A DIY & home improvement forum. DIYbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » DIYbanter forum » Do - it - Yourself » UK diy
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

What bore is alkathene pipe?



 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old February 19th 05, 09:44 PM
Dave
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What bore is alkathene pipe?

My rising main is black alkathene (I think), the outside diameter is
close to 21.5mm - how can I find out what the bore is without removing
the fittings?

--
Dave S
(The return email address is a dummy)
Ads
  #2  
Old February 19th 05, 11:03 PM
Bob Minchin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Dave wrote in message ...
My rising main is black alkathene (I think), the outside diameter is
close to 21.5mm - how can I find out what the bore is without removing
the fittings?

--
Dave S
(The return email address is a dummy)


Hi Dave,

The only bit of alkathene (or MDPE), I have laying around here is the blue
stuff. It is 20mm OD and 15mm bore.
I'm not sure if alkathene was in use in the days of imperial plumbing, if so
maybe yours could be imperial size hence the different OD.
If I had to guess I'd expect imperial plastic pipe to have had the same bore
as the iron pipes that it would have replaced.
I've just mesured a piece of 1/2" iron pipe and this is 21.5mm OD and
15.25mm bore. maybe your black pipe is similar bore?

Hope this helps

Bob


  #3  
Old February 19th 05, 11:54 PM
Steven Briggs
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In message , Dave
writes
My rising main is black alkathene (I think), the outside diameter is
close to 21.5mm - how can I find out what the bore is without removing
the fittings?

Well if you'd asked yesterday....
Just this morning I put a new stop tap onto a the end of an c. 1970
alkathene pipe. As in a previous thread, I'd measured the pipe (with a
vernier) in situ at 22.0, but when I cut the end off this morning, a
22mm olive was a loose fit, so it was probably 21.5mm. Wall thickness
was about 3mm.
I might be able to find the off cut of the scrap pile tomorrow if you
need more accurate than that. I successfully re-used the copper insert
that was in the end of the pipe.

--
steve
  #4  
Old February 20th 05, 12:23 AM
Dave
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bob Minchin wrote:
Dave wrote in message ...

My rising main is black alkathene (I think), the outside diameter is
close to 21.5mm - how can I find out what the bore is without removing
the fittings?

--
Dave S
(The return email address is a dummy)



Hi Dave,

The only bit of alkathene (or MDPE), I have laying around here is the blue
stuff. It is 20mm OD and 15mm bore.
I'm not sure if alkathene was in use in the days of imperial plumbing, if so
maybe yours could be imperial size hence the different OD.
If I had to guess I'd expect imperial plastic pipe to have had the same bore
as the iron pipes that it would have replaced.
I've just mesured a piece of 1/2" iron pipe and this is 21.5mm OD and
15.25mm bore. maybe your black pipe is similar bore?

Hope this helps

Bob


Thanks Bob. I'm about to replace the internal cold "main" with 22mm and
was wondering whether it was worth replacing the present
alkathene_to_15mm coupling; I think I'll leave it and just go from 15 to
22mm.

--
Dave S
(The return email address is a dummy)
  #5  
Old February 20th 05, 12:25 AM
Dave
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Steven Briggs wrote:
In message , Dave
writes

My rising main is black alkathene (I think), the outside diameter is
close to 21.5mm - how can I find out what the bore is without removing
the fittings?

Well if you'd asked yesterday....
Just this morning I put a new stop tap onto a the end of an c. 1970
alkathene pipe. As in a previous thread, I'd measured the pipe (with a
vernier) in situ at 22.0, but when I cut the end off this morning, a
22mm olive was a loose fit, so it was probably 21.5mm. Wall thickness
was about 3mm.
I might be able to find the off cut of the scrap pile tomorrow if you
need more accurate than that. I successfully re-used the copper insert
that was in the end of the pipe.

Thanks Steven, that ties-up with BobM's info.

--
Dave S
(The return email address is a dummy)
  #6  
Old February 20th 05, 12:42 AM
Simon Stroud
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Dave" wrote in message
...
My rising main is black alkathene (I think), the outside diameter is
close to 21.5mm - how can I find out what the bore is without removing
the fittings?

--
Dave S
(The return email address is a dummy)

Hi,

I have an extremely similar rising main to this. Black plastic, very close
to 21.5mm diameter.

If it's the same as mine then it's what they used to call "half inch" which
presumably must relate to the INSIDE diameter. I had a long but in the end
embarrasing heated discussion about this with the chap in the local Plumb
Center (sic) and in the end it turned out that he did in fact know what he
was talking about.

I wanted to replace the old stopcock (rather restrictive one with 15mm
copper out) with a 22mm one.

I used a "Talbot" brand push fit coupler, available from Plumb Centre. One
of the ones they do is a "reducer" adaptor which takes the following:

At one end:

Modern blue plastic 20mm (O/D) pipe OR old fashioned black "1/2 inch"
plastic pipe (they supply the correct hard plastic ring and O ring to suit
one or the other of these.

At the other end:

Modern blue plastic 25mm pipe OR probably some old fashined imperial of a
similar size.

You can see info on the Talbot range at
http://www.tycowaterworks.com/talbot/index.php

I see they appear to have been taken over by Tyco now.

I've used this to convert from the black "1/2 inch" to 25mm blue plastic
(only a few inches of this). And then I've put a big stopcock on the end of
this (again a Talbot pushfit part) and that has a 22mm copper output. Then
all my new mains pipework to the big combi boiler, showers, etc. etc is done
in 22mm copper.

