Hi all,
Hoping to start my self build shortly and the thought of power has
crossed my mind. Have been looking at genertors and obviously these
would do the job but they use 2-3 gallons a day if run constantly,
Average say =A310 per day =3D =A350 per week, would soon add up. I know it
could be started and stopped with each mix but this is more work and
hassle. A thought came to mind. I have several van batteries about that
still hold a decent charge. A 600w invetrter can be had for approx
=A360- =A370. me thinks ah that'l do nicely. However one of the
inverter's destructions says it won't work drills, saws in fact
anythink with a motor as it is a modified sine wave. Has any one tried
it ? Any other ideas from the group. Yes, I could possible tap a
neighbour up but don't want to burn my bridges just yet.

Regards

legin

legin wrote:
Hi all,
Hoping to start my self build shortly and the thought of power has
crossed my mind. Have been looking at genertors and obviously these
would do the job but they use 2-3 gallons a day if run constantly,
Average say £10 per day = £50 per week, would soon add up. I know it
could be started and stopped with each mix but this is more work and
hassle. A thought came to mind. I have several van batteries about that
still hold a decent charge. A 600w invetrter can be had for approx
£60- £70. me thinks ah that'l do nicely. However one of the
inverter's destructions says it won't work drills, saws in fact
anythink with a motor as it is a modified sine wave. Has any one tried
it ? Any other ideas from the group. Yes, I could possible tap a
neighbour up but don't want to burn my bridges just yet.

Regards

legin

trade uses diesel engined mixers for a reason.

noisy, stinky, yes but reliable and in the absence of mains A/C,
cheaper than the alternatives.

'tapping your neighbour up' for mains at less than £10/day cash in hand,
via a leccy meter, may be the best introduction you could give to him*



RT

*unless he's the tax man, best suss him out 1st

legin wrote :
Hoping to start my self build shortly and the thought of power has
crossed my mind. Have been looking at genertors and obviously these
would do the job but they use 2-3 gallons a day if run constantly,
Average say £10 per day = £50 per week, would soon add up. I know it
could be started and stopped with each mix but this is more work and
hassle. A thought came to mind. I have several van batteries about that
still hold a decent charge. A 600w invetrter can be had for approx
£60- £70. me thinks ah that'l do nicely. However one of the
inverter's destructions says it won't work drills, saws in fact
anythink with a motor as it is a modified sine wave. Has any one tried
it ? Any other ideas from the group. Yes, I could possible tap a
neighbour up but don't want to burn my bridges just yet.

I doubt it would work at all and even if it did the batteries would not
last very long. The output is a rounded square wave, not very
acceptable to motors. Also think of all the recharging and heaving of
those batteries about.

The best option would be a borrowed supply from a neighbour, second
best might be a temporary supply from the leccy company, after all you
will need a more permanent supply at some stage. Don't forget you will
propably need an 110v site tranformer, you cannot safely run 240v
around a building site.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

In article .com,
legin wrote:
Hoping to start my self build shortly and the thought of power has
crossed my mind. Have been looking at genertors and obviously these
would do the job but they use 2-3 gallons a day if run constantly,
Average say £10 per day = £50 per week, would soon add up. I know it
could be started and stopped with each mix but this is more work and
hassle. A thought came to mind. I have several van batteries about that
still hold a decent charge. A 600w invetrter can be had for approx
£60- £70. me thinks ah that'l do nicely. However one of the
inverter's destructions says it won't work drills, saws in fact
anythink with a motor as it is a modified sine wave. Has any one tried
it ? Any other ideas from the group. Yes, I could possible tap a
neighbour up but don't want to burn my bridges just yet.

I'd be surprised if charging batteries off the mains, using and invertor,
and the likely costs of replacements bring the costs down anywhere near to
that of even highly taxed petrol.

