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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

Removing A Radiator



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 26th 05, 09:34 AM
Nigel Heather
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Removing A Radiator

Firstly, most sorry if this has appeared twice. I sent it yesterday, its in
my 'Sent Items' sent to the right place but I cannot see it in the newsgroup
so I am resubmitting.



I have a ground floor radiator that I want to permanently remove and make
good the wall as if it were never there.

I have a modern house so the raditor its attached to a dry cavity wall and
uses 10mm microbore pipes.

I currently considering whether to do the work myself or just pay a plumber
so I recently got a quote and it is this that has raised the questions.

The plumber said two things that seem to contradict each other.

(i) As the radiator in question has a drain valve he said that he could
remove the radiator and then seal the feed and return by just draining that
radiator rather than the whole system.

(ii) The quote includes quite a hefty amount for rust inhibitor.

What I don't understand is

(a) How can you remove a radiator without draining the whole system. Surely
as soon as the feed and return are disconnected water is going to gush from
them especially as this is a ground floor radiator.

(b) If he only needs to drain the radiator itself why do I need all the rust
inhibtor (given the system already has this).

Can anyone shed any light on this - is he telling porkies one way or
another.

Cheers,

Nigel


Ads
  #2  
Old February 26th 05, 11:04 AM
Lobster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Nigel Heather wrote:

I have a ground floor radiator that I want to permanently remove and make
good the wall as if it were never there.

I have a modern house so the raditor its attached to a dry cavity wall and
uses 10mm microbore pipes.

I currently considering whether to do the work myself or just pay a plumber
so I recently got a quote and it is this that has raised the questions.

The plumber said two things that seem to contradict each other.

(i) As the radiator in question has a drain valve he said that he could
remove the radiator and then seal the feed and return by just draining that
radiator rather than the whole system.

(ii) The quote includes quite a hefty amount for rust inhibitor.

What I don't understand is

(a) How can you remove a radiator without draining the whole system. Surely
as soon as the feed and return are disconnected water is going to gush from
them especially as this is a ground floor radiator.


Not quite - he'll shut off the supply and return valves at the ends of
the radiator, then remove the radiator, at which point the radiator
contents need collecting in a bowl or something. That leaves the two
radiator tails still sticking up through the floor, which need removing.
That can be done by using a pipe-freezing kit like
http://tinyurl.com/3nhjl, then removing the valves, cutting off the
tails and capping them off below the floor.

Given that it's microbore, he might even do a bit of a bodge and just
squash the piping to block it, rather than freezing the pipes.

(b) If he only needs to drain the radiator itself why do I need all the rust
inhibtor (given the system already has this).


Can anyone shed any light on this - is he telling porkies one way or
another.


If he was replacing the radiator, the existing inhibitor would be
diluted by a proportion equivalent to the volume of the radiator and in
theory, would need topping up. But he's 'forgotten' he's not replacing
the rad, so no more inhibitor is needed. He won't have forgotten the
nice mark-up he will make on the inhibitor though. What was the quote
for that? (Presumably you did tell him you already have inhibitor in?).

Avoiding having to replace the inhibitor is the main benefit of not
draining down the whole system, I would have thought!

He might tell you that you should put new inhibitor in every X years,
and while he's there... but if so, he should flush out the old first!

David
  #3  
Old February 26th 05, 01:35 PM
Nigel Heather
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks for the feedback.

Crimping or freezing the microbore was the only way I could see it possibly
working but even then doesn't seem practical.

The pipes come out of the wall, not the floor. He would have to remove a
lot plasterboard to reveal sufficient pipe to freeze or crimp before the
capping point (and that will leave me with a big decourating job). Also I
assume he would have to freeze it a long way back to stop it from melting
when he solders the end cap on.

As for prices:

130 total
100 labour
30 for inhibitor, end caps and solder
(note that this does not include anything to make good the wall afterwards)

I appreciate he's got to make a living but it's a lot more than I was
expecting - if he'd said 80 he would have got the job but as it is I'm
going to have a go myself.

Cheers,

Nigel


"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Nigel Heather wrote:

I have a ground floor radiator that I want to permanently remove and make
good the wall as if it were never there.