It made a big difference to the flowrate compared to the old rubbish 1/2" to
50mm stopcock and all 15mm internal mains pipework.

The icing on the cake would be to replace the black plastic with modern 25mm
blue plastic all the way from the main, but that's a project for another
year.

Regards,
Simon.


  #7  
Old February 20th 05, 12:52 AM
Doctor Evil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Dave" wrote in message
...

My rising main is black alkathene (I think), the outside diameter is
close to 21.5mm - how can I find out what the bore is without removing
the fittings?


Sounds like LDPE (black) rather than the current metric MDPE (blue) Two main
types were used: Class C and Class D. Class C has a thinner wall than class
D. You may find the type printed on the pipe.

In both 1/2" and 3/4" pipe, internal and external diameters differ.

BES (www.bes.ltd.uk) sell fittings to convert from Class C 1/2" to black or
blue MDPE.

In your case the bore will be 1/2" (15mm). A standard 22mm compression
joint will go over the pipe, as long as you still use the existing pipe
insert. Wrap PTFE tape around the olive before tightening. If replacing a
stop cock use a 2mm compression full-bore valve.



_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account
  #8  
Old February 20th 05, 01:19 AM
Doctor Evil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Dave" wrote in message
...

My rising main is black alkathene (I think), the outside diameter is
close to 21.5mm - how can I find out what the bore is without removing
the fittings?


Sounds like LDPE (black) rather than the current metric MDPE (blue) Two

main
types were used: Class C and Class D. Class C has a thinner wall than

class
D. You may find the type printed on the pipe.

In both 1/2" and 3/4" pipe, internal and external diameters differ.

BES (www.bes.ltd.uk) sell fittings to convert from Class C 1/2" to black

or
blue MDPE.

In your case the bore will be 1/2" (15mm). A standard 22mm compression
joint will go over the pipe, as long as you still use the existing pipe
insert. Wrap PTFE tape around the olive before tightening. If replacing

a
stop cock use a 22mm compression full-bore valve.


I left out. Use the existing olive on the black pipe, as that will be old
imperial 3/4". This can be used inside a 22mm compression fitting on LDPE
pipe.




_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account
  #9  
Old February 23rd 05, 01:41 PM
Dave
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Doctor Evil wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
...


My rising main is black alkathene (I think), the outside diameter is
close to 21.5mm - how can I find out what the bore is without removing
the fittings?



Sounds like LDPE (black) rather than the current metric MDPE (blue) Two main
types were used: Class C and Class D. Class C has a thinner wall than class
D. You may find the type printed on the pipe.

In both 1/2" and 3/4" pipe, internal and external diameters differ.

BES (www.bes.ltd.uk) sell fittings to convert from Class C 1/2" to black or
blue MDPE.

In your case the bore will be 1/2" (15mm). A standard 22mm compression
joint will go over the pipe, as long as you still use the existing pipe
insert. Wrap PTFE tape around the olive before tightening. If replacing a
stop cock use a 2mm compression full-bore valve.


Thanks (and to SimonS). If the bore of the main (about 15m to the
external stopcock) is only 1/2" it seems that there's no advantage
changing the fitting at the house end(?) Currently there's a compression
fitting to a short length (20cm) of 15mm and then into the house
stopcock, I'll just replace the 15mm stopcock with a full bore 22mm
lever valve and run 22mm thereafter - unless someone tells me otherwise.

To estimate the impact of changing pipe bores I'm planning on using an
ohm's law analogy and "series resistance". Can I just say that the
relative "resistance" caused by 22mm and 15mm pipe is directly related
to XSA (a factor of approx 2) of are the surface effects significant?
It's a long time since I did any fluid mechanics, any Bernoulli experts
out there? ;-)

--
Dave S
(The return email address is a dummy)
  #10  
Old February 23rd 05, 08:11 PM
Andy Wade
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dave wrote:

To estimate the impact of changing pipe bores I'm planning on using an
ohm's law analogy and "series resistance". Can I just say that the
relative "resistance" caused by 22mm and 15mm pipe is directly related
to XSA (a factor of approx 2) of are the surface effects significant?
It's a long time since I did any fluid mechanics, any Bernoulli experts
out there? ;-)


IANA fluid dynamicist but ohms law for pipes is a bit different to the
electrical one. For a given 'resistance' (pipe type, size & length)
flow is proportional to the square root of the pressure drop, or 'head
loss' as it tends to be known. Or, put the other way round, head loss
is proportional to the square of the required flow rate. For a given
head loss per unit pipe length, flow seems to be roughly proportional to
pipe area.

http://www.ukcopperboard.co.uk/downl...-%20basics.pdf
has a pipe sizing chart (nomogram) which you might find useful.

--
Andy
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Alkathene pipe & stop tap question. Steven Briggs UK diy 4 February 20th 05 12:18 AM
Water pipe bore and depth Quigs UK diy 3 June 1st 04 11:40 PM
Joining Plastic Waste pipe to Lead pipe tinklemagoo UK diy 3 February 19th 04 06:34 AM
plastic air pipe CampinGazz Woodworking 8 February 9th 04 12:24 PM
Replacing old steel water main supply pipe Pandora UK diy 3 January 24th 04 09:53 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.SEO by vBSEO ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2004-2014 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.