tiles, not vinyl. Evidently
not though. I wouldnt have any worries about putting vinyl onto a
flexible floor, but real tiles dont work on even slightly bendy
structures.


From my original posting; "I'm going to level an old chipboard bathroom
floor prior to fitting vinyl
tiles."


My complete cockup then Hope it goes/went well.

Regards, NT
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