I have a modern house so the raditor its attached to a dry cavity wall
and
uses 10mm microbore pipes.

I currently considering whether to do the work myself or just pay a
plumber
so I recently got a quote and it is this that has raised the questions.

The plumber said two things that seem to contradict each other.

(i) As the radiator in question has a drain valve he said that he could
remove the radiator and then seal the feed and return by just draining
that
radiator rather than the whole system.

(ii) The quote includes quite a hefty amount for rust inhibitor.

What I don't understand is

(a) How can you remove a radiator without draining the whole system.
Surely
as soon as the feed and return are disconnected water is going to gush
from
them especially as this is a ground floor radiator.


Not quite - he'll shut off the supply and return valves at the ends of the
radiator, then remove the radiator, at which point the radiator contents
need collecting in a bowl or something. That leaves the two radiator
tails still sticking up through the floor, which need removing. That can
be done by using a pipe-freezing kit like http://tinyurl.com/3nhjl, then
removing the valves, cutting off the tails and capping them off below the
floor.

Given that it's microbore, he might even do a bit of a bodge and just
squash the piping to block it, rather than freezing the pipes.

(b) If he only needs to drain the radiator itself why do I need all the
rust
inhibtor (given the system already has this).


Can anyone shed any light on this - is he telling porkies one way or
another.


If he was replacing the radiator, the existing inhibitor would be diluted
by a proportion equivalent to the volume of the radiator and in theory,
would need topping up. But he's 'forgotten' he's not replacing the rad,
so no more inhibitor is needed. He won't have forgotten the nice mark-up
he will make on the inhibitor though. What was the quote for that?
(Presumably you did tell him you already have inhibitor in?).

Avoiding having to replace the inhibitor is the main benefit of not
draining down the whole system, I would have thought!

He might tell you that you should put new inhibitor in every X years, and
while he's there... but if so, he should flush out the old first!

David



  #4  
Old February 26th 05, 01:36 PM
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Nigel Heather wrote:
Firstly, most sorry if this has appeared twice. I sent it yesterday,

its in
my 'Sent Items' sent to the right place but I cannot see it in the

newsgroup
so I am resubmitting.



I have a ground floor radiator that I want to permanently remove and

make
good the wall as if it were never there.

I have a modern house so the raditor its attached to a dry cavity

wall and
uses 10mm microbore pipes.

I currently considering whether to do the work myself or just pay a

plumber
so I recently got a quote and it is this that has raised the

questions.

The plumber said two things that seem to contradict each other.

(i) As the radiator in question has a drain valve he said that he

could
remove the radiator and then seal the feed and return by just

draining that
radiator rather than the whole system.

(ii) The quote includes quite a hefty amount for rust inhibitor.

What I don't understand is

(a) How can you remove a radiator without draining the whole system.

Surely
as soon as the feed and return are disconnected water is going to

gush from
them especially as this is a ground floor radiator.

(b) If he only needs to drain the radiator itself why do I need all

the rust
inhibtor (given the system already has this).

Can anyone shed any light on this - is he telling porkies one way or
another.

Cheers,
=20
Nigel


CH rust inhibitor is =A33-4 from screwfix.com

NT

  #5  
Old February 26th 05, 03:31 PM
Lobster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Nigel Heather wrote:
Thanks for the feedback.

Crimping or freezing the microbore was the only way I could see it possibly
working but even then doesn't seem practical.

The pipes come out of the wall, not the floor. He would have to remove a
lot plasterboard to reveal sufficient pipe to freeze or crimp before the
capping point (and that will leave me with a big decourating job). Also I
assume he would have to freeze it a long way back to stop it from melting
when he solders the end cap on.


OK, is this on a stud partition (plasterboard/timber) or a dry-lined
solid (brick/stone) wall? If the former, you might be able to cap off
the the pipes and poke them back into the partition, to avoid damaging
the wall surface.

Where do the pipes go next? Presumably either downwards and then below
the floorboards, or upwards and under the upstairs floorboards? Either
way your best bet would be to lift floorboards in either location, and
isolate the pipes the that also avoids leaving live 'wet' pipes with
the stud partition.