--
*Dancing is a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 14 Mar 2005 11:49:06 -0800, "legin"
wrote:

Hi all,
Hoping to start my self build shortly and the thought of power has
crossed my mind. Have been looking at genertors and obviously these
would do the job but they use 2-3 gallons a day if run constantly,
Average say £10 per day = £50 per week, would soon add up. I know it
could be started and stopped with each mix but this is more work and
hassle. A thought came to mind. I have several van batteries about that
still hold a decent charge. A 600w invetrter can be had for approx
£60- £70. me thinks ah that'l do nicely. However one of the
inverter's destructions says it won't work drills, saws in fact
anythink with a motor as it is a modified sine wave. Has any one tried
it ? Any other ideas from the group. Yes, I could possible tap a
neighbour up but don't want to burn my bridges just yet.

Regards

legin

I'd look for a diesel generator, and a farmer (or other) that can
supply red diesel. My local famer sells at 25 litres for a fiver, and
he is making on the deal.

Rick

"legin" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,
Hoping to start my self build shortly and the thought of power has
crossed my mind. Have been looking at genertors and obviously these
would do the job but they use 2-3 gallons a day if run constantly,
Average say £10 per day = £50 per week,

How about the mix of cooking oil and 25% white spirit trick. Supposed to be
fine on low tech diesels, but not on the latest car engines.

John wrote:
"legin" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,
Hoping to start my self build shortly and the thought of power has
crossed my mind. Have been looking at genertors and obviously these
would do the job but they use 2-3 gallons a day if run constantly,
Average say £10 per day = £50 per week,

How about the mix of cooking oil and 25% white spirit trick. Supposed to be
fine on low tech diesels, but not on the latest car engines.

'parrenty it's ok if it's got a bosch pump (or a merc) which will run on lard

/burp



RT

Rick wrote:


I'd look for a diesel generator, and a farmer (or other) that can
supply red diesel.

Yes; no legal requirement to pay excise duty unless the fuel is used in
a vehicle on the public roads. A diesel generator set could run on
gas-oil heating fuel, or red diesel sold for construction, agriculture
or boats. An oil supplier would sell it by the drum, but expect a
follow-up visit from HM Customs & Excise to test any diesel vehicles
you're running.

I think you'd need a lot of batteries to run a mixer for a day. I
wouldn't fancy humping round plastic batteries full of lead and
sulphuric acid.

Holly, in France expressed precisely :
The French seem to manage and live to tell the tale, they think us very
odd with our 110V stuff! I do agree with you though, 110v is better if
you have it. But you don't only need the transformer, you need the tools
in 110V versions as well.

Absolutely!

The 110v is very much safer, because it is centre tapped to be only 55v
potential to ground.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

In article .com,
legin wrote:
Hoping to start my self build shortly and the thought of power has
crossed my mind. Have been looking at genertors and obviously these
would do the job but they use 2-3 gallons a day if run constantly,
Average say £10 per day = £50 per week, would soon add up. I know it
could be started and stopped with each mix but this is more work and
hassle. A thought came to mind. I have several van batteries about that
still hold a decent charge. A 600w invetrter can be had for approx
£60- £70. me thinks ah that'l do nicely. However one of the
inverter's destructions says it won't work drills, saws in fact
anythink with a motor as it is a modified sine wave. Has any one tried
it ? Any other ideas from the group. Yes, I could possible tap a
neighbour up but don't want to burn my bridges just yet.

'Car' batteries run flat by an invertor won't last five minutes - let
alone several months? worth of on site work. Cheap invertors - ie a 60-70
quid 600 watt one won't either.

Since you appear not to have mains electricity on site, I'd address that
one first - like either getting in the supply early - or buying a decent
secondhand industrial diesel generator which will be eminently saleable
afterwards and can be run on red diesel - ie tax free.

--
*It doesn't take a genius to spot a goat in a flock of sheep *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:18:08 GMT, "Harry Bloomfield"
wrote:

legin wrote :
Hoping to start my self build shortly and the thought of power has
crossed my mind. Have been looking at genertors and obviously these
would do the job but they use 2-3 gallons a day if run constantly,
Average say £10 per day = £50 per week, would soon add up. I know it
could be started and stopped with each mix but this is more work and
hassle. A thought came to mind. I have several van batteries about that
still hold a decent charge. A 600w invetrter can be had for approx
£60- £70. me thinks ah that'l do nicely. However one of the
inverter's destructions says it won't work drills, saws in fact
anythink with a motor as it is a modified sine wave. Has any one tried
it ? Any other ideas from the group. Yes, I could possible tap a
neighbour up but don't want to burn my bridges just yet.

I doubt it would work at all and even if it did the batteries would not
last very long. The output is a rounded square wave, not very
acceptable to motors. Also think of all the recharging and heaving of
those batteries about.

It will *eat* your batteries. Think about it. 600w at 12V = 50A. A
typical vehicle battery is a lot less than 100 Amp hours, and for these
purposes is useless at 50% discharge. So you'll get less than an hours
use per battery, taking it from full to dead. And they don't like
this sort of use, not one little bit. That's what you pay for in
"leisure" batteries.

Also a 600W inverter, while it might turn a 600W tool, will never start
it.

I've used hand power tools off an inverter, driven from a running
engine, without problems in terms of waveform. But you can hear the
engine note change when the tool bites.
--
On-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk

(Waterways World site of the month, April 2001)

Rick wrote:
On 14 Mar 2005 11:49:06 -0800, "legin"
wrote:

Hi all,
Hoping to start my self build shortly and the thought of power has
crossed my mind. Have been looking at genertors and obviously these
would do the job but they use 2-3 gallons a day if run constantly,
Average say £10 per day = £50 per week, would soon add up. I know it
could be started and stopped with each mix but this is more work and
hassle. A thought came to mind. I have several van batteries about
that still hold a decent charge. A 600w invetrter can be had for
approx £60- £70. me thinks ah that'l do nicely. However one of the
inverter's destructions says it won't work drills, saws in fact
anythink with a motor as it is a modified sine wave. Has any one
tried it ? Any other ideas from the group. Yes, I could possible tap
a neighbour up but don't want to burn my bridges just yet.

Regards

legin

I'd look for a diesel generator,

Me too. Failing that a diesel mixer if possible, or if not a petrol
mixer. Th generator will run all the other tools as well as the mixer
though as the job progresses, as long as it's big enough. Don't forget
you might need to run an angle grinder and boil the kettle too :-)

and a farmer (or other) that can
supply red diesel. My local famer sells at 25 litres for a fiver, and
he is making on the deal.

Can't you buy it at the pump? Maybe not in urban areas?? Or as heating
oil? Some boilers (inside ones, Rayburns etc) use kerosene but others
use diesel.
--
Holly, in France
Holiday Home in Dordogne
http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr/

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
. Don't forget you will
propably need an 110v site tranformer, you cannot safely run 240v
around a building site.

The French seem to manage and live to tell the tale, they think us very
odd with our 110V stuff! I do agree with you though, 110v is better if
you have it. But you don't only need the transformer, you need the tools
in 110V versions as well.

--
Holly, in France
Holiday Home in Dordogne
http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr/

legin wrote:

Hi all,
Hoping to start my self build shortly and the thought of power has
crossed my mind. Have been looking at genertors and obviously these
would do the job but they use 2-3 gallons a day if run constantly,
Average say £10 per day = £50 per week, would soon add up. I know it
could be started and stopped with each mix but this is more work and
hassle. A thought came to mind. I have several van batteries about that
still hold a decent charge. A 600w invetrter can be had for approx
£60- £70. me thinks ah that'l do nicely. However one of the
inverter's destructions says it won't work drills, saws in fact
anythink with a motor as it is a modified sine wave. Has any one tried
it ? Any other ideas from the group. Yes, I could possible tap a
neighbour up but don't want to burn my bridges just yet.

Regards

legin


I am speechless.

First of all get a petrol mixer. For a couple of days

Secondly, get a portakabin and an electrical connection. Fake up a CU
and some external rings even if you have to knock up a cabin to do it.


Building a house without power tools is almost completely braindead.

As soon as possible, get the incoming mains feed and a meter in place -
even if its temporary. You will also need water supply in.

These are no 1 prorities on any site, if only to be able to make a cup
of coffee.

It was somewhere outside Barstow when (Steve
Firth) wrote:

Or simply stop beign such a tightwad, FFS how long are you
intending keeping the project going for?

I think that depends on whether Mike Tucker is talking to him again.