If you're going to diy it (and it's not a difficult job)... if you've
never done anything like this before, don't even think about trying the
pipe freezing trick: it adds a whole new element to the game! Just drain
it down as need be and refil afterwards.

You can do this without soldering if you don't want to: you can buy 10mm
compression-fitting stop-ends.

David
  #6  
Old February 26th 05, 03:36 PM
John Stumbles
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:
Nigel Heather wrote:


CH rust inhibitor is 3-4 from screwfix.com


Or c. 12 if you want some that works :-)
  #7  
Old February 26th 05, 03:51 PM
John Stumbles
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Nigel Heather wrote:
Thanks for the feedback.

Crimping or freezing the microbore was the only way I could see it possibly
working but even then doesn't seem practical.

The pipes come out of the wall, not the floor. He would have to remove a
lot plasterboard to reveal sufficient pipe to freeze or crimp before the
capping point (and that will leave me with a big decourating job). Also I
assume he would have to freeze it a long way back to stop it from melting
when he solders the end cap on.

As for prices:

130 total
100 labour


If I were giving you a fixed price quote I probably would put it at 100
or so to allow a bit of insurance for myself against the gotchas that
can occur on a job. It _should_ be a matter of carrot-&-spudding the
header tank (or letting off the pressure on a sealed system) and
draining enough water out of the pipework to solder on end caps (after
draining & removing the rad itself, natch) then pushing the capped ends
back into the plasterboard & patching up. It _could_ end up needing to
drain the whole system to get the pipework dry enough to solder up, and
then it could be a pig with airlocks/crud inthe system to get to fill up
again. I normally do small jobs like this on a price-per-hour basis
which means the cost to the client would be less if everything goes to
plan, but if problems occur due to no fault of my own I don't lose out.
How do you pay for your dental treatment, car repairs etc? :-)

30 for inhibitor, end caps and solder
(note that this does not include anything to make good the wall afterwards)


Bit steep on materials: I usually charge 15 for inhibitor which allows
me a few quid up on what I pay for it. As others have pointed out
inhibitor might not be required.
End caps & solder would be peanuts (5 in bill terms :-)

I appreciate he's got to make a living but it's a lot more than I was
expecting - if he'd said 80 he would have got the job but as it is I'm
going to have a go myself.


Welcome to uk.d-i-y :-)
  #8  
Old February 26th 05, 04:38 PM
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Nigel Heather wrote:

as it is I'm
going to have a go myself.


Good. Make sure youve got a camera to hand - well, just in case, ya
never know Seriously, the solution to cockups is fairly simple: know
they occasionally happen, and just regard them as one more job to do if
they do.

Removing a rad isnt hard really. Ahem, I havent done it myself, but...
its what they say

I mean, what can go wrong? (grinning & thinking of the FAQ self
uninstalling water heater...)

I missed the best photo opportunity one time. An outside drain was
flooded near where I live, and for some mysterious reason there was a
bog seat lying amid the flooding, with a note taped to it saying 'out
of order'.


NT

  #9  
Old February 26th 05, 10:27 PM
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

John Stumbles wrote:
bigcat wrote:
Nigel Heather wrote:


CH rust inhibitor is =A33-4 from screwfix.com


Or c. =A312 if you want some that works :-)


Oh .. rats :-/

BTW, When's the next uk.d-i-y M3 corridor drinkup ?=20

Cheers

Paul.

  #10  
Old February 27th 05, 11:09 PM
John Stumbles
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:
John Stumbles wrote:

bigcat wrote:

Nigel Heather wrote:


CH rust inhibitor is 3-4 from screwfix.com


Or c. 12 if you want some that works :-)



Oh .. rats :-/

BTW, When's the next uk.d-i-y M3 corridor drinkup ?


M3 - wheressat? ;-)

BTW if anyone's in Rdg on the 2nd wednesday of a month they might find
me at the Back of Beyond with this lot
http://sclug.org.uk/. Maybe we
could have an interesting cross-fertilisation meeting (given that most
of the uk.d-i-y pubbers seem to be geeks, though I'm not sure the
reverse is true :-)
 




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