(Generator - but S/H petrol gennies are dirt cheap and diesels are
admittedly expensive, even if you can sell them on later)

Holly, in France wrote:

Can't you buy it at the pump? Maybe not in urban areas?? Or as heating
oil? Some boilers (inside ones, Rayburns etc) use kerosene but others
use diesel.

Most fuel oil suppliers will stock it.... my erstwhile neighbour used to
buy a 40 gallon drum from time to time for refilling hired machines etc.
(otherwise the hire companies have a nice little ruse going where they
charge you for fuel used at DERV prices but refill them with red diesel)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Thanks for enlightening responses. Looks like the inverter is a no-no.
I hadn't planned to lug batteries around. I was going to leave them in
the back of the van. Charge them at home. Park van next to mixer.
Hadn't even given the red diesel a thought. Brilliant idea. Always
fancied a diesel gen set as well! To start with the house build will
be very slow to begin with. I have got so much work piling in that I
don't know when i will be able to get on it. For the next three months
I will probably just get the footings out, trench fill, bit of
drainage, to blues and floor slabs, one course down to allow for
screed, cos I want UFH. Understand the cuppa point of view but the site
is only 1 mile from home and I've got a big flask. Thought about a
portacabin but then thought that maybe a small caravan would be better.
Would have toilet facilities but would probably get messed up real
quick. I have been waiting patiently for years hoping to buy an
adjacent property for other resasons and if this happened then it would
solve all my issues.

Regards

Legin

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 23:31:33 -0000, "Holly, in France"
wrote:

Rick wrote:
On 14 Mar 2005 11:49:06 -0800, "legin"
wrote:

Hi all,
Hoping to start my self build shortly and the thought of power has
crossed my mind. Have been looking at genertors and obviously these
would do the job but they use 2-3 gallons a day if run constantly,
Average say £10 per day = £50 per week, would soon add up. I know it
could be started and stopped with each mix but this is more work and
hassle. A thought came to mind. I have several van batteries about
that still hold a decent charge. A 600w invetrter can be had for
approx £60- £70. me thinks ah that'l do nicely. However one of the
inverter's destructions says it won't work drills, saws in fact
anythink with a motor as it is a modified sine wave. Has any one
tried it ? Any other ideas from the group. Yes, I could possible tap
a neighbour up but don't want to burn my bridges just yet.

Regards

legin

I'd look for a diesel generator,

Me too. Failing that a diesel mixer if possible, or if not a petrol
mixer. Th generator will run all the other tools as well as the mixer
though as the job progresses, as long as it's big enough. Don't forget
you might need to run an angle grinder and boil the kettle too :-)

and a farmer (or other) that can
supply red diesel. My local famer sells at 25 litres for a fiver, and
he is making on the deal.

Can't you buy it at the pump? Maybe not in urban areas?? Or as heating
oil? Some boilers (inside ones, Rayburns etc) use kerosene but others
use diesel.

There are a few places I know that sell Red Diesel, for use in diggers
and the like, but its 40p a litre, so they are making a HUGE profit on
it, which is why I found a friendly farmer.


Beware, if you put this in your car, and get caught, its gonna cost
you a pile of cash, and the "red" can be detected at tiny
concentrations.

Rick

On 14 Mar 2005 22:29:49 -0800, "legin"
wrote:

Thanks for enlightening responses. Looks like the inverter is a no-no.
I hadn't planned to lug batteries around. I was going to leave them in
the back of the van. Charge them at home. Park van next to mixer.
Hadn't even given the red diesel a thought. Brilliant idea. Always
fancied a diesel gen set as well! To start with the house build will
be very slow to begin with. I have got so much work piling in that I
don't know when i will be able to get on it. For the next three months
I will probably just get the footings out, trench fill, bit of
drainage, to blues and floor slabs, one course down to allow for
screed, cos I want UFH. Understand the cuppa point of view but the site
is only 1 mile from home and I've got a big flask. Thought about a
portacabin but then thought that maybe a small caravan would be better.
Would have toilet facilities but would probably get messed up real
quick. I have been waiting patiently for years hoping to buy an
adjacent property for other resasons and if this happened then it would
solve all my issues.

Regards

Legin

A mile of extenion leads from B&Q is only gonna cost you a a couple of
hundred quid, not that I would do this.

I get the fealing we are about to find out why this is a bad idea.

As somebody else said, get your site sorted. I am DIY building, and I
have 2 approaches to all tools.
1) buy cheep junk - cause I only want it once
2) buy the best
There is no point in having a cheep drill, you will burn it out, and
loose a days work.

Rick

A mile of extenion leads from B&Q is only gonna cost you a a couple of
hundred quid, not that I would do this.

I get the fealing we are about to find out why this is a bad idea.

Since there is an appreciable voltage drop over 25m of 6mm^2 cable, I
suspect 1610m of 2.5mm^2 flex might just leave enough to power a torch bulb.

If it was a very small one.

And you didn't need much light.

Jethro wrote:

A mile of extenion leads from B&Q is only gonna cost you a a couple of
hundred quid, not that I would do this.

I get the fealing we are about to find out why this is a bad idea.


Since there is an appreciable voltage drop over 25m of 6mm^2 cable, I
suspect 1610m of 2.5mm^2 flex might just leave enough to power a torch bulb.

If it was a very small one.

And you didn't need much light.




Not quite that bad.

But the answer is somple, Get water and electricity laid in to a
temporarary structure as no 1 priority.

John wrote:
"legin" wrote...
Hi all,
Hoping to start my self build shortly and the thought of power has
crossed my mind. Have been looking at genertors and obviously these
would do the job but they use 2-3 gallons a day if run constantly,
Average say £10 per day = £50 per week,

How about the mix of cooking oil and 25% white spirit trick. Supposed to be
fine on low tech diesels, but not on the latest car engines.

Just use central heating fuel. Why faff about?

The 110v is very much safer, because it is centre tapped to be only
55v
potential to ground.

Holly is right, it may be safer but the UK is the only country in
Europe to use 110 volt.

PITA!

Dave

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Not quite that bad.

Not far off though - you'd have about 22 ohms series resistance...

--
Andy

In article ,
Jethro wrote:
A mile of extenion leads from B&Q is only gonna cost you a a couple of
hundred quid, not that I would do this.

I get the fealing we are about to find out why this is a bad idea.

Since there is an appreciable voltage drop over 25m of 6mm^2 cable, I
suspect 1610m of 2.5mm^2 flex might just leave enough to power a torch bulb.

If it was a very small one.

And you didn't need much light.

And I'd be very surprised if B&Q sold 2.5mm extension leads.

--
*Women who seek to be equal to men lack ambition.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Magician" wrote:

The 110v is very much safer, because it is centre tapped to be only
55v
potential to ground.

Holly is right, it may be safer but the UK is the only country in
Europe to use 110 volt.

You sure on that? The 110v plugs are a Cenelec standard.


--

legin wrote:
... Understand the cuppa point of view but the site
is only 1 mile from home and I've got a big flask. Thought about a
portacabin but then thought that maybe a small caravan would be better.
Would have toilet facilities but would probably get messed up real
quick.

Unless you are doing absolutely *all* the work yourself (and possibly
even then), as soon as you bring a subbie on site for anything your site
becomes a workplace and you have to have adequate arrangements for water
(not just for drinking, but for washing cement off tools and out of eyes
- health and safety), toilets, changing and storing PPE, and refreshment
breaks. Your construction site insurance is likely to insist on all this
even if your subbies don't.

Caravans are notoriously insecure. You can get 20' or 40' shipping
containers fitted out as site office / mess hut one end, tool store with
porta-loo compartment the other end, and porta-loos on hire where the
'honey truck' comes round once a week and does and empty-and-disinfect
for you.

The other aspect sf if you can plan your construction to accommodate
services and storage from the outset. Quite a common arrangement is to
build the garage first and bring the power and water into that, it
avoids the expense of temporary supplies whilst providing some storage
early on in the build.

Owain

No Spam wrote:
"Magician" wrote:

The 110v is very much safer, because it is centre tapped to be
only 55v
potential to ground.

Holly is right, it may be safer but the UK is the only country in
Europe to use 110 volt.

You sure on that? The 110v plugs are a Cenelec standard.

I'm sure that 110V is not widely used in France, not in this area
anyway. No idea about the rest of Europe.

--
Holly, in France
Holiday Home in Dordogne
http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr/